ICE vs EV, the debate thread

[KhunLA]

4 hours ago, Yellowtail said:

What if you only drive less than a thousand km a month? 

 

With my 2.8l Fortuner, I spend less than 5K a year on service, and less than 20K a year on fuel. 

 

I reckon it would take y'all quite a long time to rack up 180k kms.  Aside from that, if getting 12-15 kpL, I guess you could do the math if you cared to.  Have fun.

 

Surprised you didn't say Celerio, @ 20 kpL, and only 330k to buy in.  Why I chose the ZS, less of a mango and papaya comparison.

 

Y'all have some silly comparisons & arguments about EVs.  

Have a nice day ... Peace Out

 

 

[Yellowtail]

5 hours ago, KhunLA said:

I reckon it would take y'all quite a long time to rack up 180k kms.  Aside from that, if getting 12-15 kpL, I guess you could do the math if you cared to.  Have fun.

 

Surprised you didn't say Celerio, @ 20 kpL, and only 330k to buy in.  Why I chose the ZS, less of a mango and papaya comparison.

 

Y'all have some silly comparisons & arguments about EVs.  

Have a nice day ... Peace Out

 

 

That's what I thought, thanks! 

[Rampant Rabbit]

On 1/13/2022 at 2:38 PM, JoePai said:

MG overtakes Honda, Renault and Mazda as UK sales hit record high

 

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2022/01/12/mg-overtakes-honda-renault-mazda-uk-sales-hit-record-high/ 

https://www.thecarexpert.co.uk/britains-best-selling-cars-of-2022/

[KhunLA]

MG can't seem to make them fast enough to feed the demand.  Impressive ????

 

"MG forced to end petrol car sales amid overwhelming consumer demand

 

MG Motor UK has told its franchised car retailers to stop taking orders for new petrol vehicles after “unprecedented demand” saw it fill its 2022 sales quota by the end of February."

 

https://www.am-online.com/news/manufacturer/2022/03/01/mg-motor-uk-ends-petrol-car-sales-amid-overwhelming-consumer-demand

[KhunLA]

Here's a sensible explanation why you should or shouldn't consider an EV.  

https://fb.watch/d6ISv38hed/

Agree, buy in price a huge factor, and if no govt incentives, wouldn't have considered it.  MG EP being about same or slightly higher than many ICEs in Thailand.   Not much of a comparison or negative for Thai pricing ICEs vs EVs.  Drastic difference in other countries.

 

If not solar charging or a lot of 'impatient' over the road driving in the future, then we would not be inclined to own an EV.  Those 2 factors eliminated, since being a solar charged & knock around town car. 

 

Depreciation after 8 yrs, I'm not seeing much of a difference, so for me that's a mute subject.  Don't expect to recoup much of any, and as the Mazda2 went to the daughter, so will the MG ZS/ICE.  By the time she needs it, it will be more valuable to her, than 1-200k baht in our pocket.

[KhunLA]

Whoa ... EV is looking better & better everyday.  E85 @ 36.09 today W T F

Means 91 & 95 are around 43 & 51 ? .... ????

 

If this keeps up, no incentives will be needed next year ... ????

[Bandersnatch]

The Dirty Truth about Combustion Engine Vehicles

 

 

[KhunLA]

20 minutes ago, Bandersnatch said:

The Dirty Truth about Combustion Engine Vehicles

Excellent    

 

Solar Energy & EVs .... 

 

 

 

[Bandersnatch]

20 hours ago, Bandersnatch said:

The Dirty Truth about Combustion Engine Vehicles

 

Unfortunately the data used in most comparisons of CO2 for ICE and EVs is out of date. They normally state that CO2 per km driven is very similar for EVs and Gasoline powered cars as researchers have traditional only been using CO2 produced by burning Gasoline in the car. More recent research has shown that "well to wheel" CO2 is actually far higher: 3,140 grams per litre for Gasoline see the study "Global carbon intensity of crude oil production" By comparison The International Council on Clean Transportation (ICCT) calculated that a battery electric car running on the UK grid electricity produces only 35g of CO2 per km

 

https://innovationorigins.com/en/producing-gasoline-and-diesel-emits-more-co2-than-we-thought/

[Lacessit]

According to reports from California ( Google is your friend ) 25% of charging stations there are non-functional. Apparently station reliability is a new issue.

 

That's OK if one is in a big city with plenty of them around in a short distance. However, if you are out in the boondocks with only 25 km left in the batteries, and your next charging station is down, what do you do?

 

I suppose one could put a portable, polluting, fossil-fueled generator in the trunk, then wait around for 6 - 7 hours while it trickles electrons in.

[KhunLA]

31 minutes ago, Lacessit said:

According to reports from California ( Google is your friend ) 25% of charging stations there are non-functional. Apparently station reliability is a new issue.

 

That's OK if one is in a big city with plenty of them around in a short distance. However, if you are out in the boondocks with only 25 km left in the batteries, and your next charging station is down, what do you do?

 

I suppose one could put a portable, polluting, fossil-fueled generator in the trunk, then wait around for 6 - 7 hours while it trickles electrons in.

I certainly don't run my ICE down to the last 2 or 3 liters (20-30 kms).  Since not recommend to consistently go below 20% capacity, that's 50-80 kms on most Ev's,  10% of the MG ZS would be 40 kms.

 

Maybe someone will chime in, and let us know 'when' you reserve time at a charger, will the app actually let you know if said chargers are operational.

 

If high risk driver, running near empty all the time, then invest in a decent Solar Generator.  

 

There's always a simply solution to simple problems

 

 

[Lacessit]

4 minutes ago, KhunLA said:

I certainly don't run my ICE down to the last 2 or 3 liters (20-30 kms).  Since not recommend to consistently go below 20% capacity, that's 50-80 kms on most Ev's,  10% of the MG ZS would be 40 kms.

 

Maybe someone will chime in, and let us know 'when' you reserve time at a charger, will the app actually let you know if said chargers are operational.

If you have 80 km charge left, and pull into a charger that is out of order with 300 km to go, and the same distance back, I guess you're between a rock and a hard place.

 

I don't know what the situation is in other countries, in Australia there is information on where chargers are, none on whether they are occupied or functional.

 

One of the funniest EV promotions I've seen is a Chinese Polestar which drove across the Nullarbor from Perth to Adelaide ( 2700 km ) to illustrate its environmental credentials. The promo neglected to mention it was trailed by a truck and diesel generator for recharging, although I suppose fueling the diesel generator with recycled cooking oil lessened the environmental impact.

[KhunLA]

20 minutes ago, Lacessit said:

If you have 80 km charge left, and pull into a charger that is out of order with 300 km to go, and the same distance back, I guess you're between a rock and a hard place.

 

I don't know what the situation is in other countries, in Australia there is information on where chargers are, none on whether they are occupied or functional.

 

One of the funniest EV promotions I've seen is a Chinese Polestar which drove across the Nullarbor from Perth to Adelaide ( 2700 km ) to illustrate its environmental credentials. The promo neglected to mention it was trailed by a truck and diesel generator for recharging, although I suppose fueling the diesel generator with recycled cooking oil lessened the environmental impact.

Better planning = better life experiences.   As I posted, simple solution for simple problems, though I should have added ... 'for simple people' 

 

What if scenarios ... please.   What if people weren't idiots.

[Lacessit]

2 hours ago, KhunLA said:

Better planning = better life experiences.   As I posted, simple solution for simple problems, though I should have added ... 'for simple people' 

 

What if scenarios ... please.   What if people weren't idiots.

You have a crystal ball that will tell you when a charging station is functional in remote areas?

Better planning would be to use an ICE for that kind of situation, yes?

[KhunLA]

1 hour ago, Lacessit said:

Better planning would be to use an ICE for that kind of situation, yes?

Ask me next year, I'll be better able to answer.  Although by then, as small as Thailand is, there should be more than enough chargers around, not to worry.   

 

Although, you are talking about CA, so completely irrelevant, as are most arguments of ICE vs EV in Thailand.  

 

MG charger every 150 kms .... nuff said.

 

 

[Lacessit]

1 hour ago, KhunLA said:

 

 

MG charger every 150 kms .... nuff said.

 

 

I was talking about Australia, chargers there and in California seem to have a high out of service rate.

MG charger every 150 km, great. Not so great if they are not working, or occupied by another EV owner. How long does a recharge take, anyway?

 

It reminds me of when I had a CNG tank on the Vios. Very inexpensive to run, until I worked out the cost of the annual inspection of a 25,000 psi tank was wiping out said savings.

On top of that, because there was usually only one or two CNG stations in the major cities, I could queue for up to an hour, because refilling with CNG is a lot slower than liquid fuel.

 

IMO there's still a few reefs for EV's to negotiate, as witness the cargo ship that is sitting at the bottom of the Atlantic after a German EV on board caught fire. Stored energy.

[macahoom]

33 minutes ago, Lacessit said:

IMO there's still a few reefs for EV's to negotiate, as witness the cargo ship that is sitting at the bottom of the Atlantic after a German EV on board caught fire. Stored energy.

Can you please provide a link that confirms "a German EV on board caught fire."?

 

Thank you.

[KhunLA]

1 hour ago, Lacessit said:

MG charger every 150 km, great. Not so great if they are not working, or occupied by another EV owner. How long does a recharge take, anyway?

some people plan/reserve, some don't ... oh well ????

 

Can't fix stupid.

[KhunLA]

38 minutes ago, macahoom said:

Can you please provide a link that confirms "a German EV on board caught fire."?

 

Thank you.

I don't think 1 container of cars catching on fire is going to sink a freighter.

 

Who put that news-blip out, EXXON ? 

 

Quick check, google, and NO cause of fire, though surely the batteries on board didn't help ???? once they caught on fire...oops

 

 

[Yellowtail]

7 minutes ago, KhunLA said:

some people plan/reserve, some don't ... oh well ????

 

Can't fix stupid.

Interesting that you are unable or unwilling to answer the questions, so you call the person asking stupid. 

 

You mean all the stupid people that don't have to plan their trip around where they are going to stop to charge their EV and don't have to worry about what they will do while they wait for their EV to charge, yes? 

 

There are plenty of great reasons to buy an EV, that there are charging stations every 150km where (assuming no one else is using it) you can charge your car, and maybe get some of those free snacks from MG while you wait.

[Lacessit]

25 minutes ago, KhunLA said:

I don't think 1 container of cars catching on fire is going to sink a freighter.

 

Who put that news-blip out, EXXON ? 

 

Quick check, google, and NO cause of fire, though surely the batteries on board didn't help ???? once they caught on fire...oops

 

 

Here you go:

 

https://www.cbsnews.com/video/cargo-ship-carrying-luxury-vehicles-to-us-sinks-in-atlantic/#x

 

The entire cargo of the ship was cars, not just one container.

 

Applying Occam's razor, the cause of the fire would be fairly obvious.

 

Empty ships don't usually catch fire, it's the cargo that is almost always the culprit.

[Yellowtail]

33 minutes ago, KhunLA said:

 

Who put that news-blip out, EXXON ? 

 

This is hilarious. Exxon will be charging the EVs for at least the next fifty years.

 

 

[macahoom]

10 minutes ago, Lacessit said:

Here you go:

 

https://www.cbsnews.com/video/cargo-ship-carrying-luxury-vehicles-to-us-sinks-in-atlantic/#x

 

The entire cargo of the ship was cars, not just one container.

 

Applying Occam's razor, the cause of the fire would be fairly obvious.

 

Empty ships don't usually catch fire, it's the cargo that is almost always the culprit.

Thanks, but that link is only news that the ship sank.

 

Do you have a link that confirms "a German EV on board caught fire."? 

[mackayae]

 

The Azorean harbourmaster told Reuters that lithium-ion batteries in electric cars ignited and the fire could only be extinguished with special equipment. Contrary to speculations in the media, it is unknown whether an electric car caused the fire.

[Lacessit]

Just now, macahoom said:

Thanks, but that link is only news that the ship sank.

 

Do you have a link that confirms "a German EV on board caught fire."? 

No. The cargo was mainly German vehicles, with some Bentleys and 15 Lamborghinis.

It's simple logic, there were 4000 luxury cars on that ship. I don't know what percentage were EV's, let's say there were 1000 of them. That's a hell of a lot of stored electrical energy, and it only takes one faulty cell for things to go pear-shaped.

IIRC, airlines limit batteries to 100 Wh, or 2 grams of lithium, and that is a drop in the bucket compared to what the ship was carrying.

[KhunLA]

42 minutes ago, Lacessit said:

Here you go:

 

https://www.cbsnews.com/video/cargo-ship-carrying-luxury-vehicles-to-us-sinks-in-atlantic/#x

 

The entire cargo of the ship was cars, not just one container.

 

Applying Occam's razor, the cause of the fire would be fairly obvious.

 

Empty ships don't usually catch fire, it's the cargo that is almost always the culprit.

A ship powered by diesel ... diesel cars and trucks never catch fire ... ????

 

Mute subject, as not coming from China, so who cares, unless waiting for a car in Americas

 

Has nothing to do with ICE vs EV.

[transam]

1 minute ago, KhunLA said:

A ship powered by diesel ... diesel cars and trucks never catch fire ... ????

 

Mute subject, as not coming from China, so who cars, unless waiting for a car in Americas

On my FB page today it had mini video clips to look at, one was an MG with flames coming out of a front inside door panel, plastic dropping off, looked like where a speaker would be. I tried to download it but failed. ???? 

[Yellowtail]

1 minute ago, transam said:

On my FB page today it had mini video clips to look at, one was an MG with flames coming out of a front inside door panel, plastic dropping off, looked like where a speaker would be. I tried to download it but failed. ???? 

That was from Exxon 

[Yellowtail]

8 minutes ago, KhunLA said:

A ship powered by diesel ... diesel cars and trucks never catch fire ... ????

 

Mute subject, as not coming from China, so who cars, unless waiting for a car in Americas

Did they not say white smoke? Diesel burns black. 

[KhunLA]

48 minutes ago, Yellowtail said:

Interesting that you are unable or unwilling to answer the questions, so you call the person asking stupid. 

 

You mean all the stupid people that don't have to plan their trip around where they are going to stop to charge their EV and don't have to worry about what they will do while they wait for their EV to charge, yes? 

 

There are plenty of great reasons to buy an EV, that there are charging stations every 150km where (assuming no one else is using it) you can charge your car, and maybe get some of those free snacks from MG while you wait.

I didn't call the person asking stupid, that would be rude.   Implied people not planning their trip properly stupid.  It's not rocket science.

 

Y'all want to be anti EV, fine ... UP2U, but the continued 'what if' scenarios are silly.  What if WW3 breaks out & theirs no oil, or the planet runs out.  Didn't that almost happen in 1973 ? 

 

Grid goes down and you can't pump petrol.  Laos & Myanmar get pis sed at TH, and cut off the natural gas supply ... oh c r a p.  What if ... please.

 

I guess me, EVs & solar have nothing to worry about.  There's planning.  Nice trailer with solar panels, charge up during the day, drive at night, have a few solar generators.  

 

ICE vs EV ... it's a no brainer all the way around.

 

Have a nice day ... PEACE OUT