6 hours ago, anyone said:

If you will be locked in the room with cats for a few years, will you learn cat's language? Sure NO 555

I am fluent in Chihuahua.

In the first two or so years of learning Thai, a lot of the locals would say "พุดไทยเก็ง".  I was pleased.   Only later did I conquer the tones.  That's when more of the locals, if they said anything, would say "พุดไทยชัดๆ"

 

For me, the secret was finding a Thai who learned Thai from her mother who was a teacher.  She wanted to further her English......I wanted to learn Thai.  We'd swap 2 hours of English for 2 of Thai....one on one.  When I wanted to know how to pronounce difficult sounds (ง or เลือ as compared to ลือ, for example) I'd make her speak in half speed with me doing a closeup on her lips/face.  I feel comfortable with my pronunciation...although I've never been able to nail down the difference between ต and ด.

FWIW:  I have profound hearing loss and wear hearing aids, age 72.  Don't let anyone tell you you're too old or you're tone deaf.  

4 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

If that was his choice to live like that who is anyone else to denigrate him for it? It's no business of anyone else.

I certainly never went out of my way to be like a Thai. I was there for my benefit, not anyone else's.

 

However, if he hadn't made his son learn English then he was a bit sad IMO.

What happened to kids learning English at school?

I think you have problems. Many foreigners who don't speak Thai come up with all sorts of bizarre excuses usually trying to denigrate the language.

They also are the same people who call for immigrants to their own home country to speak their language.

You're  even trying to make these people speak English..

Yes it's his choice  and what a sad choice to make.

If you live  ìn a country, you really should make an effort to learn the language. His son spoke some English. Do what?

Why would he need to learn English? It's a separate issue....he is going to school in Thailand. His father wasn't English and the boy was Thai...he went to Thai school and lived in Thailand.

 

European languages are vastly different to Thai and other tonal Asian languages. Thai has complex vowels, and the subtlety of tone is incredible. The Thai word "tong" can mean stomach, gold or a flag. The only way to really tell the difference is seeing the Thai script.

OTOH, Thais do struggle with the complex consonants common in English. Ask a Thai to pronounce words such as paint or refrigerator.

My GF and I trade words almost daily, it's one way for us both to improve.

 

If you want to learn Thai, good luck to you.

My wife sent me to buy cooked Moo (pork) from a street vendor. After a full minute of saying Moo to this man with absolutely nil comprehension from him, I decided I’ll pass on a language even Thais don’t understand. I had a few other experiences of this type….so I’ll pass on learning a language nobody speaks in other countries. French is useful, Spanish is spoken in many countries, but Thai, no thanks. I find Thais when asked if they speak English say Nit Noi, but usually they speak quite a bit and I praise them for their knowledge. Upon that their faces light up and their confidence is lifted.

English is the universal language. Though I’ve had a few moments in some countries small towns where nobody spoke a lick…..in Mongolia asking for a hotel for the night, where buildings built in the Russian style, a concrete box with no signs and very very cold  weather was pretty difficult.
We all need a pill we take before we sleep, and in the morning we have a working knowledge of the local language. So if you create this pill, please make another to eliminate jet lag….you will be a billionaire in five minutes.

 

20 minutes ago, Mansell said:

If you want to learn Thai, good luck to you.

My wife sent me to buy cooked Moo (pork) from a street vendor. After a full minute of saying Moo to this man with absolutely nil comprehension from him, I decided I’ll pass on a language even Thais don’t understand. I had a few other experiences of this type….so I’ll pass on learning a language nobody speaks in other countries. French is useful, Spanish is spoken in many countries, but Thai, no thanks. I find Thais when asked if they speak English say Nit Noi, but usually they speak quite a bit and I praise them for their knowledge. Upon that their faces light up and their confidence is lifted.

English is the universal language. Though I’ve had a few moments in some countries small towns where nobody spoke a lick…..in Mongolia asking for a hotel for the night, where buildings built in the Russian style, a concrete box with no signs and very very cold  weather was pretty difficult.
We all need a pill we take before we sleep, and in the morning we have a working knowledge of the local language. So if you create this pill, please make another to eliminate jet lag….you will be a billionaire in five minutes.

 

 

Did you stand there repeating the word endlessly, increasing in volume, waving your arms about? Oinking like a pig? I would have loved to see it. 
 

This was my main motivation to learn the language because I didn’t want to be that guy pointing and waving their arms about at the side of the road. 
 

 

38 minutes ago, Mansell said:

If you want to learn Thai, good luck to you.

My wife sent me to buy cooked Moo (pork) from a street vendor. After a full minute of saying Moo to this man with absolutely nil comprehension from him, I decided I’ll pass on a language even Thais don’t understand. I had a few other experiences of this type….so I’ll pass on learning a language nobody speaks in other countries. French is useful, Spanish is spoken in many countries, but Thai, no thanks. I find Thais when asked if they speak English say Nit Noi, but usually they speak quite a bit and I praise them for their knowledge. Upon that their faces light up and their confidence is lifted.

English is the universal language. Though I’ve had a few moments in some countries small towns where nobody spoke a lick…..in Mongolia asking for a hotel for the night, where buildings built in the Russian style, a concrete box with no signs and very very cold  weather was pretty difficult.
We all need a pill we take before we sleep, and in the morning we have a working knowledge of the local language. So if you create this pill, please make another to eliminate jet lag….you will be a billionaire in five minutes.

 

So you're the only person in Thailand without Google translate on your phone?

19 minutes ago, recom273 said:

Did you stand there repeating the word endlessly, increasing in volume, waving your arms about? Oinking like a pig? I would have loved to see it. 
 

This was my main motivation to learn the language because I didn’t want to be that guy pointing and waving their arms about at the side of the road.

Very good.

 

It can backfire though. I learned Thai while quite young but never went to Thailand from 1991 to 2015, consequently my Thai became quite rusty. Since then I have often spoken Thai when there and it sometimes results in people refusing to speak English to me thereafter because they assume I am fluent and it puts me under a lot of pressure. The key is to learn to pronounce the words properly. When they tell you that you "put chut" (speak clearly) you know you are on the right track.

On 1/10/2022 at 3:39 AM, GammaGlobulin said:

My tones are good, all five of them, especially my rising tone.

 

My vocabulary is adequate for everyday life.

 

My reading is OK, but only after much hard work on ANKI.

 

Still, no matter how fluent my language skills might be, as usual, nobody understands me in any language I speak.

 

Some guys are just unable to to communicate, in any language....

 

 

What is ANKI?

10 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

I learned enough Thai to get by in a few years and I wasn't even living there. Simple sentences dealing with such necessities as "where is the toilet" and being able to go shopping etc are all that some of us needed to live in LOS.

 

I never had a problem in restaurants because I learned to ask for fried rice chicken, and they serve that in just about every restaurant I ever went in. Didn't need any more choices than that.

In food courts I'd get something else, but they usually had menus in English, or pictures of the choices.

Sorry to tell you but 'where is the toilet', 'numbers', 'chicken rice' are at level 1 beginner. I learnt all that in my first Thai lesson.

 

To carry a real conversation is a different level.

 

 

 

3 hours ago, Lacessit said:

The Thai word "tong" can mean stomach, gold or a flag. The only way to really tell the difference is seeing the Thai script

Context is usually enough. My colleagues would sometimes correct the tone. They are normally too "kreng jai" to do so but I keep asking them and then some will comply 

30 minutes ago, EricTh said:

Sorry to tell you but 'where is the toilet', 'numbers', 'chicken rice' are at level 1 beginner. I learnt all that in my first Thai lesson.

 

To carry a real conversation is a different level.

 

 

 

People are very bad at self assessing their language proficiency level (even in their own tongue!). 

There are proper ways of doing it and various scales available.

• 0 – No Proficiency. At this lowest level, there is basically no knowledge of the language. ...
• 1 – Elementary Proficiency. ...
• 2 – Limited Working Proficiency. ...
• 3 – Professional Working Proficiency. ...
• 4 – Full Professional Proficiency. ...
• 5 – Native / Bilingual Proficiency.

This is a scale for the workplace. In Thailand they are fond of judging their English scores in TOIEC, IELTS and TOEFL.

TOEIC however turned out to be corrupt .

Anyone can go to a Language school and get an idea of their level.

Beginner

Elementary

Pre-intermediate

Intermediate 

Post-Intermediate

Advanced

Or

Starter

Elementary 

Conversational

Fluent

Bi-lingual.

 

All these have pretty definite criteria.

1 minute ago, kwilco said:

People are very bad at self assessing their language proficiency level (even in their own tongue!). 

There are proper ways of doing it and various scales available.

• 0 – No Proficiency. At this lowest level, there is basically no knowledge of the language. ...
• 1 – Elementary Proficiency. ...
• 2 – Limited Working Proficiency. ...
• 3 – Professional Working Proficiency. ...
• 4 – Full Professional Proficiency. ...
• 5 – Native / Bilingual Proficiency.

This is a scale for the workplace. In Thailand they are fond of judging their English scores in TOIEC, IELTS and TOEFL.

TOEIC however turned out to be corrupt .

Anyone can go to a Language school and get an idea of their level.

Beginner

Elementary

Pre-intermediate

Intermediate 

Post-Intermediate

Advanced

Or

Starter

Elementary 

Conversational

Fluent

Bi-lingual.

 

All these have pretty definite criteria.

I think it's worth bearing in mind that those who are better at learning g a language also learn the history and culture of that country. It helps you make sense of things.

There is the expat theory of linguistics.

 

So long as you repeat word in English loud enough,  they will eventually understand.

20 minutes ago, kwilco said:

Context is usually enough. My colleagues would sometimes correct the tone. They are normally too "kreng jai" to do so but I keep asking them and then some will comply 

Ask them to teach you to say "Who sells chicken eggs"?

8 minutes ago, ozimoron said:

Ask them to teach you to say "Who sells chicken eggs"?

We used to spend a lot of time exchanging tongue twisters and tone exercises.

If I attempted to say that, they would immediately recognise the phrase and show me the tones. I would usually get that sort of thing right after a while.

Try the 'new wood burns well doesn't it.?" one, that is the most common.

There are also some very rude ones.

If you want to get an idea how tones can go wrong, try changing stress on English words. Even though the word is correct the meaning becomes unfathomable. 

Thai is a non stress language. That is another reason Westerners have difficulty with it....they keep putting stress into the words and using tones for questions by raising the tone at the end of a sentence....Thais don't do that.

4 minutes ago, kwilco said:

We used to spend a lot of time exchanging tongue twisters and tone exercises.

If I attempted to say that, they would immediately recognise the phrase and show me the tones. I would usually get that sort of thing right after a while.

Try the 'new wood burns well doesn't it.?" one, that is the most common.

There are also some very rude ones.

If you want to get an idea how tones can go wrong, try changing stress on English words. Even though the word is correct the meaning becomes unfathomable. 

Thai is a non stress language. That is another reason Westerners have difficulty with it....they keep putting stress into the words and using tones for questions by raising the tone at the end of a sentence....Thais don't do that.

PS the consonant on chicken and egg is different.

8 hours ago, ozimoron said:

I

I use books to actually learn Thai, especially grammar but I found those videos to be an excellent source for learning how to pronounce the language and use it in every day conversation. Maybe it's easier for me because I learned Thai almost 40 years ago and have been married to 2 Thais, also one Filipina. If you think the words she is using are too formal I;d question where you are learning your Thai. Thais can easily pick it if you learned from a bar girl. Most of them are Isaan and speak a Thai dialect of Lao.

 

I used to speak those words taught by Thai teachers many years ago but Thai people would laugh at me and then they started switching to speaking English instead.

 

Then I realized that all those formal words are not practical in real life and started to learn practical Thai from real Thai people. Now they don't laugh at me anymore.

 

This is one of the Thai series that I watch to improve my practical Thai. See how much you can understand without the subtitles.

 

 

From the perpective of a Thai native speaker. Worth a read but don't let the edge cases deter you.

 

https://multilingual.com/articles/who-sells-chicken-eggs-cracking-thai-localization/.

 

 

35 minutes ago, EricTh said:

 

I used to speak those words taught by Thai teachers many years ago but Thai people would laugh at me and then they started switching to speaking English instead.

 

Then I realized that all those formal words are not practical in real life and started to learn practical Thai from real Thai people. Now they don't laugh at me anymore.

 

This is one of the Thai series that I watch to improve my practical Thai. See how much you can understand without the subtitles.

 

 

I'm not trying to be a pain in your backside Eric, but the above video is about 99% standard Thai, which is what you learn in Thai language classes and through book study. The only conversational components in the video which you might not pick up in the class room are the conversational flourishes and expletives and the small amount of informal/slang terms. But there's no way a non-native student is going to pick up on this without first having a solid foundation in standard Thai. That's why I take exception to your complaints that formal study is of little value because "people don't talk like that in real life." Also, you keep talking about being ridiculed for using vocabulary learned in language class. I've never had that experience, ever.

 

People learn in different ways and even have to learn how to learn.

Thinking your way of learning is the only way just shows what you haven't learned.

There are of course some people who are there own worst enemies and just don't have the inate skills.. 

I have had to develop language courses for adults of various nationalities  and some are so easy it's a breeze. The 2 worst nationalities? The Spanish and the Americans.

On 1/9/2022 at 7:02 PM, ChipButty said:

I would say one of the first things to learn, is to count that helps a lot,

I used to write down 5 words a day and if I was driving I would have it on the dashboard so I could see it,

 

The 5 words I used to pick would be things I would be doing everyday

Make a list,

Numbers

Colours

House

Car

Cat 

Dog

I think everybody goes to the shop at least once a day, like me I buy a packet of cigarettes or a bottle of milk, learn to ask in thai   

I had about 6 weeks or so of "survival" language training courtesy of the US Peace Corps.  Long hours 5 days a week.  Only Thai was spoken.  It was taught using the "Silent Way".  Teacher would say a word only a couple times, then you had to pronounce it correctly.  Then the teacher would try to show the meaning using pantomime or pointing at objects.  Little colored wooden blocks were used to good effect. 

 

It was difficult but if you got it, you got it.  We learned words like wood, glass, all the colors.  Then counting.  We'd learn to think in Thai - no translation.  Then putting words into phrases and sentences became easier.  I never learned to read and write very well, but some.  Then I got dumped in Isaan and worked with farmers.  ????  But I got by and people back then (1977) appreciated it.

 

There are things I hear and sometimes say that I don't fully understand or can't translate, but they work in everyday conversation.  And I do try to speak melodiously. 

 

 

On 1/9/2022 at 9:25 AM, Grecian said:

In short is it worth the effort?

 

Yes & sorry I have not read all the answers but yes 101% GO LEARN

 

I learned to read & write while not perfect really helped learning to speak as you are not looking at transliterated from English pronunciations

 

Also do not get so hung up on tones in the beginning

Do you know Thai children are never taught anything about tones?

 

They learn the word & repeat it...They learn the alphabet & vowels & repeat it same as any language

 

DO THAT!

 

Get a simple free program & start with the consonants

Then the vowels

 

Then learn basic words & on you go!

 

Many Falangs make it too difficult & use tones as an excuse as not to learn

 

Learn as Thai's learn...Learn a word LISTEN to it & copy it

 

 

17 hours ago, Lacessit said:

European languages are vastly different to Thai and other tonal Asian languages. Thai has complex vowels, and the subtlety of tone is incredible. The Thai word "tong" can mean stomach, gold or a flag. The only way to really tell the difference is seeing the Thai script.

OTOH, Thais do struggle with the complex consonants common in English. Ask a Thai to pronounce words such as paint or refrigerator.

My GF and I trade words almost daily, it's one way for us both to improve.

 

I can get by in Thai,but as stated is complex, I will not be learning more due to complexity of it,plus   how long an individual wants to hang his hat here in Thailand?  worth the effort?   Only time I consider the language essential would be lost in a jungle middle of the night,and never likely to happen

  More important to get nearest and dearest even more fluent in English,so they can fly the nest for better opportunities eventually

On 1/12/2022 at 8:53 AM, kwilco said:

I'm oretty sure the woman had something to do with work.

I was in Thailand talking to a Thai person in Thai

I'm 'oretty' thinking you should just stick to Thai and avoid English altogether.????

2 hours ago, ColeBOzbourne said:

I'm 'oretty' thinking you should just stick to Thai and avoid English altogether.????

Context..... you dhould be able to work it out if you're any good at languages.

17 hours ago, kwilco said:

Context..... you dhould be able to work it out if you're any good at languages.

I 'oretty' worked it out right off the bat. You 'dhould' have known that.

On 1/12/2022 at 4:37 PM, ozimoron said:

Thais can easily pick it if you learned from a bar girl. Most of them are Isaan and speak a Thai dialect of Lao.

LOL. Have you only lived in Pattaya? Bkk bargirls definitely are not mainly from Issan, unless that has changed since my happy days.

On 1/13/2022 at 2:09 PM, meechai said:

Yes & sorry I have not read all the answers but yes 101% GO LEARN

Why then was I quite happy not having conversational Thai?

Of course a minimum is necessary to get by.

 

On 1/13/2022 at 2:09 PM, meechai said:

Many Falangs make it too difficult & use tones as an excuse as not to learn

Dunno about that. I just wasn't prepared to spend the time necessary when I could be doing other things in preference. If I were stuck in a Thai jail for a year with nothing else to do, I'm pretty sure I could have picked it up.

IMO just not enough benefit to bother.

1 minute ago, thaibeachlovers said:

LOL. Have you only lived in Pattaya? Bkk bargirls definitely are not mainly from Issan, unless that has changed since my happy days.

I actually originally learned much of my Thai in Petchabun. I met a bar girl in soi cowboy and stayed with her family there in 1982. I then brought her to Australia for 6 months on a free visa which was issued on the spot and took 15 minutes to get. Soon after she went back to Thailand she met a Swedish guy who married her and took her to Stockholm where she got a job managing a used car dealership. I ran into her by chance a year later on Sukhumvit. To answer your question, there are still many Isaan girls in BKK bars though not as many as Pattaya for sure.