Elderly expats dazed and confused over insurance, ‘retirement visas’ and COVID

[puck2]

Thai bureaucrazy has the foreign-friendly  ???? policy just to control you, when you have to go to the toilet. 90-reporting is one example of many..

 

But when it would be really useful to control foreigners leaving Thailand (for whatever reason), there is a big failure.

 

Sleeping Thai Government - here is one idea to get payed nearly all the hospital bills of the farangs:

 

Build a central IT-data for all foreigners who don't pay their medical bills. The right to access to these datas should be given to all medical institutions who had unpayed  (foreign) medical invoices. Therefore all the Thai medical institutions should be able to register for unpayed bills of foreigners. The datas should contain names, nationality and other important details of the culprits.

 

And now the big bang: all authorities at points for leaving the Thai country (airport, harbours, border controls etc.) should have access to these datas, so that they can examine, if the leaving foreigner has ever payed all his medical bills. If unpayed, foreigners should not be allowed to leave Thailand and should be taken to the ploice.

 

Then no government crying about unpaid bills.

 

(But I guess, the main reason for the government is to receive some money of those overpriced health insurences.)

[Chad3000]

1 hour ago, The Fugitive said:

Do you remember a few months back there was an article about Thai mortuaries being rammed full of farang cadavers nobody claims. I have read that after 30 days unclaimed corpses receive a mass pauper's cremation, the cost of which plus storage expenses, transport, handling and administration is borne by the Thai Government. 

What do you think the government pays a wat in Nakon Nowhere to cremate a body? My guess is pretty much nothing.

[Sheryl]

44 minutes ago, smedly said:

I know you are involved in the health sector Sheryl - is it insurance ?

 

you seem to be well clued in on insurance topics 

 

straight question

No, I do not and never have, worked in insurance.

[daveAustin]

Get a grip thailand! You’ve made enough off of foreigners in the past. Suggest advising people to have standard travel insurance—AS NORMAL COUNTRIES DO—and forget this silly, worthless covid cover tat, and the backward policy if hospitalising covid carriers for that matter. It will end up costing you once word gets around, since people will go elsewhere. 2019 is not coming back; you will have to fight for tourists, people don’t want to be messed around. Don’t believe it’s prejudice against foreigners, it is simply incompetence and wanting to have it all their own way. Children..

[Sheryl]

42 minutes ago, Salerno said:

Not with SS he doesn't, the OP is correct:

 

"Expats living and working in Thailand under a valid visa or residential permit are required to provide proof of insurance coverage in Thailand with a minimum coverage of 50,000 USD or a valid social security card or certified letter from their employer."

 

Point 1 under Documentation https://www.mfa.go.th/en/content/thailand-pass-faqs

 

It says that on the MFA site but I have yet to hear a single case where anyone was able to do that. Also, not reflected on the websites of any Embassy that I have seen.

 

There are huge gaps between what MNFA site says and Embassy sites say regarding insurance, all round. (MFA site for example does nto list any specific insurance requirement for O-A visa)

[Sheryl]

51 minutes ago, smedly said:

so you don't think that those living here for XX years should automatically be rolled in ?

To "roll" them in would require first considerable research to establish appropriate fee structure, by age.

 

The migrants pay only about 2,000 baht a year for cover. No way can this be expanded to include elderly expats, or even middle-aged ones -- would entail a huge financial loss. They would need top charge more, and exactly how much would need to be determined,. A lot  of research preceded the establishment of the migrant system.

[Salerno]

1 minute ago, Sheryl said:

It says that on the MFA site but I have yet to hear a single case where anyone was able to do that. Also, not reflected on the websites of any Embassy that I have seen.

As we all know, Embassy websites aren't exactly the most reliable. Pretty sure someone in the bigger thread reported he'd already received QR code and used SS. 

[gearbox]

2 hours ago, JohnOFphon said:

I'm here on Non O A and have bought that wonderful  (Not) insurance from LMG.

7000 a year..

If I go out with a re-entry permit does that insurance meet the needs when I return?

My current permisson to stay expires in 7 months. If LMG is as worthless as I believe...I would have to buy 7 or so months of travel insurance., or come back Visa exempt. Then convert to Non O.

Hate to lose the 7 months I have left now..

Yes, you can use your LMG insurance if:

 

* covers covid

* coverage is $100K USD or more. You paid 7000, which is cheap, but probably with very big deductible. For example if your insurance cover is 5 mil baht, but your deductible is 4.8 mil baht you should be able to enter, as the deductible is usually not accounted for by the immigration. However for real medical coverage this setup would be pretty useless. Travel insurances normally don't allow for big deductible.

 

When you return to Thailand they'll stamp you to the date of your reentry permit or your policy expire date,  to the earliest of both. For example your reentry permit is 10th July 2022, your policy expiry date is 10th March 2022, you'll be allowed to stay until 10th March.

[Sheryl]

Just now, Salerno said:

As we all know, Embassy websites aren't exactly the most reliable. Pretty sure someone in the bigger thread reported he'd already received QR code and used SS. 

If so, I missed it - can you find link? I am trying to keep track of what peopke have used to get Thailand Pass QR code as this will be the ultinmate test of whatr is accepted.

[Bkk Brian]

5 minutes ago, Sheryl said:

It says that on the MFA site but I have yet to hear a single case where anyone was able to do that. Also, not reflected on the websites of any Embassy that I have seen.

 

There are huge gaps between what MNFA site says and Embassy sites say regarding insurance, all round. (MFA site for example does nto list any specific insurance requirement for O-A visa)

Richard Barrow used his:

 

My insurance was initially a problem. She wanted to see a policy where it says Covid coverage. I only had my social security digital card. I pointed out that MFA wouldn’t give me Thailand Pass if it wasn’t acceptable. Finally she found someone with a QR Code reader on their phone

https://twitter.com/RichardBarrow/status/1455845450662268934

 

[John Drake]

3 minutes ago, Bkk Brian said:

Richard Barrow used his:

 

My insurance was initially a problem. She wanted to see a policy where it says Covid coverage. I only had my social security digital card. I pointed out that MFA wouldn’t give me Thailand Pass if it wasn’t acceptable. Finally she found someone with a QR Code reader on their phone

https://twitter.com/RichardBarrow/status/1455845450662268934

 

He gets special treatment. I believe he was returning from a TAT junket in London. Treatment for some influencer getting payola is probably different from the rest of us.

[gearbox]

1 hour ago, John Drake said:

Can't wait to see Thai Pass and the insurance requirement used with mass tourism from China. 

Short term tourists are pretty much not affected. Most of them were coming with a travel insurance pre-covid times,  would be the same now, except maybe a few bucks extra. Most of the western travel insurance policies cover way more than 50K USD.

[Salerno]

5 minutes ago, Sheryl said:

If so, I missed it - can you find link? I am trying to keep track of what peopke have used to get Thailand Pass QR code as this will be the ultinmate test of whatr is accepted.

 

That thread is a bit of a mess, if you are trying to collate the data, could be worth starting a new thread with specific data mentioned and no discussion e.g.

 

Topic not for discussion. If you have received your pass and willing to share, please supply the following information:

 

Country flying from:

Vaccination certificate from:

Insurance company:

How long entering for:

Submitted details on:

Received QR on:

 

etc. etc. whatever data your looking for

[Bluetongue]

Threads like this make me wonder whether there are many elderly farang out there who don't bother to keep their extensions up to date, because it all becomes too hard, or because they do not intend to leave, or they become forgetful or broke. I don't want to end my days in a nursing home back in Australia, but I haven't got any illusions about trouble free aging and then dotage here. Think I'll just pay a fixer to go and get my passport stamped here.

 

Does anyone know if Immigration has any capacity to follow up on people who extend regularly for years and then fail to do so?

[Bkk Brian]

5 minutes ago, John Drake said:

He gets special treatment. I believe he was returning from a TAT junket in London. Treatment for some influencer getting payola is probably different from the rest of us.

Possibly but he did not seem to get any special treatment on his return into Bangkok:

 

Richard Barrow just reported it took 28 hours quarantined in his room for him to get his pcr test result when he arrived back in Bangkok

[gearbox]

23 minutes ago, daveAustin said:

Get a grip thailand! You’ve made enough off of foreigners in the past. Suggest advising people to have standard travel insurance—AS NORMAL COUNTRIES DO—and forget this silly, worthless covid cover tat, and the backward policy if hospitalising covid carriers for that matter. It will end up costing you once word gets around, since people will go elsewhere. 2019 is not coming back; you will have to fight for tourists, people don’t want to be messed around. Don’t believe it’s prejudice against foreigners, it is simply incompetence and wanting to have it all their own way. Children..

In regards to the Thailand Pass requirements Thailand doesn't force you to buy Thai insurance. I'm flying back next week with a standard travel insurance covering covid (many do cover covid now).

[gearbox]

5 minutes ago, Bluetongue said:

 

Does anyone know if Immigration has any capacity to follow up on people who extend regularly for years and then fail to do so?

I don't think they are at that level yet, but it won't be long. It is a fairly straightforward data match between the visas/extensions used and the border departure records. Australia has these for ages to cut automatically payments from various government departments.

 

Then again after seeing the technological prowess with the Thailand Pass implementation and the other online services we use, it could be a while ????

[silverhawk_usa]

2 hours ago, Salerno said:

Because it hasn't changed your visa. You have an extension to stay for reason of marriage (previously retirement) based on your Non O-A visa. An extension doesn't change your original visa.

I agree, and have argued this for years. There still seems to be some confusion.

[Misterwhisper]

  What a confusing article. I now know exactly as much as before... very little. Allow me to recap:

 

- O and O-A are 2 different visa classes

- the holder of an O-A visa DOES need the stipulated insurance

- the holder an O visa does NOT need the stipulated insurance "because that visa is extended within the country"

- yet if the holder of an O visa leaves Thailand for a trip abroad, the stipulated insurance IS required upon returning to Thailand

- in fact EVERY foreigner entering Thailand NEEDS that insurance (except WP holders who can prove they are enrolled in the government's flimsy healthcare scheme)

 

So for all intents and purposes, an O visa holder is not one iota better off than an O-A visa holder... unless the O visa holder remains holed up in Thailand indefinitely and never travels abroad, neglecting family and friends in the "old country".

 

So why make that distinction between O and O-A visas in the first place? There IS no difference as far as entering (or returning to) Thailand is concerned. They ALL need a $50,000 health insurance that includes treatment for Covid.

 

And then to think that Thailand still holds on to your 800,000 baht deposit while you are abroad and then cannot return because you are either too old for any insurance company to accept you as a "Covid insurance client" or simply because you cannot afford the steep insurance premium.

[hereforgood]

2 hours ago, lexilis said:

I have a valid Thai Social Security card and am on O retirement extensions. Don't need WP or letter.

Yes like yourself I am in the Social Security System here because of working for 15 years and now continued payments privately. I have downloaded the my wallet app that has the social security information in it so despite my card expiring 9 years ago the Q R code once scanned shows that I am covered under the Social Security System very good for those of us that have worked here gets rid of the extra insurance headache

[hereforgood]

5 minutes ago, Misterwhisper said:

insurance IS required upon returning to Thailand

- in fact EVERY foreigner entering Thailand NEEDS that insurance (except WP holders who can prove they are enrolled in the government's flimsy healthcare scheme)

Or those that have retired and continued paying the Social Security privately do not need the insurance as well as far as flimsy can't say that I agree with you. The Thai government is paid for over 1 million Baht worth of surgeries for me at cost of nothing to me. Many people are under the impression that the insurance they provide isn't very good well that's not the case or how I see it anyway

[Salerno]

3 minutes ago, Misterwhisper said:

So for all intents and purposes, an O visa holder is not one iota better off than an O-A visa holder.

But what you missed is the US$100K insurance that only Non O-A require.

 

Was 40K/400K Bht (outpatient/inpatient) just bumped up as above. 

 

People are being confused by the insurance required due to Covid.

[HeijoshinCool]

2 hours ago, Enzian said:

I think what's being missed is that Non-O persons re-entering the country only need insurance for the period of stay they are stamped in for.    eg, I, a non-O holder, return on Dec. 7 and the IO looks at my PP and sees that my re-entry permit expires 14 days later on Dec. 20; she stamps me in to Dec. 20. The fact that I will stay much longer doesn't matter. I only need to buy 30 days of the required insurance. When that runs out I don't have to renew, Im back like I was way back, essentially self-insured.

.

 

Yes, I'm aware of that. My question is, if we never leave LOS, will we be grandfathered in, or will they someday require us to have coverage?

[poohy]

22 minutes ago, Bkk Brian said:

Possibly but he did not seem to get any special treatment on his return into Bangkok:

 

Richard Barrow just reported it took 28 hours quarantined in his room for him to get his pcr test result when he arrived back in Bangkok

Oh dear that" insufferable man" Barrow is suffering

Edited November 5, 2021 by poohy

[Salerno]

2 minutes ago, HeijoshinCool said:

Yes, I'm aware of that. My question is, if we never leave LOS, will we be grandfathered in, or will they someday require us to have coverage?

Good question, until recently odds on you'd be grandfathered as per previous immigration changes. The O-A 40/400K killed that and possibly a precedent has been set.

[Card]

3 hours ago, Enzian said:

I think what's being missed is that Non-O persons re-entering the country only need insurance for the period of stay they are stamped in for.    eg, I, a non-O holder, return on Dec. 7 and the IO looks at my PP and sees that my re-entry permit expires 14 days later on Dec. 20; she stamps me in to Dec. 20. The fact that I will stay much longer doesn't matter. I only need to buy 30 days of the required insurance. When that runs out I don't have to renew, Im back like I was way back, essentially self-insured.

No. You need to buy covid insurance up to the date of your visa expiry or return ticket not your re entry permit.

[thaivisareader]

returning to Thailand with just enough insurance  to cover till your "O" retirement visa needs renewal? Say 30-60 days? has any retiree tried that yet? 

[toho]

Mentioning  amounts on an insurance statement is a NO-GO for insurance companies in The Netherlands. 

 

I have a basic state health insurance as well as an excellent additional insurance. This basic insurance already fully covers Covid-19.

Moreover I have an extra travel insurance, which also covers medical assistance.

But all of theses insurance companies do not mention amounts (50.000 USD, 400.00 THB, etc.)!!

So now Thai authorities force me to buy another insurance.

Completely unnecessary!! And the older you get, the higher the premium.

 

I asked my insurance companies for a statement several times, but they just give me a general statement without mentioning any amount.

 

I can understand that Thai authorities do not want to pay hospital bills for some stupid foreigners who think they can travel around the world without any health insurance at all.

 

But it would be a big help if Thai authorities would approve that every visitor can enter Thailand if they can show a statement of their health insurance company, including the clause that Covid-19 is covered,  but WITHOUT the required amounts.  

Edited November 5, 2021 by toho
adapt text

[TheFishman1]

So if you just renew your nan o extension  and you want to leave the country then you’re gonna have to buy another 11 months of insurance that seems to be very expensive TIT

[Rimmer]

A spelling police post has been removed