Thailand again signals move away from mass-market foreign tourism with falling numbers

[DefaultName]

Some "sex tourists" fall in love with the country, find a good woman and settle down, spending their pensions and savings here.

[Chongalulu]

3 hours ago, sandyf said:

The xenophobic glasses again.

The glasses which bring things sharply into focus. You still wearing the rose tinted ones with the scratched steamed up lenses ? 

[connda]

15 hours ago, webfact said:

It is clear that the government is aiming to take advantage of the pandemic disaster to end Thailand’s reputation as a sex tourist haven, an ambition stated clearly by the country’s first female Minister of Tourism and Sports in 2014 after the military coup that year installed a junta government. 

It's also clear that the government is aiming to take advantage of the pandemic disaster to end the lower class entrepreneurial enterprises such as street markets and other activities which have a low price for entry but competes with larger corporate business and enterprises which the government supports.  Just keep putting Thai low and middle class Thai entrepreneurs out of business and then deal with the unemployment and social unrest that will create.  The WEF promised the commoners that "they will own nothing and be happy."  I doubt that.  It;s more like you'll own nothing, live like a Neo-Feudal serf or peasant out of the Dark Ages (or Thailand in the last few centuries) and you'll be miserable but your over-lords won't give a da*m.  The New Normal Thailand is just heating up the mold to start shaping their new society for the uber-riche and wealth as they impoverish the commoners.

[tomacht8]

The TAT has absolutely no idea about modern tourism marketing.
How about:
- CRM?
- Differentiation of target groups?
- Customer loyalty strategys?
- New customer acquisition strategys?
- Customer recovery strategys?
- Customer ABC analysis?
- Customer life cycle accounting?
- Competition analysis?
- Customer needs analysis?
- Product development strategies?
- Control and early warning systems?
- Category management?
- Key account management?
- Customer individual Marketing?
- Ansoff Strategies?
- Market potential analyzes?
- Communication and feedback evaluations?
- Customer satisfaction measurements?
- medium to long-term future visions?
- and other modern tourism marketing basics

In contrast, the TAT practiced tourism marketing from 1975.

A slogan + print ads + TV commercials + exhibition stands and a stone age homepage.

The deficits of those responsible with regard to training, specialist knowledge, methodology, analytical precision and mathematic skills are evident.

 

And if you then do benchmarking and compare Thailand with other tourist regions such as e.g. Greece, Spain, Turkey, Mexico or the Dominican Republic in the Covit crisis, one would fire every manager who is responsible for a decline of 99% within 20 months.

Edited December 18, 2021 by tomacht8

[connda]

4 hours ago, sandyf said:

Thailand’s appalling education system and lack of skills don’t equip it to compete in more advanced industries and even if that could be addressed today (it can’t under current governance and ingrained attitudes) it would take a generation to overcome. No, the relatively low skillset required for a tourist industry is ideally suited to Thailand,but they are in severe danger of losing even that to a substantial degree by having no vision ,apart from wishful thinking, to address a recovery of the industry compounded by a delusional,arrogant and complacent attitude imagining tourists are banging at the door to get back in previous numbers. It’s going to a painful awakening..

Thailand's grand awakening will be in the form of Vietnam beating their butts in both tourism as well as international manufacturing and business in general.  I've worked with Vietnamese in the US.  Those I worked with were incredibly intelligent and creative and integrated into US life.
Vietnam will adapt and simply take business that could have been Thailand's for the taking.  The Thai elites see themselves as the center of the universe with non-Thais revolving around them with the express purpose of serving and benefiting Thailand.  Their wake-up call is about to arrive. 
My guess is that Thailand will carve out a niche for the foreign wealthy to support the Thai wealthy and the Thai 'commoner scum' inside and the foreigner 'commoner scum' outside of Thailand will be kicked to the side or the road and urinated on.  That's already happening.
Vietnam will pick up the flotsam and jetsam and fill in the economic vacuum left by Thailand.  Thailand will whine and buy more subs.
Thailand needs to get over their nationalism and xenophobia and embrace the global realities.  But instead they'll just successively shoot themselves in the foot and claim victory.  As the economy (except for the wealthy) takes a beating, watch for an increase in nationalism and reactionary xenophobia as Thailand's woes are blamed on outsiders.  Just a guess.

Edited December 18, 2021 by connda

[connda]

10 hours ago, Walker88 said:

Whatever TAT's goal, it doesn't seem to be working at the moment.

 

Having been in Thailand throughout the Covid Era, the most visible change since borders re-opened has been the influx of single males. I would not be surprised---if arrival demographics were made public---that somewhere on the order of 90% of arrivals are single males. Perhaps I'm mistaken, but I don't think these guys are coming for the temples.

 

I watch the inflow of guests to my hotel. Almost 100% single males. When I share the elevator with others, and there are women present, the women are invariably Thai, and I don't think they entered the country on the same flight as the man they are with.

 

Go out to eat in areas with lots of restaurants (Sukh Soi 8 is a prime example), and the foot traffic is NOT Western families, but rather Western (and to a lesser extent Asian) males and Thai females.

 

Desire is what drives arrivals. The most powerful desire is behind the vast majority of arrivals. Warm weather, good food and lovely temples are hardly enough to overcome the somewhat onerous entry requirements or the thought of breathing in lots of 2.5 particulate matter, while those driven by the biological imperative will jump through hoops and suck in gritty diesel exhaust or the dust from burning fields to reach their goal of carnal bliss.

 

It is what it is, TAT either has to come to terms with reality or accept a major and permanent loss of GDP, along with trying to 're-train' all the women, bartenders, service staff, security, etc., who have been gainfully employed in the 'entertainment industry'.

 

Perhaps the Ministry of Labor will work with TAT and devise an ad campaign aimed at getting former nightlife workers to embrace work in a pre-Industrial Age farming sector: "Scything Rice for Fun and Profit" or "What Better Way to Get Your Vitamin D", or "A Study in Lovely Snakes: The Personality of King Cobras vs Russell's Vipers or Banded Kraits"

 

 

Well stated.  Bravo!

[fredscats]

2 hours ago, Dont confuse me said:

Spain actually has 'Clubs' that are brothels, in days gone by Spanish women worked in them now mostly Eastern block some South Americans, they cater for all tastes, for sure more expensive but the quality of the rooms etc is reflected is that price.

Also on offer are the 'roundabout' girls these are freelancers who I would say are all Eastern block.

You can get menu de dia (menu of the day) 3 courses with a drink and coffee from as little as €8.50 but expect to pay €10 that's less than 400 THB .

Visiting Market Village I'd spend $100 on a bag of basics in Spain for the same amount I'd do a weeks shopping for 2.

Your right about the coastline and the Med also you can get to Sierra Navada have a morning up a mountain and be back in time for dinner on the beach.

I've lived in USA a great place for recreation and food but in all honesty it has nothing (other than gun crime) that can't be found in Europe.

I like the local centres I think they are termed, each town generally has one,the locals pitch up,cheap tapas and excellent wine,hot afternoon no better place. Spanish is so easy to learn,fantastic language

Lot of Brit ex pats can no longer live permanently in Spain,selling up,but rentals are getting cheaper,no way do I want to buy

USA? those retirement complexes in FL are fantastic,nothing like it in Spain.Probably will head to Spain  if things go pear shaped here

[connda]

17 hours ago, webfact said:

Thailand is again sending change signals to its foreign tourism market even as the figures for the November 1st reopening appear to be on course to resting at approximately 250,000 visitors for the last two months of the year leaving the final tally for 2021 at 350,000 or approximately 0.87% of what was seen in 2019.

And what percentage of that were returning Expats on long-term visas as opposed to actual tourists? 
2022 is going to bring a stark reality into clear focus if they choose to continue lining the path to the entrance to Thailand with gauntlets of regulations, new expenses, quarantined, special expensive hotels and facilities,  invasive medical tests, forced hospitalization, and the Land Of Smiles new airport greeters dressed in Bio-Safety Lab Level 4 PPE and medical gear. 
Now that most of the returning Expats are back, the actual numbers of 'tourists' can be ascertained.  No doubt the TAT and fearless leaders will dump a ton of sugar in that bitter-lime juice and call it champagne <Wait!  No champagne - it contains alcohol - 'gasp'>. 

Yep!  Exactly.  Case in point. 

Edited December 18, 2021 by connda

[AustinRacing]

All doom and gloom responses. Look at the bright side. Reduce or eliminate the sleaze factor and the country will be better off and good quality tourists will come. Just about everyone employed in the sleaze industry does not contribute to the welfare of the nation by not paying tax. Clean the slate and let them find honest work as some have been forced to do so and whether they like it or not too bad. 

[freedomnow]

More jibberjabber from the 'sing for their supper' brigade.

 

They should also look into a space elevator to the moon being centred in Thailand for Elon Musk to go up.

[bangon04]

16 hours ago, Willy Wombat said:

And if Omicron gets a grip in Thailand and it will, they will be begging anyone with a heartbeat to visit

if only that were true.....  more likely a hard lockdown. Japan hates foreigners too, but they are more polite about it.

[connda]

16 hours ago, Willy Wombat said:

And if Omicron gets a grip in Thailand and it will, they will be begging anyone with a heartbeat to visit

With a heartbeat and two three four shots and three four five PCR tests and at least $50,000 $100,000 $300,000 in a bank account in their home country with a ream of documentation to prove they are wealthy worthy enough to visit.

[Dont confuse me]

1 hour ago, fredscats said:

I like the local centres I think they are termed, each town generally has one,the locals pitch up,cheap tapas and excellent wine,hot afternoon no better place. Spanish is so easy to learn,fantastic language

Lot of Brit ex pats can no longer live permanently in Spain,selling up,but rentals are getting cheaper,no way do I want to buy

USA? those retirement complexes in FL are fantastic,nothing like it in Spain.Probably will head to Spain  if things go pear shaped here

USA was a very good deal in recession, exchange rate was favorable, problem was getting green card.

6 months USA and 6 in Thailand sounds good but after a while became a pain.

As you say Spanish easy to learn, I got my residence in 2000 managed to keep it current. The days of flipping property are long gone, ( no more black money at notary), therefore I agree renting is the way to go (it suits my circumstances, tax is a killer)

Rent a nice sea front or very close to sea,  certainly with sea view €450 a month (2 or 3 bed), long term rent 3 yrs X 2.

There is however a fly in the ointment after Brexit, new regulations regarding visa's but not a lit of difference to Thai requirements. 

[moose7117]

7 hours ago, spidermike007 said:

The common men and women who helped prop up our nation for so long are ignoring us now. So, we no longer want them. We want only the rich. 

 

Guess want? The rich have no interest in Thailand. For a dozen valid reasons. And those few wealthy ones who come, rarely ever return. See ya! 

if you actually believe that, explain why are you coming back ?

 

why not stay in LA or Mexico ?

[wasabi]

Like many other industries the Thai sex industry is largely available online as far as arranging "dates" these days and that began before the pandemic. At least that's what a friend told me so don't ask me which sites. 

[Longwood50]

14 hours ago, RichardColeman said:

Problem with aiming for high class tourists and the dismantling of the sex industry is that that is probably 6-8 million jobs out the window and no new industry to employ them on the horizon.

You don't throw out all of your old clothes before you purchase new clothes to replace them or you may find yourself naked.  In this case it is a grandiose idea to somehow transform Thailand from a night life, bar reputation that attracts tourists seeking that to a destination that attracts a more upscale group of tourists.  However, the first thing that would seem obvious ( but then again this is the government) is to answer the question What Would Bring Upscale Tourists to Thailand.?

Certainly Thailand has some nice beaches but that hardly qualifies as  compelling reason for the wealthy tourist to select Thailand.  Without something that attracts them, it is fine that Thailand wants them, but you have to make it that the wealthy tourist wants Thailand.  

Also, even if such a transformation is successful, the world is a pyramid with a huge number of people at the bottom and relatively few at the pointed top.  Even if Thailand attracts wealthier tourists, they will not be as many of them.  They will require far less restaurants, car rentals, taxi's, hotels, then the masses that came previously.  What do you then do to provide alternative jobs for those displaced by the transformation. 

While Thailand may transform one area into some sort of magnet to attract the wealthier tourist, I seriously doubt they can transform the entire country.  The lousy roads, hanging wires, trash strewn streets, rows of shabby housing to say nothing of the hoards of roaming Soi dogs are hardly what the crowd that previously frequented Monaco are likely to want to see. 

 

[Gilligan In Drag]

 

Kind of bizarre considering they don't have any tourists to speak of in the first place that they have already started in again with the staple of the last 15 years or so, "we don't want these stupid and dirty people with cheap boob jobs and plant based drugs to come here, we want these other clean, more expensively drugged up on chemicals and botoxed wealthier people who will never come here in million years because they have better places to go and get plastic surgery and take prescribed drugs, we summon you! Get your asses over to Thailand now please."  I think this is a bad way to start to try and recover your tourist industry. In fact it is so over the top bad that it seems clear they are trying to sabotage a recovery. But I fully expected this kind of thing to rear its spoiled kindergartener head asap, "we want this kind of tourist and they will recieve 10 percent off coupans and mango rice at the airport on arrival and faster visa processing." Its nauseating, its regressive, its so beaten to death and accomplishes nothing when these officials or other spokeman periodically com eout and tell us who they'd like to come to Thailand. I doubt the people who always come out twith this stuff are actually in the  tourist industry, so please just step off, this is not the way to make yourself appear useful.

 

 

Edited December 18, 2021 by Gilligan In Drag

[wealthychef]

 

20 hours ago, webfact said:

Thailand is again sending change signals to its foreign tourism market

the good news is that anyone familiar with Thailand will know that the signals are just noise, mostly there to protect personal reputations or pet projects.  whatever happens will depend on the political ecosystem, not some policy decision by a bureaucrat

[Bangkocker]

21 hours ago, Willy Wombat said:

Just pissing into the wind is TAT.

 

They’re in absolutely no position to be picky with who comes to their country.

 

And if Omicron gets a grip in Thailand and it will, they will be begging anyone with a heartbeat to visit

Yeah - makes a lot of sense 'let's kill the goose that laid the golden egg'. Nitwits change ideas according to which way the wind is blowing. So they want a better class of tourist ... to do what may I ask ??? In BKK there is one skyscraper being built after another - for what ??, whom ?? Chinese miserly tourists ??

[spidermike007]

18 hours ago, pokerface1 said:

Wrong wrong!! The world is moving away from Thailand as a tourist destination. They are just trying to save face by trying to show that they control the narrative

Absolutely spot on. The world cares very little for Thailand at this stage. They have been forgotten. Too much cowardice and timidity. Too many restrictions. No creativity, or sacrifices being made.

 

A nation in reverse run by absolute pathological creeps. 

[spidermike007]

13 hours ago, Flink said:

Yes, the high vacancy rate is something they've learned (albeit the wrong thing to learn) from Uncle Xi. Go to any middle tier city in China and you'll see mile after mile of high-rise apartment buildings sitting totally empty and not being maintained. They have entire cities that are ghost towns because no one wants to/can aford to live there. But they keep building because the politicians and the developers are getting rich. The same will happen here. It's all very well tearing down the "seedier" parts of the cities and towns but if what you replace them with is way out of the budget range of the locals you hit the issue of how you're going to afford the maintenance of those areas. 

Rather than building bigger, brighter, far more expensive hotels, condosand apartments turn the land over for landscaping. Introduce more nature and beauty to the areas. Instead of spending a fortune teampting in developers use that money to provide better infrastructure to support what is already in place. Get to work cleaning the place up, (what millionaire tourist is going to want to walk in a gutter filled with detritus because the grass has grown too thick on the pavement to be able to use it.) 

They want a "better, welathier class of tourist" to come here, then get to work sorting out the traffic, get the police actually enforcing traffic laws (rather than breaking them themselves), getimmigration to streamiline the process for people to come here, and do away with all the ridiculous controls in place once they're here. 

Their attitude seems to be that the wealthy tourists will come here because the Thai government wants them to. It doesn't work like that boys. You have to stop buying planes and submarines and usre the money to provide something those wealthy tourists will want, and overpriced hotels and casinos aren't the answer.

As for visitors, a retiree moving to live in Thailand will spend more here, and for longer, than somemega rich tourist somake the place more attractive as a retirement destination. It will keep money flowing in all year round and thereby supporting local services continuosly, not just for a couple of months of "high season" tourist traffic. Places in South America have the wonderful beaches, friendly locals, low cost of living, and to retire there you just need a pension of $700 a month, not a bank deposit of $25,000 that you can't touch. They also offer 2 year retirement visas with a route to permanent residency after 5 years and far fewer controls on what you CAN'T do on a retirement visa. 

The placeis being run by people who struggled to create an efficent and effective military force (except against their own people) so what hope is there that they could run an entire country any better? The Thai people deserve much better than what they are currently being offered but have no hope of getting it while the current regime (both political and economic) remains in place.

You are speaking truth. But you are also making sense, and using a well developed intellect. Something the goons here do not possess, and practical considerations mean nothing to them, if money is involved. We are talking about men who possess greed above everything else.

 

Woe is a nation that allows such men to rule. 

[daejung]

in a concret way, how will they do to prevent tourists to go to Thailand ?

[KhaoYai]

I wouldn't worry too much about this latest crazy statement. Personally, I've filed it in the same bin as their plan for trips to the moon. Given Anutin's enthusiasm for legalising cannabis, you sometimes have to wonder what they're smoking in the Thai parliament.

[KhaoYai]

1 hour ago, spidermike007 said:

Woe is a nation that allows such men to rule. 

Woe indeed but seeing as how they were stiched up by the new constitution, how does the nation get rid of them?

[it is what it is]

 

maybe sort out the infrastructure first

[pizzachang]

On 12/18/2021 at 3:36 AM, RichardColeman said:

the dismantling of the sex industry

Interesting; Do you suppose that "sex tourists" will instead visit Amsterdam and the numerous 'civilized' sex tourist destinations?  I've wondered about "image cleanup" I suppose, but I do not know, that some government official kept track of the numbers [pre-lockdown days] of "tourists" who visited specific [comparatively small] areas of some cities in Thailand. Everyone, that I know personally, did not come to Thailand for sex tourism. This includes families, couples and individuals. I know that there must have been a brisk trade in these normal folks.   

  Except for "price" and a "beach", can you tell me the difference between Thailand and other "destinations"?  Even in authoritarian nations (you can guess which ones) the "trade" exists.  Corrupt behavior seems to be universal and simply more hidden in some nations. Just my opinion; and interested in other's observations.-

[metisdead]

Some off topic posts trolling about the UK housing market and the related replies have been removed. 

[Stoker58]

 A busload of Chinese tourists is definitely mass market tourism. Do they really think they’re going to exclude a billion Chinese in favour of a few rich Arabs or Westerners?

[Straight8]

On 12/18/2021 at 11:31 AM, thailand49 said:

I wouldn't worry too much!  These guys are just blowing smoke the reason the air is always bad in Bangkok. They can't even get vaccines how will they get high quality tourist. ????

Bit like the gazillion tourist that were meant to be coming back by the end of 2021... bahahahahaha!

[morrobay]

56 minutes ago, pizzachang said:

 

  Except for "price" and a "beach", can you tell me the difference between Thailand and other "destinations"?  

But price of girls and beach are very very big pluses . This is synergism : the combined effect is greater than the sum of the parts, 1+1=3. That is what this place had going for it that attracted all the development coming in riding piggy back. It would not be possible to replace those two attractions with a Monte Carlo. Just look at the sidewalk/infrastructure scene in Pattaya. Impossible , they can go on and on until the cows come home. But they cannot change at that level outside of some exclusive enclaves.