Damp wall from neighbour's garden soil!

[stubuzz]

Just made it back to Thailand and got to our new property. As many owners do, The back area has been made into a kitchen, but the first 1ft of wall is damp. When I walked round the back to see what the problem is, I saw the the neighbor has a raised garden that is touching our back wall. No body is home at the moment but how should I approach this problem?

[timendres]

The solution is a plastic barrier in the raised garden at the wall, which would have been best installed at the beginning. Politely show them the dampness, and suggest it could weaken the wall causing problems for both sides. Maybe adding the barrier now is still not too difficult. Offering to pay for the plastic would show some good will.

[stubuzz]

I agree a plastic barrier or a 6 inch trench should be dug to move the soil off our wall. I will offer some sort of monetary incentive, but the neighbor's house is much bigger and expensive than mine. 

[KhaoYai]

The question is, who owns the wall?  If I understand you correctly its part of your house and therefore its yours.  So legally your neighbour is responsible but as has been suggested, there are ways of dealing with it that will avoid conflict. As you will know - discussing it with a smile is one of those ways. Your neighbour probably has no idea that placing soil as they have would cause this problem - many don't.

 

Any plastic barrier would need to go down beyond the depth of the wall by the way.

 

A much better solution, if at all possible is for the soil to be graded back - sloping down towards the wall. 

Edited November 20, 2021 by KhaoYai

[itsari]

If you build a kitchen up against the boundary wall you are asking for problems . 

The best you can do is ask your neighbors politely to take away the soil they have placed against the boundary wall.

[Isan Farang]

21 minutes ago, stubuzz said:

I agree a plastic barrier or a 6 inch trench should be dug to move the soil off our wall. I will offer some sort of monetary incentive, but the neighbor's house is much bigger and expensive than mine. 

If you wish to call it your wall you may need to build a new wall in your land against the existing wall, some house beside me had a similar issue and the office told them the dividing wall was owned by both land owners. 

[connda]

1 hour ago, stubuzz said:

When I walked round the back to see what the problem is, I saw the the neighbor has a raised garden that is touching our back wall. No body is home at the moment but how should I approach this problem?

Build a raised garden.

[sirineou]

We had exactly the same problem. We came back after a long time away and we found that the neighbor had backfilled his property one third up out two meter wall., to the point where we had to build up our wall with metal and serra wood, so we would not have to look at them,  

 Nothing much can be done other than as suggested by other, dig it up on your neighbors side and put a phasic barrier. Lucky for us the wall was very well made, and the moisture problem is only present during the wet season, so I paint that side every year.  

[bbko]

As asked by @KhaoYai, who owns the wall?  If it's the other person's then they're free to do what they want, if it's your wall you should ask the other person if they make their side water proof/resistant as their raised garden is damaging your side.  

In reality there should be two walls dividing your properties, one wall within your area and one wall within theirs.

Edited November 20, 2021 by bbko

[steven100]

have the missus handle it .....    don't get involved

[JensenZ]

17 minutes ago, steven100 said:

have the missus handle it .....    don't get involved

That will probably getting nothing done at all. Being Thai they may ignore her or politely tell her to quit making trouble.

[blackcab]

Backfilling a property with soil is a common practice, and issues such as this arise from time to time.

 

The first thing to understand is that you are not allowed to make a permanent construction such as a kitchen within 50 centimetres of your boundary wall. This puts you on the back foot as you state the area has been turned into a kitchen.

 

The second issue is that your neighbour is allowed to backfill the entirety of his land. If the boundary wall is shared between your property then it will be up to both of you to decide a reasonable course of action.

 

Such action might be a plastic barrier membrane installed at your expense.

 

The only way to stop an action like this is to build your boundary wall a few centimetres inside the true boundary of your property, thereby leaving an "air gap" between your boundary wall and the curtilage of your neighbour's property. This air gap could not be filled as it belongs to you.

 

What I would strongly suggest you do not do is get into any kind of a dispute about this. Boundary issues make lawyers salivate more than a free steak dinner, especially when the answer is not clear cut.

 

You might also consider the cost of installing a thin interior wall with an air gap inside your kitchen. It might be cheaper than the external membrane. For example, leave an air gap, then build a thin half-height wall and fit a shelf/ledge on top of the new wall. Just a suggestion.

[stubuzz]

I will post a picture in the morning.

[steven100]

get a D10 in and rip the whole f*__^ *g thing out and then go after the expensive house ... tell them you don't want neighbours

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited November 20, 2021 by steven100

[AhFarangJa]

In the U.K. many moons ago we had a similar problem due to the land level of the adjacent property being higher. this was an old property with thick walls too. What we did was called "Tank" the wall, which is often done in basements. You scrape off any loose paint and dirt, then apply a thick bitumen coat which holds back the moisture. the only downside is you have to use oil based paints to cover it, or as someone suggested build another wall with a 2cm cavity.

[Jumbo1968]

Similar problem in the U.K., the land behind had slipped over the years, there was an ingress of water. I did try and tank the wall but once dampness appears the tanking didn’t work. I built a breeze block with a cavity which I filled with concrete, ok I lost about 8 inches of the property but solved the problem.

[tandor]

17 hours ago, stubuzz said:

I agree a plastic barrier or a 6 inch trench should be dug to move the soil off our wall. I will offer some sort of monetary incentive, but the neighbor's house is much bigger and expensive than mine. 

...his side of the boundary wall is his to do what he likes with it..IMHO

[chilly07]

You can get waterproof plaster from most diy shops and in our case it has worked well. Both sides have built up to the boundary with 2 walls and 2 sets of gutters but in a downpour gutters overflow.

[MrBanks]

If you cannot come to an arrangement with your neighbour, there might be a way to stop the dampness from your side.

I had a similar problem with a house in Cyprus, only the adjacent property was owned by 8 different family members who were all fighting each other and I could not get any sense out of them.

I found a company called Sika who make damp proofing and have various solutions for differing problems.
A quick google of Sika shows that some of their products are on Lazada.

I think that you can email Sika, tell them your problem and then they offer advice.

Worked for us, damp problem solved, property sold!

Good luck.

[RocketDog]

57 minutes ago, MrBanks said:

If you cannot come to an arrangement with your neighbour, there might be a way to stop the dampness from your side.

I had a similar problem with a house in Cyprus, only the adjacent property was owned by 8 different family members who were all fighting each other and I could not get any sense out of them.

I found a company called Sika who make damp proofing and have various solutions for differing problems.
A quick google of Sika shows that some of their products are on Lazada.

I think that you can email Sika, tell them your problem and then they offer advice.

Worked for us, damp problem solved, property sold!

Good luck.

Great tip. I found multiple products on Lazada.

Thanks

 

[Speedhump]

18 hours ago, blackcab said:

Backfilling a property with soil is a common practice, and issues such as this arise from time to time.

 

The first thing to understand is that you are not allowed to make a permanent construction such as a kitchen within 50 centimetres of your boundary wall. This puts you on the back foot as you state the area has been turned into a kitchen.

 

The second issue is that your neighbour is allowed to backfill the entirety of his land. If the boundary wall is shared between your property then it will be up to both of you to decide a reasonable course of action.

 

Such action might be a plastic barrier membrane installed at your expense.

 

The only way to stop an action like this is to build your boundary wall a few centimetres inside the true boundary of your property, thereby leaving an "air gap" between your boundary wall and the curtilage of your neighbour's property. This air gap could not be filled as it belongs to you.

 

What I would strongly suggest you do not do is get into any kind of a dispute about this. Boundary issues make lawyers salivate more than a free steak dinner, especially when the answer is not clear cut.

 

You might also consider the cost of installing a thin interior wall with an air gap inside your kitchen. It might be cheaper than the external membrane. For example, leave an air gap, then build a thin half-height wall and fit a shelf/ledge on top of the new wall. Just a suggestion.

I have been told by builders and others that 1 metre is the minimum distance between permanent structures and boundaries (excepting standing boundary walls). 

[Retdent]

Like this?

[JBChiangRai]

There's another issue here, presumably your kitchen has a roof?, you're not allowed to have any rain run-off onto your neighbours property, that probably means you need a gutter installing with a downpipe.  The gutter must at no point be vertically over your neighbours land or you're trespassing.  So the gutter has to be set back onto your land, the roof and wall must be inset from the boundary wall, you need to build another wall.  In other words, you can't use a boundary wall as an inside wall for your kitchen.

[Retdent]

9 hours ago, steven100 said:

get a D10 in and rip the whole f*__^ *g thing out and then go after the expensive house ... tell them you don't want neighbours

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[KhaoYai]

20 hours ago, blackcab said:

The second issue is that your neighbour is allowed to backfill the entirety of his land. If the boundary wall is shared between your property then it will be up to both of you to decide a reasonable course of action.

Yes, this back-filling or raising can cause so many problems - my wife's neighbour (her sister!!!) raised the land at the back of her house to build a new house on. Now, when there's heavy rain, my wife's house floods!!  Fortunately there's a pond (also in family ownership) within 30 meters of both properties so I'm going to have to put a drain in next year to solve the problem - something her sister could have done in the first place instead of raising the land.

 

The OP hasn't said whether this wall is a boundary wall or not.  If the wall in question is part of his house as it sounds to be then it was a mistake to build it right up to and forming the boundary - if that is the case.  Without seeing plans and photos to understand the exact location, it may well be that the only permanent solution is to drop the wall completely and move it back.

 

He could have an understanding neighbour that grades the land back and solves the problem but what happens if the neighbour sells the house - could the problem return?

 

The rules that blackcab refers to later in his post exist to prevent these kind of problems, I wasn't aware that they exist in Thailand but they are common in many countries.  Many older houses are built in this way to utilise limited space - especially in urban areas, they are often the source of problems and disputes - hence the rules.  Problems can be even worse in 'terraced' properties where dividing walls belong to both properties - party walls. In the UK we have an entire act - The Party Wall Act that attempts to deal with the issues raised by shared ownership.

[pacovl46]

Getting the soil off the wall would be step 1, then you need to let the wall dry out completely, after that you can paint the wall with dry-lock paint, after that the soil can go back, but I wouldn’t recommend it. Some sort of drainage would be nice as well.

[Aussieroaming]

I was house hunting last year in Korat and nearly every home I went to had water damage on the boundary walls because many constuction personnel don't routinely include damp proofing or proper water run off in the design and construction. Quite a put off when you see the manky condition of some of these walls.

 

Why not invite your neighbours over for a BBQ and casually show them the issue while they are there. Maybe your neighbours are nice people who might be responsive to issues if you've gotten to know them. If you do convince them to install the moisture barrier then install some ag pipe and coarse gravel at the base as well and that will pull a lot of water away from the wall.

 

I have always thought that boundary fences are 50:50 ownership, hence why sometimes the instal costs are shared between both parties. Just because you paid the instal costs doesn't give you any rights over what your neighbor does on his side, hence a friendly relationship helps when issues need to be resolved. 

 

Good luck with it, I really dislike the rising damp look on those concrete walls.

 

 

 

 

[brianthainess]

On 11/20/2021 at 8:20 PM, blackcab said:

The first thing to understand is that you are not allowed to make a permanent construction such as a kitchen within 50 centimetres of your boundary wall.

Where I am you must leave a 2 METER gap between property and boundary, this does not include roof overhang and I thought that was common everywhere 1/2 a mt are you sure about that ?

[blackcab]

30 minutes ago, brianthainess said:

Where I am you must leave a 2 METER gap between property and boundary, this does not include roof overhang and I thought that was common everywhere 1/2 a mt are you sure about that ?

 

Apologies, I was in Bangkok mode when I write that. In Bangkok, Section 56 of the Bangkok Ordinance re Building Control B.E 2544 (2001) allows for a minimum gap between buildings of 50 centimetres.

 

Other provinces will differ. The starting point is the Building Control Act (1979), however each province can also be subject to a specific Ministerial Regulation.

 

It might well be that in one province the distance to boundary can be 2 meters and in another province the distance will be 1 meter. I doubt it will surprise anyone reading this that there is a complete lack of consistency across provinces in regard to this.

 

The closest the gap can be, however, is 50 centimetres. Any closer requires written consent of the other party.

[Kenneth White]

Where does good old common sense figure in to this? I have this same problem here however my neighbor to the left is my sister-n-law. I brought this up to my wife and asked her to talk with her sister, I don't speak Thai, but very little. Since this started my wife has not said a word and it has been at least a year. On the other side of the property the neighbor is a builder and they have raised their property and constructed two bulk heads to deal with the water drainage; now that is common sense and knowledge. There are many remedies to this but they need to be done at the start of the project.