Vaccinated people are less likely to spread Covid, new research finds

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3 hours ago, Salerno said:

Before anyone can answer that truthfully more data is required ... is the pub selling alcohol?

More importantly, is transam preferred drink wine? f so, his claims are irrefutable.   After all, in vino veritas which translates to "in winos there is truth".

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1 minute ago, GrandPapillon said:

I think you need to understand semantics first, obviously your definition of "stop" is not the same as mine ????

 

stop doesn't mean reduce, but maybe you speak a different language ????

 

for example: stop water from running doesn't mean water is still running ????

 

got it? comprende? ????

 

Before you move on to semantics. you've got first to master basic reading comprehension. So what do you think ozimoron's second part of his comment meant? Ya know, this one: That it's not 100% effective doesn't mean that it's not effective.

[Jeffr2]

11 hours ago, GrandPapillon said:

the point it answers both sides of the arguments, the anti-vax think that reduction is not good enough to warrant being vaccinated, while some pro-vax have this strange idea that the spread stops with vaccination. Both sides are wrong.

An argument typically brought up by covid deniers. Or anti vaxxers.

[GrandPapillon]

Just now, placeholder said:

Before you move on to semantics. you've got first to master basic reading comprehension. So what do you think ozimoron's second part of his comment meant? Ya know, this one: That it's not 100% effective doesn't mean that it's not effective.

that's changing the goal post again in true trolling style ????

 

first he says virus is stopped by the vaccine (when in reality it isn't)

 

then he admits it's not 100% effective (aka it is not stopped) ????

 

he just proved my point, that the vaccine is not 100% effective, what else can I add ????

 

you guys are hilarious with all your silly contradictions ????

[GrandPapillon]

3 minutes ago, Jeffr2 said:

An argument typically brought up by covid deniers. Or anti vaxxers.

and how is that an issue? can't they have the right to express themselves in these difficult times?

[Jeffr2]

7 minutes ago, GrandPapillon said:

and how is that an issue? can't they have the right to express themselves in these difficult times?

No. Because most of what anti vaxxers express is misinformation.

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7 minutes ago, GrandPapillon said:

that's changing the goal post again in true trolling style ????

 

first he says virus is stopped by the vaccine (when in reality it isn't)

 

then he admits it's not 100% effective (aka it is not stopped) ????

 

he just proved my point, that the vaccine is not 100% effective, what else can I add ????

 

you guys are hilarious with all your silly contradictions ????

But  it was his final comment on the issue in that post, and he clariified what he meant. And you simply ignored it. Treated it as though it didn't exist. If your critique was an honest one, you would have noted it as a minor point, given the comment that followed.

[Jeffr2]

25 minutes ago, GrandPapillon said:

that's changing the goal post again in true trolling style ????

 

first he says virus is stopped by the vaccine (when in reality it isn't)

 

then he admits it's not 100% effective (aka it is not stopped) ????

 

he just proved my point, that the vaccine is not 100% effective, what else can I add ????

 

you guys are hilarious with all your silly contradictions ????

Stop trolling. Jeez. Give it a Rest!

[ozimoron]

5 hours ago, GrandPapillon said:

but it doesn't stop it, you can even ask Pfizer about it  ????

 

Really. The vaccine does not prevent infections at all?

 

Do seat belts save lives? Do they stop deaths?

Edited October 4, 2021 by ozimoron

[ozimoron]

4 hours ago, GrandPapillon said:

and how is that an issue? can't they have the right to express themselves in these difficult times?

They can except when they peddle misinformation.

[catturd]

All this, and yet the countries with highest vaccination rates also have the highest (7 day) covid infection rates; refer to Singapore and Indonesia, or many other countries for comparisons. sCleNcE.

https://rotf.lol/covid-7day

https://rotf.lol/vaccine-rate

Edited October 5, 2021 by catturd

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4 minutes ago, catturd said:

All this, and yet the countries with highest vaccination rates also have the highest (7 day) covid infection rates; refer to Singapore and Indonesia, or many other countries for comparisons. sCleNcE.

https://rotf.lol/covid-7day

https://rotf.lol/vaccine-rate

First off, Indonesia certainly does not have one of the highest vaccination rates. As of Oct 3rd, 19.1 percent of its population was fully vaccinated.

https://ourworldindata.org/coronavirus/country/indonesia

 

As for Singapore, its numbers reflect that fact that widescale testing has been mandated for certain sectors of its population. And businesses are strongly encouraged to test and given free test kits to do so.

https://www.straitstimes.com/singapore/health/expanded-testing-health-risk-warnings-and-alerts-among-new-measures-to-control

 

 

[richard_smith237]

21 minutes ago, catturd said:

All this, and yet the countries with highest vaccination rates also have the highest (7 day) covid infection rates; refer to Singapore and Indonesia, or many other countries for comparisons. sCleNcE.

https://rotf.lol/covid-7day

https://rotf.lol/vaccine-rate

Come back after you’ve compared countries with reliable data collection and equivalent population densities. 

 

Then take at hospitalisations and death rates from Covid-19 (I know this article refers to Covid-19 cases, but the true metric is deaths and hospitalisations - as we are likely to be living alongside covid than eradicating it).

Edited October 5, 2021 by richard_smith237

[catturd]

7 minutes ago, richard_smith237 said:

Come back after you’ve compared countries with reliable data collection and equivalent population densities. 

 

Then take at hospitalisations and death rates from Covid-19 (I know this article refers to Covid-19 cases, but the true metric is deaths and hospitalisations - as we are likely to be living alongside covid than eradicating it).

The topic is about covid spread/transmission. Try to keep up.

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1 minute ago, catturd said:

The topic is about covid spread/transmission. Try to keep up.

As for keeping up, can you remind me what you claimed about Indonesia?

[catturd]

SI & IN are bucking trends both for Asia and the world. What more do you need. Oh, btw, survival rates are quite high, >99%  amongst most age groups, but dips to ~ 98% for ederly.

 

sCiEnCe

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5 minutes ago, catturd said:

SI & IN are bucking trends both for Asia and the world. What more do you need. Oh, btw, survival rates are quite high, >99%  amongst most age groups, but dips to ~ 98% for ederly.

 

sCiEnCe

Once again you ignore the fact the different countries have different rates of testing. Naturally those countries that have a higher test rate will detect more cases of covid. You should look up "statistical artefact".

[Phoenix Rising]

On 10/4/2021 at 2:14 AM, WhiteBuffaloATM said:

another nice earner “research” paper from the university of stating the bleeding obvious ! quantifies something already known in principle , like “running makes you tired”

1. What's obvious?

2. When dealing with anti-vaxxers and people who "just need more time to do their own research" stating the bleeding obvious is sometimes required.

Not because they can be enlightened but to make them tone down their anti-vaxx BS.

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2 minutes ago, catturd said:

you said IN has "high vaccination"....not me.

 

44 minutes ago, catturd said:

All this, and yet the countries with highest vaccination rates also have the highest (7 day) covid infection rates; refer to Singapore and Indonesia, or many other countries for comparisons. sCleNcE.

https://rotf.lol/covid-7day

https://rotf.lol/vaccine-rate

Well, what you wrote was not what you meant. "Refer to Singapore vs. Indonesia" is what you ought to have written. That said, you still don't seem to understand that the infection rates reported by various governments are not comparable unless adjusted for testing rates. Once again, look up the term "statistical artefact"

[Live Long and Prosper]

21 hours ago, transam said:

Would you rather get info from a tabloid, or the bloke who knows everything about everything down the pub..?

No need to bring Face Book people in on the act????

[richard_smith237]

5 minutes ago, catturd said:

13 minutes ago, richard_smith237 said:

Come back after you’ve compared countries with reliable data collection and equivalent population densities. 

 

Then take at hospitalisations and death rates from Covid-19 (I know this article refers to Covid-19 cases, but the true metric is deaths and hospitalisations - as we are likely to be living alongside covid than eradicating it).

The topic is about covid spread/transmission. Try to keep up.

 

I’ve had to repost... seems you struggled reading the whole comment... 

 

"I know this article refers to Covid-19 cases, but the true metric is deaths and hospitalisations - as we are likely to be living alongside covid than eradicating it"

 

 

You only want to select singular packets of information and extrapolate the data collected there to stretch an anti-vax point which doesn’t correlated with the vast wealth of information collected else where.

 

There will always be outliers...  20% of the SG population is not vaccinated - thats 1,130,000 people still unvaccinated.

Are 386 daily new Covid-19 cases in the vaccinated or unvaccinated population?

 

You don’t know, but seem to have assumed that that 386 cases come proportionately from the 80% who have been vaccinated to stress your idea that the vaccine does not work. That is flawed thinking. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[WhiteBuffaloATM]

STOP need not be an Absolute in the english language.  

“Stops x % covid spread” is legit language style. Whether factual or not is a separate issue.

big fan of covid absolutism I see but always in vague argumentative terms, without proper justification. looking for or creating the sligntest cracks in “ pro- vaxx” case. 

Defending anti - vaxxers ( or rightly their freedom of speech) by wrongly implying 100% Guarantees and No Risk for covid vax are reasonable expectations. No vax has ever been 100% effective.

The Covid Vax is clearly / absolutely a BRILLIANT human achievement..Saving millions of lives.

 

consider the many thousands of unvaxxed dying in hospitals.

Leaving entire grieving families behind. Children. Sons & Daughters.

When they NEED NOT HAVE DIED. Believing false prophets of doom.

Worse, when certain such hypocritical anti - reason “ prophets” have actually been vaxxed……

malevolent motive then clear ……

UNVAXXED are now around 97% of covid deaths in UK/ USA.  Dissent THAT.

 

Yes, people should not be compelled to vax BUT they must take the consequential societal sanctions; group isolation, home staying, separated from normal society, getting fired, losing reputation,etc. 

 

usual deliberate provoking / agitating /  baiting of reasonable sensible members here.

condescending / patronizing tone when espousing utter nonsense.

repeated use of overused word “ very” is nearly always a tell giveaway of a faker with no real case.

whole demeanor, at first comical, has now become insufferable.

especially in near minority of ONE on this subject.

 

forum ban would normally apply for consistently breaking at least four forum rules.

have raised matter with the Moderators.

have avoided addressing specific member and no use of word YOU here

trying hard not to violate the complex forum rules myself so not banned.. hopefully

no doubt though we ALL know WHO is being referenced here……..

[Rimmer]

Multiple baiting/flames have been removed, you can stop this now or I will step in and stop you.

[WhiteBuffaloATM]

never saw relevance of “cases” or “ infections” in any scenario, except AFTER full adult vax.

it cant be suppressed or contained, its EVERYWHERE so just assume cases & infections are 100%.

then move on to just getting every adult priority vaxxed…… 

only THEN conduct systematic Testing for meaningful Cases & Infections to plot Covid Decline.

multiple testing variables, complexities and differences render USELESS all prior testing / cases / infections extrapolations, projections and comparisons …….

and distract from the Primary metrics of DEATHS and HOSPITAL.

[Chomper Higgot]

14 hours ago, GrandPapillon said:

and again you are missing the point ????

 

the point was that you can't claim something to be absolutely true at any point in time,

 

that's religious belief, not modern science ????

When, after jumping off a tall building you hit the ground very hard, there is absolutely no need to claim Newtonian physics is correct - the proof has been demonstrated.

 

So I’m not missing the point, I’m nailing your fallacy that there is no such thing as an absolute truth in science.

 

 

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Just now, Chomper Higgot said:

When, after jumping off a tall building you hit the ground very hard, there is absolutely no need to claim Newtonian physics is correct - the proof has been demonstrated.

 

So I’m not missing the point, I’m nailing your fallacy that there is no such thing as an absolute truth in science.

 

 

The point being of course, that as science progresses, it's theorems come closer and closer to predicting reality. Grandpapillon earlier cited the age of the earth as a an example of scientific consensus changing. What he didn't note is that it's extremely unlikely that the consensus will oscillate back to estimation of the earth's age as being reckoned in the thousands.

[WhiteBuffaloATM]

“ extremely unlikely” ? too generous by far. its impossible. btw I introduced earth age as a simple example proof…..but to no effect……absolutists and pseudo scientist followers are oblivious to reason……no, its impossible as current age already established with  complete certainty as minimum 4.5 billion years……was then said but science might find its 7 or 9 billion old. just ridiculous baiting.

as also impossible. new tech might maximally move it in range of 4.6 to 4.8 or so but thats gonna be it !