Selling price comparables for home sales. Do they exist in Thailand

[Longwood50]

In the USA the Real Estate agents have access to the records filed with the government that show how much a home sold for.  If a person is purchasing a home in a particular area, a buyer can then research what "similar" homes of "similar" size sold for in the near past to get some idea of how much the homes are actually selling for. 

In Thailand, is there a place where a seller or buyer must record the contract that identifies the price?  If yes, where would someone obtain those records?  Would a real estate agent have access to them, if a private person does not?

 

[MRToMRT]

Essentially no. The land office does not make its data public. Bona fide real estate agents have their own records though and they consult with the condo JPs as well. 

You can request an unofficial valuation from a good REA and it will be quite accurate (basis will be two equal parties reaching agreement so they may take into account the vendors requested price of you are a buyer which is a bit of a con). There are also paid options whereby they document the property and research as well.

 

Fazwaz have an online valuation system if you sign up with them. Beware I inputted my current unit's details several times and got different answers, first one was 14 M, second one a week later was 9M and then a month later 7M. Amateurs.

 

 

[OneMoreFarang]

11 minutes ago, MRToMRT said:

Fazwaz have an online valuation system if you sign up with them. Beware I inputted my current unit's details several times and got different answers, first one was 14 M, second one a week later was 9M and then a month later 7M. Amateurs.

For some condominiums https://www.fazwaz.com/ has lots of data about lots of units. And the search function, with map, helps to see what is available at what price in the specific area. Not perfect, but I think it's a good start. 

[KhunLA]

Land office has the info, and will provide it.  That info being what they will assess the tax on, land, house, size, 1 or more stories.  It's actually fairly accurate, and ballpark value of land/house.

[Peterw42]

OP, as others have said, there is little to no accurate sales data. Often there are only two people who know what a property changed hands for, the buyer and the seller.

The land office has their appraised value but its often wildly inaccurate. In most cases its way lower (50%) than actual sales prices. The appraised value is just so you cant declare a stupid low sales price to reduce transfer tax.

My wife just sold a shop house in Bangkok for 2.5 M, the land offices appraisal was 1.5 M. (wife paid tax on 1.5M).

The bank lent the buyer 2.1 M, based on what amount they can payback each month, not based on any valuation.

The bank, the land office or the next door neighbors, have no idea what the property actually changed hands for. The sales data wont be published anywhere.

[4MyEgo]

11 hours ago, Longwood50 said:

In Thailand, is there a place where a seller or buyer must record the contract that identifies the price? 

From my understanding there is no such actual data base that records the contract price and then provides it to the public, why, I have no idea, it's a lucrative business to on sell, for example, Corelogic in Australia records all stamp duty transactions from the Office of State Revenue Department and on sells it to valuation and real estate agent firms as well as government departments, either by a yearly fee for all areas, or local areas of real estate agents so that everyone can compare sales prices within a given period, without it you would be in the dark from my experience.

 

As a retired Property Valuer, I would say as Thailand lacks such a registry/database, then it's open slather for "out of line sales" where you will have to be aware of, when comparing what sales information you gather over time from agents and the like, e.g. word of mouth.

 

My advice to you would be to concentrate on one area if your not already, and talk to as many agents as you can over time, then sooner or later you will pick up on what's what and what sales are "out of line", i.e. inflated for whatever reason they achieved a higher sales figure, which doesn't necessarily mean that they were worth that kind of money and are usually fraudulent sales prices.  

 

Another way to is to look at what's for sale and then revisit it a few months later to see what it sold for, that said, it is my understanding that sales can take long periods here, so if your patient, then you will eventually bag a sale and from what I have seen, the market here hasn't really been in an upward trend, so time is on your side, noting that if you do decide to sell, time will be against you, unless the market is on the up.

 

[CartagenaWarlock]

11 hours ago, Longwood50 said:

In the USA the Real Estate agents have access to the records filed with the government that show how much a home sold for. 

In the USA sale prices are public knowledge. You can get it from county records and now mostly online. Zillow publishes most sales prices. Real estate is almost like cash in the USA, You can walk into a bank and get a loan on your house/condo any time you want. After age 62, you can get a reverse mortgage and don't have to make any loan payment. And now, some companies (like Point) will give you cash for the future value of your home. I know some of my friends who bought houses for 300K twenty years ago in CA and now cashing in millions and still living on the same house. 

[ExpatOilWorker]

The appraisal value is listed at the below site.

 

http://property.treasury.go.th/pvmwebsite

 

Appraisal value and actual sales price are of course two different things, but you can use it as a base line.

Hipflat represent the other end of the scale, lofty for sale prices.

[Peterw42]

36 minutes ago, 4MyEgo said:

From my understanding there is no such actual data base that records the contract price and then provides it to the public, why, I have no idea, it's a lucrative business to on sell, for example, Corelogic in Australia records all stamp duty transactions from the Office of State Revenue Department and on sells it to valuation and real estate agent firms as well as government departments, either by a yearly fee for all areas, or local areas of real estate agents so that everyone can compare sales prices within a given period, without it you would be in the dark from my experience.

 

As a retired Property Valuer, I would say as Thailand lacks such a registry/database, then it's open slather for "out of line sales" where you will have to be aware of, when comparing what sales information you gather over time from agents and the like, e.g. word of mouth.

 

My advice to you would be to concentrate on one area, and talk to as many agents as you can over time, then sooner or later you will pick up on what's what and what sales are "out of line", i.e. inflated for whatever reason they achieved a higher sales figure, which doesn't necessarily mean that they were worth that kind of money and usually are fraudulent sales prices.  

 

I agree there is accurate and available data in Australia, but also a history of that data being manipulated by developers.

A typical case would be Acme developments builds a new estate, then Acme construction subsidiary would sell 3-4 blocks to Acme Holdings, at a record price, pay the duty etc. Then its on the public record, a new record price for the Acme acres estate.

[Peterw42]

44 minutes ago, CartagenaWarlock said:

In the USA sale prices are public knowledge. You can get it from county records and now mostly online. Zillow publishes most sales prices. Real estate is almost like cash in the USA, You can walk into a bank and get a loan on your house/condo any time you want. After age 62, you can get a reverse mortgage and don't have to make any loan payment. And now, some companies (like Point) will give you cash for the future value of your home. I know some of my friends who bought houses for 300K twenty years ago in CA and now cashing in millions and still living on the same house. 

But their kids wont be very happy, they dont inherit anything if the house has been sold back to the bank.

Live long enough and the bank owns your house, you have spent all the money, you are 80 years old broke and renting.

[Guest Isaanlife]

54 minutes ago, CartagenaWarlock said:

In the USA sale prices are public knowledge. You can get it from county records and now mostly online. Zillow publishes most sales prices. Real estate is almost like cash in the USA, You can walk into a bank and get a loan on your house/condo any time you want. After age 62, you can get a reverse mortgage and don't have to make any loan payment. And now, some companies (like Point) will give you cash for the future value of your home. I know some of my friends who bought houses for 300K twenty years ago in CA and now cashing in millions and still living on the same house. 

All the information in the US is listed in the MLS (Multiple Listing Service).

[4MyEgo]

8 minutes ago, Peterw42 said:

I agree there is accurate and available data in Australia, but also a history of that data being manipulated by developers.

A typical case would be Acme developments builds a new estate, then Acme construction subsidiary would sell 3-4 blocks to Acme Holdings, at a record price, pay the duty etc. Then its on the public record, a new record price for the Acme acres estate.

That is where a seasoned Property Valuer should be able to pick up the "out of line sales", regardless if they were residential, commercial or industrial sales.

 

I made it a rule of thumb for myself and juniors coming up the ranks that I would help, to always steer away from company to company transactions/sales, e.g. Acme Developments (previous owner) sold to ABC Milk, now any Property Valuer wouldn't know who ABC Milk was, that company could be owned as a subsidiary company of Acme Developments as you mentioned, and could have been sold at a higher than market value figure, for example to reduce their future capital gains, however it would be too costly and time consuming to for the Property Valuer to check if this was an intercompany-related sale, so one would have to check by comparing rates on a per square metre basis of similar land sizes within the area, or if it was a strata title apartment/condo, a rate per square metre of strata building area, excluding any mezzanine levels/areas within the apartment/condo, as they would be adding area to the already strata area, making it more valuable, which it is not, because the value is in the strata area, so 100m2 becomes 150m2 /x = more $'s on a rate per square metre.

 

Once you would compare the rate of land per square or the strata area of the apartment/condo you would know the reason why the rate per square metre is higher (out of line) compared to other sales, e.g. related intercompany or inter-family sale or increased area within a strata area, etc etc.

 

Mind boggling stuff at times, I remember picking up a high rise development selling off of the plan with the developer being a Chinese developer selling the units at premium prices and I wasn't able to put my head around the reason to it achieving premium sales prices, when comparing sales with other apartments/condos also selling off the plan, and you have to justify your evidence, not just say it's not worth it, and one night I was forced to sit myself down to read one of the 200 page contracts that I requested, because we don't usually get contracts to read, no more than a front page and any special conditions, usually on the 3rd or 4th page and because your always as flat out drinking like a lizard, anyways, long of the short, on page 64 there was this clause stating that the developer would refund 10% of the purchase price to the buyer/s if they settled on time when the development was completed, no doubt the buyers (mainly Chinese) picked up on this as a case incentive to buy, but that would leave the lender 10% short on the value of the property they would advance upon settlement, and of course if the market went belly up and they had to sell it, they would be looking for me to recoup that 10% the buyer pocketed upon settlement.