Assault on Kiev: Russian helicopters swoop above Ukraine's capital

[Bkk Brian]

35 minutes ago, VBer said:

The estimated deaths of civilians is around 10k (Link), while the estimated deaths in Ukrainian army is 300-400k. Civilians obviously are not the targets.

while the estimated deaths in Ukrainian army is 300-400k.

 

I guess we'll wait for ever for you to provide a credible link to that B.S.

[VBer]

25 minutes ago, Bkk Brian said:

I guess we'll wait for ever for you to provide a credible link to that B.S.

The numbers are hidden, but in October 2023 it was 150k confirmed. Link

Compare it with 10k civilians.

[Bkk Brian]

13 minutes ago, VBer said:

The numbers are hidden, but in October 2023 it was 150k confirmed. Link

Compare it with 10k civilians.

Nothing in that link that gives confirmed figures. Stop lying.

 

31,000 Ukrainian troops have been killed so far in the war, Zelenskyy says

FEBRUARY 25, 2024

https://www.npr.org/2024/02/25/1233801790/ukraine-troops-killed-war-zelenskyy-russia-ammunition

 

[Gweiloman]

49 minutes ago, Bkk Brian said:

while the estimated deaths in Ukrainian army is 300-400k.

 

I guess we'll wait for ever for you to provide a credible link to that B.S.

Since every link that doesn’t agree with your narrative is labelled B.S. and not credible by you, I guess you’ll just have to wait forever…

[Bkk Brian]

2 minutes ago, Gweiloman said:

Hahahahahaha. Joke of the year.

Deaths are not jokes, no matter who gets killed

Just now, Gweiloman said:

Since every link that doesn’t agree with your narrative is labelled B.S. and not credible by you, I guess you’ll just have to wait forever…

He claimed the link confirms, it does not, read it.

[VBer]

14 minutes ago, Bkk Brian said:

31,000 Ukrainian troops have been killed so far in the war, Zelenskyy says

That is also lie. This is obvious to anyone who follows situation.

[Bkk Brian]

14 minutes ago, VBer said:

That is also lie. This is obvious to anyone who follows situation.

I follow the situation, I cannot say it is a lie and as I said, your link does NOT confirm it but I do know this was a lie:

 

while the estimated deaths in Ukrainian army is 300-400k. 

[Gweiloman]

10 minutes ago, Bkk Brian said:

I follow the situation, I cannot say it is a lie and as I said, your link does NOT confirm it but I do know this was a lie:

 

while the estimated deaths in Ukrainian army is 300-400k.

You know that is a lie, how? In your words, a B.S statement. You don’t know anymore or less than other posters, in spite of what you think.

 

At the end of the day, what any of us think or believe is not going to make one iota of difference to what’s going to happen.

[Bkk Brian]

1 minute ago, Gweiloman said:

You know that is a lie, how? In your words, a B.S statement. You don’t know anymore or less than other posters, in spite of what you think.

 

At the end of the day, what any of us think or believe is not going to make one iota of difference to what’s going to happen.

Its up to him to prove it, not me, until then it remains a lie

[Rimmer]

Bickering posts and replies have been removed

[rabas]

2 hours ago, VBer said:

The numbers are hidden, but in October 2023 it was 150k confirmed. Link

Compare it with 10k civilians.

 

This article is obvious propaganda. Author's name "Special", no references, rambling guesstimates (their words) and illogic.  

 

You need no more proof than the final conclusion where the author says Ukrainian Commander-in-Chief General Valerie Zaluzhnyi claimed the Russians had lost 150,000 dead. So, he opines, maybe he really meant Ukrainian dead. Not to be taken seriously. 

 

Also, the Youtube video you posted (since removed) of a Russian speaking guy driving around a Ukrainian graveyard as proof of war dead was in a civilian graveyard in Kharkiv. The author was lamenting the huge number of civilians killed by Russia. You can see this by setting English subtitles. 

 

Edit: I mention the video for the benefit of those who may have been misled by the false propaganda.

 

Edited May 14 by rabas

[thaibeachlovers]

5 hours ago, Presnock said:

Not sure where you have been over the past several years, but PUTIN has already been sending missiles against the Ukrainian cities killing thousands of civilians including hospitals.  Putin's control of tv stations in Russia only shows what supports his policies.  

While I consider that a huge exaggeration, I meant that the response would be mega times more than anything done before. 

All Russia has to do is send hundreds of drones over the border to use up Ukraine's limited stock of anti air missiles, then more against little to no opposition to destroy Ukraine cities like never before.

Escalation is a battle Ukraine will not win IMO.

 

Putin has nothing to lose by really pounding Ukraine- what are they going to do- issue another arrest warrant?

[Presnock]

2 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

While I consider that a huge exaggeration, I meant that the response would be mega times more than anything done before. 

All Russia has to do is send hundreds of drones over the border to use up Ukraine's limited stock of anti air missiles, then more against little to no opposition to destroy Ukraine cities like never before.

Escalation is a battle Ukraine will not win IMO.

 

Putin has nothing to lose by really pounding Ukraine- what are they going to do- issue another arrest warrant?

Hundreds of drones did that I blv last month and is why Ukraine begged for US additional support while the Congress was further disintegrating as a working body in my opinion.  This week the Ukraine has been invaded by thousands of additional Russian (maybe) troops - full scale invasion is how it has been described with helicopters over Kyiv too as well as striking more and more cities.  I agree that Ukraine can't escalate without more forces.  It is amazing that they have withstood the onslaught of the Russians already and most of the utilities, hospitals, power stations etc have been targetted daily as well as other civilian targets.  Just like sanctions, Hague arrests are meaningless.  But, if Trump wins, he is already inviting Putin to attack NATO countries and that the US would not bother him.  Trump only cares about Trump that is for sure and the Ukraine will suffer if he is the next president in my opinion anyway.

[GroveHillWanderer]

3 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

While I consider that a huge exaggeration, I meant that the response would be mega times more than anything done before. 

You think what is a huge exaggeration? That thousands of Ukrainian civilians have died from Russian missile strikes?

 

According to the monitoring organisation Action on Armed Violence, as of 20 March 2024, 6,034 Ukrainian civilians have died from explosive violence, with 67% of the casualties coming from missile strikes, artillery shelling and rockets.

 

Ukraine: AOAV explosive violence data on harm to civilians

 

So I think it's a fairly safe bet that at least a couple of thousands of those civilians have died from the myriads of Russian missile strikes.

 

For instance, as per the UN report below, in just one "wave of Russian drone and missile attacks launched in late December and early January [...] hundreds of civilians were killed and wounded in the course of just 10 days."

 

Casualties and Destruction from Wave of Russian Missile Attacks in Ukraine

[BobBKK]

7 hours ago, Bkk Brian said:

Nothing in that link that gives confirmed figures. Stop lying.

 

31,000 Ukrainian troops have been killed so far in the war, Zelenskyy says

FEBRUARY 25, 2024

https://www.npr.org/2024/02/25/1233801790/ukraine-troops-killed-war-zelenskyy-russia-ammunition

 

 Zelensky says - LOL

so naive - I guess you think Ukraine is winning huh?

[BobBKK]

7 hours ago, Bkk Brian said:

Its up to him to prove it, not me, until then it remains a lie

 Are you seriously suggesting 31,000 dead?  I mean seriously?  I just cannot believe what I read here. Sometimes, it's so immature. Ukraine is running OUT of people to fight - changing conscription rules -do you occasionally read the news? (I don't mean MSNBC, CNN).

[Bkk Brian]

1 minute ago, BobBKK said:

 Zelensky says - LOL

so naive - I guess you think Ukraine is winning huh?

Did he not say it then? What makes you claim I am naïve? Do you really think I believe it exactly? Or would you prefer me to believe the B.S. figure of 300-400k that has not link?

[Bkk Brian]

Just now, BobBKK said:

 Are you seriously suggesting 31,000 dead?  I mean seriously?  I just cannot believe what I read here. Sometimes, it's so immature. Ukraine is running OUT of people to fight - changing conscription rules -do you occasionally read the news? (I don't mean MSNBC, CNN).

What's that got to do with me asking for a link to his claim that 300-400k are dead?

[Jingthing]

3 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

While I consider that a huge exaggeration, I meant that the response would be mega times more than anything done before. 

All Russia has to do is send hundreds of drones over the border to use up Ukraine's limited stock of anti air missiles, then more against little to no opposition to destroy Ukraine cities like never before.

Escalation is a battle Ukraine will not win IMO.

 

Putin has nothing to lose by really pounding Ukraine- what are they going to do- issue another arrest warrant?

Putin has something to lose if he pushes his own country too hard in terms of economic pain and casualties if he starts mobilizing the Moscow St Pete crowd.

[BobBKK]

Just now, Bkk Brian said:

Did he not say it then? What makes you claim I am naïve? Do you really think I believe it exactly? Or would you prefer me to believe the B.S. figure of 300-400k that has not link?

 Of course, the lying Zelensky said it - which makes it worthless. The point is they are running out of people to fight - people don't want to die in this proxy war. Thousands have fled abroad. I think the figure of 400,000 is much more likely to be right - but who really knows?

 

[BobBKK]

1 minute ago, Bkk Brian said:

What's that got to do with me asking for a link to his claim that 300-400k are dead?

 The claim is worth as much as your 31,000 claim - we don't know the truth. What we do know is Ukraine is losing heavily, and we want PEACE.

[Bkk Brian]

Just now, BobBKK said:

 Of course, the lying Zelensky said it - which makes it worthless. The point is they are running out of people to fight - people don't want to die in this proxy war. Thousands have fled abroad. I think the figure of 400,000 is much more likely to be right - but who really knows?

 

IIs it as worthless as the 300 - 400k figure?

 

The actual estimate of Ukraine deaths is 50,000 by the way

[Jingthing]

5 minutes ago, BobBKK said:

 Zelensky says - LOL

so naive - I guess you think Ukraine is winning huh?

Ukraine was headed towards losing thanks to the maga fascists in the US stalling aid for six months but now they have a chance to turn things around.

[Bkk Brian]

Just now, BobBKK said:

 The claim is worth as much as your 31,000 claim - we don't know the truth. What we do know is Ukraine is losing heavily, and we want PEACE.

I provide a link, he did not. No it is not worth the same as much as you want it to be

[Jingthing]

1 minute ago, BobBKK said:

 The claim is worth as much as your 31,000 claim - we don't know the truth. What we do know is Ukraine is losing heavily, and we want PEACE.

Putin doesn't want peace.

He wants to erase Ukraine and make it a slave state of Russ.

[BobBKK]

2 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

Putin doesn't want peace.

He wants to erase Ukraine and make it a slave state of Russ.

 
I don't believe that is true. That is just the West's propaganda, the same as Iraq, Afghanistan, Vietnam and all the rest. The 2014 agreement was not implemented as agreed - and guaranteed by Germany amongst others.

[tgw]

2 hours ago, BobBKK said:

 
I don't believe that is true. That is just the West's propaganda, the same as Iraq, Afghanistan, Vietnam and all the rest. The 2014 agreement was not implemented as agreed - and guaranteed by Germany amongst others.

please stop parroting Ruzzian disinformation.

 

here is Ukraine II in the making : over 200.000 Georgians demonstrating against Russia-Law in Tbilissi (Georgia has a population of 3.7 million).

 

 

 

Edited May 14 by tgw

[rabas]

2 hours ago, BobBKK said:

 Of course, the lying Zelensky said it - which makes it worthless. The point is they are running out of people to fight - people don't want to die in this proxy war. Thousands have fled abroad. I think the figure of 400,000 is much more likely to be right - but who really knows?

Question.

 

Invading land armies attaching prepared defenses require far greater numbers just to not get killed. This is well known. Russia also sends wave after wave of poorly trained and equipped conscripts from streets and prisons in meat grinder attacks where they die in droves. This is well documented even by Russia, a recent Russian video shows a commander telling new troops they will all die, and thanks them.

 

You many not know that defenders have an advantage in local hospitals and doctors, which reduces deaths (but not casualties).

 

Given these well known factors that should greatly increase  Russian casualties, what logic do you use to say Ukraine has a 2X-3X higher death rate? Is it propaganda?

[thaibeachlovers]

13 hours ago, Presnock said:

But, if Trump wins, he is already inviting Putin to attack NATO countries and that the US would not bother him.  Trump only cares about Trump that is for sure and the Ukraine will suffer if he is the next president in my opinion anyway.

I'm saying that is outright BS, except for the bit about Ukraine suffering, as Ukraine will likely be left without any American military aid if Trump wins. I'm pickin' on day one after inauguration he signs an executive order to stop any shipments of military aid to Ukraine.

Too bad Zelensky, you should have negotiated while you had a better position to negotiate from.

 

[Presnock]

2 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

I'm saying that is outright BS, except for the bit about Ukraine suffering, as Ukraine will likely be left without any American military aid if Trump wins. I'm pickin' on day one after inauguration he signs an executive order to stop any shipments of military aid to Ukraine.

Too bad Zelensky, you should have negotiated while you had a better position to negotiate from.

 

Have to agree with you...saw the news last night, (of course from western/Ukraine sources - Russian losses yesterday 1740 (or so) lossed soldiers, 72 tanks destroyed.  Supplies still trickling into Ukraine but Putin is trying to wipe out everything in those areas closest to Russia so he can annex them into his control totally.  Guess we will all have to wait for November.