Ducted split system AC

[LivinLOS]

Been working with a non Thai architect for a while. Hes been superb in quality of work but as he isnt in this building environment theres been a few wrinkles in local building techniques and costs, as well as needing to be guided to deal with roof overhangs, shade and rainfall / drainage expectations. 

A change in the roof structure has resulted in needing to change the planned in ceiling cassette air system to ducted splits (not in any way considering central air) overa large open plan social area we are now finishing up and working on hiding the split systems, access panels and accommodating ducts. 

Before we lock all this in I want to have some discussions with AC engineers who supply these systems. I already know Daikin have a whole range of ducted splits but who else supplies them here ?? 

[OneMoreFarang]

Maybe have a look at this site. It seems they sell/install many brands.

I have no personal experience with them.

 

https://www.modernair.co.th/en/

 

[LivinLOS]

Thanks.. tho they appear bangkok only (I am chiang mai) 

[Yellowtail]

You might had a look at Carrier:

 

Carrier Products : Split Type

[Yellowtail]

How do you define ductless split? Multiple evaporators with an equal number of condensers? 

 

 

[unheard]

Or Mitsubishi:

https://th.mitsubishielectric.com/en/products-solutions/air-conditioning/index.html

[LivinLOS]

On 5/1/2022 at 8:42 AM, Yellowtail said:

How do you define ductless split? Multiple evaporators with an equal number of condensers? 

 

 

Ducted split.. 
 

A split system (not central air) with the unit outputs ducted to vents in a single room or space. 

[Yellowtail]

4 hours ago, LivinLOS said:

Ducted split.. 
 

A split system (not central air) with the unit outputs ducted to vents in a single room or space. 

Yes, you said that, but how is that different from central air?

 

I think you may be confusing packaged central air with all central air. Central air can be split or packaged. Packaged just means the condenser and evaporator are all in the same cabinet. Spit just means the evaporator is separate from the condenser. 

 

`

[LivinLOS]

4 minutes ago, Yellowtail said:

Yes, you said that, but how is that different from central air?

 

I think you may be confusing packaged central air with all central air. Central air can be split or packaged. Packaged just means the condenser and evaporator are all in the same cabinet. Spit just means the evaporator is separate from the condenser. 

 

`

I consider central air like USA central air.. One central AC / Heat pump for the whole house, with ducting around the house.. Then vents and air movement to control the temp changing in each location.. As you say can be combo or split for the cooling units but from a single source for the home.. Basically not done here, and a whole bunch of reasons not to try.. 

Then of course theres split system..  Evaporator with a remote condenser and one output direct into the room usually visible (ductless) and mounted in sight.. Technically 'ductless mini splits'. More efficient, per room temp control and thermostats, but visible outputs (wall mount, ceiling mount, or cassette in ceiling). 99% of residential installs I assume ??

Then theres ducted splits.. AKA ducted mini splits ?? You have one (usually I guess you can run multiple with one thermostat for super large spaces) evaporator per room space your controlling, but the evaporator is hidden in a void or accessible ceiling space and ducts are then feeding multiple output vents in one rooms space only. It has the efficiency, per room control, etc of ductless splits, and the hidden design element of central air. They have a condensate pump like a cassette solution and can be placed in the next room, through walls in drop ceilings etc in ways that a ductless split can not. 

I am not sure of my terminology ?? Ducted splits, Ducted mini splits, concealed duct splits, etc.. These are not central air, its per room with splits but those splits are not ductless and exposed. 

 

 

[OneMoreFarang]

1 hour ago, LivinLOS said:

I am not sure of my terminology ?? Ducted splits, Ducted mini splits, concealed duct splits, etc..

One problem seems to be that different people use the same terms with different meaning.

And internationally this is worse. Even for professionals what is commonly described as split in one country has another name in another country. 

[LivinLOS]

11 hours ago, OneMoreFarang said:

One problem seems to be that different people use the same terms with different meaning.

And internationally this is worse. Even for professionals what is commonly described as split in one country has another name in another country. 

Yes this is part of my issue here.. I am no expert and have been taking advice from others (and some of that advice is from outside Thailand where skills and systems are likely very different) and doing online research.. 

I think the post 2 above clearly describes the desire now though. 

I intend to use a per room concealed split that is ducted out (short distances a few meters) to vents in the single (large) space. 
In 2 other rooms I wish to use a concealed split to a single duct point from a drop ceiling and through a wall. 

Initially I had a simpler plan with in ceiling cassette systems but the roof structure design changed to save weight and achieve a 12m span and this had a knock on effect of needing to rethink how the AC was implemented. 

As this isnt a conventional residential install I would like to discuss this for practicality and cost with decent AC engineers before locking designs in and construction drawings. The average somchai filter cleaner is unlikely have the experience of what I seek. Being outside of bangkok makes that harder (happy to fly down to meet the right people). 

Daikin Pro shop seems a good start that came up yesterday. 

[OneMoreFarang]

1 hour ago, LivinLOS said:

duct

I think you should specify what you mean with duct.

I think some people think the duct is something where the cool are flows through to different areas and rooms.

The other use of duct seems to be the pipe of the coolant from the compressor to the condenser. 

I think you mean the pipes but you call them ducts.

It's difficult... 

[phetphet]

Mine are York units.

Bear in mind access will be needed to evaporator units /fans for maintenance. Mine are in the ceiling and not easy to work on. Even with an access panel.

[LivinLOS]

3 hours ago, OneMoreFarang said:

I think you should specify what you mean with duct.

I think some people think the duct is something where the cool are flows through to different areas and rooms.

The other use of duct seems to be the pipe of the coolant from the compressor to the condenser. 

I think you mean the pipes but you call them ducts.

It's difficult... 

I dont mean the coolant piping.. thats simple.. I mean the ducting for cold air.. 

 

Tho those outlets are more industrial / commercial than residential.. similar to this.. 

Its not central air.. theres a split system evaporator for each space, individually controlled.. its a concealed (mini) split system.. thats then ducted.. around a large space.. 

Edited May 4, 2022 by LivinLOS

[LivinLOS]

2 hours ago, phetphet said:

Mine are York units.

Bear in mind access will be needed to evaporator units /fans for maintenance. Mine are in the ceiling and not easy to work on. Even with an access panel.

yes.. this is also why I want to discuss with an installer of the units to find out if there are vertical mounted units in this market and if so what are thier needs for warm air intake, connection piping etc.. I have 3 perfect vertical mount spaces saved but thats unit dependent on if they support that. 

 

If they need horizontal mounting only then I need to look at moving them through a wall to a void I have saved above some cupboard storage spaces.. However this may need to bisect a wall depending on the size of the units.. I also could add a drop ceiling but that would detract from a high flying roof design that flows through the entrance to the rear pool. 

Edited May 4, 2022 by LivinLOS

[OneMoreFarang]

1 hour ago, LivinLOS said:

I dont mean the coolant piping.. thats simple.. I mean the ducting for cold air.. 

 

Tho those outlets are more industrial / commercial than residential.. similar to this.. 

Its not central air.. theres a split system evaporator for each space, individually controlled.. its a concealed (mini) split system.. thats then ducted.. around a large space.. 

Better take that picture to anyone who should know what you are talking about.

[unheard]

2 hours ago, LivinLOS said:

I dont mean the coolant piping.. thats simple.. I mean the ducting for cold air..

https://www.mitsuheavythai.com/en/

 

https://mhiaa.com.au/products/series/ducted-airconditioning-systems-fdum-series/

 

[LivinLOS]

Thanks.. 

I have mitsubishi and Daikin now on my list.. 

Theres even a Daikin Pro shop in chaing mai but I am recovering from some surgery.. 

As I said right at the outset.. This isnt a 'somchai the local AC guy' consultation..