CCSA to Consider Proposal to Suspend Test & Go and Thailand Pass

[joecoolfrog]

On 4/15/2022 at 11:06 AM, greenhornfarang said:

You think you are better than those who are unvaccinated? 

In terms of healthcare , the fully vaccinated are less likely to require hospital treatment , that is a fact. 

So in this respect , yes he is better than an unvaccinated individual.

[Deserted]

Perhaps they will replace the 'test and go' with 'come and go' ????

[spidermike007]

As is typical with policy here, there is no science behind the test and go system. Time to admit the problem is from within, and time to stop blaming foreigners for problems caused by all the deficient ministers, failed vax programs, border leaks, etc. 

 

Thailand is now humiliated by the anemic arrival numbers and the fact that most nations actually have adults making the decisions, who are not afraid of the dark. Will that make any difference? Was the tourism sabotage deliberate? 

 

 

Edited April 17, 2022 by spidermike007

[ding]

CCSA is smart to wait for Songkran BA.2 cases spike. It's a bit nastier than BA.1 and there are sub-types too.

Hospitals can't fill up so fast if things spike too much.

I understand their dilemma. 

[ding]

On 4/15/2022 at 4:45 AM, Trip Hop said:

I’d be more than happy if they kept that and it’s the sensible approach which would be accepted by most? No fear of being scammed the other end by over amplified PCR tests or false positive antigen tests. If you’re positive, just don’t get on the plane?

Yep, I've been asking what rtPCR test CT (cycle threshold) Thailand uses for many months. I had to cancel our previous trip because Japan AirLines cancelled our flight. That threw off our pre-departure rtPCR's and everything in Thailand. The travel rtPCR's where we live in America are very hard to get and result timing very dicey with 24 hours of travel time. It ended up being very expensive.

[Trip Hop]

1 hour ago, ding said:

Yep, I've been asking what rtPCR test CT (cycle threshold) Thailand uses for many months. I had to cancel our previous trip because Japan AirLines cancelled our flight. That threw off our pre-departure rtPCR's and everything in Thailand. The travel rtPCR's where we live in America are very hard to get and result timing very dicey with 24 hours of travel time. It ended up being very expensive.

At Xmas they ran my sample through 2 different tests. One at a CT of 40 and the other at a CT of 45???  Think they were checking for different variants?

[ding]

1 hour ago, Trip Hop said:

At Xmas they ran my sample through 2 different tests. One at a CT of 40 and the other at a CT of 45???  Think they were checking for different variants?

I think that's too high of a CT and may pick up tailings and scraps of spike protein that are not viable for replication.

I'm not a virologist or expert, however, I just study those people quite a bit.

[jacko45k]

6 hours ago, ding said:

CCSA is smart to wait for Songkran BA.2 cases spike. It's a bit nastier than BA.1 and there are sub-types too.

Hospitals can't fill up so fast if things spike too much.

I understand their dilemma. 

I was under the impression that symptoms were the same and it is no more likely to produce severe symptoms than the BA1.... it is even more contagious which may produce bigger numbers.. hopefully self limiting.

[ThailandRyan]

4 hours ago, Trip Hop said:

At Xmas they ran my sample through 2 different tests. One at a CT of 40 and the other at a CT of 45???  Think they were checking for different variants?

And you know this how, you watched it being done. You went to the lab yourself to see the machines and asked the staff. It was documented on your PCR-RT certificate sheet, or your just guessing? Which is it.  The machine does not check for different variants, that is done through another process sir and takes a few days to complete.

 

Identifying COVID-19 variants requires a special type of testing called genomic sequencing. Due to the volume of COVID-19 cases, sequencing is not performed on all viral samples.

Edited April 18, 2022 by ThailandRyan

[SGD]

Already, hardly any of the ASQ hotels signed up for the 5 day quarantine for unjabbed so what are the non vaccinated supposed to do and that includes those who had the pointless jabs a long time ago and whose expiry date is now up ?

I was looking at some European countries for connecting flights and many are back pre bat flue lies. Just bring your passport and you're good to go.

Thailand needs to drop it all, every piece of it.

[MajorTom]

12 hours ago, ding said:

Yep, I've been asking what rtPCR test CT (cycle threshold) Thailand uses for many months.

I was told by the laboratory staff at Bangkok Hospital its 40. They refused to put this on paper though as long as your test is negative.

 

If you test positive however, you will get the CT value on the test report at which cycle it was detected.

I got a positive test a few weeks ago. Its 5 different genes tested for, so it will have one CT value for each. Mine was detected between 29-34.

 

I had no symptoms so I did another PCR-test 3 days later. This was negative and I was able to travel.

 

 

[Trip Hop]

7 hours ago, ThailandRyan said:

And you know this how, you watched it being done. You went to the lab yourself to see the machines and asked the staff. It was documented on your PCR-RT certificate sheet, or your just guessing? Which is it.  The machine does not check for different variants, that is done through another process sir and takes a few days to complete.

 

Identifying COVID-19 variants requires a special type of testing called genomic sequencing. Due to the volume of COVID-19 cases, sequencing is not performed on all viral samples.

Err, no? It was stated on my test results!  FYI, there are different types of PCR test available from the manufacturers depending on which variant they are looking for? If you cast your mind back to around this time, you will remember a news article on here from the good doctor about how amazing they were by running samples through two different tests to try and identify Omicron?

 

P.S. Think you owe me an apology smart <deleted>?

[sandyf]

19 hours ago, bananafish said:

I know they have that worry, but it is unjustified.

 

The UK Health Security Agency publish their 'vaccine surveillance report' weekly.

Until recently, every week they showed the rates of infection per 100,000 by vaccination status.

 

Every week showed the same, vaccinated people are between 300-400% more likely to get covid than non-vaccinated.

 

Here's one such report, go to page 45 for the relevant table - https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/1061532/Vaccine_surveillance_report_-_week_11.pdf

 

Check out the other reports prior to this month that show this table, it's always roughly the same numbers, being vaccinated increases your chances of getting covid by 300-400%

 

To be fair, being vaccinated seems to reduce the risk of dying from covid. Unvaccinated, my risk of death is 0.001%. Vaccinated, risk would be even lower, at 0.0007%. 

 

That's a 40% improvement. But considering being vaccinated makes me 400% more likely to get covid, not being vaccinated is still a good choice. 

 

Also worth considering...

 

The rate of road deaths per 100,000 in a given year in Thailand is 32.7

 

In my age group, the rate of death per 100,000 from covid if not vaccinated is 1 (see UK government data in PDF above)

 

That means I'm 3270% more likely to die in a road accident in Thailand in a given year, than I am of covid if not vaccinated.

 

And my risk of being harmed by covid vaccine side effects is 0%.

 

I'm hopeful of Thailand scrapping requirements because the entire global response to covid has been a mistake, and we need to get back to 100% normality.

There are always those that will go to great lengths to try and justify their self centred views.

They claim freedom of choice but they expect those that defend that freedom of choice to give up their freedom of choice.

Anyone with any moral integrity would have the vaccination in support of those that have no choice.

[ThailandRyan]

3 hours ago, Trip Hop said:

Err, no? It was stated on my test results!  FYI, there are different types of PCR test available from the manufacturers depending on which variant they are looking for? If you cast your mind back to around this time, you will remember a news article on here from the good doctor about how amazing they were by running samples through two different tests to try and identify Omicron?

 

P.S. Think you owe me an apology smart <deleted>?

No apology will be forthcoming. PCR tests do not sequence the genome and type of variant. Only genomic sequencing can do that.

[zzaa09]

Perhaps September.

They're playing it for all that they can get. 

[Trip Hop]

38 minutes ago, ThailandRyan said:

No apology will be forthcoming. PCR tests do not sequence the genome and type of variant. Only genomic sequencing can do that.

I never said they do but it’s a fact that different types of PCR Assay detect different strains more effectively. Just check a medical suppliers catalogue for yourself and you will see that I am correct? Genome sequencing is used for confirmation and detecting any possible mutations/new strains? Not that I am an expert but I did have a lot of money in Novacyt up until about 15 months ago, so did a fair amount of reading on the subject?

 

So no apology for sarcastically trying to ridicule me about how I knew about what CT value they run my PCR test, only for me to justify my claims and prove you wrong?

 

Just think yourself lucky that we wasn’t in a bar together when you shot your mouth off, otherwise I’d be carrying out a bit of attitude adjustment on you myself? C@ck!

[jacko45k]

12 hours ago, Trip Hop said:

Just think yourself lucky that we wasn’t in a bar together when you shot your mouth off, otherwise I’d be carrying out a bit of attitude adjustment on you myself? C@ck!

Down tiger, it is just a forum of bored Expats!

[bananafish]

20 hours ago, sandyf said:

There are always those that will go to great lengths to try and justify their self centred views.

They claim freedom of choice but they expect those that defend that freedom of choice to give up their freedom of choice.

Anyone with any moral integrity would have the vaccination in support of those that have no choice.

Tell me how me getting vaccinated supports those who have no choice? 

 

And please use facts based on data, not just what you believe to be the case.

 

If I was vaccinated, my chance of getting covid would increase by 400%, that would make me 400% more likely to spread covid to others. (see every single UK government vaccine surveillance report published in the last 18 months, also same data from every other country that publishes rates of covid by vaccination status). 

 

And the only thing I've gone to any lengths to do in this thread, is point out the facts to people like you who have formed their opinion in the absence of facts. 

 

And I'm not asking anyone to give up their freedom of choice, all I'm doing is expressing hope that people will start using logic, data, and facts to form the basis of their opinions. 

 

Using the data, those under 60 who are vaccinated are the selfish ones, because you have reduced your chances of dying by 40% (from 0.001% to 0.0007%). In exchange for increasing your chance of passing covid on to someone who is actually vulnerable by 400%. 

 

If you think I am wrong, please show me the data you are using to form that opinion. 

 

To see the data I'm using, see the UK government vaccine surveillance report I linked in my last post, and all the weekly reports they published prior to it going back around 18 months. 

[Scouse123]

On 4/17/2022 at 10:23 PM, it is what it is said:

 

you may mock, but basically that's what's happened in many other countries, who are just getting on with it as if covid never happened... thailand is just six months behind the curve

The problem with Thailand, and it deservedly gets mocked, is there are ' too many chiefs and not enough Indians '

 

Everybody wants to make statements but nobody wants to be consistent or make sense and they are all too frightened to make an informed choice for fear of getting the blame if it goes wrong.

 

Hence, everybody has decided to be indecisive!

[Kaoboi Bebobp]

On 4/17/2022 at 11:54 PM, spidermike007 said:

As is typical with policy here, there is no science behind the test and go system. Time to admit the problem is from within, and time to stop blaming foreigners for problems caused by all the deficient ministers, failed vax programs, border leaks, etc. 

 

Thailand is now humiliated by the anemic arrival numbers and the fact that most nations actually have adults making the decisions, who are not afraid of the dark. Will that make any difference? Was the tourism sabotage deliberate? 

 

 

A friend flew off to London mid-morning today and posted photos of empty hallways like this out at Gate E1-10. Said he'd never seen an airport so empty. Then a friend piped in it was as empty as this when he flew out for a job last week. 

 

So few are arriving and very few not wanting to leave as there's no confidence in what they will face on the return. I'm now thinking -- after Anutin doused the idea of the endemic status -- that we're not going to see any improvements on arrival requirements or rules on mandatory mask wearing for months. I've been delaying a trip for months for these reasons. 

Edited April 19, 2022 by Kaoboi Bebobp
Trims.

[ThailandRyan]

21 hours ago, Trip Hop said:

I never said they do but it’s a fact that different types of PCR Assay detect different strains more effectively. Just check a medical suppliers catalogue for yourself and you will see that I am correct? Genome sequencing is used for confirmation and detecting any possible mutations/new strains? Not that I am an expert but I did have a lot of money in Novacyt up until about 15 months ago, so did a fair amount of reading on the subject?

 

So no apology for sarcastically trying to ridicule me about how I knew about what CT value they run my PCR test, only for me to justify my claims and prove you wrong?

 

Just think yourself lucky that we wasn’t in a bar together when you shot your mouth off, otherwise I’d be carrying out a bit of attitude adjustment on you myself? C@ck!

You could try but you would be sorry you tried.  No name calling either.

[ThailandRyan]

9 hours ago, jacko45k said:

Down tiger, it is just a forum of bored Expats!

Never bored with my adoptive country, the boastful ones and I'm all right Jack's on the other hand need to step back instead of making fools of themselves.

[internationalism]

google translation from today's meeting of department of disease control. To be discussed at the end of week.

 

"They will discuss whether to suggest adjusting to testing with ATK or not testing for infection at all. The details of the action plan will be discussed at the OCC meeting for further decision-making, while adjusting the color areas will be proposed. However, the number of infections in the country is higher than those who enter the country. Therefore, the relaxation of immigration will not result in increasing the number of infections in the country."

https://www.naewna.com/local/648378

[spidermike007]

13 hours ago, Kaoboi Bebobp said:

A friend flew off to London mid-morning today and posted photos of empty hallways like this out at Gate E1-10. Said he'd never seen an airport so empty. Then a friend piped in it was as empty as this when he flew out for a job last week. 

 

So few are arriving and very few not wanting to leave as there's no confidence in what they will face on the return. I'm now thinking -- after Anutin doused the idea of the endemic status -- that we're not going to see any improvements on arrival requirements or rules on mandatory mask wearing for months. I've been delaying a trip for months for these reasons. 

I have left and returned  twice in the past 6 months. Test and go is annoying, but doable. They won't stop me from handling my affairs with their juveline stupidity and cowardice. 

 

And your friend is right. Swawpy is a near ghost town. The authorities rightly deserve that fate. 

 

 

Edited April 19, 2022 by spidermike007

[joecoolfrog]

23 hours ago, bananafish said:

Tell me how me getting vaccinated supports those who have no choice? 

 

And please use facts based on data, not just what you believe to be the case.

 

If I was vaccinated, my chance of getting covid would increase by 400%, that would make me 400% more likely to spread covid to others. (see every single UK government vaccine surveillance report published in the last 18 months, also same data from every other country that publishes rates of covid by vaccination status). 

 

And the only thing I've gone to any lengths to do in this thread, is point out the facts to people like you who have formed their opinion in the absence of facts. 

 

And I'm not asking anyone to give up their freedom of choice, all I'm doing is expressing hope that people will start using logic, data, and facts to form the basis of their opinions. 

 

Using the data, those under 60 who are vaccinated are the selfish ones, because you have reduced your chances of dying by 40% (from 0.001% to 0.0007%). In exchange for increasing your chance of passing covid on to someone who is actually vulnerable by 400%. 

 

If you think I am wrong, please show me the data you are using to form that opinion. 

 

To see the data I'm using, see the UK government vaccine surveillance report I linked in my last post, and all the weekly reports they published prior to it going back around 18 months. 

Your conclusions are deluded nonsense , being vaccinated does NOT increase ones chances of catching covid .

Your figures show that a majority of the infected population is vaccinated ,but that is expected given that they form a far bigger percentage of the total population.

Maths not your thing or just being deliberately misleading ? 

[sandyf]

On 4/19/2022 at 11:55 AM, bananafish said:

And I'm not asking anyone to give up their freedom of choice, all I'm doing is expressing hope that people will start using logic, data, and facts to form the basis of their opinions. 

Of course you are not asking, people like you just take the benefit for granted without a second thought.

Sorry your Majesty, we cannot defend the realm today as the troops couldn't be bothered to get vaccinated.

[Heng]

Knock on wood.   We should know the fate of Test and Go after tomorrow's CCSA meeting.  

[bananafish]

On 4/20/2022 at 11:41 AM, joecoolfrog said:

Your conclusions are deluded nonsense , being vaccinated does NOT increase ones chances of catching covid .

Your figures show that a majority of the infected population is vaccinated ,but that is expected given that they form a far bigger percentage of the total population.

Maths not your thing or just being deliberately misleading ? 

Here is a screenshot of the file from the UK government website. 

 

I have to assume you just made a mistake, there's no way you looked properly at this table and thought, "oh, it's because most of the population is vaccinated".

 

Do you not know the meaning of "per 100,000"? Simple logic not your thing? 

 

Go back to my original reply and look up the full file for yourself. 

Edited April 25, 2022 by bananafish
spelling

[bananafish]

On 4/20/2022 at 3:21 PM, sandyf said:

Of course you are not asking, people like you just take the benefit for granted without a second thought.

Sorry your Majesty, we cannot defend the realm today as the troops couldn't be bothered to get vaccinated.

Well. You got me. I made a post hoping for people to use logic and sense, and your reply shows you're either incapable of that, or deliberately interested in the opposite. 

[ThailandRyan]

The anti vaxxer rhetoric has appeared again.  Try and understand that being vaccinated keeps one from having serious effects from the virus, and lowers the potential for death, while those unvaccinated run the gambit from being hospitalized to dying in greater numbers than those vaccinated, but go ahead and continue your diatribe.....