Policy change to Non Imm O-A (Long stay) ‘retirement visa’ allows foreigners to self insure

[TropicalGuy]

With the new nine month tourist visa or agent use, why bother ?…….the old six month tourist visa was my goto…

[NeoDinosaw]

18 hours ago, apetryxx said:

As usual, this is just another poorly conceived plan that is not well thought out. Another case of opening your mouth before engaging your brain. I can walk into Bangkok Hospital, plop down my Amex gold card that has no limit and get all the care I need. Period.

Not everybody has an Amex Gold card to plop down.  Will 'plop' suffice instead ?

[Lee4Life]

On 2/1/2022 at 7:41 AM, Yellowtail said:

Where does it say it has to be blocked? 

 

At the Thai consulate in Los Angeles, to satisfy the financial requirement  ($15,000?) you only had to show a print out of your bank statement. 

I checked the Royal Thai Consulate in Los Angeles just now and it shows the one year retirement (O/A) visa as requiring 1,200,000 baht. (36,300$ at today's exchange rate)

[Yellowtail]

20 hours ago, Jack Hammer said:

All would be ok if foreigners were charged the same rate as Thai nationals for hospitalisation 

Do Thai nationals get this treatment in your home country? 

 

I pay the same rates as my wife and kid at the hospitals we use. 

 

Where were you hospitalized? How much were you charged? What was the rate for Thai people? 

[Yellowtail]

19 hours ago, flexomike said:

Great idea as only retires get sick

Well when old people get sick it often costs more than when young people get sick, yes? 

 

 

[Yellowtail]

19 hours ago, WingFat said:

When I lived and worked in Thailand for 6 years (with a bonafide Thai Limited Co and work permit), I had several million in THB in a Thai bank with the main reason that if I needed extensive medical care for whatever reason, I had the juice to pay for it. I also had a substantial amount in overseas bank accounts if the THB funds ran dry. If one desires to live overseas, I believe one must be set up to weather the storms life tends to throw at us and not become a financial burden to someone else or another country.

If you worked for a legitimate company did you not have Thai social medical?

 

And if you worked six years and retired, you could still have Thai social medicine if you wanted, yes? 

[Yellowtail]

17 hours ago, Terry2905 said:

I fail to comprehend this?

 

Non o-a visa holders now need to show either health insurance cover for a minimum of 3,000,000 baht, or proof of assets of a minimum 3,000,000 baht. Yes?

 

Non o visa holders only need to show 800,000 baht in a Thai bank.

 

I fear that this is only a pre cursor, and that all retirement visas will soon need the 3,000,000 baht, either health insurance, or assets?

 

With the cheapest 3,000,000 baht health insurance that I have been quoted being 120,000 baht per year, that is beyond a lot of people's budget!

 

Time to jump ship before my next non o extension, because I am convinced that we are next!

 

One only has to read the banter, that Thailand only want rich foreigners, to realise that those of us who have been unlucky in life, and not have 3,000,000 baht lying around, are not welcome here!

 

The Philippines here I come! Only need to deposit 300,000 baht in the Philippines government bank account (with pension income), or 600,000 baht with no pension income! And no stupid 90 day reporting!

Good luck, we're going to miss you!

[Yellowtail]

14 hours ago, Flink said:

It still makes me chuckle that, with or without the need for health insurance, they demand that you have 800,000 baht in a Thai bank every time you renew. There are countries out there (mainly in S. America) where proof of a lifetime pension of over $900 a month is all that is required to get a 2 year retirement visa with:

        no 90 day reporting

        the ability to get permanent residency after your 2nd renewal

        the ability to  own land and property

Can't see, particularly as things stand at the moment, what makes Thailand feel it is worth so much more than those places.

Why not move to South America and find out? 

[Bogbrush]

9 hours ago, NeoDinosaw said:

Not everybody has an Amex Gold card to plop down.  Will 'plop' suffice instead ?

Gold? If you haven’t got the black one,  mate, you don’t even exist…????

[sandyf]

On 2/1/2022 at 6:38 AM, apetryxx said:

As usual, this is just another poorly conceived plan that is not well thought out. Another case of opening your mouth before engaging your brain. I can walk into Bangkok Hospital, plop down my Amex gold card that has no limit and get all the care I need. Period.

As usual another selfish derogatory comment.

It is anything but "another poorly conceived plan", unless of course the word "evolution" is missing from  your vocabulary. No journey can ever be concluded without making a start.

The fact that they are starting to talk about self insurance has to be welcome news for aging expats in Thailand, the possibility of compulsory insurance is hanging there like a dark cloud.

[sirineou]

17 hours ago, robblok said:

Right but what is fair, i mean if your an older foreigner you are probably going to cost the Thai taxpayer a lot of money. So what is a fair buyin ? 100k 200k 500k ? 

 

Just remember in your most productive years with least disease you did not pay a thing, and now when your old when your going to need it you buy in. So the buy in might be a lot higher then you think. 

 

But i understand the idea and would not be opposed to it. But like i said what is a fair buyin. 

. Private insurance companies can provide insurance and make a profit,  I am sure the Thai goverment  can come up with a fair and quittable formula to provide the same but without the profit overhead cover pre=existing conditions under certain provisions, so that people would not just come here for the free medical after they get sick. In the 14 years I have been coming here 12 of each married to a lovely Thai lady, with my wife owning two homes , one of each I have recently build, and in that time having purchased two new cars , I think I have contributed considerably more to the Thai economy than many Thais that qualify for the Thai goverment  health care system. 

21 hours ago, khunPer said:

Nothing has changed with the normal non-immigrant type-O visa and the annual extensions based on retirement.

 

The O-A type visa are for the those that apply for a one year stay from abroad, and keep their savings abroad instead of in a Thai bank deposit or showing month income transferred into Thailand. The self-insurance is just a wished for extra benefit for those that have difficulties in obtaining a heath insurance for various reasons.

It seems to me that every time I turn around there is a new proposal and we all have to try and figure out what it means for us.

I am retired here making extensions based on marriage, now if I leave the country, I got to get insurance to come back,

I am almost 65 now, if that policy continues I can for see a time in the next 10 years that I would not be able to purchase insurance in the private market. What then? 

The way I understand it , the A-O has to be obtained from the country of residence. 

What If I visit a country other than my country of residence and stay there a few months? Do I need to go back to the US to come back to Thailand?  Can I get am A-O visa from the US while in Europe?  This whole Thai immigration system gives me a headache . 

In April we are going to Greece and we will look into making that our retirement base, without all these immigration nonsense. 

[robblok]

4 minutes ago, sirineou said:

. Private insurance companies can provide insurance and make a profit,  I am sure the Thai goverment  can come up with a fair and quittable formula to provide the same but without the profit overhead cover pre=existing conditions under certain provisions, so that people would not just come here for the free medical after they get sick. In the 14 years I have been coming here 12 of each married to a lovely Thai lady, with my wife owning two homes , one of each I have recently build, and in that time having purchased two new cars , I think I have contributed considerably more to the Thai economy than many Thais that qualify for the Thai goverment  health care system. 

It seems to me that every time I turn around there is a new proposal and we all have to try and figure out what it means for us.

I am retired here making extensions based on marriage, now if I leave the country, I got to get insurance to come back,

I am almost 65 now, if that policy continues I can for see a time in the next 10 years that I would not be able to purchase insurance in the private market. What then? 

The way I understand it , the A-O has to be obtained from the country of residence. 

What If I visit a country other than my country of residence and stay there a few months? Do I need to go back to the US to come back to Thailand?  Can I get am A-O visa from the US while in Europe?  This whole Thai immigration system gives me a headache . 

In April we are going to Greece and we will look into making that our retirement base, without all these immigration nonsense. 

So basically you don't want to say what is a normal buyin. I think it would be no less then 100k probably more. What do YOU think that was the question what do YOU think is fair. Did not ask what the Thai government would do I asked what you consider fair ?

 

I think a lot of you guys have no clue about the costs involved of a buy in. If it was 100k it would super cheap. Hell id pay 100k to buy in and im probably a lot younger then you. 

[Yellowtail]

56 minutes ago, robblok said:

So basically you don't want to say what is a normal buyin. I think it would be no less then 100k probably more. What do YOU think that was the question what do YOU think is fair. Did not ask what the Thai government would do I asked what you consider fair ?

 

I think a lot of you guys have no clue about the costs involved of a buy in. If it was 100k it would super cheap. Hell id pay 100k to buy in and im probably a lot younger then you. 

The issue is that most people want it for little or nothing, AND they don't really want Thai social medicine. What they want it to be able to go to Bumrungrad when they have a heart attack and only pay thirty Baht. 

 

C

[OJAS]

21 hours ago, Chiang Mai Will said:

I gave up on the bold-italic-underlined bit:

 

3) In the case of risk groups who are totally or partially denied insurance purchase by the company, they shall have additional documents as follows: (1) the letter of denial [(1.1) if the denial is issued in Thailand, follow the criteria, but (2) if it is done in foreign countries, coordinate with the Ministry of Foreign Affairs of the applicant’s country to sign the notary by the authorised person] (2) documents demonstrating properties, bank deposit, health insurance or others whose coverage shall not less than 3 million THB in total in accordance with the criteria prescribed by the Immigration Bureau.

 

The UK Ministry of Foreign Affairs is the Foreign, Commonwealth & Development Office. As the majority of civil servants in the UK don't want to go back to the office and want to keep working at home I wonder what the chances are of raising one to "coordinate with to sign the notary by the authorised person" -- whatever that means?

It strikes me as highly unlikely that the need to consult foreign ministries collectively on this particular "brilliant idea" has actually crossed the minds of the MOPH "geniuses" who were responsible for dreaming it up. Were they to do so, then I think that, in the UK's case, we can confidently predict that they will be informed (in diplomatic terms, of course) by the FCDO up which bodily orifice they can then stick their "brilliant idea" - in precisely the same way as their Immigration Bureau colleagues were a few years ago in connection with another equally "brilliant idea" to force detailed income verification requirements on the Embassy here, which subsequently led to the discontinuation of their income confirmation service for annual extensions of stay.

 

Edited February 2, 2022 by OJAS

[sirineou]

2 hours ago, robblok said:

So basically you don't want to say what is a normal buyin. I think it would be no less then 100k probably more. What do YOU think that was the question what do YOU think is fair. Did not ask what the Thai government would do I asked what you consider fair ?

 

I think a lot of you guys have no clue about the costs involved of a buy in. If it was 100k it would super cheap. Hell id pay 100k to buy in and im probably a lot younger then you. 

!I would have no problem paying 100k a year that would translate to about $250 a month, It would IMO be a win/win for both me and the Thai goverment. It would be a revenue stream for the Thai health system that they otherwise don't get, and most people would not use it very much, anyway,  because as I said for major issues I would go back to the US where my Medicare would be, and for doctor visits private doctors are inexpensive enough and I don't have to wait at the gov. hospital. 

I think the same is true for many other expats. 

To be honest with you, I don't trust these private insurers to pay for anything expensive. I think if something bad happened while I am fighting for my life, I would have to be also fighting with the insurance company  to pay. 

[khunPer]

2 hours ago, sirineou said:

. Private insurance companies can provide insurance and make a profit,  I am sure the Thai goverment  can come up with a fair and quittable formula to provide the same but without the profit overhead cover pre=existing conditions under certain provisions, so that people would not just come here for the free medical after they get sick. In the 14 years I have been coming here 12 of each married to a lovely Thai lady, with my wife owning two homes , one of each I have recently build, and in that time having purchased two new cars , I think I have contributed considerably more to the Thai economy than many Thais that qualify for the Thai goverment  health care system. 

It seems to me that every time I turn around there is a new proposal and we all have to try and figure out what it means for us.

I am retired here making extensions based on marriage, now if I leave the country, I got to get insurance to come back,

I am almost 65 now, if that policy continues I can for see a time in the next 10 years that I would not be able to purchase insurance in the private market. What then? 

The way I understand it , the A-O has to be obtained from the country of residence. 

What If I visit a country other than my country of residence and stay there a few months? Do I need to go back to the US to come back to Thailand?  Can I get am A-O visa from the US while in Europe?  This whole Thai immigration system gives me a headache . 

In April we are going to Greece and we will look into making that our retirement base, without all these immigration nonsense. 

You can have a re-entry permit when you stay in the kingdom on extended stay based on something like marriage or retirement. Nothing has really changed here, apart from during the Covid-pandemic everybody need to obtain an insurance covering Covid when entering the kingdom.

An O-A visa is really only of interest for those that wish to keep their money abroad and don't plan to stay in Thailand for ever, or at least long time, a perfect solution for many an elder snowbird...????

[malibukid]

On 2/1/2022 at 6:55 AM, sirineou said:

What these people don't seem to understand is that those making rational decisions on where and how to retire cant do that on constantly changing requirements. People coming in on one set of rules need to . at the very least. have these rules grandfathered in. 

I don't understand why they can not device a fair system where long term residence can buy into the Thai national health care system, as many countries do, then if said expat desires additional insurance he/she can purchase supplemental insurance in the private sector .

A win win situation for both the Thai system that has another stream of income, and the expat that has a minimal health care safety net. 

better yet, honor Medicare

[WingFat]

6 hours ago, Yellowtail said:

If you worked for a legitimate company did you not have Thai social medical?

 

And if you worked six years and retired, you could still have Thai social medicine if you wanted, yes? 

I don't know if I had Thai social medical; I and the Thai Co paid the required payroll taxes while I was employed. When I needed medical care, I generally used private int'l hospitals/clinics and paid out of my own pocket. On a few occasions when I needed a simple medical exam for my Non-Imm B visa renewal, I did use local public hospitals and paid 100THB for the exams. So perhaps I did have Thai social medical and wasn't aware of it. When I went to these public hospitals, they did ask to see my work permit as well as my passport/visa.

 

 

[Bogbrush]

3 hours ago, khunPer said:

An O-A visa is really only of interest for those that wish to keep their money abroad and don't plan to stay in Thailand for ever, or at least long time, a perfect solution for many an elder snowbird...????

Apologies, but I don’t understand;  surely an OA is for people who plan to stay in Thailand for a long time..? They also have to keep 800 000 baht here..

[ubonjoe]

29 minutes ago, Bogbrush said:

Apologies, but I don’t understand;  surely an OA is for people who plan to stay in Thailand for a long time..? They also have to keep 800 000 baht here..

The Non-OA long stay visa is only issued by a embassy or official consulate in your home country or one that you have legal residence in.

When applying for it you can show financial proof in a bank where they apply or 65k confirmed by the source of it there.

The OA visas is valid for one year from the date it is issued and allows unlimited 1 year stays in the country up to the day it expires. By doing a entry shortly before the visa expires it is possible to get a total stay of about one year from the visa. After the visa expired they could get a re-entry permit to keep the 2nd year valid.

Prior to covid 19 many people were using them to enter the country and traveled during that time home or on holidays.

Then before the visa expired the returned home and applied for new visa.

The 800k baht in a Thai bank only has to be used to extend the permit to stay from the OA visa after it has expired.

[skatewash]

28 minutes ago, Bogbrush said:

Apologies, but I don’t understand;  surely an OA is for people who plan to stay in Thailand for a long time..? They also have to keep 800 000 baht here..

A person with a Non-OA does not have to keep 800,000 baht in Thailand unless and until they go for their first extension of stay.  Up to that time, which can easily be nearly two years, they do not have to keep any money in Thailand at all.

[Yellowtail]

59 minutes ago, WingFat said:

I don't know if I had Thai social medical; I and the Thai Co paid the required payroll taxes while I was employed. When I needed medical care, I generally used private int'l hospitals/clinics and paid out of my own pocket. On a few occasions when I needed a simple medical exam for my Non-Imm B visa renewal, I did use local public hospitals and paid 100THB for the exams. So perhaps I did have Thai social medical and wasn't aware of it. When I went to these public hospitals, they did ask to see my work permit as well as my passport/visa.

 

 

You would have had a card and been registered at a local government hospital. You would also have been untitled toa refund of the ss payments when you retired. 

[khunPer]

39 minutes ago, Bogbrush said:

Apologies, but I don’t understand;  surely an OA is for people who plan to stay in Thailand for a long time..? They also have to keep 800 000 baht here..

No, the benefit of O-A visa is, that you can keep money in your home country, but still get 12 month validity for trips in and out of Thailand, and one year permitted stay on each entry.

 

Only if you wish to further extend your permission to stay based on retirement, you'll need to follow the normal rules - i.e. money deposit in a Thai bank or proof of income transferred into Thailand - and furthermore, when having entered on an O-A visa, you also have need to continue a mandatory O-A-health insurance.

 

I know elder snowbirds that so far applies for a new O-A visa every year...????

[Bogbrush]

9 minutes ago, skatewash said:

A person with a Non-OA does not have to keep 800,000 baht in Thailand unless and until they go for their first extension of stay.  Up to that time, which can easily be nearly two years, they do not have to keep any money in Thailand at all.

Yes, I know and understand all that, but it is still disingenuous to say it is for people who do not want to spend a long time in the kingdom. Of course it is designed for long-term usage, hence the term ‘retirement visa’. I am sure some people use it as you describe, but I would imagine the vast majority use it and the extensions for residing here permanently .

[skatewash]

16 minutes ago, Bogbrush said:

Yes, I know and understand all that, but it is still disingenuous to say it is for people who do not want to spend a long time in the kingdom. Of course it is designed for long-term usage, hence the term ‘retirement visa’. I am sure some people use it as you describe, but I would imagine the vast majority use it and the extensions for residing here permanently .

Yes, of course it's for long stays.  In fact at some embassies and consulates it is called the "Long Stay" visa.  It's for people who don't want to be obligated to bring in money to Thailand but don't mind having to purchase mandatory medical insurance for their time in Thailand.

[flexomike]

12 hours ago, skatewash said:

Yes, of course it's for long stays.  In fact at some embassies and consulates it is called the "Long Stay" visa.  It's for people who don't want to be obligated to bring in money to Thailand but don't mind having to purchase mandatory medical insurance for their time in Thailand.

That wasn't my intention when  I retired here six years ago on an OA visa, wasn't a requirement back then

t

[skatewash]

12 minutes ago, flexomike said:

That wasn't my intention when  I retired here six years ago on an OA visa, wasn't a requirement back then

t

Yes, changing insurance requirements and covid affecting the ease of travel have dramatically  reduced the desirability of the Non-OA.  Neither of which could have been reasonably anticipated.

[JimGant]

On 2/2/2022 at 6:00 PM, skatewash said:

Yes, of course it's for long stays.  In fact at some embassies and consulates it is called the "Long Stay" visa.  It's [ALSO] for people who don't want to be obligated to bring in money to Thailand

Ok, if you get an O-A but never put 800k in a Thai bank and never apply for an extension, then you're an O-A tourist -- having some perks you wouldn't have on an ordinary tourist visa. But, if you apply for a one year extension off of your O-A visa, either using 'marriage' or 'retirement' as your reason -- and whether or not you use the 800k in bank method, or monthly income method, of income letter from your embassy -- you're an O-A 'long stay' person. Please re-read the title of this thread....

[oldcpu]

On 2/1/2022 at 10:40 AM, Road Warrior said:

do i understand correctly !! if one has 3million bht in thai bank NO ISURANCE IS NOW REQUIRED /??

Not exactly. per many posts in this thread, you have to produce a letter from an Insurance company stating they denied you Health Insurance.  I'm 68, on a Type-OA, and I would happy go for 3-million THB in the bank, but the insurance companies on the limited Thai immigration approved health insurance companies list won't give me such a letter, but rather want to insure me.  They figure I am healthy enough still to have me buy their insurance.

 

But in my case it would require me to buy double health insurance, as I already have health insurance (covering both myself and my Thai wife) superior to the 3-million Thai immigration required Health Insurance for foreigners (on Type-OA visas) where mine is heavily subsidized for payments as it is part of my pension.  I do NOT want to give up my superior current Health Insurance to purchase Health Insurance from the Thai approved list, which is not as good.

 

Hence to stay on a retirement extension of my permission to stay (on a Type-OA visa)  I was looking at buying expensive double health insurance. 

 

I had planned to leave Thailand (invalidating my Type-OA)  and returning Visa Exempt, followed by applying for a Type-O visa, ...  but given the COVID situation I decided not to do that (cancelling all travel plans). 

 

Instead I have applied for an extension on my permission to stay (on a Type-OA) based on "marriage" extension, instead of my previous "retirement" extension.

 

 

Edited February 7, 2022 by oldcpu

[Bogbrush]

37 minutes ago, oldcpu said:

Not exactly. per many posts in this thread, you have to produce a letter from an Insurance company stating they denied you Health Insurance.  I'm 68, on a Type-OA, and I would happy go for 3-million THB in the bank, but the insurance companies on the limited Thai immigration approved health insurance companies list won't give me such a letter, but rather want to insure me.  They figure I am healthy enough still to have me buy their insurance.

 

But in my case it would require me to buy double health insurance, as I already have health insurance (covering both myself and my Thai wife) superior to the 3-million Thai immigration required Health Insurance for foreigners (on Type-OA visas) where mine is heavily subsidized for payments as it is part of my pension.  I do NOT want to give up my superior current Health Insurance to purchase Health Insurance from the Thai approved list, which is not as good.

 

Hence to stay on a retirement extension of my permission to stay (on a Type-OA visa)  I was looking at buying expensive double health insurance. 

 

I had planned to leave Thailand (invalidating my Type-OA)  and returning Visa Exempt, followed by applying for a Type-O visa, ...  but given the COVID situation I decided not to do that (cancelling all travel plans). 

 

Instead I have applied for an extension on my permission to stay (on a Type-OA) based on "marriage" extension, instead of my previous "retirement" extension.

 

 

The change to the government rules raising the requirement to 3,000,000 Baht also allows for overseas insurance to be utilised, thereby amending the previous requirement that only Thai based companies could be used.