Assault on Kiev: Russian helicopters swoop above Ukraine's capital

[Chomper Higgot]

7 hours ago, placeholder said:

Maybe not:

Russia accused of using ‘bunker buster’ bombs to kill remaining Mariupol troops

Around 1,000 civilians were still hiding in shelters beneath a steel plant in the besieged city, officials have said..

The commander of the Azov Regiment of the National Guard stationed in Mariupol, Denys Prokopenko, alleged Russian planes had began to deploy “bunker busters” to kill the last Ukrainian fighters and civilians sheltering in Azovstal steel plant - the scene of the city's last stand against the invaders' onslaught.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/russia-ukraine-bunker-bomb-mariupol-b2060505.html

What mindset puts a ‘Thank you’ emoji on that news?

[Chomper Higgot]

5 hours ago, Mac Mickmanus said:

Yes, it may have some significance in some areas of the World , but I did mean to us here on this forum , whether  we label them as being  mercenaries , soldiers , soldiers of conscience (I still have no idea what that means ) , its not that important or significant , as its still the same person doing the same thing  

It might not be convenient to your position on this war to consider these individuals as mercenaries but please leave the rest of us to use the correct definitions.

 

 

[Bkk Brian]

Lets hope this stands and they get bogged down and destroyed but more weapons needed to keep this up!

 

The battle for #Donbas goes so far by the same script as the battle for #Kyiv. #Russia is like a dog jumping up a fence that’s too high for it. The “fence” being the heroism of #UkrainianArmy, multiplied by help of the world.

 

 

[Bkk Brian]

#UPDATE Ukraine called Wednesday for urgent negotiations with Russia in Mariupol, which appeared close to falling after weeks of siege, as Vladimir Putin flexed his military muscle with the test launch of a new, nuclear-capable ICBM

 

 

Ukraine calls for talks in teetering Mariupol as Moscow holds ICBM test

 

Ukraine called Wednesday for urgent negotiations with Russia in Mariupol, which appeared close to falling after weeks of siege, as Vladimir Putin flexed his military muscle with the test launch of a new, nuclear capable ICBM.

 

Washington downplayed the test of the intercontinental ballistic missile and said it had been notified in advance, but Putin said it would make the Kremlin's enemies "think twice", raising tensions nearly two months after he invaded Ukraine and ignited a global crisis.

 

https://news.yahoo.com/ukraine-calls-talks-teetering-mariupol-213125611.html?fr=sycsrp_catchall

 

 

[RJRS1301]

9 hours ago, rudi49jr said:

It’s becoming increasingly clear that the Russian army, very likely following orders right from the Kremlin, have been behaving like animals in occupied territory. Indiscriminately bombing and leveling countless civilian targets like hospitals and apartment buildings, raping women and girls, torturing and executing hundreds (probably thousands?) of people; Hitler himself would have been very proud of them had they been German soldiers in WWII invading Russia. 
Never thought I’d see things like that happening again in Europe in my lifetime, but unfortunately I was very wrong. Russia has now become the evil empire that needs to be stopped, kicked back in its cage and contained forever.

Animals rarely torture and rape .

These people have only two descriptors "disgusting criminals".

They are not soldiers , usually soldiers defend  their own, or repel invaders.

 

[ozimoron]

19 minutes ago, Mac Mickmanus said:

If they are Russian people fighting for Russia , then they wouldn't be mercenaries because a mercenary is a person who fights for a Country that is foreign , we have already stablished that earlier in this thread , but as I also previously wrote in this thread, you can call them whatever you like 

Whatever they are, I think we can agree they are murderers, war criminals, rapists and animals. Their leaders should be indicted by the ICC. Russia has descended into barbarism and deserves to become a pariah state for decades,if not centuries. They have committed serious violations of the geneva convention wherever they have gone militarily since WW2. They make international agreements and then choose to ignore them. The elephant in the room is the rank fascism and disregard for the rule of law in everything they touch. Decency prevents me from saying what I really feel.

[thaibeachlovers]

35 minutes ago, Bkk Brian said:

#UPDATE Ukraine called Wednesday for urgent negotiations with Russia in Mariupol, which appeared close to falling after weeks of siege, as Vladimir Putin flexed his military muscle with the test launch of a new, nuclear-capable ICBM

 

 

Ukraine calls for talks in teetering Mariupol as Moscow holds ICBM test

 

Ukraine called Wednesday for urgent negotiations with Russia in Mariupol, which appeared close to falling after weeks of siege, as Vladimir Putin flexed his military muscle with the test launch of a new, nuclear capable ICBM.

 

Washington downplayed the test of the intercontinental ballistic missile and said it had been notified in advance, but Putin said it would make the Kremlin's enemies "think twice", raising tensions nearly two months after he invaded Ukraine and ignited a global crisis.

 

https://news.yahoo.com/ukraine-calls-talks-teetering-mariupol-213125611.html?fr=sycsrp_catchall

 

 

Why on earth would Putin negotiate when he's winning in Mariupol?

There was a time for negotiation, before the Russians crossed the border. Unfortunately that option was rejected.

[Mac Mickmanus]

8 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

And the ones who aren’t Russian?

Yes, as I previously wrote in this thread, non Russian would indeed be mercenaries 

[ozimoron]

2 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

The British empire a commercial enterprise, not military, and most British military action in the British empire was undertaken by commercial armies who were not paid by or run by the Government.

 

 

From a time when pirates enjoyed royal commissions for a cut of the spoils. At least some countries have moved on but they still retain some of the spoils of that era, like the Elgin marbles. Still, this isn't about Britain but the relevance is that they aren't still living in those barbaric times, unlike Russia.

[ozimoron]

European Council President Charles Michel visited the town of Borodyanka on his trip to meet with Zelenskyy, where Ukraine suspects Russian troops carried out atrocities.

"There are no words ... to explain what I feel. These are atrocities, these are war crimes.

 

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2022-04-21/ukraine-russia-war-live-updates-putin-zelenskyy/101004044

[thaibeachlovers]

9 hours ago, Slip said:

John form Guildford is arguably not a mercenary.  The nazis from the wagner group fighting on behalf of Putin certainly are. 

If he's not Ukrainian and is captured, it's likely that John will not be a happy chappie. I doubt he will have Geneva Convention cover either.

[metisdead]

Some off topic deflection "whataboutery" troll posts and the replies have been removed. 

[Bkk Brian]

1 hour ago, Chomper Higgot said:

And the ones who aren’t Russian?

Wagner are a rag tail bunch of assassins, rapists, and mercenaries in true legal definition for many of them as we all know and as you rightly mention they are certainly not all Russian.

 

"Thus, Wagner contractors have been described as "ghost soldiers", due to the Russian government not officially acknowledging them

 

On 7 April, it was reported that Wagner Group PMCs played a leading role in the Bucha massacre, according to Germany's Federal Intelligence Service. Intercepted radio communications allegedly suggested the atrocities were part of a plan to instill fear in the population.[187]

 

Wagner is believed to have a Serb unit, which was, until at least April 2016, under the command of Davor Savičić, a Bosnian Serb[8] who was a member of the Serb Volunteer Guard.

 

SBU issued arrest warrants in December 2017, for six Serbian PMCs that belonged to Wagner and fought in Ukraine, including Savičić.[87] In early February 2018"

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wagner_Group

 

2018

Donbass Brothers: How Serbian Fighters Were Deployed in Ukraine

Serbs carried out combat and counter-intelligence missions for several pro-Russia paramilitary units including the notorious Wagner group of mercenaries, BIRN has learned.

https://balkaninsight.com/2018/12/13/donbass-brothers-how-serbian-fighters-were-deployed-in-ukraine-12-12-2018/

 

 

Edited April 21, 2022 by Bkk Brian

[Rimmer]

More troll and off topic bickering has been removed, also a totally incomprehensible post and replies

 

Also now an unattributed post  a reply

[Chris.B]

9 hours ago, tgw said:

well, yes, they are mercenaries (all of them) in English language by the meaning of the word, i.e. hired soldiers, but mercenary is also a legal status defined by the UN, as well as by other countries which may or may not have the same definition as the UN, which means that some members of Wagner wouldn't be considered mercenaries if they are Russian or if their place of residence is Russia.

 

However, as Russia has not declared war on Ukraine, these 'mercenaries' should be considered terrorists instead. ????

 

Edited April 21, 2022 by Chris.B

[Kwasaki]

11 hours ago, Mac Mickmanus said:

OK, here is a repost of what constitutes being a mercenary and thus shows that the wagner group fighting in Ukraine are not actually mercenaries 

 

• (d) is neither a national of a Party to the conflict nor a resident of territory controlled by a Party to the conflict;

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mercenary

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10735955/3-000-Russias-feared-Wagner-mercenaries-killed-Ukraine-PMs-told.html

[Chris.B]

22 minutes ago, Kwasaki said:

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10735955/3-000-Russias-feared-Wagner-mercenaries-killed-Ukraine-PMs-told.html

3,000 of Russia’s feared Wagner mercenaries have already been killed in Ukraine after 8,000 were sent in to boost Putin’s flagging invasion

Daily Mail

[Kwasaki]

8 minutes ago, Chris.B said:

3,000 of Russia’s feared Wagner mercenaries have already been killed in Ukraine after 8,000 were sent in to boost Putin’s flagging invasion

Daily Mail

Yeah l posted because a Wagner unit member is classed by all media as a mercenary no matter where they come from. 

[Bkk Brian]

1 hour ago, Chris.B said:

3,000 of Russia’s feared Wagner mercenaries have already been killed in Ukraine after 8,000 were sent in to boost Putin’s flagging invasion

Daily Mail

Plus the still yet to be discovered crimes, or they may never be discovered due to the murderers covering up all the evidence?

 

"The BND told German leaders this shows how the killings were normalised and part of a deliberate strategy intended to sow fear and terror among the civilian population.

Further recordings are being analysed by intelligence chiefs 'with great concern' which have not yet been pinpointed to a specific place in Ukraine.

But they indicate crime scenes similar to Bucha in other cities across the country, particularly around Mariupol which remains under heavy bombardment."

[sammieuk1]

1 hour ago, Chris.B said:

3,000 of Russia’s feared Wagner mercenaries have already been killed in Ukraine after 8,000 were sent in to boost Putin’s flagging invasion

Daily Mail

There was a large pile claimed to be of them posted on telegram today unfortunately blurring has now spread there to????

[nauseus]

On 4/19/2022 at 2:17 AM, Jingthing said:

Much much more than a local scuffle:

 

Francis Fukuyama on Putin, Trump and why Ukraine is key to saving liberal democracy | Salon.com

 

 

This is mostly about Trump - not Ukraine - pathetic. 

[Bkk Brian]

Change of tact, Putin now declares victory in Mariupol while leaving the Ukraine forces and civilians trapped in the steelworks

 

Vladimir Putin has declared victory over the city of Mariupol after his forces spent weeks reducing it to rubble in a brutal medieval-style siege.

 

Moscow’s ‘surrender-of-die’ ultimatum expired yesterday having been ignored by soldiers holed-up in the site.

 

But now Putin has ordered his troops to block it ‘so that not even a fly comes through’, leaving those still inside facing starvation.

Russian defence minister Sergei Shoigu said the steelworks turned fortress, which has taken heavy shelling, is now ‘securely blocked’. 

 

https://metro.co.uk/2022/04/21/putin-declares-victory-in-mariupol-and-claims-hes-liberated-city-16507359/

 

Also being reported on the BBC

In a televised meeting, across a small table from his defence minister, Putin said there was "no need to climb into these catacombs and crawl underground through these industrial facilities".

Instead, he called for his forces to "block off this industrial area so that not even a fly can escape".

He added it would be "impractical" to storm the huge industrial area, where more than 2,000 Ukrainian servicemen are said to remain, and the decision was being made to safeguard the lives of Russian soldiers.

Edited April 21, 2022 by metisdead
14) You will not post any copyrighted material except as fair use laws apply (as in the case of news articles). Please only post a link, the headline and the first three sentences.

[Chris.B]

Putin in humiliating U-Turn as troops told to ABANDON storming key plant after resistance

 

VLADIMIR PUTIN has performed a humiliating U-turn, ordering his troops to abandon plans to storm a key plant after they faced tough resistance.

Russian troops had previously been ordered to storm the Azovstal plant in the strategically important Ukrainian port city of Mariupol. The fall of the city into Russian hands appeared just last week to be imminent. 

 

Daily Express

 

Edited April 21, 2022 by metisdead
14) You will not post any copyrighted material except as fair use laws apply (as in the case of news articles). Please only post a link, the headline and the first three sentences.

[heybruce]

4 hours ago, Chris.B said:

3,000 of Russia’s feared Wagner mercenaries have already been killed in Ukraine after 8,000 were sent in to boost Putin’s flagging invasion

Daily Mail

If true (I hope so) then it is probably because Russia is using them as cannon fodder.  I'm sure mercenaries from Syria, Chechnya, and other places also will be treated as disposable.

 

Someone would have to be desperate, or desperately uninformed, to take that kind of job.

[Kwasaki]

45 minutes ago, Chris.B said:

Putin in humiliating U-Turn as troops told to ABANDON storming key plant after resistance

 

VLADIMIR PUTIN has performed a humiliating U-turn, ordering his troops to abandon plans to storm a key plant after they faced tough resistance.

Russian troops had previously been ordered to storm the Azovstal plant in the strategically important Ukrainian port city of Mariupol. The fall of the city into Russian hands appeared just last week to be imminent. Respected military analysts had warned Ukrainian soldiers could be forced to surrender “within hours”. But the resistance against Russia’s efforts has been maintained and Putin has ordered his troops to attempt another strategy for taking the plant and the wider city.

 

Daily Express

 

Doesn't sound that good why not reveal all the report, heard today Putin said block it up that doesn't sound good for those inside does it. 

[Chomper Higgot]

6 minutes ago, Kwasaki said:

Doesn't sound that good why not reveal all the report, heard today Putin said block it up that doesn't sound good for those inside does it. 

Putin giving up riders to his military that failed to carry out the last orders he gave.

 

I agree, doesn’t sound that good to me either.

[Chomper Higgot]

56 minutes ago, heybruce said:

If true (I hope so) then it is probably because Russia is using them as cannon fodder.  I'm sure mercenaries from Syria, Chechnya, and other places also will be treated as disposable.

 

Someone would have to be desperate, or desperately uninformed, to take that kind of job.

How desperate is Putin having to recruit from Syria and Chechnya to get troops to fight his war of aggression in which the Russian military are being humiliated?

 

[rudi49jr]

5 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

How desperate is Putin having to recruit from Syria and Chechnya to get troops to fight his war of aggression in which the Russian military are being humiliated?

 

And more and more Russian soldiers reportedly refuse to fight in Ukraine:

 

https://www.rferl.org/a/russia-ukraine-treason-soldiers-refusing-to-fight/31806466.html

[Chris.B]

34 minutes ago, Kwasaki said:

Doesn't sound that good why not reveal all the report, heard today Putin said block it up that doesn't sound good for those inside does it. 

Let them Russkies know not to unpack their suitcases because they ain't going to be there long!  ????

 

[Chris.B]

Putin Wants To Save The Lives of His Soldiers

 

 

VIDEO: Putin Orders Army Not To Attack Steel Plant ????????????

 

 

Edited April 21, 2022 by Chris.B