Mild, asymptomatic COVID-19 cases not entitled to claim under new insurance rules

[FarmerJoe]

So does AXA still cover asymptomatic results?

 

[bbOh]

I haven't seen anything about stating asymptomatic in the policies but surely the 30 day no pay / which says it all.

I've been thinking about contacting the German embassy in BKK as the representative of me and my country. How can I be forced to sign up for a deal that leaves me uninsured...?

Yeah, maybe wishful thinking, However, I will let them know what I think about this and *just maybe* we all should do so. 

After all, what's the use of complaining here....and not speak up where it needs to be heard?

[new2here]

16 hours ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

This is an interesting development, because....

 

I've always been told by my insurance broker here in TH that any change an insurer might want to make in the terms of their coverage can only take effect at a person's next policy renewal -- not somewhere mid-term during a prior policy issued under different terms.

 

If that's true, how's that going to work in this instance?

 

Of course, this is TH, where the government and companies break or ignore rules all the time with impunity.

 

That’s what I was wondering as well.

 

My best guess - and it’s only a guess - is that any change in national law will effectively supersede any policy language which, on a past-change basis, now runs contrary to the newly set laws..

 

To me, it’s a bit like it was a while back when the rules governing how utilities like electricity and water where charged by selected rental entities (ie landlords)… people who may have had a current contract (lease rental) that stated it would be charged under the “old” formula, got changed mid-contract/lease, to be compliant with the newly enacted formula.  my gut is that it’s going to be like that as essentially national law will supersede any private contractual language.  

[zyphodb]

11 hours ago, daveAustin said:

If that is the case, then these Thai hospitals that obligatory take in covid positive people should NOT be treating asymptomatic cases or SHOULD make said treatment free, or Thai gov SHOULD pick up the bill. STOP behaving like a banana republic!!

Would you honestly expect them to behave like anything else, especially give the present government?

[Zack61]

15 hours ago, damascase said:

Health insurance would - and should - never cover medically absolutely unnecessary ‘treatment’. Your car insurer wouldn’t cover you if you don’t have any damage to your car, but still the body shop wants you to park the car at their premises for 10 days, at 10.000 baht a day……..

But it should cover if you are "required" or "forced" to quarantine at 10,000 baht a day. (As opposed to want)

[RocketDog]

17 hours ago, bobbin said:

A bone thrown to the struggling Thai Insurance companies?

 

If I'm in a hospital through no choice of my own, I expect the insurance I paid for to "cough" up the agreed compensation...

One of the hardest lessons I had to learn after moving to Thailand is to lower my expectations, about everything.

 

Maybe that's normal, even possibly wisdom, as I age but here it is particularly helpful in maintaining sanity and composure.

[Sydebolle]

Thailand’s Office of the Insurance Commission (OIC) issued rules limiting compensation claims by people infected with COVID-19. 

So, we're now at the "wannabe Covid" level; I assume that the same office then refunds the respective portion of the insurance premium. 

For how stupid does this government and its idiotic bureaucracy clowns take the taxpayer and voter? 

[cyril sneer]

Next month it will change to 'severe' cases not entitled

[Bigz]

Can anyone explain what is a 'found, paid,done' insurance? According to the article people with that kind of insurance covered as normal.

[mjakob007]

18 hours ago, webfact said:

Assistant OIC Secretary-General Apakorn Panlerd said that the new rule is in line with the Public Health Ministry’s guidelines for the care of people infected with COVID-19, as revised on January 4th, which has resulted in a change to the conditions covering claim

- Insurance companies will not cover cost of mild asymptomatic cases

- international travelers will be quarantined if tested positive (irrespective of mild or severe) on day 1 or day 5

- international travelers MUST buy insurance as a pre-condition to qualify entering TH.

 

Conclusion: Such insurance is just a TAX on Intl travelers

 

[Andycoops]

So now the big insurance white wash begins.

You can only have one type of covid, absolutely ridiculous.

[Canadian Snowbird]

Wow. This will really help to get the tourists back. Force you to get insurance, force you into quarantine in a hospitel if you test positive on arrival even with mild or no symptoms, then find out that the insurance won't cover you for the quarantine costs. Its looking more and more all the time that Thailand really doesn't want the tourists back. It seems every week I read something that gets decided that just puts up another deterrent. I'm really missing spending winters in Thailand and playing golf, but I can't see me ever coming back with the way they are handling things there. Do they ever think about the consequences of their decisions?

[Card]

17 hours ago, JonnyF said:

Good advice. 

 

The Thai company I insured with never sent my documents through and then went bust about 3 months after I took cover out with them. I won't mention the expat forum I found this insurance company on but it used to rhyme with Vie Teaser????. 

You mean Lie Geezer? I know that one.

[Etaoin Shrdlu]

53 minutes ago, Bigz said:

Can anyone explain what is a 'found, paid,done' insurance? According to the article people with that kind of insurance covered as normal.

These are the personal accident policies that paid a lump-sum cash benefit, usually 100,000 baht, upon testing positive for Covid-19. These policies are no longer being sold, but some of them will remain in force until expiry in the middle of this year. The OIC is not allowing insurers to cancel these policies mid-term and is requiring that all valid claims be honored. These are not medical insurance policies, although they may provide some limited medical expense benefits.

[Joules]

17 hours ago, JonnyF said:

Good advice. 

 

The Thai company I insured with never sent my documents through and then went bust about 3 months after I took cover out with them. I won't mention the expat forum I found this insurance company on but it used to rhyme with Vie Teaser????. 

Vie Teaser change its name.  Now it rhymes with Peon Bow.   

[Etaoin Shrdlu]

1 hour ago, Sydebolle said:

Thailand’s Office of the Insurance Commission (OIC) issued rules limiting compensation claims by people infected with COVID-19. 

So, we're now at the "wannabe Covid" level; I assume that the same office then refunds the respective portion of the insurance premium. 

For how stupid does this government and its idiotic bureaucracy clowns take the taxpayer and voter? 

Insurers were forced to cover expenses for medically-unnecessary expenses by the OIC in spite of the fact that their policies never included cover for these expenses.

 

The premiums collected for these policies were not formulated based upon the expectation that they would be forced to pay for these expenses, so insurers are not pocketing insurance premium for a risk that they are now not required to cover.

 

Those with symptomatic Covid-19 that actually requires medical treatment will continue to have their claims paid subject to their policies' terms and conditions.

[Joules]

I used Southeast Insurance Company to insure our two cars, paid in full.  Now I see they have filed for insolvency based on the covid claims they [didn't?] pay.  So I haven't had a claim denied by them, but am apparently out the thousands I paid in premium.  I wonder how much the tycoons that own the company got off with?  Why is it that I have the feeling that they are trying to get out with their pockets filled with cash without paying the claims they already owe?  Could it be because this is Thailand where the rich make a job of skinning the poor?

[Bigz]

11 minutes ago, Etaoin Shrdlu said:

These are the personal accident policies that paid a lump-sum cash benefit, usually 100,000 baht, upon testing positive for Covid-19. These policies are no longer being sold, but some of them will remain in force until expiry in the middle of this year. The OIC is not allowing insurers to cancel these policies mid-term and is requiring that all valid claims be honored. These are not medical insurance policies, although they may provide some limited medical expense benefits.

Thanks for the explanation

[Etaoin Shrdlu]

2 hours ago, new2here said:

That’s what I was wondering as well.

 

My best guess - and it’s only a guess - is that any change in national law will effectively supersede any policy language which, on a past-change basis, now runs contrary to the newly set laws..

 

To me, it’s a bit like it was a while back when the rules governing how utilities like electricity and water where charged by selected rental entities (ie landlords)… people who may have had a current contract (lease rental) that stated it would be charged under the “old” formula, got changed mid-contract/lease, to be compliant with the newly enacted formula.  my gut is that it’s going to be like that as essentially national law will supersede any private contractual language.  

The OIC has the authority to compel insurers to disregard exclusions in their policies. This is what happened in this instance. The OIC required insurers to pay claims for medically-unnecessary hospitalization even though the policies clearly did not cover these costs. The OIC is now simply reversing this edict and insurers are now able to exclude these expenses as was originally the case.

[foreverlomsak]

13 hours ago, daveAustin said:

If that is the case, then these Thai hospitals that obligatory take in covid positive people should NOT be treating asymptomatic cases or SHOULD make said treatment free, or Thai gov SHOULD pick up the bill. STOP behaving like a banana republic!!

With the list of "possible symptoms" appearing to grow nearly every day, I'm sure they can find one that will allow them to call you symptomatic, thereby lessening the chance of them not getting paid.

[mancub]

1 hour ago, RocketDog said:

One of the hardest lessons I had to learn after moving to Thailand is to lower my expectations, about everything.

Agreed. You effectively need to "dumb-down" to control levels of frustration !

[IamNoone88]

I never buy a Thai health insurance policy - only AETNA International. The insurance companies here are not as sophisticated or offer the same benefits as the more mature overseas service providers. In many cases amongst Thai friends I see claims not covered because of links to some old pre-existing condition - no defined period of a moratorium - just calls to renew the policy and pay the premium. Another contentious area is hospital fees charged if you have insurance vs not have. Cash payments seem to offer a discount vs an insured procedure. Bit of a vegetable market really.  

[SirHonkersTheFirst]

They (all the governments pulling this <deleted>) can walk the plank.

 

I bought an OTC antiogen test kit, tested negative. And well, that's that. I've done four now.

 

How many more?

 

 

[Cat Boy]

Kindly clarify/reconcile the title to the article,

"Mild, asymptomatic COVID-19 cases not entitled to claim under new insurance rules"

with the line in the first paragraph,

"Patients who are symptomatic or who have mild symptoms being treated in hospital or in home isolation .....will not be covered by the medical care or compensation scheme."

I presume that the article should read, in both cases, as the title, asymptomatic, that is no symptoms evident whatsoever.

[desert dueller]

4 hours ago, Puccini said:

How many nails can fit in a coffin?

In South Africa they love to steal metal, like railway tracks etc, to sell off. Thai coffins have so many nails in them now they might be a good export earner and sold off for scrap metal.

[Moonlover]

@dj230 I've copied this over from the previous thread which is now locked. You wrote:

 

'I was completely covered, if you buy dodgy travel insurance just to qualify to enter Thailand, you get dodgy coverage as well. 

With insurance, most of the time you get what you pay for'. 

 

Ok I understand that. I bought my Covid specific policy right here in Thailand from a well known broker whose name appears regularly in expat forums, which sounds like much the same as you.

 

But you say you were covered then. (past tense) But this article seems to throwing into doubt whether they still provide cover.

 

That is what's confusing me. It's a very muddled scenario.

[Ginner]

21 hours ago, bobbin said:

A bone thrown to the struggling Thai Insurance companies?

 

If I'm in a hospital through no choice of my own, I expect the insurance I paid for to "cough" up the agreed compensation...

Agree. tourist with a positive test, but no symptoms, on arrival are taken to the hospital, no choice. and they are expected to pay for the stay weather treated or not and their insurance wont cover it.

[dj230]

35 minutes ago, Moonlover said:

@dj230 I've copied this over from the previous thread which is now locked. You wrote:

 

'I was completely covered, if you buy dodgy travel insurance just to qualify to enter Thailand, you get dodgy coverage as well. 

With insurance, most of the time you get what you pay for'. 

 

Ok I understand that. I bought my Covid specific policy right here in Thailand from a well known broker whose name appears regularly in expat forums, which sounds like much the same as you.

 

But you say you were covered then. (past tense) But this article seems to throwing into doubt whether they still provide cover.

 

That is what's confusing me. It's a very muddled scenario.

I bought mine from a Canadian insurance company from where I travelled from. When you buy travel insurance they send you a policy with all the details on what is covered and what isn’t covered. 
In Canada the insurance company can’t just change your policy randomly during coverage. 
That’s one reason I didn’t buy insurance from Thailand as I’m not familiar with the laws and risks associated with insurance from Thai companies. 

 

Edited February 9, 2022 by dj230

[JackGats]

6 hours ago, alex8912 said:

Does anyone know an insurance company that a "tourist " can use to stay for 60 days or less that is cheaper or much better than let's say AXA which is about 3,100 baht per month for short term 50k covid insurance?  If Thai companies don't cover this do others?  Can ANYONE from most countries be accepted as well?  If not I guess most will just buy the Thai covid insurance that never really paid for asymptotic positive test result on day 1 or day 5 after arrival.  I have to buy insurance by tomorrow or next day to apply for Thailand Pass. I'm sure others have to soon as well. As a side note. I need to come to Thailand. Florida, Greece , Spain and Philippines as well as Mexico and others are NOT options????

I took Luma Lite. It is also around 3000 per month.

Edited February 9, 2022 by JackGats

[connda]

21 hours ago, feasantplukka said:

So if your insurance company don't cover a quarantine in Hospital if asymptomatic why stipulate the need to have it?

If you are positive that's should be cause enough, it's like saying car insurance doesn't cover you for a minor bump only a write off????

Madness the whole process 

This really is one hell of a deal for corporate entities such as hospitals and insurance companies when in comes to non-Thais.  The "public-private partnership" of the government working in conjunction with these corporations work together to create the legal basis to:
1. force foreigners who are not sick into forced isolation in expensive hospitals therefore adding hundreds of million Thai baht to the private hospitals revenue streams; while
2. absolving insurance companies from having to pay for the foreigners forced isolation; thus
3. dumping the entire financial burden on foreigners who now make excellent targets for a quasi-legal financial extortion based on a narrative of 'asymptomatic carriers.'

Again - with the exception of those of us who remain in Thailand because we have families, I don't see why anyone else (tourists or retirees) would want to remain here as long as were are collectively seen as a deep-pocket source of income for padding the revenue streams of Thai private hospitals while its impossible to obtain insurance against the eventuality that this system will eventually target us based on a PCR test which can be manipulated (cycle counts) to produce false positive.  Very, very, very lucrative for hospitals.  Extremely risky financially for those of us who stay.