House Build - Guide

[tamsam6]

Looking at the threads, saw one about new house but I cannot find a single document that I can share with the electrical contractor that covers some of the best practices from the threads. Does anyone have such a guide?

 

3 Core wiring 

Real earth Ground rod

RCD breaker at electric box

RCB Outside socket and pool

[WhiteBuffaloATM]

Yes. if you google “thailand electrical standards”, you will find 2nd item is AseanNow Electrical Forum Post from Moderator Crossy which appears Definitive.

[sometimewoodworker]

32 minutes ago, tamsam6 said:

Looking at the threads, saw one about new house but I cannot find a single document that I can share with the electrical contractor that covers some of the best practices from the threads. Does anyone have such a guide?

You didn’t look very hard did you. This has been posted several times and is in the pinned topics in the root of this sub forum 

PEA electrical info GroundwireMk2book-Manual.pdf

[Yellowtail]

Rather than starting off by telling your contractor what to do, why not get a detailed quote that includes a bill of material and go from there? 

[bbko]

 

[Crossy]

 

 

The regulations themselves are way too heavy for a domestic installer, the PEA document included by @sometimewoodworker is far better at pointing your man in the right direction.

 

This is the important diagram with English translations. Wiring it like this will get you past the PEA/MEA inspection for a permanent meter.

 

 

As others have noted your bast way forwards is probably to get a recommended sparks to give you a detailed quote and then tell him what extras you want.

 

 

 

 

[shaemus]

13 hours ago, tamsam6 said:

Looking at the threads, saw one about new house but I cannot find a single document that I can share with the electrical contractor that covers some of the best practices from the threads. Does anyone have such a guide?

I dont think that anyone will have taken the time to make such a guide as most on here aren't qualified electricians. There is certainly some good advice on here and a fair amount opinion not based on standards. 

 

First you need to spec your electrical system. It is designed around its purpose and environment. So its cables, connections and cable management and the equipment it connects to. 

 

The spec will be dictated by your build type. So if you are building a castle from cut stone you may want a certain type if system or if using a concrete shell type with brick/ block infill again a type of install will be required. 

 

Are you wanting to use poured concrete and have conduits inside that? 

 

Do you need a full conduit system? Or will stop start do? 

 

The spec is normally determined by price and site requirements. Also the competancy of the installer. I.e do you want /need a metal conduit system like that @ BKK airport? And if you do can the people you are asking to do it actually do it and if so to what degree of competence. 

 

 

Simply id be asking for all boxes to wall boxes plastered in. Conduits also in walls with suitable adapters from the conduit to the box. 

 

All cabling to be run with an earth for each circuit. Use VAFG cable. 

 

Min size for lighting 1.5mm

 

Min size for sockets 2.5mm.

 

Rcbo (quality brand) for each circuit 

 

Ask for maximum demand calcs and voltage drop calcs

 

Run cat 6 where required separately from power. Use quad shield for coax. 

 

Decides on a brand of accessories and stick with it. Ensure it has the correct requirements for you. I.e 3 way or intermediate switching, 

 

Think about outdoor power requirements. Small light and power.

 

Don you want UG service mains? If so spec the correct cable for the service. Also correct depth and conduit type. HDPE conduit is available from Global

 

Insist connections. Are only made in the designated junction boxes and kept to a minimum and use proper connection terminals. Insist on no soldered joints

 

Insist on a set of standardised and uniform colours are used for cores of cable. I.e euro colours old or new. If you haven't found out already then any colour goes here for anything. 

E.g. Brown black grey for phase, light blue for neutral. Green and yellow for earth. No exceptions. To do this you will have to buy the cable yourself. If doing so buy stranded rather than solid core. 

 

Insist on a set of test results for the installation. 

 

Think about if you want surge protection, arc fault detection devices on your distribution board. They will be expensive here. 

 

Do want solar? 

 

Don you want a genset with a auto changeover switch? If so allow room for the ATS  

 

The UK produces and on site guide which is fairly pictorial but the standards are high but safe. 

 

You could also checkout https://youtube.com/c/SparkyNinja. 

 

Shaemus

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Crossy]

3 hours ago, shaemus said:

arc fault detection devices on your distribution board.

 

220V units are unknown here and for that matter in much of the world.

 

They are just starting to be recommended in the UK and cost £££££££.

https://www.discount-electrical.co.uk/section.php/111481/1/wylex-afdd-rcbos

 

It's also hotly debated whether thay actually have any significant effect.

[Crossy]

If you need something in English, the closest Western requirement is AS/NZ3000.

[sometimewoodworker]

5 hours ago, shaemus said:

Run cat 6 where required separately from power.

Required in data centres, irrelevant in practice in domestic installations, though zip ties to power cable isn’t a great idea.

[shaemus]

3 hours ago, sometimewoodworker said:

Required in data centres, irrelevant in practice in domestic installations, though zip ties to power cable isn’t a great ide

Well you dont use zip ties on data cables for a start. And the OP has asked for guide which doesn't exist. So i am mearly giving my professional opinion as an trained qualified practicing electrician. 

 

The unit cost is higher than cat5e for sure but its the same cost to install and terminate. Only a half wit would install cat 5 or lower on a new build. 

 

Shaemus 

 

 

 

[shaemus]

5 hours ago, Crossy said:

If you need something in English, the closest Western requirement is AS/NZ3000.

I pretty sure the UK onsite guide is in English. A bit cheaper than the Aud300 for as3000. Plus not many pictures in AS3000. 

 

Shaemus 

[Crossy]

7 minutes ago, shaemus said:

I pretty sure the UK onsite guide is in English. A bit cheaper than the Aud300 for as3000. Plus not many pictures in AS3000. 

 

Shaemus 

 

So long as you understand that Thailand doesn't use ring finals and radials are limited to 20A (16A unfused plugs) you'll be fine with BS7671.

 

Oz is very similar to Thailand in those respects, hence the suggestion of As3000, they probably have an equivalent to the Onsite Guide.

 

[shaemus]

5 hours ago, Crossy said:

 

220V units are unknown here and for that matter in much of the world.

 

They are just starting to be recommended in the UK and cost £££££££.

https://www.discount-electrical.co.uk/section.php/111481/1/wylex-afdd-rcbos

 

It's also hotly debated whether thay actually have any significant effect.

Definitely expensive but the Op wants to spec his electrical system, so I posted a few questions to guide him in his research. I dont have arc fault items but spd's yes. 

 

Shaemus 

[Crossy]

6 minutes ago, shaemus said:

I dont have arc fault items but spd's yes. 

 

SPDs. Absolutely!

 

[sometimewoodworker]

1 hour ago, shaemus said:

Well you dont use zip ties on data cables for a start. And the OP has asked for guide which doesn't exist. So i am mearly giving my professional opinion as an trained qualified practicing electrician. 

 

The unit cost is higher than cat5e for sure but its the same cost to install and terminate. Only a half wit would install cat 5 or lower on a new build. 

 

Shaemus 

I wasn’t suggesting that zip ties should be used just making the point that for a domestic install there is no particular point in requiring data cables and power cables to run completely separately.
 

As to the grade of Ethernet cable, I absolutely agree that 5e is a minimum and probably better is an extremely good idea.

[tamsam6]

On 10/12/2021 at 7:12 PM, sometimewoodworker said:

You didn’t look very hard did you. This has been posted several times and is in the pinned topics in the root of this sub forum 

PEA electrical info GroundwireMk2book-Manual.pdf 803.56 kB · 8 downloads

If you read the post, I didn't ask what the Thai recommendations were. I asked if there a guide that "covers some of the best practices from the threads"

I mean it's kind of funny to see your snarky comment about not looking hard when clearly you didn't read the request.

 

 

[tamsam6]

On 10/13/2021 at 6:22 AM, Crossy said:

 

 

The regulations themselves are way too heavy for a domestic installer, the PEA document included by @sometimewoodworker is far better at pointing your man in the right direction.

 

This is the important diagram with English translations. Wiring it like this will get you past the PEA/MEA inspection for a permanent meter.

 

 

 

As others have noted your bast way forwards is probably to get a recommended sparks to give you a detailed quote and then tell him what extras you want.

 

 

 

 

Appreciate this much, Thanks.  I have shared graphics from the pinned post.  What I'm unable to explain to him is the extra "falang" spec components..   Ground wiring, RCD's, etc.  I am not an electrician so i'm trying to gather a "do this and we're good" guide to the house. 

[tamsam6]

On 10/13/2021 at 9:08 AM, shaemus said:

I dont think that anyone will have taken the time to make such a guide as most on here aren't qualified electricians. There is certainly some good advice on here and a fair amount opinion not based on standards. 

 

First you need to spec your electrical system. It is designed around its purpose and environment. So its cables, connections and cable management and the equipment it connects to. 

 

The spec will be dictated by your build type. So if you are building a castle from cut stone you may want a certain type if system or if using a concrete shell type with brick/ block infill again a type of install will be required. 

 

Are you wanting to use poured concrete and have conduits inside that? 

 

Do you need a full conduit system? Or will stop start do? 

 

The spec is normally determined by price and site requirements. Also the competancy of the installer. I.e do you want /need a metal conduit system like that @ BKK airport? And if you do can the people you are asking to do it actually do it and if so to what degree of competence. 

 

 

Simply id be asking for all boxes to wall boxes plastered in. Conduits also in walls with suitable adapters from the conduit to the box. 

 

All cabling to be run with an earth for each circuit. Use VAFG cable. 

 

Min size for lighting 1.5mm

 

Min size for sockets 2.5mm.

 

Rcbo (quality brand) for each circuit 

 

Ask for maximum demand calcs and voltage drop calcs

 

Run cat 6 where required separately from power. Use quad shield for coax. 

 

Decides on a brand of accessories and stick with it. Ensure it has the correct requirements for you. I.e 3 way or intermediate switching, 

 

Think about outdoor power requirements. Small light and power.

 

Don you want UG service mains? If so spec the correct cable for the service. Also correct depth and conduit type. HDPE conduit is available from Global

 

Insist connections. Are only made in the designated junction boxes and kept to a minimum and use proper connection terminals. Insist on no soldered joints

 

Insist on a set of standardised and uniform colours are used for cores of cable. I.e euro colours old or new. If you haven't found out already then any colour goes here for anything. 

E.g. Brown black grey for phase, light blue for neutral. Green and yellow for earth. No exceptions. To do this you will have to buy the cable yourself. If doing so buy stranded rather than solid core. 

 

Insist on a set of test results for the installation. 

 

Think about if you want surge protection, arc fault detection devices on your distribution board. They will be expensive here. 

 

Do want solar? 

 

Don you want a genset with a auto changeover switch? If so allow room for the ATS  

 

The UK produces and on site guide which is fairly pictorial but the standards are high but safe. 

 

You could also checkout https://youtube.com/c/SparkyNinja. 

 

Shaemus

 

 

 

 

 

 

Info!  Thanks Shaemus..  I was able to comprehend some of what you wrote, some of it is way over my head.   May I ask what this means so I can attempt to communicate with the G.C.

 

A few questions

Don you want UG service mains?

What does UG mean?

Insist on a set of standardised and uniform colours are used for cores of cable

This is gold. Thanks

 

Do want solar? 

I'm looking for a panel supplier that can connect in with our system.   Any recommendations?

Don you want a genset with a auto changeover switch? If so allow room for the ATS  

No idea what this means ????

 

Appreciate it much.. Thanks

 

Sam

[sometimewoodworker]

31 minutes ago, tamsam6 said:

If you read the post, I didn't ask what the Thai recommendations were. I asked if there a guide that "covers some of the best practices from the threads"

I mean it's kind of funny to see your snarky comment about not looking hard when clearly you didn't read the request.

 

 

The guide I posted answered your questions and contains the best practices you asked for. If it was not good enough and you had actually already downloaded it from the pinned post in this sub forum then you should have said so and requested more information. 
 

if you can’t be bothered to put in enough detail to get the information you want, why would you expect to get the information you want. 
 

If you are unable to understand the text and unable to read and write then you need to ask a  technical Thai reader and writer to do your searches for you. It is unlikely that a search in English is going to do much good for Thai language results.

 

There is no summary of thread advice since it all relates to different questions. The field of electrical best practices is vast and complex as different installations require different answers, get things wrong and at best you get a shocking surprise, at worst a white box atop some used tyres and firewood if upcountry.

[tamsam6]

I've gotten all the info I needed aside from a few questions above so I'll be able to look up the details of those best practices and ensure the contractor follows those.

 

Thanks all.

[shaemus]

On 10/17/2021 at 9:16 PM, tamsam6 said:

A few questions

Don you want UG service mains?

What does UG mean?

 

UG = underground or burried, for the sake of clarity, in a conduit specifically for that service (low Voltage power) ideally at 600mm depth using cable that is specific for use underground,

Insist on a set of standardised and uniform colours are used for cores of cable

This is gold. Thanks

A bit more info, you can buy quite easily VAFG cable which will be potentially uniform in it core colour if you buy the same brand at the same time. there is plenty of info on cable online, vafg is a 2 core and earth cable, called T&E (twin & earth) in the UK or TPS in Australia (thermoplastic sheathing). you can buy it in various lengths 30, 50 & 100m and ranging up to 16mm though most big hardware stores will sell up to 6mm, mostly the stuff i see is 1.5mm & 2.5mm lighting and power. its not cheap though as copper has gone up alot recently and you are buying a premium type cable as the local market here don't seem to use it. if you can find stranded rather than solid core this is not only easier to install it is less likely to snap. They use solid core in the uk but generally not in Australia. it can still be run in a conduit but obviously the outer sheathing makes it a bit cumbersome. but from my experience you want to have as much protection around you cable as possible as rats and mice quite enjoy the insulation on the cable.

 

 

Do want solar? 

I'm looking for a panel supplier that can connect in with our system.   Any recommendations?

 

There is a whole section on PV solar here. i used to design and install Solar systems in Australia, So in essence no i cant provide a supplier but i can provide a few tips.

 

Research Panels well id look on Aussie forums as there is alot of PV there in the Domestic setting and has been for 10 yrs, Dont be wooed by warranty as you are in Thailand and consumer rights / law isn;t so strong

Build your roof with solar in mind, orientation and size, do you want to generate from just the South facing roof or east west as well , if so that will need to be in your design as you will need more MPPT inputs, There is also a serious limit on Size in Thailand as anything over 10KW needs a few volumes of paperwork.

dont be put of by Stuff from china some of the inverters are pretty good

Don you want a genset with a auto changeover switch? If so allow room for the ATS  

No idea what this means ????

Genset = generating Set, if your power goes of do you want a back up ? An ATS is automatic transfer switch it senses the street power has gone off and starts the Genset and changes over the supply from Street to Genset. this can also be done with Hybrid solar inverters which can do the same if you have battery storage

@tamsam6

[tamsam6]

On 10/20/2021 at 9:04 AM, shaemus said:

@tamsam6

Thank you Shaemus.  Solid information.  I'm going to see about getting these recommendations translated by the translator I use and just hand them to the contractor.  Thanks again!

[Robin]

Could someone suggest a supplier of Twin+earth cable.  All my attempts at buying such in Thailand have been met with blank looks (Why do you want a third wire?)

When I did my house, or re-made what the Thai Elect had done, I brought a cable reel from UK.  handy o know where I can get more able now.

[sometimewoodworker]

31 minutes ago, Robin said:

Could someone suggest a supplier of Twin+earth cable.  All my attempts at buying such in Thailand have been met with blank looks (Why do you want a third wire?)

When I did my house, or re-made what the Thai Elect had done, I brought a cable reel from UK.  handy o know where I can get more able now.

3 core cable is available in almost every electrical store selling any reasonable selection of cable. you may need to order it as it’s not commonly used as single strand is usual. However you will find that the cores are equal size you don’t get the smaller uninsulated earth 

Single strand; grey, black, yellow green

multi strand; black, red, grey

 

[Crossy]

You have to ask for VAF-G if you want the flat building cable.

 

Note that "2 core" is actually 2 core plus earth.

[mahjongguy]

Why no soldering?

 

When we re-wired this old house we could only get 2-wire Romex so we ran a third wire (green) separately. There were several connections in that earth wire that I soldered because I felt they needed maximum physical strength. Then each got a wire nut and a bit of tape.

 

 

[sometimewoodworker]

54 minutes ago, mahjongguy said:

Why no soldering?

 

 

Because solder is not a high temperature high current junction 

[mahjongguy]

1 hour ago, sometimewoodworker said:

Because solder is not a high temperature high current junction 

So in a certain set of circumstances the earth might carry enough current to melt and open the join?

 

In my usage, the wire nuts would not prevent disaster?

[sometimewoodworker]

2 hours ago, mahjongguy said:

In my usage, the wire nuts would not prevent disaster?

They could it depends on the technique used. Don’t forget you could be dealing with a fault current of a few hundred amps that could potentially boil the solder so blowing the connection apart, not a good failure condition I think you will agree.

 

However all junctions involving significant amperage use screwed terminals or thermal welded junctions.