ICE vs EV, the debate thread

[Lacessit]

12 minutes ago, KhunLA said:

 

Better fire training and fire blankets should limit any problems.

 

 

This has to be the dumbest comment I have seen posted on this thread. Fire blankets will do absolutely nothing in a fire where the source is supplying its own fuel and oxygen. it's like saying a thermic lance, which can burn through a foot of concrete like a hot knife through butter, can be similarly restrained.

AFAIK personnel engaged in fighting EV fires are instructed to stay well away upwind, due to toxic gases such as hydrogen cyanide and hydrogen fluoride. Nothing in their extinguishing armory will fight an EV fire, so they let the fire burn itself out.

If the poster still has me on ignore, I regard it as a badge of honor.

[KhunLA]

26 minutes ago, Madgee said:

But how many thousands of registered EV's are sitting in a field somewhere in China with no mileage on just to get the sales incentives from the Chinese Gov.?   I'm not saying it amounts to 100's of thousands ...............or does it?

 

My stats are from them, but pay out by insurance company.

Real stats paid out.  

 

Consider those are old stats, and probably don't include any LFP fires, or which, I don't any have ever been report, and we're not talking on YT.  Real news.

Edited August 4, 2023 by KhunLA

[JBChiangRai]

11 minutes ago, Lacessit said:

This has to be the dumbest comment I have seen posted on this thread. 

Prince Charming.

Edited August 4, 2023 by JBChiangRai

[transam]

39 minutes ago, KhunLA said:

Just my dumb luck, the govt incentives were offered after MG moved to mostly LFP battery packs,  Not that I was going to send more than 1M on 4 wheels anyway.

 

The 200k extra, EV price over the ICE version of the MG ZS is worth the price just for performance upgrade.  Never having to go a petrol station and buy petrol again, just icing on the cake.

 

Don't think anyone has to worry about fires.  I mean really, 25 per 100k.  Nobody worries about ICEV fires, @ 60X the probability.  Now fires are a concern ... I think not.

 

Better fire training and fire blankets should limit any problems.

 

Longevity would be the only thing with older chemistry, as the LFP seem to last forever, if even half the suggested longevity is accurate..  I've never put 500k kms on any vehicle I owned, let alone 900k, before the battery starts to noticeably degrade.

 

I doubt if CS will be an issue here/TH, aside from weekends if not reserving, for about the next 5 ish years. 

 

And those with solar .... what's not to love.

"Better fire training", now come on, time for you to watch some YouTube...????

[KhunLA]

 

[transam]

20 minutes ago, KhunLA said:

 

Great in an underground car park, between cars or in a garage..............????

[Lacessit]

3 hours ago, JBChiangRai said:

Prince Charming.

IIRC, your first response to a post of mine was a single word. "Nonsense". You've changed your tune somewhat as you understood some inconvenient truths.

I call it as I see it. Tell me why I should suffer fools gladly.

 

[Lacessit]

3 hours ago, transam said:

Great in an underground car park, between cars or in a garage..............????

Exactly. An open air demonstration with maximum access, no information on the level of charge in the battery, and firefighters equipped with full breathing apparatus.

Not likely to be practical in an enclosed and crowded environment. It's called cherry-picking.

[transam]

4 minutes ago, Lacessit said:

Exactly. An open air demonstration with maximum access, no information on the level of charge in the battery, and firefighters equipped with full breathing apparatus.

Not likely to be practical in an enclosed and crowded environment. It's called cherry-picking.

Yep, Mr. MG's vid was probably taken at a disused airfield.........????

[sungod]

6 minutes ago, transam said:

Yep, Mr. MG's vid was probably taken at a disused airfield.........????

I already posted a video from an Australian Fire service stating the prevalence of fires in both types of vehicles were the same, but EVs were so much harder to deal with and needed extra protection for the fire fighters.

 

They still want to argue with the first responders ????

[JBChiangRai]

22 minutes ago, Lacessit said:

IIRC, your first response to a post of mine was a single word. "Nonsense". You've changed your tune somewhat as you understood some inconvenient truths.

I call it as I see it. Tell me why I should suffer fools gladly.

 

We should all be considerate and polite, just because I was impolite too, it doesn’t make it right.

[transam]

1 minute ago, sungod said:

I already posted a video from an Australian Fire service stating the prevalence of fires in both types of vehicles were the same, but EVs were so much harder to deal with and needed extra protection for the fire fighters.

 

They still want to argue with the first responders ????

It seems so..................????

[JBChiangRai]

6 minutes ago, sungod said:

I already posted a video from an Australian Fire service stating the prevalence of fires in both types of vehicles were the same, but EVs were so much harder to deal with and needed extra protection for the fire fighters.

 

They still want to argue with the first responders ????

Except the statistics say the prevalence is 60x more fires in ICE cars.

 

I can’t find your video, please post a link

[sungod]

Just now, JBChiangRai said:

Except the statistics say the prevalence is 60x more fires in ICE cars.

 

I can’t find your video, please post a link

Suggest you look for it, as you have already 'apparently' read it.

 

You managed to quote a dozen links of irrelevance (and denial) in reply , makes me think now you probably didn't watch it. You argue yet you dont seem to remember what you bare arguing about ????

 

Your final comment was that you could go on, and on and on and on, and on.....

 

Too which I replied you normally do- this post was reported and subsequently removed.

 

 

[transam]

1 minute ago, JBChiangRai said:

Except the statistics say the prevalence is 60x more fires in ICE cars.

 

I can’t find your video, please post a link

You still don't get the point............????

 

If your ride self destructed, which they do, as you pointed that out above, do you think your hand held fire extinguisher, or your garden hose could deal with it......?

No, don't answer that, you probably haven't got either, plus your ride won't self destruct..........????

[JBChiangRai]

1 minute ago, sungod said:

Suggest you look for it, as you have already 'apparently' read it.

 

You managed to quote a dozen links of irrelevance (and denial) in reply , makes me think now you probably didn't watch it. You argue yet you dont seem to remember what you bare arguing about ????

 

Your final comment was that you could go on, and on and on and on, and on.....

 

Too which I replied you normally do- this post was reported and subsequently removed.

 

 

I have researched EV fires in Australia and all I can find is how RARE they are. I don’t believe they approach anywhere near the prevalence of ICE vehicle fires

 

https://www.carexpert.com.au/car-news/ev-battery-fires-are-rare-but-on-australian-governments-agenda

 

I can’t find a single article, stating they have the same prevalence

[JBChiangRai]

3 minutes ago, transam said:

You still don't get the point............????

 

If your ride self destructed, which they do, as you pointed that out above, do you think your hand held fire extinguisher, or your garden hose could deal with it......?

No, don't answer that, you probably haven't got either, plus your ride won't self destruct..........????

I accept that in the unlikely event of a fire with an EV, it would be catastrophic.

 

But I know it’s highly improbable. If I was worried, I would charge my EV outside and not in the integral garage at my house.
 

by the way, I don’t have a fire extinguisher, or a blanket, because I consider the likelihood of a fire so improbable

[transam]

2 minutes ago, JBChiangRai said:

I have researched EV fires in Australia and all I can find is how RARE they are. I don’t believe they approach anywhere near the prevalence of ICE vehicle fires

 

https://www.carexpert.com.au/car-news/ev-battery-fires-are-rare-but-on-australian-governments-agenda

 

I can’t find a single article, stating they have the same prevalence

But you have stated they do happen, do you feel lucky..........

[transam]

Just now, JBChiangRai said:

I accept that in the unlikely event of a fire with an EV, it would be catastrophic.

 

But I know it’s highly improbable. If I was worried, I would charge my EV outside and not in the integral garage at my house.
 

by the way, I don’t have a fire extinguisher, or a blanket, because I consider the likelihood of a fire so improbable

Did you have Covid jabs, if so, why....? ????

[sungod]

1 minute ago, JBChiangRai said:

I have researched EV fires in Australia and all I can find is how RARE they are. I don’t believe they approach anywhere near the prevalence of ICE vehicle fires

 

https://www.carexpert.com.au/car-news/ev-battery-fires-are-rare-but-on-australian-governments-agenda

 

I can’t find a single article, stating they have the same prevalence

By your reply at the time it seemed you hadn't bothered  watching the video by Australia's finest, now it confirms it. Yet you manged quite a substantial reply, very surprised you cant remember.......selective memory perhaps?

[JBChiangRai]

Just now, transam said:

But you have stated they do happen, do you feel lucky..........

I don’t feel lucky or unlucky, for sure, if my EV caught fire, I would feel very unlucky

 

 

 

[JBChiangRai]

Just now, sungod said:

By your reply at the time it seemed you hadn't bothered  watching the video by Australia's finest, now it confirms it. Yet you manged quite a substantial reply, very surprised you cant remember.......selective memory perhaps?

Actually, I just watched one of the two videos I could find from Australia’s firefighters, and they didn’t mention prevalence

[BKKBike09]

On 7/30/2023 at 2:20 PM, Madgee said:

Just a thought:
My missus has an old Ford Fiesta and at the time and I had an old Suzuki Swift. Both cars were in water (on the drive) up to the door sills but luckily did not flood inside so came out unscathed. Are EV's more likely to suffer flood damage over a comparable ICE vehicle?

It's a good question. I think driving through flood water is one thing, letting any car stand in it for hours is another. The BKK deluge a few weeks back had me nervous. Water got up to the sills on my EV; it was over the exhaust pipe on the wife's car, although by then I'd sealed it with plastic bags and rubber bands. Water in the soi was much deeper so no option of driving to higher ground.

 

However EV seems fine and no sign of any corrosion that I can see with torch / mirror on a stock etc. Hasn't thrown up any error messages.

 

 

Owners' manual says

 

"The motor will be seriously damaged if it is submerged when crossing a flooded area. Such damaged is not covered by the vehicle's warranty. Other systems like transmission, driving and electrical may also be seriously damaged upon submersion. Such damage is not covered by the vehicle's warranty either."

 

But it also says:

 

"Do not drive in flooded areas where water is deeper than half the tire height."

 

 

 

[transam]

2 minutes ago, BKKBike09 said:

It's a good question. I think driving through flood water is one thing, letting any car stand in it for hours is another. The BKK deluge a few weeks back had me nervous. Water got up to the sills on my EV; it was over the exhaust pipe on the wife's car, although by then I'd sealed it with plastic bags and rubber bands. Water in the soi was much deeper so no option of driving to higher ground.

 

However EV seems fine and no sign of any corrosion that I can see with torch / mirror on a stock etc. Hasn't thrown up any error messages.

 

 

Owners' manual says

 

"The motor will be seriously damaged if it is submerged when crossing a flooded area. Such damaged is not covered by the vehicle's warranty. Other systems like transmission, driving and electrical may also be seriously damaged upon submersion. Such damage is not covered by the vehicle's warranty either."

 

But it also says:

 

"Do not drive in flooded areas where water is deeper than half the tire height."

 

 

 

With an EV, you are relying on GOOD sealed connections and applied sealant, which must be 100% perfect...

[JBChiangRai]

3 minutes ago, BKKBike09 said:

It's a good question. I think driving through flood water is one thing, letting any car stand in it for hours is another. The BKK deluge a few weeks back had me nervous. Water got up to the sills on my EV; it was over the exhaust pipe on the wife's car, although by then I'd sealed it with plastic bags and rubber bands. Water in the soi was much deeper so no option of driving to higher ground.

 

However EV seems fine and no sign of any corrosion that I can see with torch / mirror on a stock etc. Hasn't thrown up any error messages.

 

 

Owners' manual says

 

"The motor will be seriously damaged if it is submerged when crossing a flooded area. Such damaged is not covered by the vehicle's warranty. Other systems like transmission, driving and electrical may also be seriously damaged upon submersion. Such damage is not covered by the vehicle's warranty either."

 

But it also says:

 

"Do not drive in flooded areas where water is deeper than half the tire height."

 

 

 

Do you have an English manual? I’m impressed.

[BKKBike09]

5 minutes ago, JBChiangRai said:

Do you have an English manual? I’m impressed.

I downloaded it from BYD NZ. The Thai language manual is actually a translation of this, so it talks about stuff the TH market cars don't have (eg heated seats and dynamic range display, as opposed to the factory predicted range remaining).

 

[JBChiangRai]

35 minutes ago, sungod said:

I already posted a video from an Australian Fire service stating the prevalence of fires in both types of vehicles were the same, but EVs were so much harder to deal with and needed extra protection for the fire fighters.

 

They still want to argue with the first responders ????

I’m calling BS on your claim the Australian Fire service stating the prevalence of fires in both types of vehicles is the same.

 

I can’t find a single statistic to verify that, everything I find says the prevalence of fires in EV’s is massively lower than ICE cars.

 

Prove me wrong, and I will happily apologise.

[sungod]

14 minutes ago, JBChiangRai said:

Actually, I just watched one of the two videos I could find from Australia’s firefighters, and they didn’t mention prevalence

So you didn't watch the one I posted yet you still commented 'with authority"

[JBChiangRai]

2 minutes ago, BKKBike09 said:

I downloaded it from BYD NZ. The Thai language manual is actually a translation of this, so it talks about stuff the TH market cars don't have (eg heated seats and dynamic range display, as opposed to the factory predicted range remaining).

 

MG don’t have their act together on English manuals.  I can get a manual from England, but the software is different.

[JBChiangRai]

2 minutes ago, sungod said:

So you didn't watch the one I posted yet you still commented 'with authority"

Like I said, prove me wrong and I’ll apologize otherwise I’m calling your claim BS