Assault on Kiev: Russian helicopters swoop above Ukraine's capital

[friendofthai]

10 minutes ago, Bkk Brian said:

I was just reading a Russian media source (RIA Novosti) with Google translate from a twitter link and the theme of it was clearly that Ukraine needs to not exist. A total annihilation of Ukraine and a name change. [...]

Many people have noticed that the official goals of the Special Mission are complete nonsense. Officially, Russia would like to perform "denacification" of the Ukraine and then go back quickly. Is it possible? Of course not. Because even if you "denacify" the Ukraine, Zelenskyy will cancel everything 2-3 months later. And what`s next? Repeat the Special mission every 2-3 months and pay thousands of people lives for it?

[ozimoron]

6 minutes ago, friendofthai said:

Many people have noticed that the official goals of the Special Mission are complete nonsense. Officially, Russia would like to perform "denacification" of the Ukraine and then go back quickly. Is it possible? Of course not. Because even if you "denacify" the Ukraine, Zelenskyy will cancel everything 2-3 months later. And what`s next? Repeat the Special mission every 2-3 months and pay thousands of people lives for it?

Can you explain what these alleged Ukrainian "nazis" have done which is so egregious that it warrants invasion, bombing of hospitals and execution of civilians? I'm not excusing nazis in Ukraine, I'm saying that, apart from the usual small numbers of far right extremists which infest every country, they don't exist. Russia is ruled by a far right right fascist and has a small cadre of useful idiots supporting him here.

[rudi49jr]

11 minutes ago, friendofthai said:

Many people have noticed that the official goals of the Special Mission are complete nonsense. Officially, Russia would like to perform "denacification" of the Ukraine and then go back quickly. Is it possible? Of course not. Because even if you "denacify" the Ukraine, Zelenskyy will cancel everything 2-3 months later. And what`s next? Repeat the Special mission every 2-3 months and pay thousands of people lives for it?

Maybe Vlad should de-nazify his own country first. Starting with that horrible Wagner group, which seems to be the Kremlin’s pet terror organization.

[Bkk Brian]

4 minutes ago, rudi49jr said:

Maybe Vlad should de-nazify his own country first. Starting with that horrible Wagner group, which seems to be the Kremlin’s pet terror organization.

The Russian nazi Wagner group is now in Donetsk, Ukraine doing their thing, this from Bellingcat:

 

"Wagner mercenaries spotted in Donetsk. Photo, released by a GRU-linked blogger, made in front of Park Inn hotel where @OSCE was housed until recently (thus photo = now). Many of the Wagnerites are true Nazies, as some of them have told me. The irony."

 

Edited April 4, 2022 by Bkk Brian

[mikebike]

32 minutes ago, friendofthai said:

"denacification"

I read that as de-nancy-fication ???????????? too many "Nancys" in Ukraine?

[ozimoron]

42 minutes ago, friendofthai said:

They are only a temporary pretext for the invasion.
The main goal is to re-establish the former Soviet Union:
https://www.businessinsider.com/biden-putin-ukraine-invasion-trying-to-restore-soviet-union-2022-2

Of course the Ukrainian statehood will be destroyed during this process.
For tactical reasons, this is now not spoken openly. Vlad is waiting for the society to be ready for realising the real goals of this Special Mission.

I think most of us have realised that since 2014.

[Jingthing]

43 minutes ago, friendofthai said:

They are only a temporary pretext for the invasion.
The main goal is to re-establish the former Soviet Union:
https://www.businessinsider.com/biden-putin-ukraine-invasion-trying-to-restore-soviet-union-2022-2

Of course the Ukrainian statehood will be destroyed during this process.
For tactical reasons, this is now not spoken openly. Vlad is waiting for the society to be ready for realising the real goals of this Special Mission.

Your tone indicates that you think it's a done deal that war criminal Putin will succeed in erasing Ukrainian statehood. It turns out he has a lot more global resistance to that goal than he bargained for.

[ozimoron]

Finland appears to be getting closer to joining the NATO military alliance despite Russia's threat of military consequences if it becomes a member.

The country's politicians and NATO itself have both pointed to the possibility of Finland joining soon, and a recent survey showed a majority of the country in support of membership in light of Russia's invasion of Ukraine.

 

https://www.businessinsider.com/finland-joining-nato-appears-closer-despite-russia-threats-2022-4

[friendofthai]

22 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

Your tone indicates that you think it's a done deal that war criminal Putin will succeed in erasing Ukrainian statehood. It turns out he has a lot more global resistance to that goal than he bargained for.

The resistance of the West stems from the Russian inability to use nuclear weapons now. So the West behaves as if Russia did not have nuclear weapons. As If Russia were Iraq or Lybia.
This inability will persist for several more months for this reason:
 

On 3/30/2022 at 10:05 PM, friendofthai said:

I believe this is true for today. And an US National Security Advisor Mr Brzezinski explained why: because while 500 billion dollars owned by Russia’s elites still lie in American banks he can’t see any chance of Russia using its nuclear potential.

But Russia is already in the beginning of a huge replacement of the elites. So the situation can change very quickly.

[Jingthing]

4 minutes ago, friendofthai said:

The resistance of the West stems from the Russian inability to use nuclear weapons now. So the West behaves as if Russia did not have nuclear weapons. As If Russia were Iraq or Lybia.
This inability will persist for several more months for this reason:
 

Incomprehensible. 

[Chris.B]

29 minutes ago, friendofthai said:

The resistance of the West stems from the Russian inability to use nuclear weapons now. So the West behaves as if Russia did not have nuclear weapons. As If Russia were Iraq or Lybia.
This inability will persist for several more months for this reason:
 

I think everyone here should stop feeding this troll.  Just ignore him. In fact I have just remembered the ignored users list so I shall add him to it on him now.

 

Edited April 4, 2022 by Chris.B

[rudi49jr]

Meanwhile, in Central Europe, Hungary's own little Putin lapdog and wannabe (Viktor Orban) managed to win the elections again. That is bad news for Europe, bad news for the EU, and it sadly means that Putin will still have a foot in the door here for several more years.

[tgw]

26 minutes ago, friendofthai said:

The resistance of the West stems from the Russian inability to use nuclear weapons now. So the West behaves as if Russia did not have nuclear weapons. As If Russia were Iraq or Lybia.

and that's where you are mistaken:

the West tries its best to avoid direct conflict with Russia.

 

if Russia didn't have nukes, the Russian army wouldn't have lasted a week in Ukraine, its air force would already be destroyed, and Vlad would be either begging for peace or dead.

[farmerjo]

19 minutes ago, Chris.B said:

I think everyone here should stop feeding this troll.  Just ignore him. In fact I have just remembered the ignored users list so I shall add him to it on him now.

 

I like his comments,it's refreshing.

He gets 7 replies for every one comment so there must be something in the pudding.

This thread would self destruct if it was just hand claps all round.

 

[tgw]

2 hours ago, Bkk Brian said:

If you want to read or watch some of the lies and dangerous rhetoric that comes out of Russian state TV daily then follow this guy from the BBC, he brings us the translated highlights.

 

https://twitter.com/francska1

wow, thanks for this link, it is truly comical

[nauseus]

2 hours ago, mikebike said:

I read that as de-nancy-fication ???????????? too many "Nancys" in Ukraine?

I thought it was like that expensive hi-tech dental flossing technique. Oh well. 

[rudi49jr]

2 minutes ago, tgw said:

wow, thanks for this link, it is truly comical

Bit like Fox News on acid and shrooms at the same time.

[ozimoron]

Ninety years ago, Joseph Stalin’s Soviet regime inflicted a devastating famine on Ukraine, killing 3.9 million people in what became known as the Holodomor, or genocide by hunger.

Now Vladimir Putin, whose invasion has stalled on the battlefield, is trying to starve Ukraine into submission again.

Russian troops have laid waste to farmland, destroying agricultural equipment and planting landmines in the rich soil where crops should grow.

 

https://www.politico.eu/article/the-starvation-of-a-nation-how-putin-is-using-hunger-as-a-weapon-in-ukraine/

[friendofthai]

3 hours ago, tgw said:

and that's where you are mistaken:

the West tries its best to avoid direct conflict with Russia.[...]

I agree with you. The factor of elites can protect only to a certain degree. It does not guarantee 100% protection.
That is why Western countries are increasing their aid to Ukraine very carefully.
At first there were only minor deliveries for basic needs. Gradually, the volume, quality (and lethality) of deliveries increases. I am sure that 1-2 months later they will try to deliver medium-range missiles reaching Moscow.

[ozimoron]

10 minutes ago, friendofthai said:

I agree with you. The factor of elites can protect only to a certain degree. It does not guarantee 100% protection.
That is why Western countries are increasing their aid to Ukraine very carefully.
At first there were only minor deliveries for basic needs. Gradually, the volume, quality (and lethality) of deliveries increases. I am sure that 1-2 months later they will try to deliver medium-range missiles reaching Moscow.

Nope, if they need to attack Moscow it won't be Ukraine doing it. That would only happen in the case of a major nuclear/chemical/biological first strike by Russia.

[tgw]

4 minutes ago, friendofthai said:

I agree with you. The factor of elites can protect only to a certain degree. It does not guarantee 100% protection.
That is why Western countries are increasing their aid to Ukraine very carefully.
At first there were only minor deliveries for basic needs. Gradually, the volume, quality (and lethality) of deliveries increases. I am sure that 1-2 months later they will try to deliver medium-range missiles reaching Moscow.

I don't think so.

But I do hope the West ups its game and delivers to Ukraine everything it needs to beat Russia in that localized conventional war:

* That includes tools to make the sky too dangerous for the Russian air force (I don't believe Ukraine can get air superiority). So, many radar and SAM systems. I hope many countries send such air defence systems to Ukraine.

* That also includes better bombardment capabilities, for example short range ballistic missiles and short range cruise missiles, up to 1000Km. bye bye Russian bases,  Russian ships, naval base Sevastopol, bye bye fuel depots, bye bye ammunition depots. Ukraine needs a handful of thousands of these missiles to strike everything Russian military up to 500 Km within Russia.

* more drones. surveillance drones, fighting drones and electronic warfare drones.

 

Germany will send 60 AFV

https://bulgarianmilitary.com/2022/04/04/germany-sends-to-ukraine-ex-east-german-ifvs-based-on-soviet-bmp-1/

 

Poland will send soviet-era Tanks and get Abrahms in return from US

https://www.nytimes.com/2022/04/01/us/politics/us-tanks-ukraine.html

https://www.dw.com/en/ukraine-crisis-us-set-to-sell-abrams-tanks-to-poland/a-60829872

 

and I hope, someone, finally, will also provide planes !!!

[tgw]

Just now, tgw said:

I don't think so.

But I do hope the West ups its game and delivers to Ukraine everything it needs to beat Russia in that localized conventional war:

* That includes tools to make the sky too dangerous for the Russian air force (I don't believe Ukraine can get air superiority). So, many radar and SAM systems. I hope many countries send such air defence systems to Ukraine.

* That also includes better bombardment capabilities, for example short range ballistic missiles and short range cruise missiles, up to 1000Km. bye bye Russian bases,  Russian ships, naval base Sevastopol, bye bye fuel depots, bye bye ammunition depots. Ukraine needs a handful of thousands of these missiles to strike everything Russian military up to 500 Km within Russia.

* more drones. surveillance drones, fighting drones and electronic warfare drones.

 

Germany will send 60 AFV

https://bulgarianmilitary.com/2022/04/04/germany-sends-to-ukraine-ex-east-german-ifvs-based-on-soviet-bmp-1/

 

Poland will send soviet-era Tanks and get Abrahms in return from US

https://www.nytimes.com/2022/04/01/us/politics/us-tanks-ukraine.html

https://www.dw.com/en/ukraine-crisis-us-set-to-sell-abrams-tanks-to-poland/a-60829872

 

and I hope, someone, finally, will also provide planes !!!

I guess Ukraine has more pilots available now than planes, so I hope these pilots have already spent one month at F-16 flight school ! One or two months more and they are ready to fly with their new toys.

[RJRS1301]

17 hours ago, Jingthing said:

Its all about Putin. If he can sell a loss as a win there may be hope.

Reading from the former POTUS handbook

 

[RJRS1301]

"Russia's participation on the Human Rights Council is a farce," U.S. Ambassador Linda Thomas-Greenfield said on a visit to Romania.

https://www.reuters.com/world/urgent-us-pushes-suspend-russia-human-rights-council-2022-04-04/

[Chomper Higgot]

9 hours ago, farmerjo said:

I like his comments,it's refreshing.

He gets 7 replies for every one comment so there must be something in the pudding.

This thread would self destruct if it was just hand claps all round.

 

Isn’t that the definition of trolling?

[Chomper Higgot]

6 hours ago, friendofthai said:

I agree with you. The factor of elites can protect only to a certain degree. It does not guarantee 100% protection.
That is why Western countries are increasing their aid to Ukraine very carefully.
At first there were only minor deliveries for basic needs. Gradually, the volume, quality (and lethality) of deliveries increases. I am sure that 1-2 months later they will try to deliver medium-range missiles reaching Moscow.

The Russians have set themselves up for a protracted asymmetric war with a well trained, motivated military and non conventional opponent that has a limitless access to sophisticated and lethal portable weaponry.

 

There is absolutely no need to supply any weapons capable of reaching Moscow or anywhere much beyond Ukrainian’s borders.

 

The Ukrainians will fertilize Ukrainian soil with Russian blood.

 

Russia will keep sending its youth to catch Ukrainian bullets and shrapnel until it dawns on them the cost isn’t worth paying. 
 

 

[RJRS1301]

25 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

The Russians have set themselves up for a protracted asymmetric war with a well trained, motivated military and non conventional opponent that has a limitless access to sophisticated and lethal portable weaponry.

 

There is absolutely no need to supply any weapons capable of reaching Moscow or anywhere much beyond Ukrainian’s borders.

 

The Ukrainians will fertilize Ukrainian soil with Russian blood.

 

Russia will keep sending its youth to catch Ukrainian bullets and shrapnel until it dawns on them the cost isn’t worth paying. 
 

 

Unfortunately delusional dictators fail to realise their massacring of others is futile until they are either removed in a coup or by a bullet.

Their propaganda machine keeps the reality of death and destruction from their suppressed populations.

Russia could have maintained it borders, and worked on a safe future for its citizens and been respected, unfortunately the reputation of Russia is now worse than at any time since WW11, and it will take decades to recover

The west almost ignored Crimea and Chechnya, thankfully they are not ignoring this 

Edited April 5, 2022 by RJRS1301

[coolcarer]

10 hours ago, farmerjo said:

 

This thread would self destruct if it was just hand claps all round.

 

Wishful thinking on your part. Didn’t another poster say the same thing 2 or 3 pages in and we are now at 95, lol

 

Its not all hand clapping there are despicable atrocities going on and I fear there are plenty more to uncover in places like Mariupol where there is no power or internet coverage. Although I have no doubt the Russians will be trying to clean up all the evidence as we speak.

[thaibeachlovers]

21 hours ago, GroveHillWanderer said:

I dare say Ratko Mladic and Radovan Karadzic thought they were perfectly fine when the International Court opened cases against them, especially with them being on the winning side in Serbia, and all.

 

Didn't work out too well for them in the end though, did it?

LOL. Serbia doesn't have nuclear weapons.

[GroveHillWanderer]

45 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

LOL. Serbia doesn't have nuclear weapons.

Whether a country does or does not have nuclear weapons has absolutely no bearing on whether it chooses to give someone up for prosecution by an International Court.

 

Karadzic and Mladic thought they were safe because they were part of the ruling elite at the time they committed their war crimes - and they even remained protected for many years after the conflict ended.

 

However justice has this strange habit of catching up with people in the end. Governments change eventually (yes, even in Russia). Putin will not be in power forever. In fact if this war continues to go as badly for him as it has been doing, his fall from grace will hopefully come quicker than he or anyone else imagined.

Edited April 5, 2022 by GroveHillWanderer