ICE vs EV, the debate thread

[ExpatOilWorker]

2 hours ago, JBChiangRai said:

All diesels sound like tractors from outside.

 

 

An MG4 EV with 4 exhaust pipes sound like.....a nutter on wheels 🛞?

 

[KhunLA]

10 minutes ago, Yellowtail said:

I am not attacking EVs or you for having an EV, I am only trying to discuss what I think if a decent concept.

It's too hot to camp in TH, IMHO, especially with a bungalow in nakhon nowhere being so cheap.   Cool season maybe, but that's also smog season, so I'll pass on that also.

 

When younger, yea, used to camp quite a bit, even in my late 30's.  But I want a comfy mattress & AC now.   And I'm not walking around at night, (snakes) when I need to P.

[JBChiangRai]

2 minutes ago, ExpatOilWorker said:

An MG4 EV with 4 exhaust pipes sound like.....a nutter on wheels 🛞?

 

 

Finally we agree on something

[KhunLA]

3 minutes ago, ExpatOilWorker said:

An MG4 EV with 4 exhaust pipes sound like.....a nutter on wheels 🛞?

 

My E-MC has 'Harley mode'

 

 

[KhunLA]

22 minutes ago, Yellowtail said:

I am not attacking EVs or you for having an EV, I am only trying to discuss what I think if a decent concept.

You're ignoring earlier posts, as already discussed.

 

Along with too many variables.   Might get away with a long weekend, if not too far off the beaten track, as need enough to get back to a CS.

 

IF conservative with the AC, use at night to sleep.   Occasional use of V2L for coffee and or meals on induction cooker, or rehydrating & heating freeze dried meals.

[Fruit Trader]

37 minutes ago, atpeace said:

Here is why it is free IMO and my situation.  I needed extra solar production to power the house during cloudy days and more importantly times that I use a lot of energy.  I think most people would install 2-5x their expected energy needs.  I installed 2x (6.5 KW) my ~3kw draw during certain times of the day.

 

I don't have an EV but told my sister and brother  in-laws yesterday they can charge their EVs anytime during the daytime for free at my place.  Why not - it is free for me.  

 

Your analogy of an AC and a fridge doesn't work if you slow down and think it through.  I could tell you why but I have a feeling you would just argue.  You can figure it out.  Hint - does your fridge and AC communicate with your solar system and determine when to and when not to draw power and even if they do wouldn't your food spoil and you would be quite hot at times if either stopped drawing energy.

 

You seem determined to make a point without thinking through your logic.  What you stated definitely makes sense for a  few individuals but not for most with solar. 

 

 

 

 

 

It really is simple and applies to anyone who spends money on a solar system. The only exception would be if the system came free of charge.

 

Every watt used comes at a cost until ROI is achieved. No amount of smart communicating with the solar system changes that fact.

 

You can of course tell family to charge for free when your system is derating but that does not change the fact that there's cost before ROI is achieved.

 

Try this logic. People who sell back to the grid expect to get paid.

On the smart consumption subject, we actually address directly via wired comms our solar inverter to recover live data remotely. Limiting a device consumption based on the inverters derating value would be quite easy but would not change the fact that there is a cost/watt involved until ROI is achieved.

 

 

 

 

[KhunLA]

11 minutes ago, ExpatOilWorker said:

An MG4 EV with 4 exhaust pipes sound like.....a nutter on wheels 🛞?

 

No different from ICEV owners that do the same thing.   Some out of the factory with fake exhaust pipes showing, even though only have 1 pipe of the engine.   

[Yellowtail]

1 minute ago, KhunLA said:

You're ignoring earlier posts, as already discussed.

 

Along with too many variables.   Might get away with a long weekend, if not too far off the beaten track, as need enough to get back to a CS.

 

IF conservative with the AC, use at night to sleep.   Occasional use of V2L for coffee and or meals on induction cooker, or rehydrating & heating freeze dried meals.

Sorry, I'll try to memorize everything you post going forward so as not to inconvenience you in the future. 

[KhunLA]

3 minutes ago, Yellowtail said:

Sorry, I'll try to memorize everything you post going forward so as not to inconvenience you in the future. 

We've repeated ourselves more than enough times, and one would think it sunk in by now.  I'm sure I posted the same numerous times.

 

Only repeat myself for curious new folks

[Yellowtail]

2 minutes ago, KhunLA said:

We've repeated ourselves more than enough times, and one would think it sunk in by now.  I'm sure I posted the same numerous times.

 

Only repeat myself for curious new folks

Again. I'm sorry, I'll try to memorize everything you post going forward so as not to inconvenience you in the future. 

[Fruit Trader]

23 minutes ago, ExpatOilWorker said:

An MG4 EV with 4 exhaust pipes sound like.....a nutter on wheels 🛞?

 

 

You can buy an underbody exhaust sound speaker to go with those pipes. Smoke emitting device coming soon.

 

 

[KhunLA]

1 minute ago, Yellowtail said:

Again. I'm sorry, I'll try to memorize everything you post going forward so as not to inconvenience you in the future. 

Unlike some folks, I read & understood that the first time  ... 

 

Just think, conversations about ICEV vs EV or EVs in TH, instead of ...

... fires

... ROI of solar

... exploding wet batteries

... LFP life expectancy

... dead batteries after warranty

... more expensive than ICEV

... explode on speed bumps

... no CS

 

[Yellowtail]

2 minutes ago, Fruit Trader said:

 

You can buy an underbody exhaust sound speaker to go with those pipes. Smoke emitting device coming soon.

 

 

I had something similar: 

 

[Yellowtail]

1 minute ago, KhunLA said:

Unlike some folks, I read & understood that the first time  ... 

 

Just think, conversations about ICEV vs EV or EVs in TH, instead of ...

... fires

... ROI of solar

... exploding wet batteries

... LFP life expectancy

... dead batteries after warranty

... more expensive than ICEV

... explode on speed bumps

... no CS

 

You're right of course. Sorry I tried to discuss the potential advantages of an EV-RV

[KhunLA]

Just now, Yellowtail said:

You're right of course. Sorry I tried to discuss the potential advantages of an EV-RV

That's a good topic, and they make them, or DIY.   Stated a few times, I'd go the E-RV route if ever returned to USA.   I few high tech solar panels producing 3 or 4 kWh an hour would work nicely keeping battery charged up enough to live in.  If conservation, and weather cooperating.

 

Keeps on crossing my mind here, till I come back to reality, as a bungalow with a view in nakhon nowhere is too inexpensive.  If younger, I'd definitely do a DIY E-RV, but would be silly waste of money at near 70 yrs old.

[Yellowtail]

2 minutes ago, KhunLA said:

That's a good topic, and they make them, or DIY.   Stated a few times, I'd go the E-RV route if ever returned to USA.   I few high tech solar panels producing 3 or 4 kWh an hour would work nicely keeping battery charged up enough to live in.  If conservation, and weather cooperating.

 

Keeps on crossing my mind here, till I come back to reality, as a bungalow with a view in nakhon nowhere is too inexpensive.  If younger, I'd definitely do a DIY E-RV, but would be silly waste of money at near 70 yrs old.

Off-topic

[ExpatOilWorker]

39 minutes ago, JBChiangRai said:

 

Finally we agree on something

It probably sounds like a gay farting 😉 😜 😘. 

Shouldn't you be busy gloating or are u still lost?

[ExpatOilWorker]

32 minutes ago, KhunLA said:

No different from ICEV owners that do the same thing.   Some out of the factory with fake exhaust pipes showing, even though only have 1 pipe of the engine.   

This is the equivalent for ICE cars.

[JBChiangRai]

8 minutes ago, ExpatOilWorker said:

It probably sounds like a gay farting 😉 😜 😘. 

Shouldn't you be busy gloating or are u still lost?

 

Maybe in a week

[CallumWK]

34 minutes ago, Fruit Trader said:

 

You can buy an underbody exhaust sound speaker to go with those pipes. Smoke emitting device coming soon.

 

 

 

You think EV owners now WANT their superior cars sound like tractors?

 

[JBChiangRai]

17 minutes ago, ExpatOilWorker said:

It probably sounds like a gay farting 😉 😜 😘. 

Shouldn't you be busy gloating or are u still lost?

 

I bow to your more adventurous experience

[JBChiangRai]

3 minutes ago, CallumWK said:

 

You think EV owners now WANT their superior cars sound like tractors?

 

 

Some EV's have a range of sounds available, the Porsche Taycan optional sound pack sounds like a spaceship.

[Yellowtail]

5 minutes ago, JBChiangRai said:

 

Some EV's have a range of sounds available, the Porsche Taycan optional sound pack sounds like a spaceship.

Spaceships don't make sounds. 

[JBChiangRai]

10 minutes ago, Yellowtail said:

Spaceships don't make sounds. 

 

They do inside, and they do when in the atmosphere.

 

I know they make sounds because they do on Star Trek.

[KhunLA]

Steering back to ICEV vs EV ... here's  fine example why I'd never buy another underperforming, overpriced ICEV, of any version.

 

I get the impression, ICEV shoppers don't look at specs.  Something I do, compare specs before I even walk into a showroom.   Why waste my time looking at under spec'd vehicles.

 

Which would you choose  ... and why ?  

Or post 2 like, apples & apples cars for comparison, and convince me the ICEV is a better value.

 

My earlier 700k baht car comparison didn't even look at specs, just the petrol savings.

 

 

 

[KhunLA]

52 minutes ago, Yellowtail said:

Off-topic

Not really.   Depending on what we are comparing.   Take the MG Maxus 9 van, & convert vs a Toyota comfy van and convert, adding panels & ESS.   All things being equal on the interior, non power part.

 

MG Maxus 9 is pricey, 2.5M range, but very plush inside.

Toyota Libre from 1.7 - 2.2M + adding a solar system w/ESS

 

Though a shame & waste to rip out the interiors of both. 

[Cameroni]

3 hours ago, Gweiloman said:

Serious question. Have you driven an EV? The first time I did, I had a big smile on my face. The smoothness, silence, linear and instant torque. I was amazed. 
 

Now, if you have and still prefer an ICEV, that’s fine, up to you. But coming on here and telling EV owners that EVs are inferior based on some issues that occur rarely (driving around Thailand worrying about range, risk of fire) makes it a little difficult to take you too seriously.

 

At least you’re not a troll like that oil and gas guy.

 

I have of course. But the silence did not surprise me because I owned a Lexus ES300 Hybrid before. I find the near total silence unhelpful and even dangerous. Sometimes I did not know if the engine was on or not. In terms of performance there are no issues, you're right, apart from not having the top speed power of ICE cars, which is not an issue in Thailand. Something you can only remedy anyway with BEVs if you pay for the very expensive models.

 

But range and the risk of fire are serious problems. If you can't park in a garage in South Korea because of the risk of fire, that's clearly not a non-issue, that's something that affects EV drivers there. And I would always be concerned about range with a BEV because I drive long distances. 

 

Some BEVs are fine vehicles of course, but given the choice between a good ICE car or a good Hybdrid and a good  BEV, I would choose the petrol or Hybrid car every day, due to the driving experience and range advantages.

 

Admittetedly I have not driven the Taycan, though seeing Tesla's issue with their flagship on the Nuerburg Ring, something  ICE's just don't suffer from, perhaps even the Taycan would have to be tested thoroughly first.

[josephbloggs]

9 hours ago, Cameroni said:

 

You're so full of BS, it's unreal. This is a review of the MG ZS EV, a BEV apparently:

 

 

"Also, weirdly, the car had a habit of making strange noises. Letting the car auto-brake in traffic, it made a terrible *CLUNK* noise when it came to a full stop. I have no explanation for this, however, I heard the same noise when I accelerated heavy from a complete stop.

 

https://gizmodo.com.au/2022/10/mg-zs-ev-review/

 

As for the Touareg being "rattly":

 

NEW TOUAREG SO QUIET

 

"Today for the first time I let the VW have a bit of speed, and surprised how quiet it is.

At between 140 and 150 mph there is such a small amount of road, wind or engine noise.

My wife and I could hold a normal quiet conversation, she was shocked when she saw the speedo at 145mph and was so serene..

Quieter than my last X5, RS6, BMW 740.

Quite impressed."

 

https://www.mytreg.com/threads/new-touareg-so-quiet.87370/

 

 

As I said "luxury" diesels have a lot of sound deadening. The engine is still noisy and rattly though - you can't get away from that with a diesel, you just have tons of sound deadening material.

 

Quote

Nor was the Touareg "smelly". All totally untrue nonsense.

So you'd happily sit behind the exhaust pipes would you?

[ExpatOilWorker]

1 hour ago, JBChiangRai said:

 

Maybe in a week

You didn't see the comment on the weight gain of the 1,000 lbs gorilla?

 

I have a feeling August sales numbers will be such a close call that we are within the error of reliability between car250, autolife and DLT. Time will tell.

 

[ExpatOilWorker]

3 hours ago, atpeace said:

EV charging really wasn't in my plans but I realized after installation that it wasn't going to be an issue because the way solar produces energy.  I think many that don't have solar have a hard time wrapping their head around extra benefits that pop up after installation. 

 

For example after 8am in my case ( North facing panels - BTW-  IMO are best) I am able produce 1-4KW excess energy.  Can charge an EV and run water pumps that I usually used rarely because they use lots of watts, etc.  There isn't an extra cost because the extra solar production is needed for periods of high energy usage or little solar production when the EV and solar pumps would not be drawing energy.

 

Currently it is sunny at 8:30am and probably have about 4 KW of solar production waiting to find an appliance or whatever that needs energy.  Only wished I had a 10kw inverter vs 6.2 and about 4 more panels so I could fast charge an EV.  Not a big deal but the extra production would have only been around 20k baht.

What are you using for water heater or is it cold 🥶 showers only in ur household?