Thailand again signals move away from mass-market foreign tourism with falling numbers

[Sydebolle]

1 hour ago, Sydebolle said:

I just love it, a new day and a series of new ideas and comments by some nobody somewhere hidden in the dungeon of bureaucratic government officials. The tourism people have been faring very well ever since they had a reason why tourism started to nosedive. 

Your sinking figures and corresponding sinking revenues started long before Covid19, Corona or whatever other excuse you flag. 

35 years ago some smart brain coined "amazing Thailand" which, at the time, was spot on. Tourists came in droves, mostly quality tourists on an FIT basis and lucrative group tours visiting the countryside beauties of mainly central and northern Thailand. The rest was sneaking around the tens of thousands of houses of ill repute. Likewise the girls, the customers, bar owners, hotel operators and the police lining their pockets were happy. 

Dual pricing on a, the longer the more expensive, product started to explode, the individual and small tour groups made way for the avalanche of Russians until their currency went down the drain. The red brethren from the North replaced them with zero dollar tours in the millions. A ferry "sank" in Phuket ringing in the first visible bump in arrivals from China and from there it only went downhill.

Meanwhile the local boys blocked visa-runners (900,000 non-Thais with an average spending of 30,000 Baht/monthly) got screwed with visa regulations and 27 billion Baht got erased; yearly that is. Long term tourists wanting to spend the chillier winter months in Thailand were facing ridiculous visa requirements. Asking German retiree couples, owning a 15 million Baht condominium, on a yearly basis to present a health certificate confirming no "Syphilis" nor "Elephantiasis" by a German doctor was sofar unmatched. Others, married to a Thai national, had to physically bring along their wives to the visa-issuing Embassy or Consulate as the (European) paperwork was not sufficient. 

Then they added the 90-days notification for the sole reason to employ another few brainless university graduates (with normally no knowledge of any foreign language at the immigration); the TM30 followed. 

Next step was the officially backed  practice of charging the dirty farang and alien upto 20 times the local tariff when passing through a national park or visiting a historical site. Here the answer would be much simpler; Thais go free and non-Thais pay a reasonable access fee. 

The booze tale was next, no booze from midnight to 11 am and between 2pm and 5pm. Official reason given; keep kids away from alcoholism. Well, during the hours kids are in school = no alcohol, during lunch breaks and after school = booze agogo!

No beach chairs on Thai beaches and 100,000 Baht fine for smoking or drinking a cold stubby at the beach followed. 

The Covid19 sank in and the regulators went into idiotic overdrive with closing everything, making access to Thailand literally impossible and hoping for the flu to disappear into thin air. Did not happen, the 14-days quarantine followed at rip-off 5* pricing for shabby accommodation and cold food served in plastic containers by staff wrapped up on transparent garbage bags. The multi-million Covid19-insurance followed, testing, retesting and reretesting followed. 

The dirty farang would come last with vaccination until the international community worldwide told the Thais to hold it; then - all of a sudden - it was foreigners first with real vaccinations and not the locally boiled-up soups under a monopolistic license from God-knows-where.

The first few millions of Thais landed on the road, without social network protection and the rigid access had to get loosened; now down to one night in a quarantine (see above). Every governor can instruct rules (fly domestically into Suvannaphoum does not require any papers; landing at Udon Thani without a vaccination certificate = off the a quarantine sojourn as so instructed by the local bigwig). 

 

 

You want to get tourism back? Really? then get rid of all those weed smoking clowns in the governmental tourism offices, reassign 75% of the immigration goons into inactive postings and streamline your regulations on a common sense basis; stop bashing on the dirty farang, alien, kaek, cheks and whatever the semi-divine Khon Thais meanwhile call non-Thais, teach them foreign languages and hope for the best. The last could be easily and free-of-charge implemented by no voicing over the endless stream of cartoons on local TV stations; let those cartoons run in their original languages like English or Japanese and most kids will have an excellent basis to learn English/Japanese at school.

I'm not a day dreamer; nothing will happen as those in charge of invoking changes are the same group of gangsters who directly benefit from the status-quo!

Welcome to Thailand! 

 

Enough!  Just quit squirming around with all the useless hype, remove the hurdles, and truly open the country.

 

Tourists will come, but it has to be easy. 

The yearly spending of the visa runners is 324 billion Baht, the quoted 27 billion Baht are monthly! 

[JRG23]

With a bit of luck Thailand will return to the sex industry to drive tourism.

 

Tourism will rise massively and the country will reap the economic benefits.

 

Exactly like it did in the 80s and 90s.

[ifmu]

5 hours ago, Gold Star said:

TAT is like a headless chicken, flailing around and bleeding to death in different directions:

 

- Let's get rid of the Chinese (Zero dollar tours)

- Let's bring in Pokemon Go' to save us

- Let's bring back the Chinese

- Let's make visas unnecessarily difficult

- Let's bring in the Indians to save us

- Let's close our Island parks

- Let's bring in high dollar tourists

- Let's charge tourists 10x more in parks

- Let's shut down Pattaya and make it all a family resort

- Let's have New Years entertainment

- Let's shut down any entertainment

- Let's make it nearly impossible to buy alcohol

- Let's create a tough list of restrictions and conditions for entry, insurance, and testing, make people pay for it all in advance, then change it every week

 

Enough!  Just quit squirming around with all the useless hype, remove the hurdles, and truly open the country.

 

Tourists will come, but it has to be easy. 

all good points  but we all keep forgetting what the main issue is   

the damnnn virus  is still here and getting worse again ... we (thailand) has not stopped it yet ..   all efforts should be toward stopping it  even if it means shutting down biz   

[Confuscious]

I was 3 weeks ago in South Jomtien, near Ban Saray.
Hig rise condominiums with price starting at 4 million baht.
Prices that are out of the reach of most (s)expats with a pension.
And most of these condominiums WERE SOLD OUT!!!!

Condominium owners families enjoying a day at the local swimming pool that looked like a swimming pool in Singapore.
Very clean and neat.
Very few, almost none, Esan hookers around.

 

In the evening, condominium owners started to return home from work in Ferrari's, Porsche's, Lambo's, etc.
All cars with price tags starting around 6 million baht.
Ordering a dinner at the condominium of a few 10 thousand baht for them and their family.

Face it.
The days of the (s)expats who came to Thailand to marry a Thai hooker from Pattaya or Phuket, buy a house upcountry in the rice fields of Nakhon Nowhere and going to the Maharat when somethings goes awry are over.
Thailand doesn't want you anymore.

1 single of these condominium owners spend more in 1 day in Thailand than a (s)expat and his Esan family in a whole year and they are not whining like you.

 

[toho]

3 hours ago, ikke1959 said:

No wonder if the Government think that they know everything best. Years ago there were backpackers coming to THailand to stay here, sometimes, work/teach and spend ther money with travelling around. But the Government changed visa rules and ordered strict rules to get a workpermit and was not qualified was not welcome anymore. Than there were people with a wife and maybe some kids. The wife had a shop or a small restaurant, and they could earn a living. but the foreigners who could have the money for marriage visa or retirement visa came on tourists visa that they renewed with border runs. But the Government decicde it was illegal to do so many times and now they have left. Wife probably no shop or restaurant anymore. 

Than the people coming to live here. I was once at immigration offce and the officer was very unfriendly to an eldery couple. They had bought a house, furniture, a car, and invested so several millions of THB. But the officer  said that the needed to have a bank account with 800.000 each on it. The man almost cried and said look what we invested and bought and I don't have that money anymore. I don't know what the result was because I was finished and left the office, but it is just an example how you don't handle people who want to come to live here.  If the Government has a bit of brains they shojld know that retirees have kids, who will come to visit their parents, grandparents and that are tourists too. But by making the rules very strict, and change every year almost to more paperwork, it is not welcoming for foreigners to live here,  even if they have a lot of money. 90 days reports/renew the visa with every year the same or more paperwork and requirements, no it gives a feeling that you are a criminal/ an unwanted guest, and than there so many other issues as double pricing, and lately the court that ruled that foreigners can pay more for the same treatment because they have more money. You can destroy a reputation easily, but it is so difficult to rebuild it...That is why Thailand is not popular anymore with tourists. Treat them as guests, welcome them warmly instead of grumpy officers at the borders and long cues. Get rid of the 90 days report it is no use and double pricing, and try to attrack more tourists, by less hurdles for visa or entry the country. It will take years to recover but that is the Government to blame.   

Very well said. You should be member of the TAT, your common sense would really help to solve many problems. I had to renew my expired retirement visa this week. Rather unpleasant experience: unknown demands (my question: "why Immigration not write down everything?" with answer: "I tell you now!!") so go back home, extra set copies of copies (almost 180 THB, so 36 copies), stressed personnel without fuses. Days later a call from Immigration: they forgot to make picture ( i gave them 2 already, paper sad only 1 was sufficient), so go back again into a long line of persons, waiting like cattle. The Immigration officer who could "pave the way" for me (a way that i did not follow up). In the bank I changed my fixed account from 1 year to 3 months, it took me 1 hour. How they love papers and signatures and stamps. Why ask again and again for details, that are in their computer systems for many years already?

Just some examples of missed hospitality chances. Take it easy, keep cool: "chai jen jen". Why make life so difficult in this climate?

[Dukeleto]

Dismantle your sex industry and you will get what you want. But as the old saying goes “be careful what you wish for”. I for one think they will be shooting themselves in the foot with a sawn off shotgun should they actually do that but alas Thailand is no stranger to doing that to themselves. They can’t seem to see 2 seconds into the future but hey it’s Thailand so “up to you”. They can always do the standard back peddle manoeuvre something which they are record holders of and the current world champions.

[Mike KIWI]

Pretty sure I have heard this before. They are better at getting rid own low spending tourists than they are at attracting high spending tourists.

[Spock]

4 hours ago, Damrongsak said:

All has to do with pricing.  When I was there in the age of dinosaurs, I could have a good time for 50 Baht or less up-country.  90 Baht at one place in Bangkok, but they provided the short time room and it was in a nice part of town. That was like $4.50 at the exchange rate at that time. 

These short term rooms were, I assume, to offer you temporary relief from the heat and exhaustion after devoting hours to the inspection of temples, ruins or other historical or cultural displays. Once refreshed, I imagine you moved on to the next town to avail yourself of its cultural offerings. Yes those indeed were days to be savoured by the discerning Thai tourist.

[dutchweller]

Thailand needs to be a high quality tourist destination first!!

If you are a High roller Tourist there is far better places to go and be treated with respect, feel valued and relax than Thailand.
 

IMO Thailand needs to:
Legalize Weed
Legalize Prostitution

Relax All laws on Alcohol
Legalize Gambling

Aim for Mass Tourism

Let the Hordes come for fast and free time .
Thailand should do what it did best back in the 80-90's a cheap, sleazy and dirty place.

 

There is NO WAY IN HELL Thailand will ever be considered a Top spot for a high roller.
If these morons at TAT keep this up Thailand has NO HOPE of recovering!

The mentality of Thailand with its Corruption, Lack of accountability when things go wrong due to negligence or out right dishonesty and Total Lack of what a real first class destination is.

The must save Face at all cost and never admit wrong doing mentality that is part of a the Thai/Chinese psyche is what will forever stop Thailand being anything close to a high tier Hospitality tourist destination.

If TAT think Tourists with money promised a 5 star fault free vacation and receive anything but what they paid for will go away quietly and accept the old Thai Smile and TIT attitude, still pay full price and come back to give them a second chance they are DREAMING!

 

 
 

[Freddy42OZ]

6 hours ago, Soikhaonoiken said:

Don't get me wrong, I love Thailand for its fun factors, but spend my quality holidays in the Caribbean

 

Why can't you have the same fun in the Caribbean?  I'm sure there must be a lot of nice women there, locals and tourists alike.  
No chance of a holiday romance with another tourist?
 

[worldexpress]

5 hours ago, Chang_paarp said:

If TAT wants to attract the elusive "high end" of the tourist market they will have to ensure that the necessary infrastructure is built to the needed quality and . . . . . maintained. 

 

Not holding my breath.

If they simply make the minimum for a short time to be officially 1,000B.. that'd squeeze out the Indians and other lowest mass of dirty farangs and markedly improve the condition and the reputation of the market.

[konaboy]

heaven forbid! What if the many tourists that came to Thailand are finished with Thailand? Now want to go elsewhere, no matter what the Government does ?

[brucegoniners]

These guys just don't get it and they'll never get it. The unicorn of the "high end foreign traveler" would have come here already if they existed for Thailand. But they don't.

 

These bozos better start taking what they can get or the country will never recover and it won't even be a good place to live for the foreigners who do live here.

 

Once you have a reputation it is almost impossible to shed it. Sex tourism is and always will be a large part of Thailand's tourist revenue. Cheap Chinese and Indians will too.

 

Scare them away and you'll have nothing. Which is pretty much what they have right now.

 

They keep making proclamations like that will magically make the unicorns appear out of thin air. It always makes me laugh.

 

I started coming here 23 years ago and have lived here for 21 and nothing has changed. And it never will change.

[Eric Loh]

15 minutes ago, Dukeleto said:

Dismantle your sex industry and you will get what you want. But as the old saying goes “be careful what you wish for”. I for one think they will be shooting themselves in the foot with a sawn off shotgun should they actually do that but alas Thailand is no stranger to doing that to themselves. They can’t seem to see 2 seconds into the future but hey it’s Thailand so “up to you”. They can always do the standard back peddle manoeuvre something which they are record holders of and the current world champions.

You really think dismantling an estimated 10% sex industry of total tourist expenditure is “shooting themselves”. Especially when most of this shadow economy doesn’t contribute to the government revenues. 
.

[Isaan sailor]

Best way to sell Tourists on Thailand—pitch it as an exotic, affordable vacation destination—with some good clean fun for everyone.  So yes to family stuff, beaches wats, and bargirls.

[frankie machine]

brilliant!   now thailand can have even fewer of the tourists they seem to hate so much. 

[smudger1951]

7 hours ago, redwood1 said:

Guys if you had a business that was a ROARING success for the last 50 years solid......What would you want to change about your business?

 

My guess is about 99.9% of you would want to change absolutely nothing...

 

So why this fanatical focus on changing tourism?

 

Really why? 

 

It seems since 2014 the goal has been to kill success stories,where ever they are found in Thailand...

 

 

 

Lets give a shout out for that female Minister of Tourism who who wishes to throw cold water on tourism and thwart the ambitions of many thai ladies who wish to escape the rice field and meet a farang.

Once more thankyou, Kobkarn Wattanavarankul.

[AustinRacing]

This is a good opportunity to implement changes. I agree with changing the image of Thailand as sex capital of the world. With it we’ve seen the scum that have targeted Thailand as a destination from child sex addicts, drug dealers and other criminals. Red light districts exist in just about every major city in the world and Thailand will be no exception. Now that the sex industry is just about destroyed makes it a great opportunity as it would’ve been difficult to do that in the middle of peak activity. 

[dutchweller]

6 minutes ago, smudger1951 said:

Lets give a shout out for that female Minister of Tourism who who wishes to throw cold water on tourism and thwart the ambitions of many thai ladies who wish to escape the rice field and meet a farang.

Once more thankyou, Kobkarn Wattanavarankul.

When you are married to Pol Maj Gen Chonnasit Wattanavrangkul who was provincial police commander in Phuket (nothing to see here move along)

Why would you give a toss about some scummy Issan family's.

Edited December 18, 2021 by dutchweller

[robertson468]

What they like and what they get is two different issues and how do they discriminate between rich and poor tourists?  I wish TAT would grow up.

[soalbundy]

6 hours ago, daveAustin said:

Oh well, back to banana republic you go. 

BACK to ?

[Tropposurfer]

All the hi-so, politician, and social activist rhetoric won't put the slightest dent in any society that predicates its entire economic and social cohesion (?) on creating and maintaining barriers that forbid the have not's becoming the haves.

Such societies (some say 'all' societies) cannot and will not ever allow that status quo to change.  There will always be those who aspire to designer lifestyles and hi-so life who will be offered little to no other than to do anything, not only in order to survive, but to buy into the mass-delusion that they too can ascend the ladder to such a life. 

Edited December 18, 2021 by Tropposurfer

[Bobydog]

7 hours ago, RichardColeman said:

Problem with aiming for high class tourists and the dismantling of the sex industry is that that is probably 6-8 million jobs out the window and no new industry to employ them on the horizon.

 

The aim for high class tourists and no more sex industry is a fine aim, but they should not even attempt anything like that until tourism is back to 32-40 million a year and they have something in place to support their goals and start the transferring the sex industry workers and soon to be 'poor' tourism support workers to better jobs 

I totally agree. It would be interesting to see the financial figures for the period 2016 to 2019 for Pattaya and surrounds MMmmmm

[Tropposurfer]

32 minutes ago, brucegoniners said:

These guys just don't get it and they'll never get it. The unicorn of the "high end foreign traveler" would have come here already if they existed for Thailand. But they don't.

 

These bozos better start taking what they can get or the country will never recover and it won't even be a good place to live for the foreigners who do live here.

 

Once you have a reputation it is almost impossible to shed it. Sex tourism is and always will be a large part of Thailand's tourist revenue. Cheap Chinese and Indians will too.

 

Scare them away and you'll have nothing. Which is pretty much what they have right now.

 

They keep making proclamations like that will magically make the unicorns appear out of thin air. It always makes me laugh.

 

I started coming here 23 years ago and have lived here for 21 and nothing has changed. And it never will change.

Yep same same bruce lol ???? 

[Walker88]

52 minutes ago, Confuscious said:

I was 3 weeks ago in South Jomtien, near Ban Saray.
Hig rise condominiums with price starting at 4 million baht.
Prices that are out of the reach of most (s)expats with a pension.
And most of these condominiums WERE SOLD OUT!!!!

Condominium owners families enjoying a day at the local swimming pool that looked like a swimming pool in Singapore.
Very clean and neat.
Very few, almost none, Esan hookers around.

 

In the evening, condominium owners started to return home from work in Ferrari's, Porsche's, Lambo's, etc.
All cars with price tags starting around 6 million baht.
Ordering a dinner at the condominium of a few 10 thousand baht for them and their family.

Face it.
The days of the (s)expats who came to Thailand to marry a Thai hooker from Pattaya or Phuket, buy a house upcountry in the rice fields of Nakhon Nowhere and going to the Maharat when somethings goes awry are over.
Thailand doesn't want you anymore.

1 single of these condominium owners spend more in 1 day in Thailand than a (s)expat and his Esan family in a whole year and they are not whining like you.

 

Are you not an economist?

 

A 4 million baht condo (~$120,000) is hardly out of reach of many pensioners. Perhaps the "30-170 million baht starting price" of Q on Sukhumvit in Bangkok is a bit out of reach for many, but 4 million is kind of chump change worldwide in terms of accommodation, even a second holiday home.

 

As for the returning Lambos, Ferraris and Porsches each evening, these cost a bit closer to the 20 million to 50 million baht range (Lambo Aventador). Starting at "6 million baht" might get a buyer two doors and a cigarette lighter, or a Toyota.

 

I might guess that your perception of what 'sexpats' or those who married a Thai woman spend is equally misinformed. Lots of 'sexpats' save for a year to play Two Week Millionaire when they visit Thailand, and when they leave another planeload is arriving. While I'm not one who married a Thai "hooker" (rather a rude term for someone born less fortunate than you), I do know a few and what they spend is likely a lot more than someone who shelled out for a $120K condo. In fact, I even know one who just ordered another Ferrari. Yes, 'another'.

[The Cipher]

2 hours ago, Walker88 said:

young men 20-35 years old, Asian and Caucasian

God dammit, I'm in this demographic.

 

It's usually me judging all of the old guys around, but my, how the tables have turned.

 

Note to self: Tell gf to dress more conservatively to avoid mischaracterization.

(This post is tongue in cheek)

[DAMac]

Clueless. Have any of these people actually stepped out of their chauffeur driven Govt cars and had a close look at what Thailand presents to a high-end visitor? Or to any visitor for that matter? These Govt officials are totally deluded if they think that there's anything world-class on display after one has left the cossetted luxury of 5-star resorts and hotels.

 

Phuket - supposedly Thailand's paradise island - and probably the epicentre of leisure tourism in the country, doesn't even have a viable public transport infrastructure - for the benefit of it's own people, far less for visitors. Outside of the Laguna complex and all of the other up-market resorts and hotel grounds, the island is filthy and not many seem to care. Tons of tossed trash litters the grass verges of all roads. Beaches are strewn with washed-up plastic. Roads are full of dangerous potholes. There are tons of spaghetti-like internet and power cables that festoon the built-up areas (lots of it hanging limply and dangerously on sidewalks).

 

While there are many upsides of spending time on the island, or indeed living there, one doesn't have to scratch much beyond the surface to understand that the place is a million miles away from being an upmarket tourist destination. From the billions of tourist dollars that have passed through the hands of those in charge of 'running' the island over the past 40 years, a fraction of that would seem to have been reinvested in the infrastructure, the facilities, and in its general up-keep and moderrnisation.

 

Sad to say that first-world ambition and third-world attitudes and competency don't align to create the intoxicating, heady mix of high-end visitor experiences.

[Bad boy 561]

7 hours ago, Gold Star said:

TAT is like a headless chicken, flailing around and bleeding to death in different directions:

 

- Let's get rid of the Chinese (Zero dollar tours)

- Let's bring in Pokemon Go' to save us

- Let's bring back the Chinese

- Let's make visas unnecessarily difficult

- Let's bring in the Indians to save us

- Let's close our Island parks

- Let's bring in high dollar tourists

- Let's charge tourists 10x more in parks

- Let's shut down Pattaya and make it all a family resort

- Let's have New Years entertainment

- Let's shut down any entertainment

- Let's make it nearly impossible to buy alcohol

- Let's create a tough list of restrictions and conditions for entry, insurance, and testing, make people pay for it all in advance, then change it every week

 

Enough!  Just quit squirming around with all the useless hype, remove the hurdles, and truly open the country.

 

Tourists will come, but it has to be easy. 

Let’s get rid of the overpriced insurance scam

[Kingfishing]

An uneducated man is like a leaf in the wind. Blowing which ever way. 

[tomacht8]

LOL completely utopian.

Fact: the international arrivals have been down 99% since 2019.

In the extended version, the WTTC calculates around 5 million Thais who are dependent on tourism income. The painful economic consequences for the normal Thai population are yet to come.

The whole TAT blah blah is only there to distract from there own ineptitude. Meanwhile, at international universities where one can study tourism in higher semesters, Thailand is being examined as a case study for a failed tourism policy.