Assault on Kiev: Russian helicopters swoop above Ukraine's capital

[rudi49jr]

10 minutes ago, tgw said:

OSCE: Russia uses torture chambers, civilians as human shields in Ukraine

A new report by the Organization for Security and Co-operation in Europe (OSCE) details violent acts committed by Russian soldiers in Ukraine between April 1 and June 25. The report noted several particularly brutal cases, including rape and gang rape of children in front of family members, summary executions, and torture of civilians in torture chambers, all of which constitute crimes against humanity. 

If there is a hell, I hope the devil reserves an extra special place for these monsters (and their puppet masters), where they constantly get to experience all the pain and fear and terror they are now inflicting on others. I’m not a fan of the death penalty, but I think I will gladly make an exception here. Total scum.

Edited July 15, 2022 by rudi49jr

[Bkk Brian]

Murderers

 

AFP: #BREAKING British citizen Paul Urey captured by separatists in Donetsk dies in detention: official

 

Briton detained by Russian-backed separatists dies - TASS

July 15 (Reuters) - A British aid worker who was detained by Russian-backed separatists in Ukraine and accused of being a mercenary has died, Russian state news agency TASS reported on Friday.

https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/briton-detained-by-russian-backed-separatists-dies-tass-2022-07-15/

[rudi49jr]

1 hour ago, Bkk Brian said:

Murderers

 

AFP: #BREAKING British citizen Paul Urey captured by separatists in Donetsk dies in detention: official

 

Briton detained by Russian-backed separatists dies - TASS

July 15 (Reuters) - A British aid worker who was detained by Russian-backed separatists in Ukraine and accused of being a mercenary has died, Russian state news agency TASS reported on Friday.

https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/briton-detained-by-russian-backed-separatists-dies-tass-2022-07-15/

Wonder how the Russians are going to spin this. But judging by the deluge of filth and lies they have been spewing so far, I’m sure they will come up with “an explanation”. 

[RupertIII]

13 minutes ago, rudi49jr said:

Wonder how the Russians are going to spin this. But judging by the deluge of filth and lies they have been spewing so far, I’m sure they will come up with “an explanation”. 

Officials from the DPR, who were holding Mr Urey, said he died in captivity on 10 July from underlying health conditions and "stress".

 

Maybe they took his insulin away from him?

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-62178505

[rudi49jr]

35 minutes ago, RupertIII said:

Officials from the DPR, who were holding Mr Urey, said he died in captivity on 10 July from underlying health conditions and "stress".

 

Maybe they took his insulin away from him?

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-62178505

I would be “stressed” as well, if I were beaten/tortured on a daily basis. The Russians probably won’t allow an autopsy, and they won’t release the body to his relatives either, I imagine.

[rudi49jr]

OCSE sounds alarm on Russian filtration centers in Ukraine.

 

“There are reports indicating that people are subject to harsh interrogations and humiliating body searches in such centres,” said the 115-page report seen by AFP, calling the setting up of such centres an “alarming” development.

 

It added those found to have collaborated with Kyiv “often simply disappear” with some being allegedly transferred to Russian controlled territories, where they are detained or even murdered.

 

https://www.euractiv.com/section/global-europe/news/osce-sounds-alarm-on-russian-filtration-centres-in-ukraine/

[jvs]

I have been watching and reading a lot about what Russia is getting away with at the moment.

It is just horrible and they think this will go unpunished,  of course it will not.

Putin is just holding the world at bay by threatening to use nuclear power.

When is the world going to wake up and call his bluff? Tell him and his army to go <deleted> themselves and go home to Russia!

I know what could happen but is this really how far he wants to go?

Nato could run him out of Ukraine in a day or two, according to Kasparov.

And i believe that also,

The Cuban Missile Crisis comes to mind.

Putin will not stop until he sees the rest of the world will no longer tolerate

this kind of behaviour.

The question is who in power is going to be the first to suggest to give him a real

ultimatum and risk escalation with nuclear weapons?

In the end i truly believe it will come down to this,call his bluff.

Am i really so far off?

 

 

[tgw]

20 hours ago, jvs said:

I have been watching and reading a lot about what Russia is getting away with at the moment.

It is just horrible and they think this will go unpunished,  of course it will not.

Putin is just holding the world at bay by threatening to use nuclear power.

When is the world going to wake up and call his bluff? Tell him and his army to go <deleted> themselves and go home to Russia!

I know what could happen but is this really how far he wants to go?

Nato could run him out of Ukraine in a day or two, according to Kasparov.

And i believe that also,

The Cuban Missile Crisis comes to mind.

Putin will not stop until he sees the rest of the world will no longer tolerate

this kind of behaviour.

The question is who in power is going to be the first to suggest to give him a real

ultimatum and risk escalation with nuclear weapons?

In the end i truly believe it will come down to this,call his bluff.

Am i really so far off?

the whole world prefers the slow scenario without direct confrontation where Ukraine is helped but does all the hard work by itself. So if Putin does anything nuclear-evil, the escalation will clearly be the Ruzzians' fault and we will have the political capital to impose military measures on Ruzzia.

[jvs]

8 minutes ago, tgw said:

the whole world prefers the slow scenario without direct confrontation where Ukraine is helped but does all the hard work by itself. So if Putin does anything nuclear-evil, the escalation will clearly be the Ruzzians' fault and we will have the political capital to impose military measures on Ruzzia.

I can see your reasoning and i think you are right so in case it all goes boom Putin

can be blamed but in that scenario does it really matter?

Imo he is just a bully with a big stick and he needs to be beaten by a bigger stick.

I mentioned awhile back that The Ukraine and its people are fighting for all of us and that the rest of Europe maybe prefers it that way.But is that ethically right?

Edited July 15, 2022 by jvs

[tgw]

8 minutes ago, jvs said:

I can see your reasoning and i think you are right so in case it all goes boom Putin

can be blamed but in that scenario does it really matter?

Imo he is just a bully with a big stick and he needs to be beaten by a bigger stick.

I mentioned awhile back that The Ukraine and its people are fighting for all of us and that the rest of Europe maybe prefers it that way.But is that ethically right?

the thing is, if Putin takes such a stupid decision, it's not likely to all go boom, since Ukraine doesn't have nuclear weapons. what's likely to happen is a UN-backed conventional "sideways escalation" where Ruzzia is pushed back within its borders and given an ultimatum to remain within or else.

[Bkk Brian]

The UK to expect a few more nuclear strike threats from the idiots on Russian state TV with the RAF chief's statement.

 

 

RAF chief tells Sky News British fighter pilots ready for Russian threat to UK

 

"We have to be ready for that and that - to my mind - is the most significant lesson for European security that comes out the invasion."

 

"I am in no doubt that that is the clear and present threat we are training to be ready for. Clearly we hope it won't come to that and deterrence will work but come the day Russia takes an aggressive act against a NATO state we would be ready."

 

https://news.sky.com/story/raf-chief-tells-sky-news-british-fighter-pilots-ready-for-russian-threat-to-uk-12652529

 

 

[ozimoron]

CNN cable TV are reporting that 70% of Russian military attacks on Ukraine are against civilian targets. This is not a military campaign, it's a war crimes campaign. It's time a "coalition of the willing" decided to move to stop Russia from waging this war. Destroying our own economies and allowing millions to starve doesn't make sense now in favour of taking on Russia militarily. Waiting for Ukraine to get it done will be too little too late. Russia can continue to wage a war of attrition and blockade shipping as long as it likes. The more it does so, the more money it makes from it's own exports.  The west is going to get sick of this real soon.

Edited July 16, 2022 by ozimoron

[Mavideol]

43 minutes ago, ozimoron said:

CNN cable TV are reporting that 70% of Russian military attacks on Ukraine are against civilian targets. This is not a military campaign, it's a war crimes campaign. It's time a "coalition of the willing" decided to move to stop Russia from waging this war. Destroying our own economies and allowing millions to starve doesn't make sense now in favour of taking on Russia militarily. Waiting for Ukraine to get it done will be too little too late. Russia can continue to wage a war of attrition and blockade shipping as long as it likes. The more it does so, the more money it makes from it's own exports.  The west is going to get sick of this real soon.

agree but a better word by Russia's actions would be genocide and that's a war crime

[Bkk Brian]

2 hours ago, ozimoron said:

CNN cable TV are reporting that 70% of Russian military attacks on Ukraine are against civilian targets. This is not a military campaign, it's a war crimes campaign. It's time a "coalition of the willing" decided to move to stop Russia from waging this war. Destroying our own economies and allowing millions to starve doesn't make sense now in favour of taking on Russia militarily. Waiting for Ukraine to get it done will be too little too late. Russia can continue to wage a war of attrition and blockade shipping as long as it likes. The more it does so, the more money it makes from it's own exports.  The west is going to get sick of this real soon.

At some point Russia will realize they've kicked the hornets nest too much. NATO and other countries will only take so much of their threats and mass crimes.

[Bkk Brian]

Plan To Train Ukrainian Pilots On U.S. Jets Passed By House Of Representatives

 

he U.S. House of Representatives has passed its version of the 2023 National Defense Authorization Act, which, most notably, calls for funding to start training Ukrainian pilots on American fighter jets. The amendment follows repeated calls from Ukrainian officials and pilots for new aircraft, such as F-16s, with which to continue their efforts to repulse the Russian invasion.

 

https://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zone/plan-to-train-ukrainian-pilots-on-u-s-jets-passed-by-house-of-representatives

[tgw]

7 hours ago, Bkk Brian said:

Plan To Train Ukrainian Pilots On U.S. Jets Passed By House Of Representatives

 

he U.S. House of Representatives has passed its version of the 2023 National Defense Authorization Act, which, most notably, calls for funding to start training Ukrainian pilots on American fighter jets. The amendment follows repeated calls from Ukrainian officials and pilots for new aircraft, such as F-16s, with which to continue their efforts to repulse the Russian invasion.

 

https://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zone/plan-to-train-ukrainian-pilots-on-u-s-jets-passed-by-house-of-representatives

great news, yet I guess it will be vetoed by the executive.

[GroveHillWanderer]

4 hours ago, tgw said:

great news, yet I guess it will be vetoed by the executive.

Why do you guess that?

[Saanim]

17 hours ago, ozimoron said:

CNN cable TV are reporting that 70% of Russian military attacks on Ukraine are against civilian targets.

How the Ukrainians master that they never attack civilian targets, never any civilian casualties. Or did I miss something? 

[placeholder]

25 minutes ago, Saanim said:

How the Ukrainians master that they never attack civilian targets, never any civilian casualties. Or did I miss something? 

Inadvertent attacks are one thing. Targeted attacks on civilans quite another.

[Bkk Brian]

39 minutes ago, Saanim said:

How the Ukrainians master that they never attack civilian targets, never any civilian casualties. Or did I miss something? 

Yes you missed something, it would be a frigging miracle if Ukraine had not caused some collateral damage when targeting the illegal invaders including unfortunately a few of their own civilian casualties.

 

Quite different from what Russia's "Ruler" is doing.

 

Ukraine says nearly 70% of Russian missile strikes target civilian objects

[Saanim]

23 minutes ago, placeholder said:

Inadvertent attacks are one thing. Targeted attacks on civilans quite another.

 

6 minutes ago, Bkk Brian said:

Yes you missed something, it would be a frigging miracle if Ukraine had not caused some collateral damage when targeting the illegal invaders including unfortunately a few of their own civilian casualties.

 

Quite different from what Russia's "Ruler" is doing.

 

Ukraine says nearly 70% of Russian missile strikes target civilian objects

 

But that's what I have been missing:  reports, figures about such casualties, whether inadvertent or unfortunate collateral damage...   

[Bkk Brian]

Just now, Saanim said:

 

 

But that's what I have been missing:  reports, figures about such casualties, whether inadvertent or unfortunate collateral damage...   

Use a little logic, its impossible for Ukraine to confirm civilian casualties if any when they happen in Russian controlled territory. Although I'm sure you've been keeping yourself up to date on the Russian propaganda RT, Sputnik and telegram channels.

[jvs]

6 minutes ago, Saanim said:

 

 

But that's what I have been missing:  reports, figures about such casualties, whether inadvertent or unfortunate collateral damage...   

I have been missing rapports from the Russian side about how many of their soldiers

have died.

Do you know?

 

[coolcarer]

15 minutes ago, Saanim said:

 

 

But that's what I have been missing:  reports, figures about such casualties, whether inadvertent or unfortunate collateral damage...   

Just imagine if Russia had not invaded Ukraine and those thousands of civilians and hundreds of children that the Russians killed would still be alive today in their own country sovereign country.

[transam]

14 minutes ago, coolcarer said:

Just imagine if Russia had not invaded Ukraine and those thousands of civilians and hundreds of children that the Russians killed would still be alive today in their own country sovereign country.

But like Hitler, Putin doesn't give a sh_t, hopefully Putin will suffer the same fate as Hitler.....????

[Saanim]

1 hour ago, Bkk Brian said:

Use a little logic, its impossible for Ukraine to confirm civilian casualties if any when they happen in Russian controlled territory. Although I'm sure you've been keeping yourself up to date on the Russian propaganda RT, Sputnik and telegram channels.

The civilian casualties in Russian controlled territory? It's still Ukraine territory, isn't it? 

 

And the casualties had been reported over the last 8 years by OSCE Ukraine Monitoring Mission (not really a "Russian propaganda") up to their very last reports in February 2022, unless they were ordered out of the country. 

 

The reports about their early years after 2014  (not really pleasant) were reported even in Western media, not so much in the later years.   

[placeholder]

3 minutes ago, Saanim said:

The civilian casualties in Russian controlled territory? It's still Ukraine territory, isn't it? 

 

And the casualties had been reported over the last 8 years by OSCE Ukraine Monitoring Mission (not really a "Russian propaganda") up to their very last reports in February 2022, unless they were ordered out of the country. 

 

You want to know what happened to the OSCE Ukraine Monitoring Mission? Guess what? The Russian Federation ruled out an extension of their mission.

Russia blocks mandate extension of OSCE monitoring mission to Ukraine

Russia has refused to join consensus on extending the mandate of the OSCE Special Monitoring Mission to Ukraine, OSCE diplomats in Vienna say. The mandate of the Organization’s flagship operation in Ukraine, which has to be renewed on a yearly basis, will expire today, 31 March, at midnight.

https://www.shrmonitor.org/russia-blocks-mandate-extension-of-osce-monitoring-mission-to-ukraine/

[Bkk Brian]

2 minutes ago, Saanim said:

The civilian casualties in Russian controlled territory? It's still Ukraine territory, isn't it?   

Stop the baiting nonsense, its Ukraine territory that is temporarily in control of Russian murderers, as for your further deflection on the OSCE we've been through that countless times and you know well that Russia refuses to attend their meetings which are damning on the war crimes committed by Russia in this invasion.

 

"Today’s Moscow Mechanism report gives us an opportunity to pull back and document the unconscionable atrocity crimes, human rights violations, and abuses members of Russia’s forces have committed since Russia launched its brutal full-scale invasion in February of this year"

 

https://osce.usmission.gov/response-to-moscow-mechanism-report-on-ukraine/

[placeholder]

5 minutes ago, Saanim said:

The reports about their early years after 2014  (not really pleasant) were reported even in Western media, not so much in the later years.   

Are you implying that the OCSE mostly criticized the Ukraining govt? How to justify the fact that the Russians restricted OCSE monitoring to just 2 checkpoints on the Russian side of a border that extends for 100's of miles?

Under Fire In Ukraine, OSCE Questions Its Worth

OSCE official Ilkka Kanerva, speaking November 13 in Vienna, complained the organization had seen its capabilities hamstrung since launching a monitoring mission in July along the Russian side of the border. The mission is allowed to supervise just two checkpoints, the Gukovo and Donetsk border crossings, despite the fact that the separatist-held frontier stretches hundreds of miles.

"Let's be honest -- the mission is restricted to report only what it sees pass through the official crossing along the tiniest strip of the border," said Kanerva, a Finnish lawmaker who heads the OSCE's Parliamentary Assembly.

https://www.rferl.org/a/ukraine-crisis-russia-osce-monitoring-mission/26690263.html

[Bkk Brian]

20 minutes ago, Saanim said:

And the casualties had been reported over the last 8 years by OSCE Ukraine Monitoring Mission (not really a "Russian propaganda") up to their very last reports in February 2022, unless they were ordered out of the country. 

 

The reports about their early years after 2014  (not really pleasant) were reported even in Western media, not so much in the later years.   

OSCE Chairman-in-Office and Secretary General condemn intimidation and detention of OSCE staff in Donetsk and Luhansk

WARSAW/VIENNA 25 May 2022

 

VIENNA/WARSAW, 25 May 2022 - OSCE Chairman-in-Office, Foreign Minister of Poland Zbigniew Rau and OSCE Secretary General Helga Maria Schmid today reiterated their condemnation of persistent allegations against the Special Monitoring Mission to Ukraine (SMM) and called for the immediate release of four national Mission members detained in Donetsk and Luhansk.

 

https://www.osce.org/chairmanship/519042