Assault on Kiev: Russian helicopters swoop above Ukraine's capital

[clivebaxter]

47 minutes ago, Kwasaki said:

Well Russia has been banned from taking part in the European song contest.

I still think the Ukraine president is irresponsible telling his people to fight I think it's pointless against the inward forces of the likes of Russia they have no chance.

 

France 24 seems to be having quite a balanced report on the situation.

Stalin ordered his people to fight to the last man and had anyone shot who retreated, the Ukrainians don't need any threats to defend their home land, comrade!

[Kwasaki]

8 minutes ago, Lacessit said:

How old do you think the Russians invading the Ukraine are? From what I have seen, their ages are not much older.

Old men send young men to wars to die, that's how it has been forever.

I don't know what ages the Russian troops are I would think there older experienced ones mixed with young ones is what I  would do. 

If I was Russian I would think having 12,500 tanks and many of them 4th generation ones would make things a bit easy against the 2,500 tanks that Ukraine has. 

 

My advice to Ukraine would be get neutrality how ever they can do that and surrender to save lives. 

[sammieuk1]

A red jackboot will be the fate of a lot more euro countries unless action replaces words send in the reapers and level the playing field or your next ????  

[rudi49jr]

23 hours ago, KhunLA said:

My understanding, from a wee bit of reading, (not watching MSM) that Putin & company are finally freeing the Donetsk People's Republic and the Luhansk People's Republic from any further bullying from Ukraine.

 

They've been thinking about independence ever since 2000, no benefit of being part of Ukraine any more, especally since events of 2014 and 2017, and they were turning points for them.

 

Unplug from MSM, and you may have a better understanding of the situation.

By your logic, Germany (Hitler) had every right then, to invade Czechoslowakia to ‘liberate’ the German speaking minority there. There are Dutch speaking people in Belgium. Does that mean Holland can invade Belgium to liberate them? Many Turkish speaking minorities all over Central Asia, maybe Turkey should invade all those countries to unite them all in one great Turkish nation?

 

And don’t knock MSM; just because the news they bring doesn’t fit your narrative, doesn’t automatically mean it’s not true, or ‘fake news’, as so many people like to call it these days.

 

The fact remains that Russia invaded a sovereign nation, using this ‘liberating Donetsk and Luhansk’ cr@p as a pretext. Putin and his clique have never accepted the collapse of the Soviet Union, and they want to go back in time and ‘restore’ those good old days. The hysterical propaganda that Putin and Lavrov have been using over the last few days is complete nonsense, not to mention utterly insane. Here’s hoping Putin will get his @ss handed to him. 

[KhunLA]

1 minute ago, rudi49jr said:

By your logic, Germany (Hitler) had every right then, to invade Czechoslowakia to ‘liberate’ the German speaking minority there. There are Dutch speaking people in Belgium. Does that mean Holland can invade Belgium to liberate them? Many Turkish speaking minorities all over Central Asia, maybe Turkey should invade all those countries to unite them all in one great Turkish nation?

 

And don’t knock MSM; just because the news they bring doesn’t fit your narrative, doesn’t automatically mean it’s not true, or ‘fake news’, as so many people like to call it these days.

 

The fact remains that Russia invaded a sovereign nation, using this ‘liberating Donetsk and Luhansk’ cr@p as a pretext. Putin and his clique have never accepted the collapse of the Soviet Union, and they want to go back in time and ‘restore’ those good old days. The hysterical propaganda that Putin and Lavrov have been using over the last few days is complete nonsense, not to mention utterly insane. Here’s hoping Putin will get his @ss handed to him. 

apples & oranges ... ????

[tgw]

6 minutes ago, Kwasaki said:

I don't know what ages the Russian troops are I would think there older experienced ones mixed with young ones is what I  would do. 

If I was Russian I would think having 12,500 tanks and many of them 4th generation ones would make things a bit easy against the 2,500 tanks that Ukraine has. 

 

My advice to Ukraine would be get neutrality how ever they can do that and surrender to save lives. 

Ukraine won't fight tank battles.

They have infantry, and I expect cities to become very very difficult for the Russians.

I hope there is an anti-tank missile at every window.

[KhunLA]

Putin setting himself up for 'war crimes' accusation. Have to get in the Q though; Cheney, Bush, Blair, Obama ... then Putin

[Kwasaki]

23 minutes ago, Lacessit said:

European Song Contest? As if that is going to deter Putin.

What nationality are you? I suspect that has some bearing on what you are posting.

Putin may not be aware of it, but IMO he has bitten off more than he can chew. Ukrainians don't think of themselves as Russian, they have a different language and identity.

History is replete with examples of invaders who eventually had to retreat from a country with a bloody nose, because the cost became too high. Obviously the Soviets learned nothing from Afghanistan.

The song contest report it laughable typical media.

 

I'm English born of mixed races you tell me. 

 

Again your post I find supported by western media and listening to people without really thinking about the tragedy of the situation. 

 

The fact is Ukraine have no chance against the superior forces of Russia and the trouble should be stopped to avoid a slaughter.

 

 

[Fat is a type of crazy]

I think some here bought into the narrative of Putin as effective tough guy and conveniently ignored his treatment of Russians and others who held a different opinion or might want, heaven forbid, a fair election. 

Now they see Putin for what he is and all they have is 'America is bad too' or 'Ukraine should give in'. 

A different option is just to admit Putin is a cowardly dictator, and doing a terrible thing right now, and to stand with the Ukrainians. 

[Kwasaki]

20 minutes ago, clivebaxter said:

Stalin ordered his people to fight to the last man and had anyone shot who retreated, the Ukrainians don't need any threats to defend their home land, comrade!

I don't know what your trying to imply this is 2022 and weapons have been improve don't ya know. 

I  have given opinion and repeat Ukraine should surrender and negotiate a peace to save lives. 

[Kwasaki]

18 minutes ago, sammieuk1 said:

A red jackboot will be the fate of a lot more euro countries unless action replaces words send in the reapers and level the playing field or your next ????  

I think you should think that through again what you are instigating.

[Rimmer]

Off topic posts trying to drag USA and Iraq into the topic have been removed

[tgw]

 

Quote

 

Ukrainian soldiers win back Kyiv Hydroelectric Power Plant.

According to Energy Minister Herman Halyshchenko, Ukraine regained full control over the plant after a fierce battle. The plant’s staff left shelters and returned back to work.

 

wow, well done Ukraine !

 

https://www.facebook.com/100052259093871/posts/487047459713886/?d=n

[spidermike007]

12 minutes ago, Fat is a type of crazy said:

I think some here bought into the narrative of Putin as effective tough guy and conveniently ignored his treatment of Russians and others who held a different opinion or might want, heaven forbid, a fair election. 

Now they see Putin for what he is and all they have is 'America is bad too' or 'Ukraine should give in'. 

A different option is just to admit Putin is a cowardly dictator, and doing a terrible thing right now, and to stand with the Ukrainians. 

Thank you. Let us not forget he is a serial killing, thieving, despotic dictator. He poisons his enemies and critics, and kills at will. This man occupies the same netherworld as Xi, in terms of a complete lack of morality, and no limits to where they will go to maintain power. Not alot of difference between Putin, the Kremlin, and the CCP.

[rudi49jr]

9 minutes ago, Kwasaki said:

I don't know what your trying to imply this is 2022 and weapons have been improve don't ya know. 

I  have given opinion and repeat Ukraine should surrender and negotiate a peace to save lives. 

So Ukraine should surrender, and then what? Let me paint you a picture.
 

Putin obviously wants a puppet regime in Ukraine. Then Ukraine becomes a slave state, subservient to Russia. Do you think Putin/Russia will let it slide that Ukraine had the gall to fight back? They are going to crack down very hard on anyone in Ukraine who wanted to fight against the Russian invasion, they’re going to want to eradicate any and all opposition, either real or perceived. There will be show trials, many Ukrainians will be sent to prison or labor camps, or they will simply ‘disappear’. The good old days of the Gulag will return. Just look at Belarus, and you will see what Russia’s plans with Ukraine are.
 

Or do you have any illusion that after they have surrendered, life in Ukraine can go back to the way it was before? Granted, many lives will probably be saved if they do surrender, but what kind of life will the Ukrainians have under Russian rule? 

[Virt]

Ukraine is quite a large country, and even if the Russian aggressors succeed in taking Kiev,

it will be a difficult task to maintain that control.

 

Millions of weapons amongst the civilians and they are not afraid of using them.

The civilians will be able to kill a lot of Russian soldiers on daily basis,

until they run out of Russians to kill or run out of weapons.

 

So the west has to maintain the weapon deliveries to Ukraine for them to stand a fighting chance,

until the sanctions hopefully hurt Russia so much they have no other option than to back off.

 

How many Russian lives are Putin willing to risk?

So far the causalities are probably way higher than he thought it would be.

 

Huge respect to the Ukrainian people that fight to maintain their democracy and freedom.

 

 

[Kwasaki]

32 minutes ago, rudi49jr said:

So Ukraine should surrender, and then what? Let me paint you a picture.
 

Putin obviously wants a puppet regime in Ukraine. Then Ukraine becomes a slave state, subservient to Russia. Do you think Putin/Russia will let it slide that Ukraine had the gall to fight back? They are going to crack down very hard on anyone in Ukraine who wanted to fight against the Russian invasion, they’re going to want to eradicate any and all opposition, either real or perceived. There will be show trials, many Ukrainians will be sent to prison or labor camps, or they will simply ‘disappear’. The good old days of the Gulag will return. Just look at Belarus, and you will see what Russia’s plans with Ukraine are.
 

Or do you have any illusion that after they have surrendered, life in Ukraine can go back to the way it was before? Granted, many lives will probably be saved if they do surrender, but what kind of life will the Ukrainians have under Russian rule? 

So what do you recommend call up Biden and tell him to start bombing Russian troops in Ukraine.

[Lacessit]

56 minutes ago, Kwasaki said:

 

 

 

 

 

The fact is Ukraine have no chance against the superior forces of Russia and the trouble should be stopped to avoid a slaughter.

 

 

No doubt there will be a slaughter, both of Ukrainians and Russians.

I doubt any Ukrainian child has missed out on being schooled in the Holomodor, the man-made famine in 1932-1933 instituted by Stalin.

What you are saying is surrender, and let Putin do what he wants. Another Holomodor, perhaps. He is not noted for benevolence towards those who oppose him.

I don't know what you would do if someone invaded your country, maybe you do not have a country to call your own, or have no sense of identity.

I do know if I was an Ukrainian with their previous history, I'd be trying to kill as many Russians as I could.

 

[Mr Meeseeks]

Russia is fighting a 70's style war on a 00's enemy, albeit a smaller force.

 

This will get very messy for Russia as 70's tactics don't work well against embedded hi-tech small arms.

[Rimmer]

A troll/misleading unattributed post has been removed

[rudi49jr]

7 minutes ago, Kwasaki said:

So what do you recommend call up Biden and tell him to start bombing Russian troops in Ukraine.

I don’t have the answer. But the people in Ukraine seem to want to fight the Russians, and not let them occupy their country. I’m not sure if that is smart, but I admire their courage. Like those 13 Ukraine soldiers on that tiny little island telling the Russians on that warship to go f themselves. They knew what their fate would be, but they still told the Russians to stuff it.
 

Rolling over and surrendering would also send the wrong message to Putin, that he can do as he pleases. What will be next? The Baltic states? Putin has said many times that he wants those back in the Russian empire. Where will he stop?

[Lacessit]

7 minutes ago, Mr Meeseeks said:

Russia is fighting a 70's style war on a 00's enemy, albeit a smaller force.

 

This will get very messy for Russia as 70's tactics don't work well against embedded hi-tech small arms.

It's quite possible to occupy a nation with superior force. It's a lot more difficult to pacify it if the population hates you, and uses all kind of dirty tricks to persuade you to leave.

Reports from Kyiv indicate people are arming themselves with Molotov cocktails, IED's will probably be next.

[Kwasaki]

13 minutes ago, Lacessit said:

I do know if I was an Ukrainian with their previous history, I'd be trying to kill as many Russians as I could.

That's the problem do you really think Russia is going to stop now after all the condemnation of the what the Kemlin see's as the hypocrisy of the west. 

China,  UAE,  India aren't supporting the West and I guess a lot of other countries aren't either. 

[Kwasaki]

8 minutes ago, rudi49jr said:

I don’t have the answer. But the people in Ukraine seem to want to fight the Russians, and not let them occupy their country. I’m not sure if that is smart, but I admire their courage. Like those 13 Ukraine soldiers on that tiny little island telling the Russians on that warship to go f themselves. They knew what their fate would be, but they still told the Russians to stuff it.
 

Rolling over and surrendering would also send the wrong message to Putin, that he can do as he pleases. What will be next? The Baltic states? Putin has said many times that he wants those back in the Russian empire. Where will he stop?

We will have to wait and see it's pitiful to severe the Ukrainian spokesperson at the UN he keep asking for help but they ain't gonna get and sending them weapons I see as just prolonging the problem.

It's a sad situation and would of said to those soldiers stay alive and fight another day. 

[Kwasaki]

16 minutes ago, Lacessit said:

Reports from Kyiv indicate people are arming themselves with Molotov cocktails, IED's will probably be next.

What does that make you think. 

[Lacessit]

7 minutes ago, Kwasaki said:

That's the problem do you really think Russia is going to stop now after all the condemnation of the what the Kemlin see's as the hypocrisy of the west. 

China,  UAE,  India aren't supporting the West and I guess a lot of other countries aren't either. 

I don't think Russia will stop, and I don't think the average Russian is aware of what Putin's mania is going to cost by way of body bags.

It's pretty obvious why China is staying out, if Putin is successful that gives the CCP a ticket to Taiwan.

[Lacessit]

1 minute ago, Kwasaki said:

What does that make you think. 

It makes me think the Ukrainians will keep on fighting even after any surrender, what about you?

 

[ozimoron]

3 minutes ago, Kwasaki said:

What does that make you think. 

It makes me think they don't like Russian invaders.

[Chomper Higgot]

9 minutes ago, Kwasaki said:

We will have to wait and see it's pitiful to severe the Ukrainian spokesperson at the UN he keep asking for help but they ain't gonna get and sending them weapons I see as just prolonging the problem.

It's a sad situation and would of said to those soldiers stay alive and fight another day. 

So if no weapons are sent and the Ukrainian soldiers ‘stay alive and fight another day’.

 

What are they going to fight with?

[rudi49jr]

9 minutes ago, Kwasaki said:

We will have to wait and see it's pitiful to severe the Ukrainian spokesperson at the UN he keep asking for help but they ain't gonna get and sending them weapons I see as just prolonging the problem.

It's a sad situation and would of said to those soldiers stay alive and fight another day. 

Let me put it this way: what would you do if your neighbor kicked in the door to your house, shot your son, raped your wife and daughter, and told you this was his house now, and that you could still live there, but just in one room, and keep quiet, and you had to pay him rent and do everything that he told you to do? Would you accept that? Or would you try to kick the b@stard out of your house, no matter what?