HMPO

[OJAS]

Yesterday's debate in the House of Commons about this "august" body might be worth a listen (please note that it lasts an hour, though). Sounds like the whole UK passport renewal process is just as much of a bloody shambles back in the UK as it is here in Thailand at the present time!

 

[CharlieH]

So in short, full of promises, high numbers due to relaxed restrictions worldwide and people moving again after 2 year delay.

Get any applications in as soon as possible, they claim 90% are done within 10 weeks.

 

More staff being recruited, dealt with 1 million  application last month alone.

In true Government fashion claiming to be addressing it as best they can, advice is to apply as early as possible.

 

(No, I didnt listen to the whole hour)

 

 

[blackshadow]

3 minutes ago, CharlieH said:

So in short, full of promises, high numbers due to relaxed restrictions worldwide and people moving again after 2 year delay.

Get any applications in as soon as possible, they claim 90% are done within 10 weeks.

 

More staff being recruited, dealt with 1 million  application last month alone.

In true Government fashion claiming to be addressing it as best they can, advice is apply as early as possible.

 

(No, I didnt listen to the whole hour)

 

 

I WILL not sit and watch / listen to something so long on my computer!!!!

[stratocaster]

According to Sky news.

5 million Brits have let their passport expire due to Covid travel restrictions.

One million passport applications have been received in the last 10 days.

Government has threatened to privatize HMPO so expect industrial action.

The EU are changing UK passport requirements for entering EU to 3 months remaining on passport.

 

[thonglorjimmy]

58 minutes ago, stratocaster said:

The EU are changing UK passport requirements for entering EU to 3 months remaining on passport.

Not quite true, the EU have always had this rule for travellers from outside of the EU, or at least have done so for many years for third country travellers.

 

It's the UK that chose to be subject to this rule when they voted for Brexit, it's quite amusing how many "brexiteers" are now calling foul as they "weren't told this would happen".

[Eff1n2ret]

I wonder if there are any sections of the Home Office that are actually fit for purpose. However, the notion that the Passport Office could be privatised is ludicrous. There are aspects of national security inherent in issuing passports, and to hand that over to any outside body is asking for trouble. It's bad enough that they gave the contract for producing our passports to a French company, and they are, I believe, printed in Poland

[Kwasaki]

Thai immigration kept giving me 30 days while my UK passport application was held up in the covid pandemic.

HMPO was shut for a good while.

[CharlieH]

28 minutes ago, Eff1n2ret said:

I wonder if there are any sections of the Home Office that are actually fit for purpose. However, the notion that the Passport Office could be privatised is ludicrous. There are aspects of national security inherent in issuing passports, and to hand that over to any outside body is asking for trouble. It's bad enough that they gave the contract for producing our passports to a French company, and they are, I believe, printed in Poland

During the answers the Minister stated that the Passport service is already 90% Privatised. Also the company concerned have been addressed over their performance.

[OJAS]

3 hours ago, CharlieH said:

During the answers the Minister stated that the Passport service is already 90% Privatised. Also the company concerned have been addressed over their performance.

In fairness to HMPO, though (says he grudgingly), the incidences of poor performance referred to during the debate relate to those incompetent clowns who are responsible for operating the Passport Adviceline available to Joe Public (+44 300 222 0000 as dialled from Thailand) and even the dedicated number which is apparently only available to MP's wishing to raise particular concerns with HMPO about applications submitted by their constituents!

 

Just how many of us out here in LOS who, on top of all the other rigours imposed on us by the dreaded With-It Tower Passport Renewal Experience, have had reason to call this Adviceline, I wonder, only to be put on hold for an eternity and "serenaded" with irritating muzak - and at considerable expense in our case to boot?

 

What also fascinated me as the debate went along was the number of times the Minister said in response to specific cases raised by MP's that he would raise these individually with HMPO on their behalf. Looks to me like he had been briefed by HMPO to reply along these lines, in the mistaken belief on their part that these would only amount to a handful, presumably!

 

And what also soon became apparent was that there were particular difficulties in the case of paper-based applications - which is of particular relevance in our case, of course, since HMPO have forbidden us to use their online system instead for some ridiculous reason. And those of us who might be minded to apply for a British passport for our dual-national offpsring for the first time had better be aware that HMPO seem to have a penchant for losing key supporting documents - which, in some cases, can only be replaced with extreme difficulty (if at all)!

[OJAS]

3 hours ago, Eff1n2ret said:

It's bad enough that they gave the contract for producing our passports to a French company, and they are, I believe, printed in Poland

Plus another contract to those incompetent clowns who are responsible for manning the Passport Adviceline!

 

[Eff1n2ret]

2 hours ago, OJAS said:

HMPO have forbidden us to use their online system instead for some ridiculous reason.

If you go to the HMPO web page for overseas applicants and enter your country of residence as Philppines, South Africa or Brazil, to name three at random, up comes the preamble for uploading a digital photo - in other words, in any of those countries you can apply online, and presumably you submit your expiring passport and receive the new one by post or carrier, as they do in the UK. The only reason I can think of why we can't do the same is the legal requirement for foreigners in Thailand to have their passports with them at all times. We all know that this is never enforced in any meaningful way, but the jobsworths who control our fate still think it's ok to oblige us to make not one but two visits to VFS, while saying it's ok to hand over your passport to an agent for an indefinite period, which makes a nonsense of the legal requirement.

When we apply, our expiring passport is never inspected by HMPO, we have to supply colour photocopies of all the pages, which (in my experience) are not examined by the VFS clerk, only counted to see if it's the right number. Why can't we apply online and upload those copies as well? Then if VFS notifies when the new passport is available, we send the expiring document for defacement and they EMS both documents back, we never need go near your much-loved Trendy.

[OJAS]

On 4/28/2022 at 5:22 PM, Eff1n2ret said:

The only reason I can think of why we can't do the same is the legal requirement for foreigners in Thailand to have their passports with them at all times.

I gather that there is a similar theoretical legal requirement for foreigners in France to have their passports on them at all times. But, when you go through the step-by-step process on the GOV.UK website, you will find that, not only passport renewals from France are possible online, but this is the only way in which UK passports can be routinely renewed from that particular country, it would appear!

[Denim]

On 4/28/2022 at 9:06 AM, blackshadow said:

I WILL not sit and watch / listen to something so long on my computer!!!!

At the bottom righthand corner of the video there are three little dots. Click on this and you can adjust the playback speed to double normal cutting listening time to 30 minutes. ????

[brewsterbudgen]

Another Brexit bonus ???? 

[OJAS]

1 hour ago, brewsterbudgen said:

Another Brexit bonus ???? 

The dreaded With-It Tower Passport Renewal Experience was inflicted on us by those masters of bungling incompetence known as HMPO years before Brexit was even a twinkle in the eye! ????

 

[VocalNeal]

On 4/28/2022 at 9:10 AM, stratocaster said:

5 million Brits have let their passport expire due to Covid travel restrictions.

Silly them!????

[Tofer]

I applied digitally for my wife and son, with the promise of a 4 week turnaround, and got an acknowledgement of documents received 15 & 17/03/22, for a straight forward renewal of pre-existing British passports. HMPO's acknowledgement is sent out as an email message, and there is a tracking facility showing the application history, with the dates recorded of the documents received, but I was still constantly receiving automated messages requesting we send the documents, noting that if already sent to ignore that message.

 

Since no new information was requested, I did just that, ignored their automated / repetitive messages. I then receive a message stating if they do not receive the documents for my wife & son before a date 5 days hence, they will withdraw the application, and you lose your advance payment. Despite my online messages, acknowledged received instantly, confirming that they have logged their receipt of documents on the tracking facility, they still went ahead and withdrew the applications, presumably as an excuse so they would not be seen to have failed to achieve their target turnaround date. Pathetic, how hard can it be to issue a straight forward renewal of a pre-existing passport.

 

Replies to communication on HMPO's online messaging facility, are usually a 'tick box' response of a selected extract from the generic rules, and do not answer your specific application query, presumably again to keep to their 72 hour promised response time.

 

A renewal application for myself is being questioned as a second passport, but I have had this facility since 1980, including repeated renewals without question. I spent 2 hours on a phone call before being disconnected after finally getting through to, and being placed on hold by, the person I needed to speak to. I've sent them all the information they requested, explanation letter for reasons requiring a second passport and a colour copy of my current passport.

 

I sent them an email and electronic message offering practical solutions to their desire to terminate my second passport facility, which has been replied to as a simple acknowledgement, and noting an examiner will have to consider the options, but they threw in an indeterminate comment of "send a covering letter". Very odd, since they have already acknowledged my email and it's message in their same message. I suspect this is yet another potential opportunity for them to withdraw the application for none receipt of documents.

 

It would appear they are spending the majority of their time covering their backsides, to ensure they meet their performance targets, without actually producing the goods. Obviously the Covid solution of working from home is not working!

 

I've now reached the point where I consider it probably necessary to start making formal complaints, in the hope some senior manager will force a solution.

[Tofer]

On 4/28/2022 at 2:14 PM, OJAS said:

Just how many of us out here in LOS who, on top of all the other rigours imposed on us by the dreaded With-It Tower Passport Renewal Experience, have had reason to call this Adviceline, I wonder, only to be put on hold for an eternity and "serenaded" with irritating muzak - and at considerable expense in our case to boot?

Thank goodness my 2 hour phone call was paid for by the British Embassy. It was a suggestion from a consular customer services lady, who offered to connect me via their phone system, so I only paid for local charges from Thailand, very helpful.

[Tofer]

On 4/28/2022 at 2:14 PM, OJAS said:

since HMPO have forbidden us to use their online system instead for some ridiculous reason.

When I checked the procedure for applying through the Brit Embassy in Bangkok, I was advised it would take up to 11 weeks.

I was not aware the BE in Bangkok no longer issued passports, and I was somewhat caught out by the fact my passport expires 2 months before the next marriage visa extn. date.

Left with little choice, I made digital applications via a UK family address, for a promised 4 week turnaround, sent the passports by courier, and my Sister posted them onto HMPO. Then the fun began, as noted above.

[Tofer]

On 4/28/2022 at 5:22 PM, Eff1n2ret said:

Why can't we apply online and upload those copies as well?

That would be too easy and practical..... 

 

I've had my email messages acknowledged by return email, in which they then ask for a "covering letter" to the email, absolutely ludicrous! I would almost give my right arm to have a face to face with those people, to find out if there's a brain between them.

[brewsterbudgen]

Is there any evidence that UK passport renewals processed via HMPO/VFS in Bangkok or Chiang Mai are actually taking as long as 11 weeks?  In my experience this is just a "worst case" scenario and most take around 4-6 weeks.

[OJAS]

On 5/4/2022 at 8:12 PM, Tofer said:

I would almost give my right arm to have a face to face with those people, to find out if there's a brain between them.

If that were ever to come to pass I would strongly advise you to take an extremely powerful magnifying glass with you - you'd definitely need it for brain detection purposes!????

[Tofer]

4 hours ago, OJAS said:

If that were ever to come to pass I would strongly advise you to take an extremely powerful magnifying glass with you - you'd definitely need it for brain detection purposes!????

It's a symptom of the bureaucrats / civil servants power trip...

[onebaht]

what could you do if passport didn't come back in time?

 

would it be possible to get emergency passport to go to cambodia and back to thailand again?

 

if statying it cambodia for a month + 30 days on reentry to thailand, that would be an extra 2 months to give passport office.

 

is that opossible on emergency travel document? i think i read somewhere in past, they can add 5 countries to it.

[OJAS]

On 5/7/2022 at 7:38 PM, onebaht said:

what could you do if passport didn't come back in time?

 

would it be possible to get emergency passport to go to cambodia and back to thailand again?

 

if statying it cambodia for a month + 30 days on reentry to thailand, that would be an extra 2 months to give passport office.

 

is that opossible on emergency travel document? i think i read somewhere in past, they can add 5 countries to it.

Sounds like you can if the following statement on the GOV.UK website is to be believed:-

 

You can use an emergency travel document to travel to your destination through a maximum of 5 countries. You can also normally use it to return to the country you’re applying from if you live there.

 

https://www.gov.uk/emergency-travel-document

 

Might nevertheless be worthwhile double-checking this with the Embassy who are responsible for issuing ETD's.

 

[OJAS]

On 5/1/2022 at 9:26 PM, VocalNeal said:

Silly them!????

Why blame the 5 million Brits who have let their passports expire due to Covid travel restrictions for the current shambles? For all that they might have known at the time when their previous passports expired, replacement passports which they obtained there and then could have turned out to be completely useless in practice for a significant chunk of their validity periods! The present fiasco is IMHO entirely down to HMPO's bungling incompetence and ineptitude - and, in particular, their abject failure to have sufficiently robust plans in place in order to cope with a rush of new passport applications once travel restrictions had been eased.

[OJAS]

The BBC's latest take on the passport crisis:-

 

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-scotland-61397814

 

HMPO's bungling incompetence really knows no bounds, I think, with some awaiting new passports having to resort to beating down the doors of their offices in sheer desperation, it would appear!

 

[PJ71]

On 5/5/2022 at 4:42 PM, brewsterbudgen said:

Is there any evidence that UK passport renewals processed via HMPO/VFS in Bangkok or Chiang Mai are actually taking as long as 11 weeks?  In my experience this is just a "worst case" scenario and most take around 4-6 weeks.

Friend did his at the turn of the year 8-9 weeks.

[PJ71]

On 5/7/2022 at 7:38 PM, onebaht said:

would it be possible to get emergency passport to go to cambodia and back to thailand again?

I think emergencys passports ( travel docs ) are for getting from a foreign country to your country of citizenship / residence, they're not for travelling about on.

 

Are they not just for one time use?

[OJAS]

No immediate end in sight to this bloody shambles, it would appear....

 

https://www.bbc.com/news/explainers-62378144