U.S. Topic -- Predictions for the Kyle Rittenhouse Trial?

[cmarshall]

8 hours ago, BuckAurelius said:

That's certainly the contention of the prosecutors now that their original narrative was contradicted by their own witnesses. And what evidence do they base it on? A capture from a drone video, so garbled and hyper-pixelated you can barely make out the figure of Rittenhouse as even humanoid, let alone where he might be pointing his gun. Hence the need to "enhance" the pic. It doesn't take much to convince the already convinced, apparently. 

That's right.  My presumption that a seventeen year old, who has illegally obtained an assault weapon and travelled across state lines is already deeply in the wrong and should be punished to the full extent of the law.  Then his shooting three people killing two pretty much solidifies my view of him as a dangerous criminal.  He found the trouble he went looking for.

[cmarshall]

5 hours ago, Jingthing said:

OK, as this started as a prediction of verdicts topic, now that we are into the second day of the jury deliberating, how about predictions for how many days they take to deliver their verdicts? Today? Tomorrow? Next week? 

The longer the deliberation the more likely that the jury is hung as they try get some holdouts to flip to the majority.  

 

I say verdict on day three, otherwise hung.

[Jeffr2]

Seems Kyle has a problem telling the truth.  Even under oath.

 

https://www.nytimes.com/live/2021/11/17/us/kyle-rittenhouse-trial

As he testified in his homicide trial in Kenosha, Wis., last week, Kyle Rittenhouse was consistent over hours of questioning: He said he had gone to the city amid the civil unrest there last year to provide medical assistance and extinguish fires.

 

Video images taken of Mr. Rittenhouse as he wandered the streets of Kenosha on the evening of the shooting show him describing himself as an emergency medical technician; he was not an E.M.T., though he was a certified lifeguard with some basic medical training.

 

On the witness stand, he said that he was studying nursing at Arizona State University

[Jeffr2]

Nutters still trying to cause problems. 

 

https://www.nytimes.com/live/2021/11/17/us/kyle-rittenhouse-trial#outside-the-kenosha-courthouse-the-police-ask-a-man-to-put-away-his-rifle

As jurors deliberated for a second day in the homicide trial of Kyle Rittenhouse on Wednesday, small groups of Mr. Rittenhouse’s supporters and detractors gathered on the steps of the Kenosha County courthouse.

 

Among the regular fixtures there during the trial was a man who walked around with a dog and a bullhorn, shouting that Black Lives Matter was a “terrorist organization.” On Wednesday, though, instead of the dog, he had a rifle that he carried as he walked around the courthouse.

[bbko]

The guy who killed two claimed he was there to defend his friend's property, and according to the know it alls here he wasn't patrolling the streets, my question is: has it evidence shown there even was a friend asking for defensive help? And as far as location, when the first killing happened how far/near were they from the alleged friend's property?

[Jeffr2]

12 hours ago, BuckAurelius said:

I actually wouldn't. The "nutters" tend to obey the law, as a matter of principle, in fact are quite devoted to it--hence they support the police and think that burning down small businesses is an objectionable thing to do. You might want to re-watch some of the video footage. It ain't the dudes in tactical gear destroying the city, is it? 

I'm not trying to support those who rioted.  Far from it.  They broke the law and should pay the price.  But a 17 year old crossing state lines, carrying a war weapon, with ZIP training, isn't right either.  Especially as he's shot and killed several people.  He needs to pay for his actions also.  Which IMHO, are far worse than burning a building.  IMHO. 

[Jeffr2]

4 hours ago, bbko said:

The guy who killed two claimed he was there to defend his friend's property, and according to the know it alls here he wasn't patrolling the streets, my question is: has it evidence shown there even was a friend asking for defensive help? And as far as location, when the first killing happened how far/near were they from the alleged friend's property?

Another lie. Hopefully, he'll at least be charged with perjury.

 

https://www.jsonline.com/story/news/crime/2021/11/05/kenosha-car-lot-owners-didnt-ask-kyle-rittenhouse-protect-property/6298822001/

Car shop owners deny asking Rittenhouse, armed men to protect their property during unrest

Two brothers whose family owns three car lots downtown told jurors in Kyle Rittenhouse's homicide trial they never asked his group of armed men to protect their businesses or gave them permission to do so.

 

Some from that group have previously testified a friend of a friend of Rittenhouse's who used to work at Car Source had offered to help, and Anmol "Sam" Khindri accepted, and gave keys to get inside the repair shop and a ladder to get on the roof.

 

Khindri told jurors Friday he had no such conversations, nor did he offer keys to the shop.  

[Heng]

At the very least it wasn't a race based shooting, so hopefully no riots and looting from the outcome of the trial.  

[BuckAurelius]

2 hours ago, Jeffr2 said:

I'm not trying to support those who rioted.  Far from it.  They broke the law and should pay the price.  But a 17 year old crossing state lines, carrying a war weapon, with ZIP training, isn't right either.  Especially as he's shot and killed several people.  He needs to pay for his actions also.  Which IMHO, are far worse than burning a building.  IMHO. 

You and others continue to repeat the patent falsehood that Rittenhouse crossed state lines with a weapon. Get your facts straight. Incidentally, and not that it matters, but Rittenhouse lived less than a thirty minute drive from Kenosha, he worked in Kenosha, his father lived in Kenosha. The media coverage of this evident has been so skewed that there are still people on Twitter and Facebook who believe the victims were black--months after the incident.  

[Mac Mickmanus]

3 minutes ago, Heng said:

At the very least it wasn't a race based shooting, so hopefully no riots and looting from the outcome of the trial.  

They wont need much of an excuse to go on the rampage again 

[Jeffr2]

2 minutes ago, BuckAurelius said:

You and others continue to repeat the patent falsehood that Rittenhouse crossed state lines with a weapon. Get your facts straight. Incidentally, and not that it matters, but Rittenhouse lived less than a thirty minute drive from Kenosha, he worked in Kenosha, his father lived in Kenosha. The media coverage of this evident has been so skewed that there are still people on Twitter and Facebook who believe the victims were black--months after the incident.  

Where did I say he crossed state lines WITH a gun?  Nowhere.  There were numerous requests on social media for right wing nutters to come and battle the protesters.  They just added fuel to the fire.  And in the end, a few died and Kyle's life was ruined.

 

I don't pay any attention to Twitter, Facebook or any social media sites.  None.  Just reputable news outlets.

[Jeffr2]

2 minutes ago, Mac Mickmanus said:

They wont need much of an excuse to go on the rampage again 

Yeah.  I just posted a pic of a nutter outside the courthouse right now with a bullet proof vest and an assault rifle. 

[EVENKEEL]

7 minutes ago, Heng said:

At the very least it wasn't a race based shooting, so hopefully no riots and looting from the outcome of the trial.  

You would think that, but I predict the radical left won't let a chance of looting and burning go to waste.

Hopefully the troops will squash the riots before they begin.

[BuckAurelius]

4 minutes ago, Jeffr2 said:

Where did I say he crossed state lines WITH a gun?  Nowhere.  There were numerous requests on social media for right wing nutters to come and battle the protesters.  They just added fuel to the fire.  And in the end, a few died and Kyle's life was ruined.

 

I don't pay any attention to Twitter, Facebook or any social media sites.  None.  Just reputable news outlets.

"a 17 year old crossing state lines, carrying a war weapon"--either you're implying that he crossed state lines with a weapon, as others have claimed, or you need to work on your English diction. The people on Twitter and Facebook, who are under these delusions, are likely getting their news from these same "reputable news outlets" as you are. 

[Jeffr2]

2 minutes ago, Mac Mickmanus said:

Another "nutter" , why have you labelled this guy as a "nutter" or is anyone who disagrees with you a "nutter" ?

Look at the pic.  From my link above.  A true nutter.  Hard to argue he isn't.

 

Among the regular fixtures there during the trial was a man who walked around with a dog and a bullhorn, shouting that Black Lives Matter was a “terrorist organization.” On Wednesday, though, instead of the dog, he had a rifle that he carried as he walked around the courthouse.

 

The man, who declined to speak with reporters and gave his name only as “Maserati Mike,” was also wearing what appeared to be a bulletproof vest and a bow tie.

[Jeffr2]

1 minute ago, BuckAurelius said:

"a 17 year old crossing state lines, carrying a war weapon"--either you're implying that he crossed state lines with a weapon, as others have claimed, or you need to work on your English diction. The people on Twitter and Facebook, who are under these delusions, are likely getting their news from these same "reputable news outlets" as you are. 

Ummm...there was a comma.  Sorry you are "assuming" I meant he crossed state lines with a gun.  Just meant to say he crossed state lines and then was seen carrying a gun during the protests.

 

Happy now?  Personal attacks aren't needed here.

[mikebike]

1 minute ago, Mac Mickmanus said:

Another "nutter" , why have you labelled this guy as a "nutter" or is anyone who disagrees with you a "nutter" ?

Not many situations where I wouldn't consider a random citizen outside a courthouse armed, vested and screaming into the ether a nutter.

 

 

[Jeffr2]

Just now, mikebike said:

Not many situations where I wouldn't consider a random citizen outside a courthouse armed, vested and screaming into the ether a nutter.

 

 

And calling himself Maserati Mike. ????

[cmarshall]

30 minutes ago, BuckAurelius said:

Once again, the McMichaels case has nothing to do with the Rittenhouse case, nor do American gun laws. Either you people don't know the facts of the case or you're in willful denial of them. 

Gun nuts are a lot alike,.  Both of these guys were vigilantes who committed assault and killed someone. 

[Mac Mickmanus]

4 minutes ago, mikebike said:

Not many situations where I wouldn't consider a random citizen outside a courthouse armed, vested and screaming into the ether a nutter.

 

 

How about all the people standing and shouting outside the Court shouting about Kyle should be found guilty , are those people "nutters" as well ?

[Jeffr2]

Just now, Mac Mickmanus said:

How about all the people standing and shouting outside the Court shouting about Kyle should be found guilty , are those people "nutters" as well ?

Perhaps.  But they aren't referring to themselves with a stupid name, carrying a war weapon and wearing body armor.  Get the difference.  The US does offer freedom of speech. 

[bbko]

1 minute ago, Mac Mickmanus said:

How about all the people standing and shouting outside the Court shouting about Kyle should be found guilty , are those people "nutters" as well ?

If those outside the courthouse shouting the killer should be found guilty are also wearing tactical gear, bullet proof vest and carrying AR 15s, then yeah, they're nutty,  citizens arming up for battle is what's wrong with America today.

[Jeffr2]

Just now, bbko said:

If those outside the courthouse shouting the killer should be found guilty are also wearing tactical gear, bullet proof vest and carrying AR 15s, then yeah, they're nutty,  citizens arming up for battle is what's wrong with America today.

Peaceful protests are what America's all about.  Freedom of peaceful assembly and speech.  Showing up to something like this literally armed for war is beyond ridiculous.  And for sure, show's what's wrong with America today.  It's becoming more violent.

[Mac Mickmanus]

1 minute ago, ozimoron said:

You mean someone who goes to a courthouse wearing a bulletproof vest and carrying a semi automatic rifle is somehow not a nutter?

The is the possibility that some other real nutter may try and shoot him , so hes taken measures to protect himself . 

   He may look like a nutter , but real nutters out there may go nutty and attack him with war weapons or a knife , so hes protecting himself from real nutters

[Walker88]

Two points....who the heck is this 17 year old that thinks he's skilled enough to:  go to a protest in another State and determine who is a rioter and who is merely exercising First Amendment rights, and then thinks he's skilled enough with an AR-15 to use it merely to stop violence or protest himself, without hurting any innocents?

 

2nd point: At least some of the people who rushed a gun wielding and using an AR-15 (30 round mag of 5.56 NATO with a muzzle velocity of 3200fps, which makes it energy (killing power) about 4 times a .45CAP handgun or 3 times a 9mm shot from a handgun) did so without being armed themselves. Such people would have made good school cops at a place like Parkland. If one has shot an AR-15 or heard it in action, it is difficult to ignore the effect. It takes pretty big cojones to dare to go at someone so armed.

 

My opinion is the kid is a hero wannabe and was messed up well before he took to killing people, and will be messed up even more after. His mom claims that "he wouldn't be alive today is he hadn't defended himself" (which may or may not be true, but it is ABSOLUTELY CERTAIN that if he had stayed home in Indiana and let TRAINED police do the job for which the taxpayer pays them, he wouldn't be on trial now and facing jail.

 

In my opinion he is a perfect example of much that is wrong with the US now, and which shows no signs of getting better.....only worse.

[BuckAurelius]

Just now, Jeffr2 said:

Peaceful protests are what America's all about.  Freedom of peaceful assembly and speech.  Showing up to something like this literally armed for war is beyond ridiculous.  And for sure, show's what's wrong with America today.  It's becoming more violent.

"Peaceful protests are what America's all about." I agree. The problem is, these protests, such that happened in Kenosha, haven't exactly been peaceful, have they? Anyway, American gun laws aren't on trial here, Rittenhouse is. So why not examine the facts of the case instead? 

[ozimoron]

2 minutes ago, BuckAurelius said:

"Peaceful protests are what America's all about." I agree. The problem is, these protests, such that happened in Kenosha, haven't exactly been peaceful, have they? Anyway, American gun laws aren't on trial here, Rittenhouse is. So why not examine the facts of the case instead? 

The outcome of this trial will undoubtedly have some bearing on the conversation about gun laws going forward so it is relevant.

[Jeffr2]

4 minutes ago, BuckAurelius said:

"Peaceful protests are what America's all about." I agree. The problem is, these protests, such that happened in Kenosha, haven't exactly been peaceful, have they? Anyway, American gun laws aren't on trial here, Rittenhouse is. So why not examine the facts of the case instead? 

Agreed.  But having armed, untrained, civilian militias show up to go into battle isn't the answer.  It's what caused Kyle to kill people.  Let law enforcement handle it. 

[BuckAurelius]

1 minute ago, Walker88 said:

Two points....who the heck is this 17 year old that thinks he's skilled enough to:  go to a protest in another State and determine who is a rioter and who is merely exercising First Amendment rights, and then thinks he's skilled enough with an AR-15 to use it merely to stop violence or protest himself, without hurting any innocents?

 

2nd point: At least some of the people who rushed a gun wielding and using an AR-15 (30 round mag of 5.56 NATO with a muzzle velocity of 3200fps, which makes it energy (killing power) about 4 times a .45CAP handgun or 3 times a 9mm shot from a handgun) did so without being armed themselves. Such people would have made good school cops at a place like Parkland. If one has shot an AR-15 or heard it in action, it is difficult to ignore the effect. It takes pretty big cojones to dare to go at someone so armed.

 

My opinion is the kid is a hero wannabe and was messed up well before he took to killing people, and will be messed up even more after. His mom claims that "he wouldn't be alive today is he hadn't defended himself" (which may or may not be true, but it is ABSOLUTELY CERTAIN that if he had stayed home in Indiana and let TRAINED police do the job for which the taxpayer pays them, he wouldn't be on trial now and facing jail.

 

In my opinion he is a perfect example of much that is wrong with the US now, and which shows no signs of getting better.....only worse.

The problem is precisely that the "TRAINED police" are NOT doing their jobs, as Kenosha is proof positive, thanks to activist mayors who'd rather see their cities burned to the ground than stand up to the likes of the BLM. Only now is the National Guard being deployed--rather belatedly, to put it mildly. This whole sorry incident could have been avoided if the politicians had taken measures in the first place to protect these neighborhoods. But they abandoned them to the mob to score cheap political points. These are not just buildings burning, they're people's livelihoods. 

[ozimoron]

1 minute ago, BuckAurelius said:

The problem is precisely that the "TRAINED police" are NOT doing their jobs, as Kenosha is proof positive, thanks to activist mayors who'd rather see their cities burned to the ground than stand up to the likes of the BLM. Only now is the National Guard being deployed--rather belatedly, to put it mildly. This whole sorry incident could have been avoided if the politicians had taken measures in the first place to protect these neighborhoods. But they abandoned them to the mob to score cheap political points. These are not just buildings burning, they're people's livelihoods. 

What do you suggest? Machine gun protesters in the street? How do they pick out the arsonists from those among them who are peacefully protesting?