It's a balancing act for them.

 

On the one hand they distrust us and don't really want us here but on the other hand they want our money. 

 

The trick for them is to entice just enough to get us here then pull the rug.

 

Just like the original Elite Visa scheme, which promised foreigners they could own one rai of land etc. but in actuality it turned out to be a costly, relatively worthless visa extension boondoggle that only some ex-government employees shuffled over to the office in Sathorn benefited from.

 

Expect this to be same and you won't be disappointed. 

While falling into one of their coveted categories of welcome farang, I am rather hesitant about moving any substantial sum of money into the country. Rules change, and rarely do they change for the benefit of non-Thais. When I say 'rarely', I am being generous, as in "rarely does one win the Powerball $billion lottery" or "rarely does an extinction level event comet strike the Earth". That kind of 'rarely'. Only what I can afford to lose will ever arrive on these shores.

 

Perhaps like the proverbial whiny farang, the Immigration system continues to bother me. I understand rules and restrictions, and I certainly appreciate the difficulty average Thais have trying to visit my country, but those who can visit my country do not face the abject corruption foreigners face here with Immigration. Yes, one can use an agent (I do), but it still results in demands for tributes all along the way. Also, everyone gets in on the act. The accounting firm who handles the business I own here would 'prefer' that I use their service to handle Immigration issues. I choose not to do so. That has resulted in the firm---quite soon to be former firm---dragging its feet on documents I need to add to the onerous 100-page application for my visa. Their failure to produce a one page doc held up my application and actually put me on overstay.

 

Obviously it is my fault for buying a business here without fully appreciating all the nonsense I would be forced to endure. I knew, but figured---wrongly---I could somehow avoid it. I waver at the moment as to whether I'll just accept the sunk cost, shut it down, and pull up stakes, or stay and 'hope' things get easier. Perhaps the govt believes there's plenty of other suckers like me out there to fill the void if and when I depart.

 

Who suffers when either businesses depart for greener pastures or never come in the first place? It's the average Thai, the folks who are given jobs due to FDI. Clearly these people are not a priority in the eyes of the ruling elite. Rules are made to benefit those who already have plenty, and if a rule change does benefit the common Thai, that is merely serendipity, not conscious intent.

 

What they fail to realize is that a smaller piece of a bigger pie might be larger than the piece they already get. On the other hand, perhaps the intent is control, and the elite gladly accept a larger piece of a smaller pie so long as they remain the biggest fish in the puddle.

 

 

i endorse CHRIS B 100%   pity the government wont  listen to opinion of us that live here !!!!  never will just bickered / deaf thai authority 

21 hours ago, Fujionrye said:

I'm in Canada and, as of today, I can drive across the American border with proof of Vaccination and my passport. That's it. No Covid insurance, Covid test, foolish paper work, visa, or quarantine. With my Canadian passport, I can stay six months Go anywhere, stay anywhere and not report anything to anyone. So that's the competition Thailand. Go for it.

Canada is no 'easy street', international air arrivals must upload all their travel info/CV vaccination certs. etc on a Government Arrival App a few days before arriving, at least the 3 day 1500.00 - 2000.00 CAD mandatory hotel quarantine is not required for the fully vaccinated, also possibly you can still can be picked for random arrival testing.......

Thailand...the best country for an expat to leave.

Do overseas people get to read these statements in other sources?

And if they do, do they get the feeling that Thailand is only interested in money extraction in any way they can get it?

or maybe these news reports have their translation all wrong (I think probably not)

Del

22 hours ago, webfact said:

The would-be expats would have healthy bank balances or pension pots and would generate up to one trillion baht for the Thai economy, it was estimated.

 

It is like McDonalds saying they only want to attract Michelin 5 star restaurant goers for customers ....Poor Thailand...stop begging...stop embarrassing yourself...Your a great little country & your selling point as always will be cheap & plenty....that is all for now...carry on

2 hours ago, Walker88 said:

While falling into one of their coveted categories of welcome farang, I am rather hesitant about moving any substantial sum of money into the country. Rules change, and rarely do they change for the benefit of non-Thais. When I say 'rarely', I am being generous, as in "rarely does one win the Powerball $billion lottery" or "rarely does an extinction level event comet strike the Earth". That kind of 'rarely'. Only what I can afford to lose will ever arrive on these shores.

 

Perhaps like the proverbial whiny farang, the Immigration system continues to bother me. I understand rules and restrictions, and I certainly appreciate the difficulty average Thais have trying to visit my country, but those who can visit my country do not face the abject corruption foreigners face here with Immigration. Yes, one can use an agent (I do), but it still results in demands for tributes all along the way. Also, everyone gets in on the act. The accounting firm who handles the business I own here would 'prefer' that I use their service to handle Immigration issues. I choose not to do so. That has resulted in the firm---quite soon to be former firm---dragging its feet on documents I need to add to the onerous 100-page application for my visa. Their failure to produce a one page doc held up my application and actually put me on overstay.

 

Obviously it is my fault for buying a business here without fully appreciating all the nonsense I would be forced to endure. I knew, but figured---wrongly---I could somehow avoid it. I waver at the moment as to whether I'll just accept the sunk cost, shut it down, and pull up stakes, or stay and 'hope' things get easier. Perhaps the govt believes there's plenty of other suckers like me out there to fill the void if and when I depart.

 

Who suffers when either businesses depart for greener pastures or never come in the first place? It's the average Thai, the folks who are given jobs due to FDI. Clearly these people are not a priority in the eyes of the ruling elite. Rules are made to benefit those who already have plenty, and if a rule change does benefit the common Thai, that is merely serendipity, not conscious intent.

 

What they fail to realize is that a smaller piece of a bigger pie might be larger than the piece they already get. On the other hand, perhaps the intent is control, and the elite gladly accept a larger piece of a smaller pie so long as they remain the biggest fish in the puddle.

 

 

Sounds terrible.  Could you give a few examples of the "abject corruption foreigners face here with Immigration".  Sure it happens and sincerely curious.  I haven't experienced even a little corruption with immigration unless I looked looked for a corrupt way to make a tedious process easier.

 

Best of luck with the business and think I made a good decision not to do business here.

4 hours ago, atpeace said:

Many expats regardless of country they reside, complain incessantly about everything that isn't comparable to where they came from.  Ironic but human nature it seems.  

 

It is difficult to find that calm place to criticize.  It is a developing nation with very affordable living.  A beautiful country and also can be extremally filthy.  The dual pricing is not a major obstacle to overcome but is an afront to many expats sense of fairness.  In certain situations it can be a financial hardship but  rarely. 

 

I'm an outdoor enthusiast and have to choose where to run/bike at times depending on excessive park fees.  400 baht a day to run is a little over the top.  Even now in the middle of nowhere, my favorite place to exercise is 250 baht each day.  There are work arounds and don't let it ruin my morning.

 

What I hear most often:

1.  90 day reporting is ridiculous.  

        - This the by far  the biggest complaint I hear.  I could go in to detail about my feeling on this matter but I won't. In               the  end, it is amazing that such a trivial matter is at the top of the list.

2. Visa Issues

      - Bureaucratic run government services are a mess regardless of country.  Here it seems to be quite easy to navigate for 99% of expats.  Is it fun? No and a million other things I would rather spend my time enjoying.  In the end, it cost me a few hours every year excluding travel.  This probably oversimplifies the the visa concerns but so many mostly banal concerns that one could get lost in the frustration.

3. We can't own property.

       -This is a major pain in the butt but they have their reasons as do many other developing nations.

4. Dual pricing

     -just a something to complain about that really isn't an issue unless you get offended easily which I do at times and many others.  Park fees, hospital costs, sporting events, and many others that just leave you with a bad feeling and some even are quite costly.  Some is even justified but most aren't and almost all the above are excessive.

 

In the end, I appreciate how easy Thailand is to live as an expat  and roll with the minor issues.  My state of mind though isn't universal so if others are bent, howl at the moon which is possibly a perfect solution.

 

 

You forgot the insurance. The issue for me and a lot of others is the insurance scam. I don't care about the other things, dual pricing, 90 days, doing the yearly extension (as long as the rules don't change), or the property issue. I don't have any problem with Thailand privileging their citizens over foreigners. I just wish my country would do the same. So make us do the reports and bring a lot of photocopies to immigration once per year. Protect Thais from being priced out of their own property market. Reward Thais with being able to visit places at a discount to us. Heck, I don't even mind the dual pricing at hospitals.  But stop the insurance scam.

6 hours ago, crouchpeter said:

Don't you think you should be responsible for your own stupidity and gullibility?

It's not always stupidity and gullibility. In many cases it's fraud. Giving foreigners full property rights to marital property real estate would take away the incentive to enter into scam marriages. Are you against this? Or was my post just too irresistible of an opportunity to feel smug and superior at my expense?

 

If you're so confident that you're too smart and street-savvy to ever be deceived by someone, well, bully for you. Can you honestly say you've never been lied to while looking someone straight in the eyes? It's happened to me, and I'm not ashamed to admit it because I know it could happen to anyone.

 

Who's that deputy PM again? The one with the long funny name?  Seems they don't even know their ranks, positions or whatever, never mind names. I thought they were supposed to be soldiers. The deputy PM, that's the other Chuckle Brother, is called Anutin. Is he not?

On 11/9/2021 at 12:52 PM, herfiehandbag said:

Anyone from these 4 categories, considering coming to live here as an expatriate, (and therefore entrusting a significant proportion of their wealth to Thailand) will of course do some serious research into the country and those who run it.

 

10 minutes on Google should suffice...

As much as that?

23 hours ago, bdenner said:

5. The intellectual ability to sort through the TM 30 and TM 47 problems they will still have to face.

They are soldiers, not accountants.

23 hours ago, Fujionrye said:

I'm in Canada and, as of today, I can drive across the American border with proof of Vaccination and my passport. That's it. No Covid insurance, Covid test, foolish paper work, visa, or quarantine. With my Canadian passport, I can stay six months Go anywhere, stay anywhere and not report anything to anyone. So that's the competition Thailand. Go for it.

That's too sensible for the soldiers in charge here.

23 hours ago, vandeventer said:

Yes, do more for the Farang's that live here, and who knows we might even support you?

There is one of us who supports him, but you probably won't hear from him for a while yet, he should me making his way home about now with carrier bags under each arm full of cans of Chang. 

Really need to get rid of the 90 day reporting, the TM 30 requirement, and dual pricing in any form.  There are other things but this is just for starters.

28 minutes ago, Hanuman2547 said:

Really need to get rid of the 90 day reporting, the TM 30 requirement, and dual pricing in any form.  There are other things but this is just for starters.

They were mulling that over pre-covid.  Think it will depend on some bean counting, and if enough idiot criminals actually filed paperwork with active warrants on them, then they may keep it.

16 hours ago, Peter Dennis said:

I’m a multi millionaire who has been enduring the same shabby treatment from immigration and other officials for decades just as everyone has, because I refuse to pay a corrupt agent to do an end run around officialdom.

 

Though tempted by the offer to “buy some respect” by investing in a luxury apartment and obtaining that 10 year “rich man’s visa”, I am expecting the powers that be to shoot themselves in the foot with some deal breaker regulations emanating from the anti western racism that pervades the mindset of that cabal of hi-so business types and their allies in the military/police/public service that hold all the power in this country.

They hold the reigns in this patronage based society and a cause of Covid now need more money to help them toncontinue to hold sway over the ordinary decent, powerless Thai people who are forced by poverty to submit to them.
Now that the money is short they reluctantly turn to people like me for a bail out. Offering to remove all the purposefully imposed hindrances to expat life designed to force our submission, it’s a deal with the devil that is being offered. So evil repercussions down the track are to be expected. 

I could also bring 100 million baht into Thailand. But for what? I am satisfied with the way I have invested my money in my home country (apartment buildings and stocks). For me it is important to have 100% control over my assets. To invest in a Thai company where I bring in 100% of the capital, but only have 49% ownership rights, makes no sense to me. I don't need to buy a glossy condo either. In the end, it's not that easy to sell it again. It just lack legal certainty and stability in Thailand. Unfortunately, I am not a global corporation where I could negotiate at the highest government level. I also complain about the cumbersome, repetitive bureaucratic paperwork. If Thailand wants well-heeled retirees and entrepreneurs here, they should first revise their administrative processes. Even the simplest processes are incredibly complicated here and often the completion of a process depends on the mood of the officer. Anyone who has already filed a trademark application, work permit, residence permit, tax return or company foundation by themselves, knows what I'm talking about.

Thailand: “Thais are superior to the dirty farang in every conceivable way.”

 

Also Thailand: “Come (hopefully by the millions) farang, because we can’t survive without you.”

2 hours ago, possum1931 said:

They are soldiers, not accountants.

More like pretend soldiers none of whom have ever been in an actual shooting war.

16 hours ago, The Hammer2021 said:

Clueless, culturally illiterate snobs. I almost feel sorry the popinjay in puce and his panjandrums..

Yep.

 

9/10 of their problems stem from the fact that (a) they don’t know anything about the people they’re proposing to attract, and (b) they’re not interested in finding out.

19 hours ago, atpeace said:

Sounds terrible.  Could you give a few examples of the "abject corruption foreigners face here with Immigration".  Sure it happens and sincerely curious.  I haven't experienced even a little corruption with immigration unless I looked looked for a corrupt way to make a tedious process easier.

 

Best of luck with the business and think I made a good decision not to do business here.

Since you asked.....

 

Getting a Non-B Business/Investor visa is a multi step process requiring around 100 pages of documentation, submitted on multiple occasions.  You receive a number of different temporary visas, each with the usual 'under consideration' stamp. After two temps you apply for the one year, which requires the same application of 100 pages of docs you submitted for the first two temps.

 

Besides many pages of fake and contrived 'action photos' of you at work, there is the DBD filing that notes the business and capital, as well as copies of your VAT filing for the months you operate under the temp visas. The IOs can asses your 'ability to contribute to their lifestyle' by reviewing the numbers.

 

At every step of the way, despite using an agent, 'something is missing' came up, despite the fact the IO did not even review the stack of docs. Put the pile in front of her, she leafs through without looking, then announces an 'issue'. "Fortunately" for you, she has a quick solution and tells you that if need be, there are many ATMs downstairs.

 

In my case there were three times when 'issues' were discovered that required ATM visits. There is no attempt to hide what is going on, which made me realize that not only is it common, there is no chance anyone will be punished for 'supplementing their income'.

 

They also seem to find issues when it gets close to expiration of the temp visa, so that you fall into overstay. You then get scolded like a schoolboy, pay a fine, then sign a doc admitting you're a bad boy. Next time you try to avoid that silliness by applying a few weeks before expiration. That's part of the Learning Curve.

 

Speaking with numerous other folks on similar visas who have set up or bought businesses here, I learned my experience is the norm. Often the 'issues' are rather foolish. One poster on this site noted that he was dinged because in his 'action shots' he was not wearing a suit and tie.

 

From speaking with my agent, I understand that the IO position addressing Non-B Business Visas is the most sought after job in Immigration, as it affords an officer the greatest opportunity to be 'tributed'.

 

As I noted in my other post, even my accounting firm withheld a doc because I did not use their agent service in trying to get my Non-B, instead using another agent. It took them six weeks to produce a one page doc, and that slowness put me on overstay.

 

I suspect for large multinationals all of this is not even a rounding error, but for smaller businesses and entrepreneurs, it is both irritating and an unwanted expense. Lost in all of this is that folks like me create and/or maintain dozens of jobs for Thai workers. Maybe it's not the 20K jobs a major mulitnational creates, but add all of us up and it's a lot of Thai people with gainful employment. It is a shame that Imm practices discourage this type of FDI.

 

The process has me reassessing my situation. If this is what I can expect again when I renew, I will likely close shop, accept the loss of my sunk costs, and leave the country.

 

The thread concerns the country's efforts to 'attract more expats'. Do you find what I wrote an attraction?

3 hours ago, Walker88 said:

 

 

The thread concerns the country's efforts to 'attract more expats'. Do you find what I wrote an attraction?

No, your situation seems like a nightmare.  Really didn't give any specific details and was more of a rant than anything that would help someone understand the difficulties.  I can only assume there is much truth to what you stated but would definitely search out more advice from successful business owners here.  Regardless, it is your truth and from your perspective it is a mess.  Can you give one example of why you made an "ATM visit"?  I'm sincerely curious and very aware of the rampant corruption.

21 hours ago, fusion58 said:

More like pretend soldiers none of whom have ever been in an actual shooting war.

And yet their uniforms are sagging with the weight of all the medals and commendations they received….

4 hours ago, atpeace said:

No, your situation seems like a nightmare.  Really didn't give any specific details and was more of a rant than anything that would help someone understand the difficulties.  I can only assume there is much truth to what you stated but would definitely search out more advice from successful business owners here.  Regardless, it is your truth and from your perspective it is a mess.  Can you give one example of why you made an "ATM visit"?  I'm sincerely curious and very aware of the rampant corruption.

Very simple:

 

"You have a problem here (with a document no one ever requested). For XX,XXX baht, we can fix it today. Up to you."

 

The demand for a tribute is made up on the fly, after they assess your ability to pay. It is no more complicated than that.

9 hours ago, atpeace said:

No, your situation seems like a nightmare.  Really didn't give any specific details and was more of a rant than anything that would help someone understand the difficulties.  I can only assume there is much truth to what you stated but would definitely search out more advice from successful business owners here.  Regardless, it is your truth and from your perspective it is a mess.  Can you give one example of why you made an "ATM visit"?  I'm sincerely curious and very aware of the rampant corruption.

There is much truth to what he stated. 

 

Edited to add: I am a successful small business owner.

Stop those 90 day checks needed for every expat. If you are here in Thailand married 

to a Thai woman, then it is obvious that most expats, who own

49 percent of their house, or condo are not going anywhere any time soon.

Once ever 6 months to say that you still live in the same place you have for

1, 5, or 10 years should be often enough.  What else is this great Thai government

doing?  Looking for fresh meat?  Good Luck.

Geezer