Overstay.

[dddave]

A friend is being treated for stage 3 cancer, chemo & all.  Lost all income when Covid travel restrictions made his work impossible. Now near destitute, diagnosed a year ago.

It appears he is on significant overstay but I'm not sure, depending if he qualified for the progressive visa amnesty's ongoing since the Covid crisis began.

 

Visa details.  Last visa: METV, issued in Melbourne Dec, 2019.  Last date of entry Feb:2020.  I do not know if he had another entry between the issue date and the February date so I guess we must assume he was on the 2nd entry of his METV.  There were no extensions.

 

Is he on about 16 month OS or does he fall under the visa amnesty's?

Edited November 9, 2021 by dddave

[Salerno]

3 minutes ago, dddave said:

It appears he is on significant overstay but I'm not sure

Sounds like he is; the Covid extensions (replaced the amnesty) still need a trip to the IO to obtain.

[Denim]

What exactly does the OP want to know ?

[dddave]

2 minutes ago, Salerno said:

Sounds like he is; the Covid extensions (replaced the amnesty) still need a trip to the IO to obtain.

I thought they were made automatic to eliminate crowding at immigration?  Am I wrong?

[Salerno]

Yes.

[dddave]

Just now, Denim said:

What exactly does the OP want to know ?

I want to know if my friend is officially on overstay or did he qualify for the visa extensions issued during the covid crisis.

[OJAS]

15 minutes ago, dddave said:

depending if he qualified for the progressive visa amnesty's ongoing since the Covid crisis began.

He might also have been eligible for 90-day medical extensions under para 2.25 of Police Order 327/2557 (see item 12 in the pinned thread at https://aseannow.com/topic/981135-laws-regulations-police-orders-etc/). But whether he has actually obtained any such extension is another matter.

 

 

[OJAS]

12 minutes ago, dddave said:

I want to know if my friend is officially on overstay or did he qualify for the visa extensions issued during the covid crisis.

Only an examination of the latest permission to stay stamp in his passport will enable this question to be answered definitively.

 

[jackdd]

14 minutes ago, dddave said:

I want to know if my friend is officially on overstay or did he qualify for the visa extensions issued during the covid crisis.

Everybody qualifies for them, but everybody needs to apply for them, they are not automatic.

So if your friend didn't apply for them he is on overstay, and will be banned once he leaves Thailand.

[ChipButty]

Sounds like overstay is the least of his problems, good luck with the chemo,

[WhiteBuffaloATM]

Covid Amnesty Expired 30 Sept. Then New Visa needed by your Friend to stay legally here.

Covid Extention or Longstay Visa. NOT “ Automatic” !  That was the one time Covid Amnesty Only. Otherwise appears 13 month overstay. coinciding with the shock cancer diagnosis though so some possible mitigation there……Ideally needs a top Immi. Lawyer / Agent to best present case to Immi. Do Not go to Immi. without prior Lawyer Declaration and Lawyer Present. He must now Declare to Immi. to avoid possible Jail if Caught Undeclared.

[jackdd]

3 minutes ago, WhiteBuffaloATM said:

He must now Declare to Immi. to avoid possible Jail if Caught Undeclared.

Who told you that this would be an option?

[ubonjoe]

20 minutes ago, dddave said:

I want to know if my friend is officially on overstay or did he qualify for the visa extensions issued during the covid crisis.

He might of been good under the amnesty that stared in March of last year but it expired and was not extended. After that it has been required to apply for a 60 day corvid 19 extension.

[2 is 1]

26 minutes ago, WhiteBuffaloATM said:

He must now Declare to Immi. to avoid possible Jail if Caught Undeclared.

He go to jail every other place than in airport when leave Thailand. He is overstay no lawyer can chance that. He need get out of country and pay fine in airport and he going to get entering ban also coz so long overstay IMO

Edited November 9, 2021 by 2 is 1

[dddave]

42 minutes ago, OJAS said:

He might also have been eligible for 90-day medical extensions under para 2.25 of Police Order 327/2557 (see item 12 in the pinned thread at https://aseannow.com/topic/981135-laws-regulations-police-orders-etc/). But whether he has actually obtained any such extension is another matter.

 

 

Thanks for this.  I was unable to access item 12, Google Docs access for the creator required.  How did you open it?

[ubonjoe]

16 minutes ago, dddave said:

Thanks for this.  I was unable to access item 12, Google Docs access for the creator required.  How did you open it?

It seems the admin that posted the link now requires authorized person to open it.

This download will work.

Immigration Bureau Order 327-2557 (2014) - extension criteria & conditions th.pdf

 

[bbko]

Was he being treated for his Stage 3 here in Thailand? 

[WhiteBuffaloATM]

5 hours ago, jackdd said:

Who told you that this would be an option?

its obvious. unless you think running around undeclared forever is better.

its one or the other. 

[WhiteBuffaloATM]

4 hours ago, 2 is 1 said:

He go to jail every other place than in airport when leave Thailand. He is overstay no lawyer can chance that. He need get out of country and pay fine in airport and he going to get entering ban also coz so long overstay IMO

chance what ? leave country how ? max. allowed fine covers 40 days overstay. he’s around 400 days.

jail possible for even one day overstay. well - connected lawyer required. 

[Gottfrid]

5 hours ago, dddave said:

I want to know if my friend is officially on overstay or did he qualify for the visa extensions issued during the covid crisis.

Yes, he is on overstay.

[Gottfrid]

5 hours ago, WhiteBuffaloATM said:

Covid Amnesty Expired 30 Sept. Then New Visa needed by your Friend to stay legally here.

Covid Extention or Longstay Visa. NOT “ Automatic” !  That was the one time Covid Amnesty Only. Otherwise appears 13 month overstay. coinciding with the shock cancer diagnosis though so some possible mitigation there……Ideally needs a top Immi. Lawyer / Agent to best present case to Immi. Do Not go to Immi. without prior Lawyer Declaration and Lawyer Present. He must now Declare to Immi. to avoid possible Jail if Caught Undeclared.

Hmmm....what does that mean? Maybe you should just go to the ATM one more time.

[asiam110]

In for a penny in for a pound, no point panicking now if already on 1yr+ overstay, he might as well stay under the radar now, and focus on his treatment and recovery,  hopefully hospital is oblivious to it - presume government hospital and somehow paying for it so they're unlikely to make a fuss.. When he does recover though he'll have to make a choice of continuing under the radar (with that risk over your head from rest of life) or leaving thailand with a ban..  Hope your friend gets better..

The lawyer idea I doubt is feasible if destitute. They don't work probono in Thailand

Edited November 9, 2021 by asiam110

[bangkokbonecollector]

Whatever your friend ends up doing, I think getting a medical note from a Dr that he indeed has cancer will go a long way in possibly helping him get out of the country without financial burden. If it is stage 3 then surely that is classed as an emergency and he needs to get back to straya for treatment forthwith. I am sure the straya embassy could help in ensuring that Immigration go easy on him. The key is having the proof that he indeed does have cancer so I would do that first, then contact his embassy and then they or he can arrange some sort of amnesty.

 

Chok dee to your friend, hope he is better soon.

Edited November 9, 2021 by bangkokbonecollector

[jackdd]

1 hour ago, WhiteBuffaloATM said:

its obvious. unless you think running around undeclared forever is better.

its one or the other. 

If you officially declare yourself as being on overstay (=surrender to police), immigration police would have to arrest you and send you to IDC to have you deported.

Luckily immigration is lazy, and in this case they would simply tell the person to head to the airport and leave Thailand, without making it official.

Your advice is just wrong, and OP's friend could potentially end up in IDC where he might die considering his condition. Stop giving such bad advice.

[WhiteBuffaloATM]

1 minute ago, jackdd said:

If you officially declare yourself as being on overstay (=surrender to police), immigration police would have to arrest you and send you to IDC to have you deported.

Luckily immigration is lazy, and in this case they would simply tell the person to head to the airport and leave Thailand, without making it official.

Your advice is just wrong, and OP's friend could potentially end up in IDC where he might die considering his condition. Stop giving such bad advice.

you have not been paying attention. recommending lawyer is hardly bad advice. police surrender is your daft idea.just leave at the airport ? with 400 day overstay ? without arrest / jail / deportation/ five year ban ? if that’s possible, everybody could overstay as no need for visa extentions, reporting or any local immigration at all. stop talking nonsense. 

[asiam110]

11 minutes ago, WhiteBuffaloATM said:

you have not been paying attention. recommending lawyer is hardly bad advice. police surrender is your daft idea.just leave at the airport ? with 400 day overstay ? without arrest / jail / deportation/ five year ban ? if that’s possible, everybody could overstay as no need for visa extentions, reporting or any local immigration at all. stop talking nonsense. 

Recommending a lawyer to someone who is destitute is certainly impractical, that's similar suggesting to a beggar they should eat wholesome certified organic food.

 

Just leave at the airport is often the best advice, and has been consistent for years. There is no arrest or jail for those arriving at the airport ready to go with a long overstay, people leave with multi-year overstays all the time, it's a formality, 20k fine, some form filling and nowadays likely a 5year ban, shame it wasn't under a year as only a year ban then.

 

A potential question is if there is any discretion in applying the 5 year ban if he argues the case about being unable due to cancer to consider the circumstance in full mind (the drugs for cancer and chemo have very toxic effect on the mind - ive seen this before - people are certainly not themselves), however this is something to be considered after treatment imo if he's already this far down the road

Edited November 9, 2021 by asiam110

[BritTim]

2 hours ago, asiam110 said:

A potential question is if there is any discretion in applying the 5 year ban if he argues the case about being unable due to cancer to consider the circumstance in full mind (the drugs for cancer and chemo have very toxic effect on the mind - ive seen this before - people are certainly not themselves), however this is something to be considered after treatment imo if he's already this far down the road

In theory, an official of the appropriate rank does have the ability to reduce or waive the blacklisting. However, the chance of this at Suvarnabhumi without the use of an intermediary with a very fat brown envelope is nil. It has apparently been known for someone leaving through U-Tapao to have the blacklisting waived by sympathetic officials without the payment of any special fees.

[The Hammer2021]

3 hours ago, bangkokbonecollector said:

Whatever your friend ends up doing, I think getting a medical note from a Dr that he indeed has cancer will go a long way in possibly helping him get out of the country without financial burden. If it is stage 3 then surely that is classed as an emergency and he needs to get back to straya for treatment forthwith. I am sure the straya embassy could help in ensuring that Immigration go easy on him. The key is having the proof that he indeed does have cancer so I would do that first, then contact his embassy and then they or he can arrange some sort of amnesty.

 

Chok dee to your friend, hope he is better soon.

I would like to think his medical condition will generate extenuating circumstances

[bangkokbonecollector]

21 minutes ago, The Hammer2021 said:

I would like to think his medical condition will generate extenuating circumstances

Agreed but when it comes to the Thai Immi being short changed, all bets are off.

[Outbackoz]

As mentioned in previous responses his best bet at this point in time is to contact a reputable  immigration lawyer to explore exactly what options are available and how best to deal with his current circumstance. The downside risk being once the issue is raised with immigration the clock will be literally ticking as to future outcomes. Would suggest whatever decision he arrives at in dealing with this issue he keeps his passport handy and the contact details of an immigration lawyer along with the phone number for Consular Section at the Australian Embassy. I can only wish the best for his future prognosis in dealing with this insidious disease