Travelling in Thailand as unvaccinated resident

[prchunter]

I realize you are probably immune from previously contracting COVID.  Unfortunately, in the current climate it will be extremely difficult to travel around considering most check points request a proof of double vax which you don't have.  It's simpler to just get the jabs then travel, that way you have your papers in order if you need them.  Think of the double vax certificate as the new passport for the post covid era.  

[Lizzy Duang]

3 hours ago, Tony125 said:

Here's a newerstudy, need  to keep up with the latest news.

 

Natural immunity doesn’t protect you as well as the Covid vaccines — here’s why

https://www.cnbc.com/2021/11/23/should-you-get-vaccinated-if-you-had-covid-natural-immunity-explained.html

 

It's been said that Dr.s advise a covid vaccine as  you may be immune to the strain that infected you but not the variants that the vaccines  are made to affect.

Current vaccines are based on the alpha variant. Those docs don't understand T-cell and B-cell response. There are good videos that explain it.

[Lizzy Duang]

1 hour ago, prchunter said:

I realize you are probably immune from previously contracting COVID.  Unfortunately, in the current climate it will be extremely difficult to travel around considering most check points request a proof of double vax which you don't have.  It's simpler to just get the jabs then travel, that way you have your papers in order if you need them.  Think of the double vax certificate as the new passport for the post covid era.  

I expected that. The point is that checkpoints seem to be rare.

[mtls2005]

6 hours ago, Lizzy Duang said:

The point is that checkpoints seem to be rare.

 

OK, are you now asking about traveling by private car or motorcycle? That's an entirely different question. You said you were traveling by train in your OP.

 

And where are you going? And when?

 

My personal long-haul driving experience (Bangkok-Phrae return, with several stops-side-trips) was zero vaccination check-points (October). This seems to be the norm - obviously there will be exceptions - but in some villages there may be a visit from health authorities for those coming from red-zones.

 

If you've truly contracted COVID and recovered then get that experience (tests, results, dates, treatments, quarantine) documented with the MoPH and you're good to go.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Kwasaki]

50 minutes ago, mtls2005 said:

 

OK, are you now asking about traveling by private car or motorcycle? That's an entirely different question. You said you were traveling by train in your OP.

 

And where are you going? And when?

 

My personal long-haul driving experience (Bangkok-Phrae return, with several stops-side-trips) was zero vaccination check-points (October). This seems to be the norm - obviously there will be exceptions - but in some villages there may be a visit from health authorities for those coming from red-zones.

 

If you've truly contracted COVID and recovered then get that experience (tests, results, dates, treatments, quarantine) documented with the MoPH and you're good to go.

What about some hotel checks.

You need to find hotels / G/Houses that will take un-vaxed another inconvenience.

[GroveHillWanderer]

On 11/25/2021 at 7:48 PM, Lizzy Duang said:

I am  immunized due to previous contact with the virus

Not according to the most typically-used meaning of the word. The WHO says that:

• Immunization is the process wherein a person is made immune or resistant to an infectious disease, typically by the administration of a vaccine.

Certainly, for the purposes of travel in Thailand, if you've not been vaccinated you're not considered to be immunized.

 

Also, scientifically it's not at all clear that a previous infection confers immunity. It depends on a number of different factors, including the severity of the illness you experienced.

 

As the article below states:

 

Quote

Some people who get COVID-19 receive no protection from reinfection – their natural immunity is nonexistent. A recent study found that 36% of COVID-19 cases didn't result in development of SARS-CoV-2 antibodies. The people had different levels of illness – most had moderate disease, but some were asymptomatic and some experienced severe COVID-19. 

 

"Vaccine-induced immunity is more predictable than natural immunity," says Dr. Rupp. The COVID-19 vaccines provide great protection from severe disease, hospitalization and death

Natural immunity vs vaccination

[prchunter]

There is an obvious disconnect between true immunity vs. Thailand perceived immunity.  Unfortunately, if you want to play in Thailand you gotta conform to the Thai perception of immunity.  Which means being double vaxed and having a certificate to prove this.  It's simply easier to travel in Thailand if you have the needed papers.  Not having this is simply more trouble then it's worth for most.  However, if the OP is up to the challenge more power to him.  We will all be interested if he's willing to share his trials and tribulations while travelling in LOS without this certification.

[Kwasaki]

29 minutes ago, prchunter said:

There is an obvious disconnect between true immunity vs. Thailand perceived immunity.  Unfortunately, if you want to play in Thailand you gotta conform to the Thai perception of immunity.  Which means being double vaxed and having a certificate to prove this.  It's simply easier to travel in Thailand if you have the needed papers.  Not having this is simply more trouble then it's worth for most.  However, if the OP is up to the challenge more power to him.  We will all be interested if he's willing to share his trials and tribulations while travelling in LOS without this certification.

I think it will be more of a smile from OP will work better than a him. ????

[Tony125]

11 hours ago, Lizzy Duang said:

Current vaccines are based on the alpha variant. Those docs don't understand T-cell and B-cell response. There are good videos that explain it.

I see you didn't bother to read the article that's one of the problems with people who have already made up their minds and don't want to hear conflicting information. The article explains about T cells and  how those who recovered from Covid were 5 times  more likely to catch it again than someone with vax.

[johng]

3 hours ago, GroveHillWanderer said:

Also, scientifically it's not at all clear that a previous infection confers immunity. It depends on a number of different factors, including the severity of the illness you experienced.

 

As the article below states:

Here is a very interesting study

https://www.nature.com/articles/s41467-020-19802-w?fbclid=IwAR0-RMOGRpCv6f6PLAxTjnw8-hNCLqmilbUFxMi2iSZEAefZem4PVBD_mK4

 

"

The citywide nucleic acid screening of SARS-CoV-2 infection in Wuhan recruited nearly 10 million people, and found no newly confirmed cases with COVID-19. The detection rate of asymptomatic positive cases was very low, and there was no evidence of transmission from asymptomatic positive persons to traced close contacts. There were no asymptomatic positive cases in 96.4% of the residential communities.

Previous studies have shown that asymptomatic individuals infected with SARS-CoV-2 virus were infectious³, and might subsequently become symptomatic⁴. Compared with symptomatic patients, asymptomatic infected persons generally have low quantity of viral loads and a short duration of viral shedding, which decrease the transmission risk of SARS-CoV-2⁵. In the present study, virus culture was carried out on samples from asymptomatic positive cases, and found no viable SARS-CoV-2 virus. All close contacts of the asymptomatic positive cases tested negative, indicating that the asymptomatic positive cases detected in this study were unlikely to be infectious.

There was a low repositive rate in recovered COVID-19 patients in Wuhan. Results of virus culturing and contract tracing found no evidence that repositive cases in recovered COVID-19 patients were infectious, which is consistent with evidence from other sources. A study in Korea found no confirmed COVID-19 cases by monitoring 790 contacts of 285 repositive cases⁶. The official surveillance of recovered COVID-19 patients in China also revealed no evidence on the infectiousness of repositive cases⁷. "

[johng]

3 hours ago, GroveHillWanderer said:

A recent study found that 36% of COVID-19 cases didn't result in development of SARS-CoV-2 antibodies.

If those cases didn't develop antibodies to the real thing  then why would they develop antibodies to the  the vaccine ?

[Tony125]

1 minute ago, johng said:

If those cases didn't develop antibodies to the real thing  then why would they develop antibodies to the  the vaccine ?

Because the vaccines were specifically made  to cause the body to defend agaisnt the Covid virus  AND their variants. That's why the vaccine works against the delta variant  as well as the original strain. Not quite as effective but still protects against all the variants so far.

[johng]

5 minutes ago, Tony125 said:

Because the vaccines were specifically made  to cause the body to defend agaisnt the Covid virus  AND their variants. That's why the vaccine works against the delta variant  as well as the original strain. Not quite as effective but still protects against all the variants so far.

Firstly when the vaccines where made they did not know about the variants, yes they knew it could/would mutate but not how it would mutate  so they can't have been

"specifically made  to cause the body to defend agaisnt the Covid virus  AND their variants"  ( well unless they did know how it would mutate but that would be a whole another story  )

 

Also  ( except for the Chinese one) as far as I understand the MRNA  vaccines  mimic only a small part of the real virus for the body to prepare defences to.

( only to that small portion)

but when the body encounters the real virus  it can  recognise that small part and all the other parts that constitute the whole virus and prepare multiple defences for next time it encounters the virus..while at the same time actively fighting the virus...yes it's good for the body to have a "heads up"  and a vaccine can give that "heads up"  unless/until the virus mutates in the small specific area that the vaccines where made to mimic...then it's time for another jab and/or newer vaccine.

 

 

 

[island coconut]

On 11/25/2021 at 8:16 PM, Lizzy Duang said:

That can perhaps be changed. But you might just accept the status quo. Which is different, by the way. Thais confirmed that one jab is okay, and foreigners have gone from Chonburi to BKK and checked in hotels without any questions. So it might be good to read more travel experiences than unsolicited advice.

 

"That perhaps can be changed". I wish I had 5 Baht for every time a visitor here thinks that they can "change" ANYTHING here with their Western ideas, logic, or personal narrative. I wish you the best of luck, but why the hell don't you just get the f*ckin' jabs and have one less thing to think about during your visit here? It sounds like you're just stirring up <deleted>, and creating hassles for yourself. 

[bkk6060]

Anyone not vaccinated should be banned.

[ifmu]

On 11/25/2021 at 7:48 PM, Lizzy Duang said:

I don't know how your second sentence is meant but it is useless to me. I am  immunized due to previous contact with the virus and thus have time to wait for newer vaccines like Novavax. The problem is that this immunization is not yet accepted as the gold standard. Therefore I just try to avoid the stupidity of common measures like PCR, quarantine for the healthy etc.

 

 

GET VACCINATED  DONT BE STUPID

[Tony125]

China study warns of 'colossal' COVID outbreak if it opens up like U.S., France

https://www.yahoo.com/news/china-study-warns-colossal-covid-043539475.html

 

So Thailand should not be looking for Chinese tourists for some time.

 

 

Vaccines alone are not enough to control COVID spread, WHO warns

https://www.yahoo.com/news/world-health-organization-vaccines-covid-coronavirus-190204654.html

 

Masks indoors and social distancing may still be necessary to slow/stop the spread.

[Tony125]

On 11/27/2021 at 2:43 PM, johng said:

Firstly when the vaccines where made they did not know about the variants, yes they knew it could/would mutate but not how it would mutate  so they can't have been

"specifically made  to cause the body to defend agaisnt the Covid virus  AND their variants"  ( well unless they did know how it would mutate but that would be a whole another story  )

 

Also  ( except for the Chinese one) as far as I understand the MRNA  vaccines  mimic only a small part of the real virus for the body to prepare defences to.

( only to that small portion)

but when the body encounters the real virus  it can  recognise that small part and all the other parts that constitute the whole virus and prepare multiple defences for next time it encounters the virus..while at the same time actively fighting the virus...yes it's good for the body to have a "heads up"  and a vaccine can give that "heads up"  unless/until the virus mutates in the small specific area that the vaccines where made to mimic...then it's time for another jab and/or newer vaccine.

 

 

 

Moderna to 'rapidly advance' omicron-specific COVID-19 booster candidate

https://news.yahoo.com/m/9cdc22f8-b2d3-3cc4-8545-67ba4971babd/moderna-to-rapidly-advance-.html

 

 

 

Super-Mutated Omicron Variant Reaches Three More European Countries

https://news.yahoo.com/dozens-flight-south-africa-infected-130719907.html

 

 

 

 

[Lizzy Duang]

On 11/27/2021 at 8:54 AM, mtls2005 said:

OK, are you now asking about traveling by private car

I meant checkpoints at the train or bus stations. How unfair then, if with a  car that could be stuffed with people or perhaps even a minibus there is a different policy. 

 

[Lizzy Duang]

20 hours ago, Why Me said:

Lordie, another anti-vax nitwit with access to the internet.

Wrong. I just wait for Novavax. It's simply not here yet but will come according to my doc.

[Lizzy Duang]

On 11/27/2021 at 5:02 PM, island coconut said:

why the hell don't you just get the f*ckin' jabs and

Because I believe there is strong enough evidence that the current vaccines will backfire. We will see, no one knows for sure. 

[Why Me]

1 hour ago, Lizzy Duang said:

Wrong. I just wait for Novavax. It's simply not here yet but will come according to my doc.

Just get the jab you can and stop playing cute.

[jackdd]

A problem with travelling unvaccinated is also simply the different enforcement of rules and that policies can change every day.

Maybe you take the train somewhere, and then a few days later you discover that at in this province (maybe even due to a recent policy change) they allow only vaccinated people to use the train or public transport in general. Then suddenly you are kinda stuck there.

[Lizzy Duang]

12 hours ago, Why Me said:

Just get the jab you can and stop playing cute.

You don't get it. I just told you what i do.

[Lizzy Duang]

As there was a lot of speculation but not much actual travel experience on the train, I called Thai Railways:

 

YOU DONT NEED ANY VACCINE CERTIFICATE TO USE ANY TRAIN RIGHT NOW.

 

The same goes for buses from RRC (Rong Reuang Coach) Pattaya to BKK ("our government does NOT require any documents"). So you can expect the same for other bus companies. Nor are seats in buses or trains limited because of COVID.

 

 

 

Edited November 29, 2021 by Lizzy Duang
Detailed

[Kwasaki]

6 minutes ago, Lizzy Duang said:

As there was a lot of speculation but not much actual travel experience on the train, I called Thai Railways:

 

YOU DONT NEED ANY VACCINE CERTIFICATE TO USE ANY TRAIN RIGHT NOW.

 

The same goes for buses from RRC (Rong Reuang Coach) Pattaya to BKK ("our government does NOT require any documents"). So you can expect the same for other bus companies. Nor are seats in buses or trains limited because of COVID.

 

I get the feeling Thai govt just wants to get on with business as usual.

I been told I can start drinking beer again in my Thais friends village restaurant from December 1st it's been nearly a year.

Enjoy your trip.

 

 

[Stocky]

On 11/25/2021 at 7:48 PM, Lizzy Duang said:

he problem is that this immunization is not yet accepted as the gold standard

Curious. My wife has had Covid, she was registered for vaccination but caught it before her vaccination date. She's been able to travel, this last week to see her parents in Prachuap (taking the train), the document she received from the hospital on being discharged, saying she'd had and recovered from Covid, was accepted when buying her ticket.

 

If you can prove you've had Covid that's acceptable for travel within Thailand.

[Stocky]

49 minutes ago, Lizzy Duang said:

YOU DONT NEED ANY VACCINE CERTIFICATE TO USE ANY TRAIN RIGHT NOW.

You certainly do if travelling out of Hat Yai which is a dark red zone. You need proof of vaccination, or a negative test, or a hospital note saying you've had it.

 

I think the provincial orders on travel trump whatever SRT may say.

 

.

Edited November 29, 2021 by Stocky

[GroveHillWanderer]

On 11/27/2021 at 1:59 PM, johng said:

If those cases didn't develop antibodies to the real thing  then why would they develop antibodies to the vaccine?

I think you'd probably have to look at each case individually to be sure, some might have compromised immune systems that wouldn't produce antibodies with the vaccine either.

 

However one explanation that's been given is that many of these people had a relatively low viral load and their body's innate immune system was sufficient to fight off the infection without the need to produce antigen-specific antibodies.

 

A vaccine is much, much more likely to generate antibodies because it delivers a massive dose of virus-like particles (VLP's) that has been carefully calculated to elicit the optimum immune response while not causing unacceptable systemic side effects (fever, inflammation etc). 

 

It's also what the phase 1 and 2 clinical trials the the vaccines have undergone, have shown to be the case - they have established that the vaccine reliably produces a robust immune response, in the overwhelming majority of people. If they didn't, they would not have gone on to phase 3 trials.

 

Just to give some numbers, it has been estimated that it is possible to get a CoVid-19 infection from as low an exposure as 1 - 3,000 viral particles. On the other hand, each dose of vaccine contains literally billions of VLP's (the AZ vaccine has 50 billion in a full dose).

 

Dose of coronavirus for infection

 

AstraZeneca phase 3 interim data

 

So while a relatively mild infection may not be enough to stimulate antibody production, a vaccine almost certainly will because that's what it was specifically designed to do.

Edited November 29, 2021 by GroveHillWanderer

[Lizzy Duang]

1 hour ago, Stocky said:

If you can prove you've had Covid that's acceptable for travel within Thailand.

Probably anywhere then. But in many parts you can travel without any COVID related documents, otherwise you couldnt take trains and buses. I guess that in those blue zones where they expect tourists no one will care.