USA bank will not allow expat American to have account

[Jingthing]

20 minutes ago, Sheryl said:

I have accounts with Lafayette Federal Credit Union and with USAA. The latter required memebeship which in turn requires that you or a parent or spouse be ex-military.

 

Both are fine with my being abroad, in fact I get my statements at my Thai address.

 

State Dept Federal Credit Union is also used by many.

 

Capital One is also said to be expat-friendly.

 

 

 

 

 

 

I'm not sure Capital One is fully expat friendly. My impression is that many people still fake US residency with them but they are not aggressive with smoking out expats. People like them because of their favorable international ATM policies. I think they recently added 2FA where you must have a US based mobile account in your name and voip and google voice not OK.

Edited February 18, 2022 by Jingthing

[Pib]

6 hours ago, Jingthing said:

 I think they recently added 2FA where you must have a US based mobile account in your name and voip and google voice not OK.

Cap1 offers pretty generous 2FA Google Voice, which is VOIP, works fine with Cap1.     Their system will also voice call you with the code....even to a landline.  Can also use their app for 2FA.  I can't speak to using a foreign number.

 

 

 

[ujong]

I used to think it was somewhat questionable to use a US residential address while living overseas. But 26 years abroad has given me a lot of time to learn about it.
 

One thing for certain, there is nothing illegal about providing a US address despite not living in the US. Anyone who tells you otherwise is either misinformed or is trying to sell you something. You are well within your rights.

 

On the rare occasions when I’ve been asked directly by my US FI about where I live, I just tell them that I work overseas. They have never pried any further about my actual residence. 

 

I have observed there are 3 categories of US FI. The first are the “blissfully unaware” — the small credit unions that have no exposure to the world. Second are the “running scared” types — they just know it’s a risk and decided it’s not worth their time or trouble. Third are the “well informed” — they are smart enough to know that by you giving them a US address, that gives them enough legal cover in case any issues come up.

 

What kind of issues you might ask? Here are a few examples: 
 

Like the US, foreign jurisdictions often have laws regarding consumer protections and disclosures that apply to any residents who may live there, this is especially so in places like Europe. Failure to comply can bring legal action on the FI for failing to comply, when they have account holders who clearly live there based on their address. 
 

Within the US, most traditional mutual funds have terms and conditions that restrict their sale to US residents only. If a US FI sells a MF to you while knowing you are not residing in the US, it is violating those terms and could get in trouble. 
 

You will notice I haven’t mentioned the Patriot Act, and for good reason, there really isn’t anything in there that prevents a US FI from working with customers abroad. The rules about identifying suspicious transactions and the like, apply to all accounts, no matter what address is tied to it.

[Jingthing]

6 minutes ago, ujongjoe said:

I used to think it was somewhat questionable to use a US residential address while living overseas. But 26 years abroad has given me a lot of time to learn about it.
 

One thing for certain, there is nothing illegal about providing a US address despite not living in the US. Anyone who tells you otherwise is either misinformed or is trying to sell you something. You are well within your rights.

 

On the rare occasions when I’ve been asked directly by my US FI about where I live, I just tell them that I work overseas. They have never pried any further about my actual residence. 

 

I have observed there are 3 categories of US FI. The first are the “blissfully unaware” — the small credit unions that have no exposure to the world. Second are the “running scared” types — they just know it’s a risk and decided it’s not worth their time or trouble. Third are the “well informed” — they are smart enough to know that by you giving them a US address, that gives them enough legal cover in case any issues come up.

 

What kind of issues you might ask? Here are a few examples: 
 

Like the US, foreign jurisdictions often have laws regarding consumer protections and disclosures that apply to any residents who may live there, this is especially so in places like Europe. Failure to comply can bring legal action on the FI for failing to comply, when they have account holders who clearly live there based on their address. 
 

Within the US, most traditional mutual funds have terms and conditions that restrict their sale to US residents only. If a US FI sells a MF to you while knowing you are not residing in the US, it is violating those terms and could get in trouble. 
 

You will notice I haven’t mentioned the Patriot Act, and for good reason, there really isn’t anything in there that prevents a US FI from working with customers abroad. The rules about identifying suspicious transactions and the like, apply to all accounts, no matter what address is tied to it.

I agree that it is not illegal to fake being a U.S. resident to keep firms happy, but the fact remains many firms are actively smoking out expats and they don't want their business. So expats are often forced to live in ethical grey areas about honesty. 

 

There are cases where legal issues come into play. For example when renewing a state driver's license you may be compelled to swear and sign that you are really a state resident. If you aren't that must surely be a criminal matter if that was ever actually pursued.

Edited February 18, 2022 by Jingthing

[gamb00ler]

On 2/17/2022 at 7:42 PM, FACTOR said:

ACA is $55 a year for me to join, being over 65 years old.  As you say, they are a good organization to support.

 

On the other hand, I might look into joining via a consumer organization -- where do you find out about those? Boy, I have been off the beaten path for a while! 

American Consumer Council (ACC) is another organization that SDFCU recognizes so that you can open a new account with them.  A one year membership for $8 is sufficient to join ACC.  Join online, download your Certificate of Membership and then submit application to SDFCU.

 

https://www.americanconsumercouncil.org/

Edited February 18, 2022 by gamb00ler
link+details

[Jingthing]

28 minutes ago, Pib said:

Cap1 offers pretty generous 2FA Google Voice, which is VOIP, works fine with Cap1.     Their system will also voice call you with the code....even to a landline.  Can also use their app for 2FA.  I can't speak to using a foreign number.

 

 

 

Thanks for the update though of course policies can always change. I don't actually have a Cap One account but got my apparently false info from a high profile expat that does. 

[ujong]

33 minutes ago, gamb00ler said:

American Consumer Council (ACC) is another organization that SDFCU recognizes so that you can open a new account with them.  A one year membership for $8 is sufficient to join ACC.  Join online, download your Certificate of Membership and then submit application to SDFCU.

 

https://www.americanconsumercouncil.org/

The ACC has a promo code for free membership, so you don’t even need to pay $8. Just google it.

[ujong]

46 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

I agree that it is not illegal to fake being a U.S. resident to keep firms happy, but the fact remains many firms are actively smoking out expats and they don't want their business. So expats are often forced to live in ethical grey areas about honesty. 

 

There are cases where legal issues come into play. For example when renewing a state driver's license you may be compelled to swear and sign that you are really a state resident. If you aren't that must surely be a criminal matter if that was ever actually pursued.

I agree, some brokers like Merrill Edge are famous for this — they see you logging on from overseas too much and they’ll shut you down. Schwab & Fidelity are better in this regard. I’ve used TD Ameritrade for the last 26 years, never changed the address, never use VPN and it’s never been an issue. 

 

The driver’s license thing is more sticky, I had to do tick that box. I just told myself - well, things change, maybe I was expecting to be a resident, but my employer called me up and renewed my contract to work overseas again. Things don’t always fit neatly in little boxes.

[FACTOR]

Jingthing and ujongjoe -- You get first place/s for providing the most useful responses to my original post. Thanks.

[jerrymahoney]

A few years ago I needed to open a new US brokerage account. They required proof of residence such as a property tax bill or utility bill in my name.  Drivers license, etc. didn't cut it.

 

I was not able to open a new account but had to modify an existing account which was a less desirable compromise.

[silverhawk_usa]

On 2/17/2022 at 7:49 PM, Etaoin Shrdlu said:

I was able to open an account with Chase in 2018 using my Thai address when I was in the US on a visit.  Chase took a copy of my passport and a copy of a bank statement showing my Thai address. Chase sent my debit card and a box of checks to me here in Bangkok by FedEx. They send me 2FA by sms to my Thai phone number when needed, usually if I make a large purchase with my debit card, but don't routinely require it for website logins.

 

So far, so good.

I have used Chase Bank since 2007. They were fully aware of my living permanently in Thailand when I opened the account and I have never had a problem (savings and checking).  My Thai address is on the account and my Visa credit card.  When expired, they send my new card to Thailand.  My Thai wife has her own card on the same account.  Also, Wire Transfers generally cast $25 to send to my Bangkok Bank FCA account. This includes large amounts. All done on-line. My pension and IRS refunds also direct deposit to Chase.

[walt1]

My credit union recently changed IT providers and now I can't even log in to internet banking. When I questioned why was told they get too much malicious traffic from Thailand so block anything from here. I can still call in to take care of some stuff but a pita. Will be looking into the credit union mentioned before.   

[ujong]

1 hour ago, walt1 said:

My credit union recently changed IT providers and now I can't even log in to internet banking. When I questioned why was told they get too much malicious traffic from Thailand so block anything from here. I can still call in to take care of some stuff but a pita. Will be looking into the credit union mentioned before.   

That is the #1 reason I opened an account with SDFCU, in case I get locked out of my FI.
 

SDFCU is primarily set up to serve more than 13,000 members of the foreign service, they are not going to turn their backs on overseas customers. 

Edited February 19, 2022 by ujongjoe

[Sheryl]

1 hour ago, walt1 said:

My credit union recently changed IT providers and now I can't even log in to internet banking. When I questioned why was told they get too much malicious traffic from Thailand so block anything from here. I can still call in to take care of some stuff but a pita. Will be looking into the credit union mentioned before.   

Have you tried with a US VPN? That is what I use to log on to my US FI.

[Jingthing]

1 minute ago, Sheryl said:

Have you tried with a US VPN? That is what I use to log on to my US FI.

Do you mind saying what VPN brand you use? 

[walt1]

5 minutes ago, Sheryl said:

Have you tried with a US VPN? That is what I use to log on to my US FI.

Yes several different ones. 

[ujong]

3 minutes ago, Sheryl said:

Have you tried with a US VPN? That is what I use to log on to my US FI.

I often complain to IT providers in the US for blocking all foreign internet traffic. One even told me I should use a VPN… to which I replied, well if anyone can get around the block with a VPN, then why block it at all? They didn’t respond! 
 

VPN will probably work, but I always feel a little uneasy logging into my accounts through a VPN, even though I use one that is supposed to be reliable.

 

I use StrongVPN. They have been around a long time and have good CS. They always have promos that bring it down to around $3/mo, and I even bought one of their VPN routers so I can connect any/all devices to the additional wifi point that is always on VPN. I’ve also consistently heard good things about ExpressVPN and NordVPN. 

[Sheryl]

1 hour ago, Jingthing said:

Do you mind saying what VPN brand you use? 

ProtonVPN (comes with my Proton Mail account)

 

I don't use it routinely, only when it seems necessary. I find a fair number of US sites seem to block overseas (or at least Thai) ISPs

[DrJoy]

On 2/16/2022 at 5:09 PM, FACTOR said:

expat friendly

Blue Ridge Bank, works fine for me.

 

https://www.blueridgebank.com/

[FACTOR]

Regarding VPNs (which I know little about), if I use a VPN, the bank's or FI's online system will not detect that I am logging in from outside the USA, right?

 

I've just joined ACA, to eventually open an account with SDFCU, thanks to Jingthing's and Ujongjoe's input.

 

Now I'm thinking a VPN might give me an extra layer of ... what's the word, autonomy, anonymity, discretion...? Although I'm not trying to hide anything, just trying to adapt ..., survive?

 

So any insights, suggestions regarding using a VPN for online banking/brokerage for an overseas American is appreciated.

 

Thank you.

[Pib]

The only real benefit a VPN will provide you for online U.S. banking is you can select a U.S. VPN server and then the bank thinks you are are logging in from the U.S.   And whether a bank cares whether you live in or outside the U.S., some banks may require addition 2FA when logging on from outside the U.S.   By additional 2FA I mean it would require 2FA for every logon whereas if logging on from the U.S. 2FA may not be required for every logon.  Each bank has different online security policies.

 

Yes, a VPN also provides  a layer of tunnel encryption between you and the VPN server (not all the way to the bank), but since banks use a secure "HTTPS" connection you will have a encrypted connection "all the way to the bank" even if you don't use a VPN connection.

 

 

[GinBoy2]

So let's get real.

 

There are a few Credit Unions that will still allow Expat accounts for now.

 

But the writing is on the wall. Most financial institutions are moving to 2 factor authentication,

Thank You Bin Laden for exposing the holes in the financial system for moving money for nefarious purposes!

 

So options are limited. A real brick and mortar address is becoming the norm.

 

Phone access the same. VOIP's aren't cutting it, the banks software always detects it.

 

Get the cheapest plan you can from a US provider that supports WiFi calling to satisfy the SMS code thing

[ujong]

6 hours ago, FACTOR said:

Regarding VPNs (which I know little about), if I use a VPN, the bank's or FI's online system will not detect that I am logging in from outside the USA, right?

 

I've just joined ACA, to eventually open an account with SDFCU, thanks to Jingthing's and Ujongjoe's input.

 

Now I'm thinking a VPN might give me an extra layer of ... what's the word, autonomy, anonymity, discretion...? Although I'm not trying to hide anything, just trying to adapt ..., survive?

 

So any insights, suggestions regarding using a VPN for online banking/brokerage for an overseas American is appreciated.

 

Thank you.

No guarantees that they can’t detect you are using a VPN. Even some streaming services out of the US (the main reason most people get a VPN) are starting to detect it. 
 

Personally, I wouldn’t get a VPN for banking/brokerage services. I have been logging in from overseas for 26 years now and almost never had any issues with my banks/brokers.
 

The only FI that gave me issues with VoIP 2FA is Citi, but they could call my VoIP number when they needed to authenticate me for Face ID, and now that Google Voice can ring my phone starting last year, I was able to do that.

 

Overall, I couldn’t be happier with Google Voice, been using it since 2013 and haven’t paid a single cent. 

[GrandPapillon]

9 hours ago, GinBoy2 said:

Thank You Bin Laden for exposing the holes in the financial system for moving money for nefarious purposes!

911 had nothing to do with this per se, the US Treasury had these plans long ago to control overseas Americans financials, and they just needed the right excuse

 

911 was awesome for government agencies, it gave them the right justifications for a full monitoring of every activities in the world

 

people were just too stupid to see it coming, and fell for it. Can't blame them, it was an elaborate plan that was just waiting for the right timing for execution.

[taxout]

I've had problems with a VPN especially when using an app instead of browser login. I think it's easier to know you're using a VPN with an app.

[digbeth]

regarding VPNs and online access, surely you're allowed to access your accounts online while you're on holiday right? even if the bank's security flag it as potential hacking, they probably aren't actively searching for non-resident clients from foreign IP address alone right? 

[Jingthing]

2 minutes ago, digbeth said:

regarding VPNs and online access, surely you're allowed to access your accounts online while you're on holiday right? even if the bank's security flag it as potential hacking, they probably aren't actively searching for non-resident clients from foreign IP address alone right? 

Well some banks, credit card companies, etc. might block logins from what they consider dodgy countries (Thailand often) just based on one logon if the user didn't tell them they were traveling beforehand. Then you'd need to contact them. The firms that are hunting expats are looking for users that ALWAYS login abroad. 

[ujong]

53 minutes ago, digbeth said:

regarding VPNs and online access, surely you're allowed to access your accounts online while you're on holiday right? even if the bank's security flag it as potential hacking, they probably aren't actively searching for non-resident clients from foreign IP address alone right? 

It’s a great point - imagine traveling abroad and you need to access the app to lock your card… if you are unable to, who pays for the unauthorized charges? But honestly, I’ve yet to come across any FI that outright blocks overseas access, though it would not surprise me if there are a few. There is an FI or two that monitor your logins and will give you the boot if you always login from overseas - Merrill Edge is famous for that.
 

The main blockages I’ve seen are with streaming media. Newer apps like Peacock (NBC) have found a way to detect and block VPN when I use my Amazon Fire Stick or my iPhone.. but somehow it still works on Apple TV. 
 

I think it depends on the VPN and also the app. For Netflix, it can detect sometimes, other times it can’t - - it’s almost like a cat & mouse game. I suspect VPN providers keep switching IP addresses as they get flagged, and app developers keep trying different ways to sniff them out.

[cmarshall]

On 2/17/2022 at 2:38 PM, khaepmu said:

So SDFCH seems to be a valid bank. I had never heard of them. Apparently, no problem having a Thai address. I wonder if I can have my social security check directly deposited with them in the event that my American bank, (I use my brother's address for this bank as he lives permanently in the USA) decides I can no longer keep an account with them. 

Sure you can have your SS check direct deposited to SDFCU.  In fact, if you do you will be eligible for their "emeritus member" status which has one very good benefit: a domestic wire transfer will cost only $6.  Now this is of value to an expat in Thailand only if his Thai bank is Bangkok Bank, since that is the only Thai bank which is also as US bank with an ABA number.  I do my monthly transfers as a domestic wire transfer from SDFCU to BKK Bank.  It costs the $6 plus BBK Bank's receiving charge which is about $15 in my case.  And it always arrives first thing in the morning of the next business day.  Unlike ACH transfers there are no limits on amount or frequency.  And they always show up as foreign transfers on BBK Bank statements.

 

Also, SDFCU has credit cards with good rebates and no foreign transaction fees.

Edited February 23, 2022 by cmarshall

[GypsyT]

Do you need cheap phone# and service for your US bank?

 

My bank started to call and/or SMS Verification Codes. Before they did Emails which was best for me.

So I started to search the cheapest Phone Service to use.

I found Ultramobile Paygo, which is part of T-Mobile, for 3/month. It's sold in some Tmobile stores but I had to get it from Ebay; https://tinyurl.com/bdcsuvm3

 

It's working well in the US but I have to see how it works in the EU, Asia and other countries.

I put $ 30 to my Ultramobile Wallett so monthly $ 3 will be paid automaticaly.