Elderly expats dazed and confused over insurance, ‘retirement visas’ and COVID

[WayneJ]

“There is currently no requirement for anyone on a Non Immigrant O extension to have health insurance - apart from if they wish to re-enter Thailand, which is a requirement for all foreigners, regardless of their visa status.”

If you are in Thailand on a Retirement O Visa and want to leave the country you need to get a Re-entry Permit before leaving in order to get back in under your visa rather than as a tourist.  If you are re-enter under this scenario do you still need a Thailand Pass and the associated health insurance?  I’m waiting to book a trip in 2022 and have no idea.  At my age and a diabetic health insurance isn’t available.

 

Maybe it’s time to make the Panama Retirement Pensionado…

[Salerno]

3 minutes ago, Anant72 said:

I have a Cigna health insurance that covers me up to US$250,000 a year and that includes COVID.

That should be fine, overseas policies are accepted.

[Salerno]

1 minute ago, WayneJ said:

If you are in Thailand on a Retirement O Visa and want to leave the country you need to get a Re-entry Permit before leaving in order to get back in under your visa rather than as a tourist.  If you are re-enter under this scenario do you still need a Thailand Pass and the associated health insurance?

Yes.

[Anant72]

1 minute ago, Salerno said:

That should be fine, overseas policies are accepted.

 

1 minute ago, Salerno said:

That should be fine, overseas policies are accepted.

Thanks.

[gajah]

Yes, I have a similar question to the one above -- Do health care insurance companies outside of Thailand meet this requirement for O-A retirees? I have a Cigna policy which exceeds the requirements, but has not worked in the past O-A extensions. So I have the LMG policy also, which does work. I am wondering if I can just continue Cigna, and possibly drop LMG? A further issue is the the dates of the Cigna policy do not match my visa dates, something I will have to work out.

[Salerno]

1 minute ago, gajah said:

I have a Cigna policy which exceeds the requirements, but has not worked in the past O-A extensions.

Should work now, it was part of the changes: https://www.thaiexaminer.com/thai-news-foreigners/2021/10/20/health-insurance-changes-for-expat-retirees/

 

 

[jerrymahoney]

12 minutes ago, Anant72 said:

I am am a non-O visa holder. I have a Cigna health insurance that covers me up to US$250,000 a year and that includes COVID. I am still trying to ascertain whether this insurance company is considered legitimate or not since it is not on the Ministry of Health’s list of insurance companies. I am going to be 74 soon and Would have a hard time getting a policy. I am not planning to go abroad any time soon but will eventually have to. Has anybody heard about the possibility the health authorities could accept other insurance companies for retirees over 70?

While I an sure the CIGNA policy covers Covid19, you would have to obtain some document from them "indicating" that COVID is covered in the general policy language.

 

Something SIMILAR to this: Example of AXA’s Covid-19 Certificate

Edited November 5, 2021 by jerrymahoney

[Bogbrush]

16 minutes ago, Salerno said:

Not Thai and no specification re out-patient requirement,

That’s good to know; so on the annual extension you can just rock up with any insurance policy written in any language, issued in any country and in any currency (as long as it is equivalent to $100 000) - a big change from the previous system where insurance was so tightly controlled the issuing companies were linked to the Immigration computer system. 

[Salerno]

1 minute ago, Bogbrush said:

so on the annual extension you can just rock up with any insurance policy written in any language, issued in any country and in any currency

That I doubt, but haven't seen anything specific. I would expect you would need the policy in English at least.

[Havenstreet1940]

1 hour ago, kiwikeith said:

I think that covid insurance is fine ,it's quite affordable, but if your over 75 the health insurance, separate from covid, becomes a financial nighmare for 0ver 75 .

I have spoken to some of the advisors that are linked to advertising on this site and they say USD 20,000 per year for people who are up there in the over 75, I find this abysmal, and it seems to be a money grab from Thai Insurance companies.

If your covered for covid that should be the main concern and that insurance is offered cheap to people up to 95 yrs of age, buttttt, the health insurance needed on top, seems like nothing but a scam, and a way off ripping off the elderly and forcing them out of Thailand, even though they have spent many years in the country and have children to Thai partners and contribute more than any  tourist would to the economy.

It is shameful , NZ does not treat Thai elderly people like this, we grant them citizenship and a pension if they qualify, and we educate their grandchildren free.

Andbut hey,when Iam we give them free hospital care and ACC insurance -- free.

US$20,000 a year for over 75's?   I'm 83 and I have cover for US$ 80,000 a year for a fraction of that.  Admittedly it only covers me in Thailand, but hey, when I'm in UK I've got the use of the best health service in the world and it's free!

[kiwikeith]

30 minutes ago, MrJ2U said:

Constantly changing.

 

There are constantly spinning ideas to make money of tourists and expats alike.

 

Never mind Phukets notorious Taxis.

 

This government rivals any Taxi Mafia!

Thais can ride motorbikes with no helmets, carry babies, talk on a cell phone, no problem-- to the hospitals, I have been in hospital emergency wards for medical treatment several times.

I have seen the accident victims coming in,  it is shocking, to be on a drip watching this helplessness in front of your eyes.

 

Yet the road toll continues, in the country now ranked as the most unsafe for motorists, a country that is opening to tourism, and punishing the good people (expats) or whoever, that have established relationships, established families that are part of Thai cultural education, to the rest of the world, by demanding insurance premiums from them that are exorbitant, and not only that , not allowing them to have private insurance with their own country.

 

All of this supposedly because one Falung did a runner on a hospital bill, When I was in hospital they took my passport, I gave it to them willingly, they treated me well, I paid my bill, which was very affordable, compared to other countries. I was grateful for the service and treatment I recieved.

Now they want to open up the new Thailand, I thought the bar scene was going to not happen under the new norm, but the picture I saw was girls dressed in gold dresses standing outside bars welcoming the new norm.

Maybe the new norm is  , kissing , must wear face mask, drinking must not remove mask, funny? no true, in Melbourne you can not remove your face mask to drink alcohol, yep how stupid the world has become.

[SunsetT]

6 hours ago, webfact said:

One of the main differences between an O-A visa and Non-Imm O extension is that Non Immigrant O extensions are obtained from an immigration office within Thailand.

 

A Non-Immigrant “O-A” Visa is obtained by applying at a Thai embassy or consulate overseas.

This article just creates more confusion by stating this false comparison as a 'main difference'! Both OA and O visas are obtained by applying at a Thai embassy or consulate overseas, and extensions for both are 'obtained from an immigration office within Thailand.'

[thurien]

the inventors of the most diabolic charades in this world threw us a problem again to gnaw on over the week- end and fume...you will see: On Monday, "that was all a mistake, a simple misunderstanding on your side..."

[Salerno]

3 minutes ago, SunsetT said:

Both OA and O visas are obtained by applying at a Thai embassy or consulate overseas

Depends, Australians can't get a Non O for retirement but, like everyone else, they can get them in Thailand.

[bkk_bwana]

6 hours ago, JohnOFphon said:

If LMG is as worthless as I believe...

LMG is the Thailand arm of Liberty Mutual, one of the top ten insurance companies in the world. It's Bluechip. Don't worry.

[Orinoco]

14 minutes ago, kiwikeith said:

Thais can ride motorbikes with no helmets, carry babies, talk on a cell phone, no problem-- to the hospitals, I have been in hospital emergency wards for medical treatment several times.

I have seen the accident victims coming in,  it is shocking, to be on a drip watching this helplessness in front of your eyes.

 

Yet the road toll continues, in the country now ranked as the most unsafe for motorists, a country that is opening to tourism, and punishing the good people (expats) or whoever, that have established relationships, established families that are part of Thai cultural education, to the rest of the world, by demanding insurance premiums from them that are exorbitant, and not only that , not allowing them to have private insurance with their own country.

 

All of this supposedly because one Falung did a runner on a hospital bill, When I was in hospital they took my passport, I gave it to them willingly, they treated me well, I paid my bill, which was very affordable, compared to other countries. I was grateful for the service and treatment I recieved.

Now they want to open up the new Thailand, I thought the bar scene was going to not happen under the new norm, but the picture I saw was girls dressed in gold dresses standing outside bars welcoming the new norm.

Maybe the new norm is  , kissing , must wear face mask, drinking must not remove mask, funny? no true, in Melbourne you can not remove your face mask to drink alcohol, yep how stupid the world has become.

Yes and some.

But,   Now Even More Amazing Thailand Has It All

Oh maybe not.

[Misterwhisper]

2 hours ago, vandeventer said:

I guess will just have to get our lazy [Cheap] friends or family to come here to see us, for a change.

LOL that will be the day... and then you are stuck with them for 3 or 4 weeks and have to pay for EVERYTHING.

[kennw]

6 hours ago, finnsk said:

Yes I agree with you. The way they handling the issue is quite clear, they just want to make it more difficult for normal retires to retire in LOS. They do not have any empathy for retires who have maked their life here on normal pensions and have believed in LOS and used their money here.

 

And previously legally worked here paid taxes, bought condominiums, spent their money here, propped up the economy with minimum, 400/800k bank deposits. But maybe there is still a bit of blood left in the stone.

[Salerno]

3 minutes ago, bkk_bwana said:

It's Bluechip. Don't worry.

Not that kind of worry I believe, If not mistaken LMG was the go-to with a 200K deductible purely to meet the requirements, basically a throwaway policy hence "worthless".

[SunsetT]

3million thb cover is peanuts when most UK medical cover for travel is for £10million, some £5million, and Im sure US and EU cover is similar. Of course the age issue is a problem but those worried should, while it lasts, grab an Emirates return flight with inclusive medical cover up to $500,000 which accepted by the Thai authorities WITH NO AGE LIMIT: https://c.ekstatic.net/ecl/documents/before-you-fly/multi-risk-travel-insurance-faqs.pdf?h=_4vFoemLSIMxG_zq0fsk6g

 

"20. Does this policy include an age limit or age restriction?
There are no age restrictions for this policy"

[nowhereman]

6 hours ago, lexilis said:

I have a valid Thai Social Security card and am on O retirement extensions. Don't need WP or letter.

I am on my WP for the last year and have Thai Social Security for 15 years. I intend to retire here and continue paying it. Would you be kind enough and send me a PM and tell me how much you pay monthly. Thank you in advance.

[DFPhuket]

2 hours ago, koratkarlos said:

I was planning to use my existing health insurance policy.  I have received a letter from the insurance company stating "We confirm that ********** health insurance does provide cover for Coronavirus (Covid-19) under and subject to the standard terms, conditions, exclusions and warranties of
the policy."  The letter also contains my policy number and maximum annual benefit which exceeds the $ 50,000.  Does anyone know if this is acceptable?   I have a relatively standard non-Thai expat policy underwritten by Allianz.  Thank you in advance.

I used that kind of letter from Cigna (along with my policy certificate) and I was approved for my two COEs. I assume that means it would also meet the Thailand Pass requirements. 

[SunsetT]

14 minutes ago, Salerno said:

Depends, Australians can't get a Non O for retirement but, like everyone else, they can get them in Thailand.

So the e-visa website excludes Ozzies?

 

[Salerno]

3 minutes ago, SunsetT said:

Of course the age issue is a problem but those worried should, while it lasts, grab an Emirates return flight with inclusive medical cover up to $500,000 which accepted by the Thai authorities WITH NO AGE LIMIT

Doesn't really address the issue even if people bought it before the 1 December cut-off. The issue is expats feeling “trapped” in Thailand, to use the Emirates policy they'd have to fly out and then fly back on Emirates. Then what do they do following year?

[Salerno]

5 minutes ago, SunsetT said:

So the e-visa website excludes Ozzies?

Yes, as I understand it, Aussies haven't been able to get a Non O (for retirement) since the O-A was launched.

Edited November 5, 2021 by Salerno

[Joules]

"There is currently no requirement for anyone on a Non Immigrant O extension to have health insurance - apart from if they wish to re-enter Thailand, which is a requirement for all foreigners, regardless of their visa status. "

 

I would NEVER go anywhere as a tourist that required me to buy 3 million baht (more than $90,000US) in medical insurance as a condition of entering the country.  As it is, I live here with an O visa and marriage extension.  I supposed I am trapped. If I leave, they will nail me when I come back.  No travel for me.  And I seriously doubt I will get the foreign visitors I used to get pre-covid, with this insurance requirement.  What healthy person is going to pay that for the privilege of a visit?  Only the horney perverts.

 

If the Thai government would simply open up the government medical system to bona fide tourists (at no charge), they would make money, not lose it.  As it is, few people will want to come.  Nobody is going to come here to rip off the <deleted>ty (how about "crappy"?) government healthcare.  And let's be clear, what this is really about is the greed of the influential insurance cartel in this country.  It's just another attempted money-grab.  Not a friendly country anymore.

 

By the way, why doesn't somebody publish a schedule listing the approximate cost of this insurance per week (or month or year) for each age group?   I NEVER see that.  

Edited November 5, 2021 by Joules

[Chad3000]

1 hour ago, 10baht said:

O-A's are not tourists,

They really are.

 

Retired tourists.

 

[SunsetT]

15 minutes ago, Salerno said:

Doesn't really address the issue even if people bought it before the 1 December cut-off. The issue is expats feeling “trapped” in Thailand, to use the Emirates policy they'd have to fly out and then fly back on Emirates. Then what do they do following year?

As I said: "While it lasts".  But OK, I did not realise it was ending so soon.

[Joules]

Judging from the content in the six pages of content here, This article seems to have done nothing to settle the confusion.  I Always thought that with my O visa and marriage extension I could go out on a trip somewhere and come back without buying the insurance.  Now it does not look that way.  And at my age, a lot of insurers like Aetna just say no.

[Orinoco]

 

Quote

O-A's are not tourists,

22 minutes ago, Chad3000 said:

They really are.

Retired tourists.

Yes that's what we all are,  just most don't get it.

Apart from the few that went for the downgrade, 

( permanent resident )  LOL.    

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited November 5, 2021 by Orinoco