Bank account beneficiary?

[JimmyJ]

1 hour ago, Tracyb said:

I added my Thai partner as my beneficiary on my 800k account at Bangkok Bank.  Filled out paperwork, they issued a new passbook with the same account number showing only my Na,e printed on the front page and then he signed the passbook in the back under my own signature where they are both only visible under a black light.  I’ve been using that passbook every year for my extensions of stay with no problem.

Are you positive all they did was make your partner the beneficiary?

 

I'd heard of this previously, and checked with both the person who handles foreign accounts and then with the branch manager at my branch of Bangkok Bank, and both said what you describe is making it a shared account but with your name still the sole name on the front page.

However, it is now a joint account and both the partner and you have control.

 

 

Edited November 26, 2021 by JimmyJ

[Moonlover]

1 hour ago, curtklay said:

I also have asked Kasikorn about appointing my stepdaughter as beneficiary to my 800K account, but can't get an answer. Someone said they can add a name to the passbook that is only visible under a blacklight, but I can't find out if that's true.

 

I think the best course of action is to visit a lawyer with my stepdaughter and have a Thai will drawn up. This doesn't concern my foreign holdings, only this single bank account. My Thai wife passed away, so my house and property are already owned by my stepdaughter, and I have a usufruct. I want her to have the fastest access to the account so she can pay for my final arrangements. Unless there is a way to appoint her as a beneficiary with the bank, I don't see any other way for her to access the account without my ATM card and PIN.

As I've mentioned above, you don't need a liar lawyer to write a will. Read about a foreigner making a Thai will here. Make sure you name your step daughter as executor.

[Surasak]

19 hours ago, HighPriority said:

Would a legal Will serve you better ?

I personally would doubt that. Just saying.

[Surasak]

8 hours ago, HAPPYNUFF said:

When I transferred  the   required   money I use  for    Visa extension purposes  from one bank  to another,,,at the  demand of an Immigration officer, who   claimed      my original  Thai bank was not  allowed for that purpose???,,   I   inquired about    that  cash   going to my wife , on my  demise.     Both her and I signed   countless documents,  far more  than usual  for  just simply opening an account as in the past.    They were all in Thai of course, but my wife  assured me  they were for the purpose  of her eventually   gaining the money.    I  also have a Thai will,   bequeathing   her   my Thai assets.  However, I believe   she will still need to file for probate with the court to eventually    be given  this money. 

"However, I believe   she will still need to file for probate with the court to eventually    be given  this money". 

 

In that you are correct, and it will cost money which comes out of your assets, so there will not be as much left for your wife as you may hope.

[Srikcir]

8 hours ago, JimmyJ said:

Handwritten unwitnessed unnotarized holographic wills are valid in some states in the USA.

Probate is handled in the US by the county where you tically would have a will executed. There is no state probate per se. Typically, the county is where you have material monetary (ie., bank accounts, credit cards and real estate assets). You need to contact the appropriate county for probate requirements. 

[Srikcir]

Just now, Srikcir said:

Probate is handled in the US by the county where you tically would have a will executed. There is no state probate per se. Typically, the county is where you have material monetary (ie., bank accounts, credit cards and real estate assets). You need to contact the appropriate county for probate requirements. 

"tically" s/b typically

[LukKrueng]

21 hours ago, bbko said:

Assuming you trust your wife enough, could you just attach a debit card to your account and give her the PIN or put it in a sealed envelope labeled "Only open after death"?

Using the atm to withdraw money from a dead person's account is illegal. The account must be frozen as soon as the bank gets notified of the death. If anyone uses the atm to withdraw before the bank is notified and later on it is found out, the person withdrawing the money can be procedures. 

 

2 hours ago, Tracyb said:

I added my Thai partner as my beneficiary on my 800k account at Bangkok Bank.  Filled out paperwork, they issued a new passbook with the same account number showing only my Na,e printed on the front page and then he signed the passbook in the back under my own signature where they are both only visible under a black light.  I’ve been using that passbook every year for my extensions of stay with no problem.

You actually added your partner as a signatory on the account, not a beneficiary. If you try to withdraw money at a branch using your passbook you'll actually need both signatures, not only 1.

[Pib]

28 minutes ago, LukKrueng said:

You actually added your partner as a signatory on the account, not a beneficiary. If you try to withdraw money at a branch using your passbook you'll actually need both signatures, not only 1.

Only if the signatory was added where "both" must sign which is not the norm.  The norm is either.  

 

I have my wife added as signatory to all my Bangkok Bank and Krungsri Bank accts which are owned by me only....when I withdraw money only my signature is needed....when the wife withdraws money only her signature is required.   

 

Approx 6 months ago when the wife added me as a signatory to her Bangkok Bank acct, the bank rep asked if whether it would be setup as "and" or as "or."   The wife said "or."    "And" means both must sign...."or" means either can sign.  

[HighPriority]

3 hours ago, Liverpool Lou said:

No, it has no merit as his wife's withdrawing of funds after his death would be illegal.

If the OP developed an illness there would be nothing wrong with her accessing the account in his final days, it’s a common occurrence for the surviving spouse to withdraw and hold cash in these circumstances.

[livram]

If husband married Thai wife in the USA is the marriage recognized in Thailand if never registered at Amphor?

[lopburi3]

43 minutes ago, HighPriority said:

If the OP developed an illness there would be nothing wrong with her accessing the account in his final days, it’s a common occurrence for the surviving spouse to withdraw and hold cash in these circumstances.

The big issue is he says this is not a legal spouse under Thai law - so unless that is explained it is rather hard to speculate.  

[lopburi3]

20 minutes ago, livram said:

If husband married Thai wife in the USA is the marriage recognized in Thailand if never registered at Amphor?

Yes fully.

[mojaco]

4 hours ago, Moonlover said:

I also have asked Kasikorn about appointing my stepdaughter as beneficiary to my 800K account, but can't get an answer. Someone said they can add a name to the passbook that is only visible under a blacklight, but I can't find out if that's true.

I have an invalid wife on her own 800,000 Baht "Retirement Extension" who no longer is able to process complicated events.   Therefore I added a totally trustworthy Thai person as a "Kammasit" (กรรมสิทธิ์) = "Right of Ownership" in which that person and her both sign that last page in her "single owner" 800,000 Baht Bangkok Bank bank book in invisible ink which only shows under black light. 

 

That person and others will take care of her should I precede her in death, and when she passes away they can easily use that 800,000 Baht at will.  So a Kammasit is much more than a "Beneficiary" as they have signing rights over that account while the "single owner" is still living.  I don't know if the local bank would prevent that person emptying the account while my wife was still living or not. 

 

I asked Thai Immigration about doing this ahead of time and they said "We don't care how many invisible signatures are on that last page.  All we care about is the face page showing just a single owner."  And in fact I have never had a problem getting her annual "retirement" extensions using that bank book.

 

But, you have to have a totally trusted person as a Kammasit, such as perhaps the husband on the wife's book and/or vice-versa, or some trusted family member or other person.  That right seems to be a full right to conduct all legal business with that account, including withdrawals and etc, so it must be a totally trustworthy person.

[bbko]

Another "assuming you trust your wife" option; could the OP get the bank to issue a check for the 800k, the OP signs it but the wife doesn't cash it until after death?

 

 

[couchpotato]

11 minutes ago, mojaco said:

I have an invalid wife on her own 800,000 Baht "Retirement Extension" who no longer is able to process complicated events.   Therefore I added a totally trustworthy Thai person as a "Kammasit" (กรรมสิทธิ์) = "Right of Ownership" in which that person and her both sign that last page in her "single owner" 800,000 Baht Bangkok Bank bank book in invisible ink which only shows under black light. 

 

That person and others will take care of her should I precede her in death, and when she passes away they can easily use that 800,000 Baht at will.  So a Kammasit is much more than a "Beneficiary" as they have signing rights over that account while the "single owner" is still living.  I don't know if the local bank would prevent that person emptying the account while my wife was still living or not. 

 

I asked Thai Immigration about doing this ahead of time and they said "We don't care how many invisible signatures are on that last page.  All we care about is the face page showing just a single owner."  And in fact I have never had a problem getting her annual "retirement" extensions using that bank book.

 

But, you have to have a totally trusted person as a Kammasit, such as perhaps the husband on the wife's book and/or vice-versa, or some trusted family member or other person.  That right seems to be a full right to conduct all legal business with that account, including withdrawals and etc, so it must be a totally trustworthy person.

This is indeed a legitimate way to do it.

But be aware not all Banks will do it, and some staff have no idea of the procedures..so it might take a while to find the branch and staff that understand the process.

 

PS...This exact subject was discussed at length on this forum about 3 years ago, with some very good information, so before asking more questions here, I would suggest finding this thread and read it through.

It could help considerably.

[bbko]

6 minutes ago, couchpotato said:

PS...This exact subject was discussed at length on this forum about 3 years ago, with some very good information, so before asking more questions here, I would suggest finding this thread and read it through.

It could help considerably.

This one?

 

[lopburi3]

14 minutes ago, bbko said:

Another "assuming you trust your wife" option; could the OP get the bank to issue a check for the 800k, the OP signs it but the wife doesn't cash it until after death?

 

 

These are savings accounts.

[couchpotato]

9 minutes ago, bbko said:

This one?

 

I dont think so. The subject was about the 800k and similiar stuff. Sorry cant tell you much more, but I had some posts on it, and other guys had some really good info.

[mojaco]

40 minutes ago, couchpotato said:

This is indeed a legitimate way to do it.

But be aware not all Banks will do it, and some staff have no idea of the procedures..so it might take a while to find the branch and staff that understand the process.

 

PS...This exact subject was discussed at length on this forum about 3 years ago, with some very good information, so before asking more questions here, I would suggest finding this thread and read it through.

It could help considerably.

I think you are thinking about this topic: see link:

 

[Liverpool Lou]

2 hours ago, HighPriority said:

6 hours ago, Liverpool Lou said:

No, it has no merit as his wife's withdrawing of funds after his death would be illegal.

If the OP developed an illness there would be nothing wrong with her accessing the account in his final days, it’s a common occurrence for the surviving spouse to withdraw and hold cash in these circumstances.

Nonsense.  If the account is in one person's sole name, no one else can access it without the account holders permission, his being ill would be irrelevant. 

 

It is not a common occurrence for a wife to (legally) access her living husband's sole account to remove his funds without his written permission, that is called theft. 

Edited November 26, 2021 by Liverpool Lou

[khunPer]

On 11/25/2021 at 1:50 PM, Miguel Delrio said:

Any suggestions on this matter would be most welcome.

Thanks

Joint account with two names is possible, which is what some of us use.

When one die, a single named account will normally be frozen, and part of the estate.

[couchpotato]

1 hour ago, mojaco said:

I think you are thinking about this topic: see link:

 

I have had quick look and yes I believe that is the thread. 

 

[lopburi3]

9 hours ago, khunPer said:

Joint account with two names is possible, which is what some of us use.

When one die, a single named account will normally be frozen, and part of the estate.

Yes for normal use - but for immigration deposit accounts the money must be in single name account and with current requirements that can tie up more than 800,000 baht.

[Guest Miguel Delrio]

Thanks so much everyone for the input and information here! Very useful to see all the possible options and the problems associated with them. Especially appreciate the real life scenarios. The "Kammasit" option appears to have some merit and may be worth looking into. My husband and I have been legally married under US law for the last 10 years but same sex marriage is not recognized here in Thailand yet.  I plan to take up the issue again with Kasikorn using some of the info here and seeing what they might suggest.

[khunPer]

4 hours ago, lopburi3 said:

Yes for normal use - but for immigration deposit accounts the money must be in single name account and with current requirements that can tie up more than 800,000 baht.

The OP didn't mention anything about deposit account for extension of stay, just asked about beneficiary.

Some immigration offices accepts shared accounts, if the deposit is doubled up, i.e. 800k baht for extension based on marriage, and 1.6 million baht for extension based on retirement...????

[lopburi3]

42 minutes ago, khunPer said:

The OP didn't mention anything about deposit account for extension of stay, just asked about beneficiary.

Some immigration offices accepts shared accounts, if the deposit is doubled up, i.e. 800k baht for extension based on marriage, and 1.6 million baht for extension based on retirement...????

Actually he did - in OP.

 

Quote

You may suggest that I make it a joint account, but since I need this particular account for my annual retirement visa application that is not possible.

 

[khunPer]

40 minutes ago, lopburi3 said:

Actually he did - in OP.

 

 

Thanks, you are right, my mistake I overlooked that...????

[jayceenik]

On 11/25/2021 at 8:09 PM, Miguel Delrio said:

Possibly. . .but I am married and expect my spouse to legally and automatically inherit my estate. . notably my US assets. My other Thai bank account is a joint account and my spouse should have automatic access to that when I pass on. Our marriage is not recognized here in Thailand, so the only asset that I am concerned about is the personla account I use for my retirement visa.

I have a legal Thai Will by lawyers giving all I have in TH to my TGF.

We married a couple years after that Will was made. I didn't change it.

We moved. I closed bank accounts and opened a new one in our present town.

Yes, she is named in my original Will. Yes. she is now my legal Thai wife.

Nevertheless, to be safe I wrote an update stating she is now my wife and naming my new (and only) bank account.

Photocopy Bank Book, my Passport ID page, and her ID card. 

In Thai and in English. Signed before wo Thai witnesses. (names , signature and ID nr).

 

I recommend a Thai Will.

 

[lungbing]

On 11/26/2021 at 5:30 PM, LukKrueng said:

Using the atm to withdraw money from a dead person's account is illegal. The account must be frozen as soon as the bank gets notified of the death. If anyone uses the atm to withdraw before the bank is notified and later on it is found out, the person withdrawing the money can be procedures. 

 

You actually added your partner as a signatory on the account, not a beneficiary. If you try to withdraw money at a branch using your passbook you'll actually need both signatures, not only 1.

Who is going to tell the bank you are dead?

[curtklay]

58 minutes ago, lungbing said:

Who is going to tell the bank you are dead?

That's a good question, and one I have wondered about too.