56 minutes ago, KannikaP said:

So can you charge a car which has the rectifier gobbins built into the car from a DC station?

Need to know as I am thinking down the EV path.

And does a self charging hybrid run only on petrol?

 

It's worth noting that a Hybrid car is only more economical around town in start/stop driving.  On the highway at a constant speed, it will be fractionally worse and it's an overly complicated beast.

 

A "Self Charging Hybrid" is Toyota spin marketing for Hybrid and then only on petrol (or diesel from some brands).  

 

My personal opinion is that we have gone past the Hybrid stage, there is now very little an EV can't do.  Mercedes & BMW initially offered Hybrids, they now only offer Plug-In Hybrids (PHEV) with typically 50 miles battery range or full EV's.  They read the market correctly, the Japanese haven't and have been caught sleeping with their pants down at the risk of mixing my metaphors.

 

It's also worth bearing in mind that a Hybrid is about 130 times more likely to catch fire than an EV, IMHO it offers the word of both worlds with little or no battery-only drive capability.

6 hours ago, motdaeng said:

 

please correct me if i'm wrong, but if we're talking about ac charging, not many cars can charge at 22 kw ...

 

6 hours ago, KhunLA said:

Nah, talking DC slow charging cables, and more than enough when at a hotel, and not going anywhere.  Lots of malls & hotels have them already.

 

Ooops ... sit corrected, and correct answer below.   Had DC on the brain.  Cars will accept 22kW, as it's just the cable delivering, and charger is actually in the car.

 

Just most houses (1 phase) or the granny / emergency cables they give you, won't provice 22kW.

 

Here's a chart what the MG ZS will accept and in red is what we have at the house ...

 

 

As you can see,  DC fast charging cable is considered anything 50kW or up, but for our car, anything above 76kW is irrelevant, as it will only accept 76kW.    Actually more than fast enough for us.   Only takes 30-40 minutes to go from 30% to 95%, and we usually leave somewhere between 90-100%, depending if ready or someone waiting.  

 

The last 5% can take 15-20 minutes by itself, and not worth waiting for if we're done doing whatever.

 

3 hours ago, JBChiangRai said:

 

Single phase Wallboxes  can charge between 6 amps and 32 amps.  Sometimes they are fixed on their output, typically 32 amps which at 220v is about 7 Kw.

 

Three phase wallboxes have a top limit of 11 Kw (16 amps per phase) or 22Kw (32 amps per phase), again some are adjustable.

 

22 Kw capability is useful outside your home, particularly at places like shopping malls and restaurants because you can often fill your car to the top whilst you're parked for a couple of hours.

 

The charger itself is actually in your car, the wallbox is just a control and safety unit that negotiates the charging speed and safety with your car.

 

The fast DC chargers you see at service stations have all the electronics inside and cost around a million baht each for a high capacity one.

 

I think the Seal will only charge at 3.6Kw max on an 11Kw wallbox.  It appears to me the pins for 3 phase are missing on the car.

 

If you have an AVR (Automatic Voltage Regulator) or Solar, you can boost your charging speed by turning up the voltage to 240v.  The charging circuits on most cars are current controlled.  So typically 32 amps at anything between 190v and 240v.

13 minutes ago, JBChiangRai said:

 

It's worth noting that a Hybrid car is only more economical around town in start/stop driving.  On the highway at a constant speed, it will be fractionally worse and it's an overly complicated beast.

 

A "Self Charging Hybrid" is Toyota spin marketing for Hybrid and then only on petrol (or diesel from some brands).  

 

My personal opinion is that we have gone past the Hybrid stage, there is now very little an EV can't do.  Mercedes & BMW initially offered Hybrids, they now only offer Plug-In Hybrids (PHEV) with typically 50 miles battery range or full EV's.  They read the market correctly, the Japanese haven't and have been caught sleeping with their pants down at the risk of mixing my metaphors.

 

It's also worth bearing in mind that a Hybrid is about 130 times more likely to catch fire than an EV, IMHO it offers the word of both worlds with little or no battery only drive capability.

Agree, and myself, never saw the practicality for a hybrid.  A bit redundant & expensive all the way around.   Damn silly IMHO, unless racking up a lot of highway kms, and time is money.   In which case, just stick with an ICE,   Maybe get a NETA V for knocking around town, for wife or husband's needs.

7 hours ago, KhunLA said:

By then he would have saved 336k by not buying petrol (@ 14 kpL using 91), as what we'd save if driving 20k kms locally and using PEA/MEA to charge at home.  Along with 15 oil changes & 3 or 4 total tune ups.  Along with the extra 100k buy in cost for the Vigo.

You do not mention the cost of charging your EV. And the safety issue, Vigo vs Chinese EV.

57 minutes ago, JBChiangRai said:

I think the Seal will only charge at 3.6Kw max on an 11Kw wallbox.  It appears to me the pins for 3 phase are missing on the car.

 

that would be very disappointing, only 3.6 kw from the free 11 kw ABB wallbox.

can any other byd seal owners confirm this poor performance?

i've never heard of this issue before!

12 minutes ago, KannikaP said:

You do not mention the cost of charging your EV. And the safety issue, Vigo vs Chinese EV.

Actually I did, via savings ... 

Petrol ฿54k a year

Solar   -0-

PEA/MEA ... 'savings ฿42k a year'  = PEA/MEA cost ฿12k a year (54-42=12)

 

Safety issue ... imaginary.  Especially now, as LFP safer & last longer

Here's a chart for life span of battery, and many consider these numbers very conservative.  Some have quoted up to 10k cycles, but we'll stick with 2500, and go even more negative, just 50% of that, is knocking on 500k kms for our MG ZS.

 

Read the not so small fine print, the battery isn't DEAD, just @ 80% capacity.

 

Work the #s, and you'll be at the BEV dealer before you know it.   Aside from savings, actually irrelevant for most of us.  But the performance, you'll definitely appreciate that, and makes driving fun again.

 

1 minute ago, KhunLA said:

Actually I did, via savings ... 

Petrol ฿54k a year

Solar   -0-

PEA/MEA ... 'savings ฿42k a year'  = PEA/MEA cost ฿12k a year (54-42=12)

 

Safety issue ... imaginary.  Especially now, as LFP safer & last longer

Here's a chart for life span of battery, and many consider these numbers very conservative.  Some have quoted up to 10k cycles, but we'll stick with 2500, and go even more negative, just 50% of that, is knocking on 500k kms for our MG ZS

 

So how much does it cost, per kilometre, to run your EV please? My Vigo averages 12 km / litre at less than Bht 33 per litre = Bht 3 per km.

 

 

 

 

 

13 minutes ago, motdaeng said:

 

that would be very disappointing, only 3.6 kw from the free 11 kw ABB wallbox.

can any other byd seal owners confirm this poor performance?

i've never heard of this issue before!

I’m getting 6.8kW, but I assumed they gave me a single phase 7kW ABB wallbox

 

17 minutes ago, KannikaP said:

So how much does it cost, per kilometre, to run your EV please? My Vigo averages 12 km / litre at less than Bht 33 per litre = Bht 3 per km.

I did the #s for BEV vs ICE, using cars we owned/own.

MG ZS ICE got 14 kpl

MG ZS EV gets 360 kms local driving

using 46.3kWh.   We have solar, but when I do charge,

using PEA, it's ~฿4 kWh

 

I used ฿36 or ฿38 for petrol (91) price per L

360 kms ÷ 14 = 25.71 L X ฿38 = ฿977

360 kms - PEA = ฿185  (46.3 x 4)

Actually used ฿5 in previous calculations, as most folks probably pay more the ฿4.  But being the wall charger is the only thing on the grid, we rare use much electric, charging with solar mostly.

 

In 2 years, we used 854 kWh of PEA.

Approx 240 kWh is for the house ? (unexplained)

the rest 614 have probably gone to the EV.

15 minutes ago, KannikaP said:

So how much does it cost, per kilometre, to run your EV please? My Vigo averages 12 km / litre at less than Bht 33 per litre = Bht 3 per km.

I have solar, and when I have excess I dump it in the car.

 

 

1 minute ago, Bandersnatch said:

I have solar, and when I have excess I dump it in the car.

 

 

Let's do it for someone without solar, charging from PEA at about Bht 4 per kWh unit.

7 minutes ago, KannikaP said:

Let's do it for someone without solar, charging from PEA at about Bht 4 per kWh unit.

It cost us ~฿0.5 per kms when charging using PEA.

360 kms @ ฿185.2 (46.3 kwh X ฿4)

 

@KannikaP  This is my usual morning (long) cruise in the EV.  Dog and myself to the park, (short), and if cruising by surf also, the long cruise.

 

11.7 is the amount of kwh to go 100 kms, as calculated, used be the car.

46.3 usable battery ÷ 11.7 = 3.957 X 100 = 395+kms per charge

So when I state 360 kms, that's mix local driving.  If short cruise, then average 60 kph, as most of the drive is 4 lane road.

 

If long, then short accounts for 8 kms, and the other half is probably 25-40 kph.

We consistently exceed the WLTP range rating of 320 kms per charge.  We'll get 320 kms at highway speeds / 90kph.

 

 

I save too much sh!t ... here's one even better, and even beats the 

NEDC rating of 403 kms per charge ...

 

57 minutes ago, KannikaP said:

So how much does it cost, per kilometre, to run your EV please? My Vigo averages 12 km / litre at less than Bht 33 per litre = Bht 3 per km.

 

Fuel cost comparison per kilometer between my Toyota Fortuner 3.0L Diesel and my BYD Atto BEV.  

1 hour ago, motdaeng said:

 

that would be very disappointing, only 3.6 kw from the free 11 kw ABB wallbox.

can any other byd seal owners confirm this poor performance?

i've never heard of this issue before!

 

55 minutes ago, Bandersnatch said:

I’m getting 6.8kW, but I assumed they gave me a single phase 7kW ABB wallbox

 

 

My ABB Wallbox is 3 phase 22kw.  I only have a single phase connection so my maximum charge rate is 7kw on 220v.  The box has the other 2 connections needed for 3 phase but I didn't put any cables in them.

 

I think all the ABB walboxes are 3 phase 22Kw units.

1 hour ago, KannikaP said:

Let's do it for someone without solar, charging from PEA at about Bht 4 per kWh unit.

 

My BYD Seal Performance AWD has an indicated range when full of 580km on an 82.5kW (net) battery = 7km/kWh 

 

Many without solar charge with cheap overnight electric

 

 

฿2.6369 per kWh 

 

฿2.6369 @ 7km per kWh = 

 

฿0.37 per km

19 minutes ago, Bandersnatch said:

 

My BYD Seal Performance AWD has an indicated range when full of 580km on an 82.5kW (net) battery = 7km/kWh 

 

Many without solar charge with cheap overnight electric

 

 

฿2.6369 per kWh 

 

฿2.6369 @ 7km per kWh = 

 

฿0.37 per km

My son in Dubai runs a 5l Nissan Stupid. Costs him Bht 16.77 per km to run!

15 minutes ago, Bandersnatch said:

 

My BYD Seal Performance AWD has an indicated range when full of 580km on an 82.5kW (net) battery = 7km/kWh 

 

Many without solar charge with cheap overnight electric

 

 

฿2.6369 per kWh 

 

฿2.6369 @ 7km per kWh = 

 

฿0.37 per km

 

But what is not considered in above calculations is "charging losses/efficiencey"....that is, 82.5KWH of energy flowing from your charger does not result in 82.5KWH of energy making it into the battery.   Like my BYD Atto has a charing efficiency of 91.5%....I expect the the Seal on board charger/battery have about the same 91.5%.  

 

The 580Km NEDC rating is not real world unless you are driving around in a temperature of approx 20C year round, not using the car's air conditioner, and driving like a little ol' lady at 50KM/H.   I expect your real world mileage per full tank of electrons is under 500Km.

 

Also, the 2.6369 per KWH is off peak Time of Use (TOU) basic rate and does not include the Fuel Traiff (Ft), 7% tax, and meter fee.   Addtionally, I expect a lot...probably most folks....do not have TOU service and just use a non-TOU service at regular rates....just part of their total household electricity bill.  When considering the total cost per KWH (i.e., basic rate, Ft, tax, fees, etc) as an incremental additional to their total household cost per KWH, the cost is going to be more like Bt5/KWH.

 

 

5 minutes ago, Pib said:

 

But what is not considered in above calculations is "charging losses/efficiencey"....that is, 82.5KWH of energy flowing from your charger does not result in 82.5KWH of energy making it into the battery.   Like my BYD Atto has a charing efficiency of 91.5%....I expect the the Seal on board charger/battery have about the same 91.5%.  

 

The 580Km NEDC rating is not real world unless you are driving around in a temperature of approx 20C year round, not using the car's air conditioner, and driving like a little ol' lady at 50KM/H.   I expect your real world mileage per full tank of electrons is under 500Km.

 

Also, the 2.6369 per KWH is off peak Time of Use (TOU) basic rate and does not include the Fuel Traiff (Ft), 7% tax, and meter fee.   Addtionally, I expect a lot...probably most folks....do not have TOU service and just use a non-TOU service at regular rates....just part of their total household electricity bill.  When considering the total cost per KWH (i.e., basic rate, Ft, tax, fees, etc) as an incremental additional to their total household cost per KWH, the cost is going to be more like Bt5/KWH.

 

 

 

You are absolutely right @Pib 

 

I simplified the calculations to make it easier for a non EV driver to follow

Just now, Bandersnatch said:

 

You are absolutely right @Pib 

 

I simplified the calculations to make it easier for a non EV driver to follow

Sounds like a plan.  Thanks for the clarification.

10 hours ago, KannikaP said:

Yes, you are correct. BYD next week.

Youi should ask about Plastic battery covers and rats and insurance costs

there is someone here that as an atto3 extended has had 2 insurance claims and insurance has quoted them B42K at  2nd year renewal

https://www.facebook.com/groups/bydthailand/permalink/853386810101435

bought the Byd Dolphin on June 6th and got an appointment to spray the coating and install the battery guard under the car on July 26th. It turned out that the technician found rat bite marks under the car, as shown in the 3 spots in the picture.

https://www.facebook.com/groups/bydthailand/permalink/853815483391901/

owner was advised that battery cover and battery requires replacing and was advised to claim under their car insurance at a cost of 336,905 baht

Insurance company is trying to reduce cost by only replacing battery cover

On 8/5/2024 at 9:16 PM, Pib said:

DLT registration stats are out for July.  1st snapshot below is the DLT summary line for the R.Y.1 category (ie.., passenger vehicles carrying no more that 7 people).  At total of 40,817 vehicles were registered of which 5,468 were BEV (100% electric) which equates to 13.4% of the total.  

 

For a comparison to the previous month (i.e., Jun) a total of 43,147 R.Y.1 category vehicles registered with 5,657 of them being BEV which equates to 13.1%.   

 

June to July showed a further slump in regristrations probably due to a challenging economy, tighter loan requirements, people gunshy to buy with the ongoing price-cutting, etc.  

 

For July

 

For the previous month (June)

 

 

 

 

 

Above was a cut & paste from the DLT registration stats for July  and June for the R.Y.1 caegory.

 

Below is a cut and paste from below car250 website providing its version of June and July registration BEV stats but it does not say if it's for the R.Y.1 category only or they have included some numbers from some other categoaries also.  The car250.com snapshot shows registration numbers that are a little higher than the DLT R.Y.1 stats so I must assume the car250.com charts include another category or two other than just category R.Y.1.

 

https://www.car250.com/ev-th-07-2567-1.html

1st chart is for June....2nd chart is for July.

 

14 hours ago, Pib said:

 

 

Above was a cut & paste from the DLT registration stats for July  and June for the R.Y.1 caegory.

 

Below is a cut and paste from below car250 website providing its version of June and July registration BEV stats but it does not say if it's for the R.Y.1 category only or they have included some numbers from some other categoaries also.  The car250.com snapshot shows registration numbers that are a little higher than the DLT R.Y.1 stats so I must assume the car250.com charts include another category or two other than just category R.Y.1.

 

https://www.car250.com/ev-th-07-2567-1.html

1st chart is for June....2nd chart is for July.

 

In lieu of the missing autolife numbers, lets use the above car250 numbers for the monthly chart.

Give me 5 minutes to knock some nonsense together.

I just made it out of the septic tank and rolled the Bimmer back to Bangkok. 

I had the pleasure to meet SeñorLA on a PTT station. Very pleasant fellow 😊. 

 

2 minutes ago, ExpatOilWorker said:

In lieu of the missing autolife numbers, lets use the above car250 numbers for the monthly chart.

Give me 5 minutes to knock some nonsense together.

I just made it out of the septic tank and rolled the Bimmer back to Bangkok. 

I had the pleasure to meet SeñorLA on a PTT station. Very pleasant fellow 😊. 

 

 

I'm glad to hear you're out and about and that suppository tube of anti-gloating cream didn't keep you off your feet too long.

August 1st, 2024 EV summary Thailand 🇹🇭. 

Total EV registrations: 131,931

Total EV miles driven: 757.9 million miles

 

July Highlights:

- BYD inaugurated their first factory outside China in Rayong on July 4th.

- Honda will cease vehicle production in their Ayutthaya plant after operation there for 28 years 👋. 

- Seal 🦭 goes into deep sleep 😴 for unknown reasons. Press the door lock 5 times and say the magic 🎩 word and the princess wake up again. Alternatively turn the steering wheel all the way to the left, then to the right and see what happens 🎩 🪄 🔮.  

- MG will offer vehicle lifetime warranty on the battery and drive train for 4 models. California Fitness also once offered a lifetime membership 😉. The terms and conditions of the warranty is less clear.

- Smart phones are not smart enough to connect to the EV charger. The eternal battle with technology rages on for EV owners.

- Home assistant is playing the Home demon 😈 and attack Growatt locking the account for 24 hours. The joy of independent solar technology 😴 🪴. 

- Sparks are flying as BYD delay 30k baht charging credit to EV owners, so they don't have to use their free and excess solar power 😜.

- BYD's 1 years/20,000 km service is due after 2 years according to time traveling user. Atto 3 smells like a chemical lab according to another user.

- BYD (Boycott Your Device) does not work with all types of smart phones 😜.

- Washing the hydrophobic Seal is a form of art 🎨 not all master and liberal rainbow 🌈 members employ an anal metallic-phobic Chinaman for this delicate task.

- The EV price war rages on. MG throws some heavy 250k punches 👊 by dumping 2022 models in 2024.

- Rats 🐀 still love BYD, so back to the service center to install a rat 🐀 cover.

- EV owners have discovered a new branch of science where they monitor their lead-acid battery voltage down to 1/10 of a voltage. Soon we will see them name individual electrons, based on spin and superposition 🤓. 

 

Thai EV fire 🔥 risk: 9.2 fire/billion miles

Tesla global: 5 fire/billion miles

ICE (USA): 55 fire/billion miles

 

1. Tesla 3 - September 20th, 2021, power pole collision Rama 2, Bangkok.

 

2. BYD Atto 3 - January 21st, 2023, house fire, Songkran. Traction battery did not burn.

 

3. BYD Seal - March 14th, 2024, Ratchaburi roll-over.

 

4. Porsche Taycan - May 24th, 2024, battery explosion, Paradise Car Showroom, Bangkok.

 

5. Neta-V - June 11th, 2024, median accident and fire, Saraburi.

 

6. Neta-V - June 12th, 2024, accident and fire at towing area, Tha Phra, Khon Kaen.

 

7. MG ES - June 22nd, 2024, hit axle part on the road, Chonburi motorway.

 

27 minutes ago, ExpatOilWorker said:

August 1st, 2024 EV summary Thailand 🇹🇭. 

Total EV registrations: 131,931

Total EV miles driven: 757.9 million miles

 

July Highlights:

- BYD inaugurated their first factory outside China in Rayong on July 4th.

- Honda will cease vehicle production in their Ayutthaya plant after operation there for 28 years 👋. 

- Seal 🦭 goes into deep sleep 😴 for unknown reasons. Press the door lock 5 times and say the magic 🎩 word and the princess wake up again. Alternatively turn the steering wheel all the way to the left, then to the right and see what happens 🎩 🪄 🔮.  

- MG will offer vehicle lifetime warranty on the battery and drive train for 4 models. California Fitness also once offered a lifetime membership 😉. The terms and conditions of the warranty is less clear.

- Smart phones are not smart enough to connect to the EV charger. The eternal battle with technology rages on for EV owners.

- Home assistant is playing the Home demon 😈 and attack Growatt locking the account for 24 hours. The joy of independent solar technology 😴 🪴. 

- Sparks are flying as BYD delay 30k baht charging credit to EV owners, so they don't have to use their free and excess solar power 😜.

- BYD's 1 years/20,000 km service is due after 2 years according to time traveling user. Atto 3 smells like a chemical lab according to another user.

- BYD (Boycott Your Device) does not work with all types of smart phones 😜.

- Washing the hydrophobic Seal is a form of art 🎨 not all master and liberal rainbow 🌈 members employ an anal metallic-phobic Chinaman for this delicate task.

- The EV price war rages on. MG throws some heavy 250k punches 👊 by dumping 2022 models in 2024.

- Rats 🐀 still love BYD, so back to the service center to install a rat 🐀 cover.

- EV owners have discovered a new branch of science where they monitor their lead-acid battery voltage down to 1/10 of a voltage. Soon we will see them name individual electrons, based on spin and superposition 🤓. 

 

Thai EV fire 🔥 risk: 9.2 fire/billion miles

Tesla global: 5 fire/billion miles

ICE (USA): 55 fire/billion miles

 

1. Tesla 3 - September 20th, 2021, power pole collision Rama 2, Bangkok.

 

2. BYD Atto 3 - January 21st, 2023, house fire, Songkran. Traction battery did not burn.

 

3. BYD Seal - March 14th, 2024, Ratchaburi roll-over.

 

4. Porsche Taycan - May 24th, 2024, battery explosion, Paradise Car Showroom, Bangkok.

 

5. Neta-V - June 11th, 2024, median accident and fire, Saraburi.

 

6. Neta-V - June 12th, 2024, accident and fire at towing area, Tha Phra, Khon Kaen.

 

7. MG ES - June 22nd, 2024, hit axle part on the road, Chonburi motorway.

 

You have 13.4% EV sales for June and July, I think it was Pib’s figures show an increase.

 

Which is right?

55 minutes ago, ExpatOilWorker said:

In lieu of the missing autolife numbers, lets use the above car250 numbers for the monthly chart.

Give me 5 minutes to knock some nonsense together.

I just made it out of the septic tank and rolled the Bimmer back to Bangkok. 

I had the pleasure to meet SeñorLA on a PTT station. Very pleasant fellow 😊. 

 

That's my tourist look ... and next time, you're buying the beers 😎

2 hours ago, JBChiangRai said:

You have 13.4% EV sales for June and July, I think it was Pib’s figures show an increase.

 

Which is right?

Both are right and just so you can sleep 😴 tonight, we did have a EV fraction increase, although very marginal. The goats 🐐 can start gloating while the rest of us stay safe under the bridge. 

June 5,773/43,147 = 13.37984101%

July 5,473/40,817 = 13.40862876%

Assembled in Thailand BYD Sealion 6 DM-i (Plug-in Hybrid) : Launches in Thailand at ฿939,900 

 

 

When comparing Sealion 6 DM-i with C-Segment SUVs in the same group and nearby

• BYD Sealion 6 : 4,775 x 1,890 x 1,670 mm. | Wheelbase 2,765 mm.
• Honda CR-V : 4,694 x 1,864 x 1,692 mm. | Wheelbase 2,700 mm.
• Haval H6 : 4,653 x 1,886 x 1,724 mm. | Wheelbase 2,738 mm.

 

DM-i Super Plug-in Hybrid

1.5-liter gasoline engine with 98 horsepower, 122 Newton meters, working together with a single electric motor with 197 horsepower, 300 Newton meters.

When the engine works together with the electric motor, the maximum power is 218 horsepower, 300 Newton meters, driving the front wheels, Blade Battery size 18.3 kWh.

Acceleration 0-100 km/h within 8.5 seconds

Electric-only running distance: 95 km. (NEDC)

AC alternating current supports 6.6 kW

DC current supports 18 kW

Power supply system for external devices V2L – Vehicle to Load