Thousands of refugees cross back into Myanmar, as conditions on Thai side prove unbearable

[webfact]

 

By Caleb Quinley

 

Thousands of Myanmar refugees have gradually crossed back into Myanmar over the last few weeks. Living conditions on the Thai side were too difficult and their settlements were reportedly dismantled by the Thai military, according to local sources.

Many of the refugees are from Lay Kay Kaw, a town near the Thai border in Karen state.  But when their city was invaded by the Myanmar military, known as the Tatmadaw, in December, they fled to Thailand’s border to escape the violence.

Some of the refugees are also from Kayah state, an area that has been targeted with airstrikes over the last two months. The escalation of violence since December has pushed thousands of people to flee for their lives.

 

Full story: https://www.thaienquirer.com/37213/thousands-of-refugees-cross-back-into-myanmar-as-conditions-on-thai-side-prove-unbearable/

 

-- © Copyright Thai Enquirer 2022-02-04

 

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[herfiehandbag]

Meanwhile, in other news, we are told that one of the aims of next month's "Exercise Cobra Gold" is to practice the Thai military in humanitarian operations!

[cliveshep]

If they feel safer in the loving arms of the Tatmadaw and under aerial bombardment by their air force then the Thai Army must have been treating them brutally and hardly in accordance with any humanitarian consideration. So what is going on out from under the watchful eyes of various NGOs? Now we know WHY the Thai government wants to ban the NGO in recent news!

[Enzian]

A sad and almost impossible situation. 

No one in the world likes what has been going on in Burma for a year, but the concept of national sovereignty, along with most nations wish to avoid being accused of empire building, means that no one will just go in and overturn the junta. And the UN would probably be risking its entire existence if it tried.

I would like to read more about Thailand's response.

[Mr Derek]

Thailand seems to have been quite patient with the constant ebb and flow of Karen refugees for a long while but I imagine it wants to prevent the Karen getting too comfortable here and settling in perpetuity.

 

Really, the Karen have only themselves to blame for locking themselves into this constant futile struggle. They need to give up their demands for independence, at least for the present. I know they are locked in by pride and won't allow themselves to give up, but, realistically, independence is just not going to happen - at least until there is a radical change in the concept of the nation state across the world.

 

I know the Karen and Burmese historically hate each other and I know Myanmar is an artificial country cobbled together during the colonial era out of various states, but for now... pragmatism. The Burmese are the stronger party and the country is in the grip of a military dictatorship so the Karen should just sit quiet and wait for a better government with whom to negotiate. Fighting it out forever is stupid.  

[Enoon]

1 hour ago, Mr Derek said:

Thailand seems to have been quite patient with the constant ebb and flow of Karen refugees for a long while but I imagine it wants to prevent the Karen getting too comfortable here and settling in perpetuity.

 

Really, the Karen have only themselves to blame for locking themselves into this constant futile struggle. They need to give up their demands for independence, at least for the present. I know they are locked in by pride and won't allow themselves to give up, but, realistically, independence is just not going to happen - at least until there is a radical change in the concept of the nation state across the world.

 

I know the Karen and Burmese historically hate each other and I know Myanmar is an artificial country cobbled together during the colonial era out of various states, but for now... pragmatism. The Burmese are the stronger party and the country is in the grip of a military dictatorship so the Karen should just sit quiet and wait for a better government with whom to negotiate. Fighting it out forever is stupid.  

Bamars are now fighting against the Tatmadaw..

 

The Bamar are the largest, dominant, ethnic group......that you describe as "The Burmese".

 

They make up the bulk of:

People's Defence Force (Myanmar) - Wikipedia

 

It is the military component of the legitimate government.

 

It is actively co-operating with the ethnic minority resistance:

 

"the Kachin Independence Army (KIA) in the north, the Karen National Liberation Army (KNLA) and the Karenni Nationalities Defence Force (KNDF) along the Thai border, have offered sanctuary and training"

Why once peaceful protesters are now choosing violence -

 

"The PDF has now publicly apologised to ethnic militias for previously believing military propaganda that the groups had wanted to dismantle the country. The PDF is now unanimously calling for a future federal state in which everyone will have equal rights."

The deadly battles that tipped Myanmar into civil war - BBC

 

 

 

 

 

Edited February 4, 2022 by Enoon

[Bluespunk]

4 hours ago, webfact said:

Living conditions on the Thai side were too difficult

because 

 

4 hours ago, webfact said:

their settlements were reportedly dismantled by the Thai military, according to local sources.

 

[Card]

1 hour ago, Mr Derek said:

Thailand seems to have been quite patient with the constant ebb and flow of Karen refugees for a long while but I imagine it wants to prevent the Karen getting too comfortable here and settling in perpetuity.

 

Really, the Karen have only themselves to blame for locking themselves into this constant futile struggle. They need to give up their demands for independence, at least for the present. I know they are locked in by pride and won't allow themselves to give up, but, realistically, independence is just not going to happen - at least until there is a radical change in the concept of the nation state across the world.

 

I know the Karen and Burmese historically hate each other and I know Myanmar is an artificial country cobbled together during the colonial era out of various states, but for now... pragmatism. The Burmese are the stronger party and the country is in the grip of a military dictatorship so the Karen should just sit quiet and wait for a better government with whom to negotiate. Fighting it out forever is stupid.  

Wrong and stupid response. Most of the ethnic minorities are with the majority Burman NUG in fighting the atrocious tatmadaw. At last there is a coalition of most ethnicities in Myanmar against atrocities, rather than just a fight for independence. You are behind the times 

Edited February 4, 2022 by Card

[Mr Derek]

49 minutes ago, Enoon said:

Bamars are now fighting against the Tatmadaw..

 

The Bamar are the largest, dominant, ethnic group......that you describe as "The Burmese".

 

They make up the bulk of:

People's Defence Force (Myanmar) - Wikipedia

 

It is the military component of the legitimate government.

 

It is actively co-operating with the ethnic minority resistance:

 

"the Kachin Independence Army (KIA) in the north, the Karen National Liberation Army (KNLA) and the Karenni Nationalities Defence Force (KNDF) along the Thai border, have offered sanctuary and training"

Why once peaceful protesters are now choosing violence -

 

"The PDF has now publicly apologised to ethnic militias for previously believing military propaganda that the groups had wanted to dismantle the country. The PDF is now unanimously calling for a future federal state in which everyone will have equal rights."

The deadly battles that tipped Myanmar into civil war - BBC

 

No surprise as they all have a common temporary interest in getting rid of the junta... but thereafter...? Good luck with "a future federal state in which everyone will have equal rights" - that's just to boost morale during the civil war. Nor do I think it was 'military propaganda' that the Karens wanted independence (the BBC as usual wants to put a heroic leftist spin on things) - I doubt the Karen will ever compromise on that demand.

 

Well, the refugees will no doubt continue to flow for years. Thailand's 'let them in but occasionally push them back' policy is probably realistic to prevent a catastrophic influx.

[thaitom]

Goodbye !  now to flush them out of the villages, namely mine !  KM.48

[Mr Derek]

8 minutes ago, Card said:

Wrong and stupid response. Most of the ethnic minorities are with the majority Burman NUG in fighting the atrocious tatmadaw. At last there is a coalition of most ethnicities in Myanmar against atrocities, rather than just a fight for independence. You are behind the times 

I'm taking a bigger and more pragmatic perspective. The Karen's struggle for independence (and consequent flow of refugees) has been going on for decades and is not the result of the current civil war and will not end with it.

[TropicalGuy]

4 hours ago, Enzian said:

A sad and almost impossible situation. 

No one in the world likes what has been going on in Burma for a year, but the concept of national sovereignty, along with most nations wish to avoid being accused of empire building, means that no one will just go in and overturn the junta. And the UN would probably be risking its entire existence if it tried.

I would like to read more about Thailand's response.

Widespread Civil War ( Civilian Resistance) there will overthrow the illegal military regime or reduce it to small city enclaves like Syria. BBC News Online Article yesterday citing reputable institute study on this was excellent.Resistance is everywhere across all demographics and is now seems unstoppable. needs heavy weapons & training though. UK should provide as former colonial occupier there just as France does in West Africa.

[herfiehandbag]

3 hours ago, Mr Derek said:

Thailand seems to have been quite patient with the constant ebb and flow of Karen refugees for a long while but I imagine it wants to prevent the Karen getting too comfortable here and settling in perpetuity.

 

Really, the Karen have only themselves to blame for locking themselves into this constant futile struggle. They need to give up their demands for independence, at least for the present. I know they are locked in by pride and won't allow themselves to give up, but, realistically, independence is just not going to happen - at least until there is a radical change in the concept of the nation state across the world.

 

I know the Karen and Burmese historically hate each other and I know Myanmar is an artificial country cobbled together during the colonial era out of various states, but for now... pragmatism. The Burmese are the stronger party and the country is in the grip of a military dictatorship so the Karen should just sit quiet and wait for a better government with whom to negotiate. Fighting it out forever is stupid.  

The Karens have been campaigning for independence, then autonomy since before colonial rule ended 1947).

 

The Burmese military have been effectively in power now for 60 years. Genocidal practices are a constant factor in the way they operate against any ethnic group other than their own (Baman).

 

Sitting back and hoping for better times simply will not work.

 

They remained loyal to the British during the Burma Campaign in World War 2, and suffered badly from the Japanese and their Burmese militias as a result - so whilst I do not advocate military intervention I would like to see the UK support their cause - it is not as if the Burmese regime has any political legitimacy! They have, since 1976 been asking for a Karen State within a Burmese Federation. Such federations are complex, but certainly preferable to total ruthless dominance by one ethic group, particularly in countries as ethically mixed as Burma.

Edited February 4, 2022 by herfiehandbag

[hotchilli]

6 hours ago, webfact said:

Thousands of Myanmar refugees have gradually crossed back into Myanmar over the last few weeks. Living conditions on the Thai side were too difficult and their settlements were reportedly dismantled by the Thai military, according to local sources.

Thai compassion...

 

[herfiehandbag]

1 hour ago, thaitom said:

Goodbye !  now to flush them out of the villages, namely mine !  KM.48

Up for a bit of ethnic cleansing are you?

 

Do you keep a brown shirt and a pair of jackboots at the back of your wardrobe?

Edited February 4, 2022 by herfiehandbag

[Cake Monster]

6 hours ago, Enzian said:

A sad and almost impossible situation. 

No one in the world likes what has been going on in Burma for a year, but the concept of national sovereignty, along with most nations wish to avoid being accused of empire building, means that no one will just go in and overturn the junta. And the UN would probably be risking its entire existence if it tried.

I would like to read more about Thailand's response.

You will not hear anything in the form of a response from Thailand

They are not known for their compassion

[thaitom]

28 minutes ago, Cake Monster said:

You will not hear anything in the form of a response from Thailand

They are not known for their compassion

What ! Thailand has been patient ! They have even allowed these so-called refugee camps to run for decades.  Thailand needs to shut them down permanently. Tell Myanmar to take control of its problems.  It's not a Thailand issue, and it never should've been.

[Tubulat]

1 hour ago, thaitom said:

What ! Thailand has been patient ! They have even allowed these so-called refugee camps to run for decades.  Thailand needs to shut them down permanently. Tell Myanmar to take control of its problems.  It's not a Thailand issue, and it never should've been.

Have you ever heard of Human Rights?

[xtrnuno41]

What is new? Thailand follows the rest of the world in behavior?!

In France , many Africans want to cross to UK. They are just waiting and built "shelters", which France is destroying every time.

Australia has people in detention centers, same as tennis player Djokovic. There are people over there already 9 years, cant do anything then to sit there and wait. They are somehow lucky, as there are people being dumped on an island, with nothing at all.

How about the USA? You dont hear anything anymore about the immense amount of people marching to USA.

Lots of Syrian people on a Greek island, going nowhere, but just sitting on that island.

China rounding up Eighurs for a brain wash in camps. 

Just some samples. There will be a lot more

And i think to myself, what a wonderfull world , o yeaaaaaaah.  

[Burma Bill]

8 hours ago, webfact said:

known as the Tatmadaw

Burma's terrorist organization led by a genocidal maniac!!!

[The Hammer2021]

A shameful stain on Thailand.

[Anant72]

5 hours ago, Mr Derek said:

Thailand seems to have been quite patient with the constant ebb and flow of Karen refugees for a long while but I imagine it wants to prevent the Karen getting too comfortable here and settling in perpetuity.

 

Really, the Karen have only themselves to blame for locking themselves into this constant futile struggle. They need to give up their demands for independence, at least for the present. I know they are locked in by pride and won't allow themselves to give up, but, realistically, independence is just not going to happen - at least until there is a radical change in the concept of the nation state across the world.

 

I know the Karen and Burmese historically hate each other and I know Myanmar is an artificial country cobbled together during the colonial era out of various states, but for now... pragmatism. The Burmese are the stronger party and the country is in the grip of a military dictatorship so the Karen should just sit quiet and wait for a better government with whom to negotiate. Fighting it out forever is stupid.  

Easy to say from a comfortable armchair.

[BangkokReady]

47 minutes ago, Tubulat said:

Have you ever heard of Human Rights?

Human rights don't really exist unless the state recognises and protects them.

[The Hammer2021]

16 minutes ago, Anant72 said:

Easy to say from a comfortable armchair.

And not true at all. A travesty of Burman propaganda.

[The Hammer2021]

1 minute ago, BangkokReady said:

Human rights don't really exist unless the state recognises and protects them.

They are never given. They always have to  be fought for

[Albert Zweistein]

2 hours ago, xtrnuno41 said:

What is new? Thailand follows the rest of the world in behavior?!

In France , many Africans want to cross to UK. They are just waiting and built "shelters", which France is destroying every time.

Australia has people in detention centers, same as tennis player Djokovic. There are people over there already 9 years, cant do anything then to sit there and wait. They are somehow lucky, as there are people being dumped on an island, with nothing at all.

How about the USA? You dont hear anything anymore about the immense amount of people marching to USA.

Lots of Syrian people on a Greek island, going nowhere, but just sitting on that island.

China rounding up Eighurs for a brain wash in camps. 

Just some samples. There will be a lot more

And i think to myself, what a wonderfull world , o yeaaaaaaah.  

And the solution is ?

[thaitom]

4 hours ago, Tubulat said:

Have you ever heard of Human Rights?

And again..... Why and what does it have to do with Thailand ? Why should Thailand have to do anything ? All in the name of human rights ? It's Myanmar's problem, not Thailand's.  Why does Thailand have to be involved forcefully ? Oh, that's right, human rights have no boundaries. So the next time I visit Immigration office I should claim human rights and tell them to back off and let me live where I want with no restrictions. 

[thaitom]

Just now, thaitom said:

And again..... Why and what does it have to do with Thailand ? Why should Thailand have to do anything ? All in the name of human rights ? It's Myanmar's problem, not Thailand's.  Why does Thailand have to be involved forcefully ? Oh, that's right, human rights have no boundaries. So the next time I visit Immigration office I should claim human rights and tell them to back off and let me live where I want with no restrictions. 

So sick of hearing from these self serving NGO's .  Yes, I am talking about you all in Maesot.     go ahead suspend me ADmin. 

[soalbundy]

4 hours ago, xtrnuno41 said:

What is new? Thailand follows the rest of the world in behavior?!

In France , many Africans want to cross to UK. They are just waiting and built "shelters", which France is destroying every time.

Australia has people in detention centers, same as tennis player Djokovic. There are people over there already 9 years, cant do anything then to sit there and wait. They are somehow lucky, as there are people being dumped on an island, with nothing at all.

How about the USA? You dont hear anything anymore about the immense amount of people marching to USA.

Lots of Syrian people on a Greek island, going nowhere, but just sitting on that island.

China rounding up Eighurs for a brain wash in camps. 

Just some samples. There will be a lot more

And i think to myself, what a wonderfull world , o yeaaaaaaah.  

We haven't seen anything yet, wait until global warming makes many countries intolerable to live in then the great trek to Northern Europe, America, Canada etc. will follow. I'm sure a contingency plan has been put in place and it will have nothing to do with shelters or camps.

[Kinnock]

12 hours ago, Enzian said:

A sad and almost impossible situation. 

No one in the world likes what has been going on in Burma for a year, but the concept of national sovereignty, along with most nations wish to avoid being accused of empire building, means that no one will just go in and overturn the junta. And the UN would probably be risking its entire existence if it tried.

I would like to read more about Thailand's response.

The UN is a totally useless organisation, paralysed by politics and riddled with corruption.  But the blue hats are nice.