Thailand again signals move away from mass-market foreign tourism with falling numbers

[dogfish180]

Why are they still harping on about the November 1st reopening? They didn't open Jack!

[4MyEgo]

4 hours ago, redwood1 said:

It seems since 2014 the goal has been to kill success stories,where ever they are found in Thailand...

As much as I have enjoyed the ROARING sex industry businesses of Thailand that you would be referring too per say, let's not forget at who's expense theses success stories, ROARING businesses have comes from, not forgetting how much money gets passed under the table as well.

 

Personally I see nothing wrong with them wanting to clean up their image and make it a proper tourist industry, it would also clean up a lot of other things behind the scenes that most don't see, then there is the question of who is going to feed all those who work in that industry through other work choices, if they can get work, and of course for less pay of course.

 

If they even did success, it would certainly turn their image around, but at a huge loss of tourists, no dount.

 

 

[maddermax]

Many expats came here and purchased condos for rent to tourists to supplement their pensions and provide some financial assistance whilst living in Thailand. This new policy could see our condo units remaining empty for some time. As some expats choose to sell off property values will reduce. This is possibly a good thing for the richer Thais who will buy them up, but who are they going to rent to? It will also make Thailand less attractive as a property investment destination. Clearly, the status quo would be the best financial option for everybody concerned. Leave the snobby 'high-end' market where it belongs as there are a lot fewer of them!

[rct99q]

33 minutes ago, sandyf said:

Your thinking is flawed. What any country really needs is a robust GDP and tourism is not a robust industry, as many countries around the globe have come to realise.

Thailand and other countries that have a certain dependence on tourism need to look to other sources of revenue to support the GDP.

Yes, but the main focus of the article was tourism. And a healthy tourism sector can add to a countries well being. Very few can survive on just tourism. Not sure your age, but today's youth have more opportunities to travel than any previous generation. 

 

[Hummin]

22 minutes ago, hotchilli said:

Prayuts worry is that if the sex industry gets up and going again there will be no turning it around.

This is his opportunity to quell the likes of Pattaya etc.

Phuket, Samui, Krabi, Koh Tao are far enough away and isolated so they can be the haunts of the sex travelers and workers.

However mainland resorts are in for a change.

What would you rather have, Walking street of old or a rejuvenated Pattaya with bistros, cafes, restaurants, normal bars, where there will be plenty of employment, without the scantily clad girls and sex services shoved in your face.

Not to forget the Chinese buss tourists marching trough walking street, that was something see them with the front leader with the buss number on leading them trough the street. 

[JonnyF]

Thailand has always been a bit of a mess but it was fun and cheap.

 

When it’s not fun and cheap anymore it’s just a mess.

 

If they want high end tourists they will have to up their game but I suspect this article is about face saving because in reality Thailand isn’t moving away from the mass market. The mass market is moving away from Thailand.

[hotchilli]

2 minutes ago, Hummin said:

Not to forget the Chinese buss tourists marching trough walking street, that was something see them with the front leader with the buss number on leading them trough the street. 

Chinese tourists en-masse in Thailand is history, Xi is keeping them all locked up at home to bolster his failing economy before the big crash.

[newnative]

     TAT wants this, TAT wants that.  In my opinion it's all just an exercise in nonsense.  In the last 10 years my partner and I have visited Vietnam, Cambodia, Hong Kong, China (twice), Japan, Australia, Italy, Switzerland, America, France, and Singapore.  Not once were we influenced by any ad campaigns by any of the countries we visited.  We didn't see a single travel ad in any format.  Nor did we check beforehand to see if France, for example, was looking for a certain kind of tourist.  We wanted to visit France and so we visited.  Ditto for all the rest.  I suspect that's the case for most tourists.  TAT can seek this, seek that, blowing smoke to justify its existence and its large budget, but that's about all they are doing.  

[rct99q]

28 minutes ago, nobodysfriend said:

Don't tell his wife ...

Goes both ways. I worked at a guest house here in thailand for quite a few years. Although not 50/50 there was an abundance of married women travelling on their own or with gal pals, enjoying their time.

Interestingly many were of German nationality  (and Japanese ).

[Travis179]

5 minutes ago, hotchilli said:

Chinese tourists en-masse in Thailand is history, Xi is keeping them all locked up at home to bolster his failing economy before the big crash.

And they have a lengthy quarantine when they return. 

[Walker88]

2 hours ago, ChC1 said:

 

 

 

 

 No offense but look around yourself you would notice. How many under 35s customers you see in the place you are going for sex?...one, two, three...

Have you been in Thailand in the last year or two?

 

One very visible trend has been the shift in the demographics of the average punter. There is a much higher percentage of young men (20-35 years old, Asian and Caucasian) hitting the agogos or walking around Bangkok and Pattaya with women who may well work in the P4P industry. One can never be certain, of course, but the odds favor P4P if the woman is wearing a micro-mini dress or Daisy Dukes, has a significant # of tatts, breasts that she did not grow during puberty, and a piercing or two. I apologize if I'm generalizing.

 

I don't know why the change, but these are not Incels....at least they do not seem to have that forlorn look of one well practiced in onanism or with an odd addiction to latex. The old balding, beer-bellied, sexpat may be dying off, but they are being rapidly replaced by guys much closer in age to the women they 'date'.

 

If I can venture a guess, I would say this shift in punter demographics has been driven by multiple factors....in Asia it is that there are more professional women, interested in building careers and less interested in building romance, that has their male colleagues looking for love in all the right places, while in the West there are folks 'inspired' by movies like Hangover II or fearful of the Me, Too movement or the shift toward a more androgynous society. It could also be that many men just find Thai women more attractive (I'm not making a value judgement on Western women, but just guessing what factors might be driving this change. To toss in the usual disclaimer, "Many of my friends are young Western women")

 

[fredscats]

1 hour ago, Pravda said:

This country is toast. The problem is they built the infrastructure to support 50 million tourists. Say half of them are backpackers then even them like the western comforts and will at least visit air-conditioning malls and eat at food courts.... occasionally buying cheap trinkets to bring back home.

 

How long can groups like Central, the mall keep them open with non existent Thai customers? The majority of these malls are surviving on leases that they established with many shops. Most shops are closing.

 

Condos are another story.

Too true,but there does not have to be much footfall to keep those places open either,its going to be messy

[Classic Ray]

I am concerned about the social and political effect of this disruption to the tourist industry and consequent job losses.

 

Social unrest and rising crime rates caused by unemployment could destabilise the government and reduce their support base to zero as even their hi so supporters see their income streams diminish, let alone the military and police business owners.

 

That could lead to a call for a new government based on running Thailand like a business, as was seen on a previous occasion.

 

Great care needs to be taken to prevent civil unrest which could result, and the only way to do that is to urgently improve the economy and job opportunities for the mostly young people who are suffering.

[JonnyF]

52 minutes ago, sandyf said:

Your thinking is flawed. What any country really needs is a robust GDP and tourism is not a robust industry, as many countries around the globe have come to realise.

Thailand and other countries that have a certain dependence on tourism need to look to other sources of revenue to support the GDP.

Captain hindsight has arrived.

 

Tourism was a fantastic earner for decades. Nobody saw this coming. Thailand needs to fix it’s tourist industry not abandon it.

[nausea]

Change the record.

[tlcwaterfall]

5 hours ago, redwood1 said:

Guys if you had a business that was a ROARING success for the last 50 years solid......What would you want to change about your business?

 

My guess is about 99.9% of you would want to change absolutely nothing...

 

So why this fanatical focus on changing tourism?

 

Really why? 

 

It seems since 2014 the goal has been to kill success stories,where ever they are found in Thailand...

 

 

 

We all know what happened in May 2014. The clowns are continuing to run the circus and poor attendances will continue.

[Sydebolle]

I just love it, a new day and a series of new ideas and comments by some nobody somewhere hidden in the dungeon of bureaucratic government officials. The tourism people have been faring very well ever since they had a reason why tourism started to nosedive. 

Your sinking figures and corresponding sinking revenues started long before Covid19, Corona or whatever other excuse you flag. 

35 years ago some smart brain coined "amazing Thailand" which, at the time, was spot on. Tourists came in droves, mostly quality tourists on an FIT basis and lucrative group tours visiting the countryside beauties of mainly central and northern Thailand. The rest was sneaking around the tens of thousands of houses of ill repute. Likewise the girls, the customers, bar owners, hotel operators and the police lining their pockets were happy. 

Dual pricing on a, the longer the more expensive, product started to explode, the individual and small tour groups made way for the avalanche of Russians until their currency went down the drain. The red brethren from the North replaced them with zero dollar tours in the millions. A ferry "sank" in Phuket ringing in the first visible bump in arrivals from China and from there it only went downhill.

Meanwhile the local boys blocked visa-runners (900,000 non-Thais with an average spending of 30,000 Baht/monthly) got screwed with visa regulations and 27 billion Baht got erased; yearly that is. Long term tourists wanting to spend the chillier winter months in Thailand were facing ridiculous visa requirements. Asking German retiree couples, owning a 15 million Baht condominium, on a yearly basis to present a health certificate confirming no "Syphilis" nor "Elephantiasis" by a German doctor was sofar unmatched. Others, married to a Thai national, had to physically bring along their wives to the visa-issuing Embassy or Consulate as the (European) paperwork was not sufficient. 

Then they added the 90-days notification for the sole reason to employ another few brainless university graduates (with normally no knowledge of any foreign language at the immigration); the TM30 followed. 

Next step was the officially backed  practice of charging the dirty farang and alien upto 20 times the local tariff when passing through a national park or visiting a historical site. Here the answer would be much simpler; Thais go free and non-Thais pay a reasonable access fee. 

The booze tale was next, no booze from midnight to 11 am and between 2pm and 5pm. Official reason given; keep kids away from alcoholism. Well, during the hours kids are in school = no alcohol, during lunch breaks and after school = booze agogo!

No beach chairs on Thai beaches and 100,000 Baht fine for smoking or drinking a cold stubby at the beach followed. 

The Covid19 sank in and the regulators went into idiotic overdrive with closing everything, making access to Thailand literally impossible and hoping for the flu to disappear into thin air. Did not happen, the 14-days quarantine followed at rip-off 5* pricing for shabby accommodation and cold food served in plastic containers by staff wrapped up on transparent garbage bags. The multi-million Covid19-insurance followed, testing, retesting and reretesting followed. 

The dirty farang would come last with vaccination until the international community worldwide told the Thais to hold it; then - all of a sudden - it was foreigners first with real vaccinations and not the locally boiled-up soups under a monopolistic license from God-knows-where.

The first few millions of Thais landed on the road, without social network protection and the rigid access had to get loosened; now down to one night in a quarantine (see above). Every governor can instruct rules (fly domestically into Suvannaphoum does not require any papers; landing at Udon Thani without a vaccination certificate = off the a quarantine sojourn as so instructed by the local bigwig). 

 

 

You want to get tourism back? Really? then get rid of all those weed smoking clowns in the governmental tourism offices, reassign 75% of the immigration goons into inactive postings and streamline your regulations on a common sense basis; stop bashing on the dirty farang, alien, kaek, cheks and whatever the semi-divine Khon Thais meanwhile call non-Thais, teach them foreign languages and hope for the best. The last could be easily and free-of-charge implemented by no voicing over the endless stream of cartoons on local TV stations; let those cartoons run in their original languages like English or Japanese and most kids will have an excellent basis to learn English/Japanese at school.

I'm not a day dreamer; nothing will happen as those in charge of invoking changes are the same group of gangsters who directly benefit from the status-quo!

Welcome to Thailand! 

 

Enough!  Just quit squirming around with all the useless hype, remove the hurdles, and truly open the country.

 

Tourists will come, but it has to be easy. 

[Nemises]

Lol, they are kidding. 
 

Mongers don’t need any further advertising to visit Thailand.

 

It (the cheap sex industry) has been built and they will continue to come here regardless. 

[Purdey]

The first time I heard of this type of policy was 30 years ago. Many concluded at the time that rich tourists stayed in expensive hotels with expensive restaurants. Hippies stayed in cheap hotels and spent their money on street food. Rich people stayed a week, hippies for several months. The result was the average Thai benefited more from hippies and the rich business owners kept it to themselves.

The call from the Tourism Ministry was come and see the temples and eat the food. 

Of course Thailand would benefit from clean beaches, no dual pricing and fewer scams. But the lack of foreign language and excellent service ability is never going to pull in rich people who expect these things.  

Thailand needs to raise the quality of its people and depending on rich tourists isn’t going to change much.

[Headgame]

I think of hordes of Chinese tourists when the reference is made to mass tourism.

It takes decades to make a true change of market to benefit the future.
 

I think it would be possible to "ban" tour groups larger than say, 10 persons which would immediately take away the mass tourism label without making unnecessary changes to the sex industry, etc.

Get rid of that mass group tourism and good things will come much faster than trying to find and fight over the upper end traveler. Tourism markets around the world always want high end tourists. Getting them is always the challenge.

[desert dueller]

Move away from mass tourism? Well, goal achieved already, judging by the last two years. 

[Walker88]

Whatever TAT's goal, it doesn't seem to be working at the moment.

 

Having been in Thailand throughout the Covid Era, the most visible change since borders re-opened has been the influx of single males. I would not be surprised---if arrival demographics were made public---that somewhere on the order of 90% of arrivals are single males. Perhaps I'm mistaken, but I don't think these guys are coming for the temples.

 

I watch the inflow of guests to my hotel. Almost 100% single males. When I share the elevator with others, and there are women present, the women are invariably Thai, and I don't think they entered the country on the same flight as the man they are with.

 

Go out to eat in areas with lots of restaurants (Sukh Soi 8 is a prime example), and the foot traffic is NOT Western families, but rather Western (and to a lesser extent Asian) males and Thai females.

 

Desire is what drives arrivals. The most powerful desire is behind the vast majority of arrivals. Warm weather, good food and lovely temples are hardly enough to overcome the somewhat onerous entry requirements or the thought of breathing in lots of 2.5 particulate matter, while those driven by the biological imperative will jump through hoops and suck in gritty diesel exhaust or the dust from burning fields to reach their goal of carnal bliss.

 

It is what it is, TAT either has to come to terms with reality or accept a major and permanent loss of GDP, along with trying to 're-train' all the women, bartenders, service staff, security, etc., who have been gainfully employed in the 'entertainment industry'.

 

Perhaps the Ministry of Labor will work with TAT and devise an ad campaign aimed at getting former nightlife workers to embrace work in a pre-Industrial Age farming sector: "Scything Rice for Fun and Profit" or "What Better Way to Get Your Vitamin D", or "A Study in Lovely Snakes: The Personality of King Cobras vs Russell's Vipers or Banded Kraits"

 

 

Edited December 18, 2021 by Walker88

[nickmondo]

i pay no attention to any of this waffle any more

[Chongalulu]

1 hour ago, sandyf said:

Your thinking is flawed. What any country really needs is a robust GDP and tourism is not a robust industry, as many countries around the globe have come to realise.

Thailand and other countries that have a certain dependence on tourism need to look to other sources of revenue to support the GDP.

Outside of a black swan event like a pandemic,a well maintained tourist industry is very robust and lucrative. Countries like Spain and Ski resorts illustrate that. What 'other sources of revenue'? Thailand’s appalling education system and lack of skills don’t equip it to compete in more advanced industries and even if that could be addressed today (it can’t under current governance and ingrained attitudes) it would take a generation to overcome. No, the relatively low skillset required for a tourist industry is ideally suited to Thailand,but they are in severe danger of losing even that to a substantial degree by having no vision ,apart from wishful thinking, to address a recovery of the industry compounded by a delusional,arrogant and complacent attitude imagining tourists are banging at the door to get back in previous numbers. It’s going to a painful awakening..

[Capt Rob]

3 hours ago, ChC1 said:

I think some older times are too used to what it used to be. But from a neutral point of view, the change of direction is needed for Thailand.

 

First, it is the change of landscape. There are many factors will change post Covid. Thailand is already an expensive place due to strong Thai Baht. You guys kept saying that so it must be true. Now the crown of cheaper destinations are moving to Vietnam, Indonesia and Cambodia alike. Countries like Vietnam, Cambodia and even Sri Lanka have built many international hotels in past decade, and are still building as we speak. These will add pressure to Thailand to maintain competitive edge. Not to mention the ambitious Saudi Arabia, UAE and Oman plans, are all building tourism industry. When Thailand was top destination, nobody thought about Vietnam or Middle East. Now look at it. All the shining and new hotels along the coastline, and casinos, which Thailand is short of. Thailand can not maintain to be a cheap destination in next decade. There are too many alternatives, Thailand knows it.

 

Second, it is the change of clientele. For sure you old timers likes the bars, like the scene. But you older timers as a breed, is ... dying off slowly. No offense but look around yourself you would notice. How many under 35s customers you see in the place you are going for sex?...one, two, three...Yes you see the same old same old year after year. All the younger ones are dating through app, or stay at home to use P0rl2 hul3. Sure there is always new blood discovering gogo bars and soapy massages. But next time when you are back home in USA or UK, have a look around. One thing you will notice any sizeable city in USA or UK, all have multiple Thai Massage shops. Remember the New England Patriot boss who got caught in a Florida Thai Massage place? You do not need to come to Thailand to get Thai sex. The novelty of an authentic Thai gogo bar, or soapy massages is not attractive any more in today's globalised world. 

 

There will always be changes in the world. Thailand has changed. It may need more changes ahead. For good or for bad. Will Thailand get rid of the image of land of sex? I don't know. But for the planners, or anyone who has a sense of market, it is dangerous to stay where you were while ignore the competition next door. A winning formula can only last you so long until there are copy cats everywhere.

 

However, that being said, I still doubt TAT's ability to repositioning Thailand's tourism industry. They might be able to identify the problem, and its obvious solution. But they are shXt in draw up a strategy and even worse at implement such grand strategy. So, yes, nothing will change in the end. Except soon all the gogo bars will have frail older guys with walking frames complaining the music is too loud. 

A thoughtful response and for the most part on target.

Some previous commentators have overlooked most of the above points. One point that has seemingly been missed thus far is the Thai nationals desire to have respect as a nation.

This is of course all very well, if you are not struggling to put a roof over your family or food on the table.

Elitism is another giant hurdle in the way of social equality for the many. That will take a time to sort out.

Moving on to the last sentence I doubt that the bars will be full of 'zimmer frames', the sub fifties will still setting the physical pace.

[shackleton]

Yes it's about time Thailand went  more for the family type tourist plenty of scenery Temples beaches plus good food to enjoy

The days of the cheap Charlie's and Sex tourists is on the way out

As most people here will know 

Pattaya has been on the downward slope a while now ???? 

The Thai Government want to get rid of the Sex and Sleaze.   image Pattaya has around the world and is slowly getting what it wants 

[SuwadeeS]

People with money prefer other locations.

Second Thailand is well know for cheating and dual pricing.

Further Thailand is dictatorship wearing a democratic suit.

Never again.

[fulhamster]

2 hours ago, KhaoYai said:

Talk, nothing but talk.  Have they got the money to clean up the country in such a way that would be attractive to their Hi-So target market?  Its one thing getting the girls off the streets (if that was even possible) but its quite a different matter to get rid of the rats that writhe around in the mountains of black bin bags on those same streets.  How many taxis would this new market need? Would they even travel in a beaten up old ex write off? What if those Hi-So tourists wanted to rent a car and see a little more of the country? How would they feel about driving amongst a bunch of lunatics running red lights and undertaking you in the hard shoulder as your exiting the expressway?  Water that drains the wrong way out of the shower in a 5000 baht per night room? Can they change all that?

 

How many Hi-So's will put up with having to pay tea money for their visas or being asked for 16 photo copies of their passport?

 

Even if they could do all that, how long would it take to achieve a market value anywhere near the one they think they can replace. Can they accept another 5 , 10,, 15 years like the last 2? These people must get paid on the amount of ridiculous ideas they come up with.

 

'only modest gains being seen from the November re-opening'? Somebody please tell them that compulsory waiting for a test result, locked in a hotel room is actually called quarantine, not 'Exemption from Quarantine'. There are plenty of destinations open that don't require the uploading of countless forms to ensure the state doesn't have pay a penny if you do fall ill.  Granted, now its working better, Thailand Pass is much easier than COE was but most other tourist destinations don't require anything like it. Flash your vaccine passport and you're in.  Neither do they cart negative testing tourists off to quarantine (at their own expense) if they've been sitting close to someone who tests positive - what sort of an advert is that?

 

Fair enough, they want to protect the country, so stay closed. You can't have your cake and eat it too.

 

Have they done any market research? Are they aware that there are already plenty of places already serving the market they seek and tourists that really like it there can buy a holiday home. High end toursim? Its a joke right?

Very well written.

You've summed it all up perfectly,

[BritManToo]

Just now, shackleton said:

Yes it's about time Thailand went  more for the family type tourist plenty of scenery Temples beaches plus good food to enjoy

I'm not sure I'd want to risk the health and safety of my western kids in Thailand.

Spain/France would be more suitable, and closer, and the beaches and sea are cleaner.

Euro parents bringing their kids long haul, aren't really thinking of what's good for their kids.

[Alotoftravel]

Where is 

Minister Phiphat Ratchakit Prakarn

what say he ?