British press support UK pensioners losing out in Thailand

[Eff1n2ret]

16 minutes ago, Neeranam said:

Really? News to me. 

 

 

 

 

Income earned in the UK is subject to UK income tax, and it is deducted under the PAYE system from your pensions in the same way as if you were in a job there, subject to the £12k+ tax-free allowance. Some may choose to move their pensions abroad under so-called QROPS schemes, but this is not open to pensions paid by the Government, including the State Retirement Pension and any Civil Service or Local Government pensions.

Edit:- Unless you have other income not deducted under PAYE, e.g. house rental income, you may not be required to submit a tax return as suggested above.

Edited May 8, 2022 by Eff1n2ret

[Neeranam]

10 minutes ago, Mac Mickmanus said:

Have you been filling in your U.K tax returns ?

Huge fines if you havent been doing that 

no, like I said, news to me

[Neeranam]

1 minute ago, Eff1n2ret said:

Income earned in the UK is subject to UK income tax, and it is deducted under the PAYE system from your pensions in the same way as if you were in a job there, subject to the £12k+ tax-free allowance. Some may choose to move their pensions abroad under so-called QROPS schemes, but this is not open to pensions paid by the Government, including the State Retirement Pension and any Civil Service or Local Government pensions.

 I only worked in the UK for 4 years or so but have should get a full pension as I paid back 10 years a few years back and got my payments paid when I was a student for 7 years or so. I pay tax here, there is a tax 'treaty' between UK and Thailand

[metisdead]

An off topic post about Ukraine and a reply has been removed.

[chalawaan]

What did you expect? 

Let me guess -in a rag that supports Brexit too.

Quelle surprise! 

Rupert us not your friend, Rupert despises you, and worse, he controls your thinking, thus controls your fate, literally. 

Here's the proof ↑↑ Again.

[Mac Mickmanus]

5 minutes ago, Neeranam said:

no, like I said, news to me

Was you self employed and filling out a yearly self assessment tax form  or PAYE ?

[In Full Agreement]

On 5/7/2022 at 5:04 PM, baboon said:

Bit pointless having a government, that being the case. They might as well outsource themselves to an Indian IT firm...

 

They're working on it as we speak.

[doctormann]

40 minutes ago, Neeranam said:

 I only worked in the UK for 4 years or so but have should get a full pension as I paid back 10 years a few years back and got my payments paid when I was a student for 7 years or so. I pay tax here, there is a tax 'treaty' between UK and Thailand

I believe that you need 35 qualifying years in order to qualify for the full UK basic pension.  If you have less than 35 years you will be paid pro rata, according to the number of qualifying years that you have.  Looking at the numbers that you have quoted you currently have about 21 qualifying years so how many years before you reach retiring age?

 

https://www.gov.uk/new-state-pension/how-its-calculated#:~:text=You'll usually need at,10 and 35 qualifying years.

[Neeranam]

1 hour ago, doctormann said:

I believe that you need 35 qualifying years in order to qualify for the full UK basic pension.  If you have less than 35 years you will be paid pro rata, according to the number of qualifying years that you have.  Looking at the numbers that you have quoted you currently have about 21 qualifying years so how many years before you reach retiring age?

 

https://www.gov.uk/new-state-pension/how-its-calculated#:~:text=You'll usually need at,10 and 35 qualifying years.

I only need 10 more years for the full pension so I'll just pay back the 150 quid a year, which takes me to retiring age.. 

It was a great deal, paying back 66k baht for 10 years. Previously, when I asked it was much more like 300k. No complaints from me regarding pension. 

 

[Neeranam]

2 hours ago, Mac Mickmanus said:

Was you self employed and filling out a yearly self assessment tax form  or PAYE ?

no

[lamyai3]

18 hours ago, doctormann said:

I believe that you need 35 qualifying years in order to qualify for the full UK basic pension.  If you have less than 35 years you will be paid pro rata, according to the number of qualifying years that you have.  Looking at the numbers that you have quoted you currently have about 21 qualifying years so how many years before you reach retiring age?

 

https://www.gov.uk/new-state-pension/how-its-calculated#:~:text=You'll usually need at,10 and 35 qualifying years.

35 years only refers to those entering the system after 2016. This may be higher if contracted out of SERPS in the past and lower NI rates were paid. 

[doctormann]

12 minutes ago, lamyai3 said:

35 years only refers to those entering the system after 2016. This may be higher if contracted out of SERPS in the past and lower NI rates were paid. 

I was referring to the current situation.  I needed to pay for 44 years - but I did buy back about six years to make up a shortfall.  As Neeranam said, this is not expensive to do, although there used to be a limit on the number of buy back years.

 

[lamyai3]

6 minutes ago, doctormann said:

I was referring to the current situation.  I needed to pay for 44 years - but I did buy back about six years to make up a shortfall.  As Neeranam said, this is not expensive to do, although there used to be a limit on the number of buy back years.

 

There's still a six year limit, though until April 2023 an additional 10 back years can be bought going back to 2006-07. This is due to the legislation changes brought in 2016 requiring more years. 

[Kwasaki]

20 minutes ago, doctormann said:

I was referring to the current situation.  I needed to pay for 44 years - but I did buy back about six years to make up a shortfall.  As Neeranam said, this is not expensive to do, although there used to be a limit on the number of buy back years.

 

When my pension was due I thought I needed 44 years and had 42.

I made enquiries for payment near my pension time 2012.

They said no need you have 30 years you will get a full pension. 

I ask if I will get a rebate. ????

[Neeranam]

14 minutes ago, lamyai3 said:

There's still a six year limit, though until April 2023 an additional 10 back years can be bought going back to 2006-07. This is due to the legislation changes brought in 2016 requiring more years. 

That was around the time they changed my 10 year payback from Class 1 to class 2 contributions. 

Makes a huge difference if I live to be 70+

[sandyf]

22 hours ago, Neeranam said:

I suppose we don't pay tax when we live here.

I like many others do pay income tax to the UK.  That is one of the major problems, a general perception that all expats are not paying income tax.

Those that do pay income tax are effectively funding part of their own pension as well as paying for services they never receive.

[Neeranam]

39 minutes ago, sandyf said:

I like many others do pay income tax to the UK.  That is one of the major problems, a general perception that all expats are not paying income tax.

Those that do pay income tax are effectively funding part of their own pension as well as paying for services they never receive.

Surely you should be entitled to the increases if you pay tax in the UK. 

That said, I guess you knew the rules when you moved here. 

[hashmodha]

On 5/4/2022 at 4:41 PM, sandyf said:

The reciprocal agreements are to do with Social Security and the UK government decided about 40 years ago that they were not going to enter into any more

agreements, but made an exception for Brexit.

One of the fundamental problems is that the legislation that governs the index linking is embedded in the Social Security Act. The Social Security Act comes before parliament every year but the government controls business in the house and will only allow time for the changes they put forward to be debated. Anyone that wants to bring up frozen pensions just doesn't get the chance and the SS Act gets voted through with everything else unchanged. Nobody wants to vote against it and be seen to be denying an increase in universal credit.

The government could intervene and adjust the legislation if there was a will to do so, they did it for those that would have been affected by Brexit.

Thank you for this....it makes a lot of sense... Good Morning!

[OJAS]

23 hours ago, Neeranam said:

Surely you should be entitled to the increases if you pay tax in the UK. 

That said, I guess you knew the rules when you moved here. 

I'm sure that most of us were aware of the rules to which you refer before deciding to relocate from the UK to Thailand. The principal cause of our resentment, though, is that said rules are not being applied equally and consistently across each and every country on this great planet of ours.

 

[OJAS]

On 5/2/2022 at 10:19 AM, Guderian said:

Until we get a 'vote for life', and use it to threaten our MP's, nothing will change. The new bill which lays the ground for removing the 15-year limit on Overseas Voters received Royal Assent on 28th April, but detailed secondary legislation is needed to implement the new provisions. This is expected next year, with us finally getting the right to vote in the UK, regardless of how long we've been living abroad, sometime in 2024. If a few hundred thousand expats then sign up to vote, and tell the ruling party at the time that they'll vote for the other lot unless the state pension is unfrozen, then something might happen. That's still a pretty big 'if', though.

 

https://commonslibrary.parliament.uk/research-briefings/sn05923/

Depends on who is the MP for the constituency in which you are registered as an overseas voter, though. Mine is none other than Sir Ed Davey, the leader of the Lib Dems, who has never shown any interest in various issues (including frozen pensions) which I have raised with him since moving out to Thailand. What is really needed IMHO is a system of dedicated constituencies for overseas residents as is the case in France, for example:-

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Constituencies_for_French_residents_overseas

 

But never likely to happen in practice, of course, under the "first-past-the-post" voting system.☹️

 

Edited May 10, 2022 by OJAS

[bignbad]

Just received this e-mail, suppose everyone will get a copy

 

The Government has responded to the petition you signed – “Give U.K. pensioners living abroad increases with parity as those in the U.K.”.

Government responded:

There are no plans to change the policy. The Government continues to up-rate the State Pension where there is a legal requirement to do so.

The UK Government has no plans to change the current arrangements for payment of UK State Pension overseas.

The United Kingdom’s state pension system is primarily designed for the benefit of those who are resident in the UK. It is, however, payable worldwide and is uprated in the UK and also in countries abroad where there is a legal requirement to do so. This is a longstanding policy and has been implemented by successive Governments of all political persuasions for over 70 years. The policy has been the subject of Parliamentary debates over time and has been approved by Parliament and the Courts.

The rate of National Insurance contributions paid has never earned entitlement to the uprating of pensions payable abroad. This reflects the fact that the UK scheme is primarily designed for those living in the UK. The National Insurance scheme operates on a “pay-as-you-go” basis. Contributions paid into the National Insurance Fund in any year finance contributory benefit expenditure in the same year. A person’s contributions provide a foundation for calculating their future benefit entitlement but do not actually pay for those benefits.

UK expenditure on health care costs depends on where the UK pensioner settles. While the location may be decided by the pensioner, individual countries have their own immigration policies in relation to older economically inactive people. Paying uprating to UK pension recipients in countries where it is not currently paid would mean an immediate increase in costs.

There are now around 1.2 million UK State Pension recipients who are overseas residents and around 0.5 million of them do not receive increases. It would cost over £0.6bn extra a year to up-rate these pensions fully, that is to pay the pension at the rate that would be applicable if the pensioner had lived in the UK throughout. Paying future increases only would cost tens of millions in the short term but would lead to the cost of full uprating (£0.6bn) in the longer term as older pensioners died and new pensioners became entitled to fully up-rated state pensions.

Cost has always been a factor in deciding whether pension increases should be paid in overseas countries and successive governments have taken the view that it would be unfair to impose an additional burden on contributors and taxpayers in the UK to fund increased pensions for those who have chosen to live abroad. The Government concurs with that position. Ultimately, there is a choice for the individual to make where to live, and what the consequences are should that choice be somewhere other than the UK. The rules on uprating the State Pension are clear and well publicised. So the choice to migrate or not remains a choice for the individual. UK State Pensions paid to people living outside the UK also go to people who migrated for economic or other reasons well before they reached pension age.

Department for Work and Pensions

Click this link to view the response online:

https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/601821?reveal_response=yes

The Petitions Committee will take a look at this petition and its response. They can press the government for action and gather evidence. If this petition reaches 100,000 signatures, the Committee will consider it for a debate.

The Committee is made up of 11 MPs, from political parties in government and in opposition. It is entirely independent of the Government. Find out more about the Committee: https://petition.parliament.uk/help#petitions-committee

Thanks,
The Petitions team
UK Government and Parliament

 

[Orinoco]

1 hour ago, bignbad said:

Just received this e-mail, suppose everyone will get a copy

 

The Government has responded to the petition you signed – “Give U.K. pensioners living abroad increases with parity as those in the U.K.”.

Government responded:

There are no plans to change the policy. The Government continues to up-rate the State Pension where there is a legal requirement to do so.

The UK Government has no plans to change the current arrangements for payment of UK State Pension overseas.

The United Kingdom’s state pension system is primarily designed for the benefit of those who are resident in the UK. It is, however, payable worldwide and is uprated in the UK and also in countries abroad where there is a legal requirement to do so. This is a longstanding policy and has been implemented by successive Governments of all political persuasions for over 70 years. The policy has been the subject of Parliamentary debates over time and has been approved by Parliament and the Courts.

The rate of National Insurance contributions paid has never earned entitlement to the uprating of pensions payable abroad. This reflects the fact that the UK scheme is primarily designed for those living in the UK. The National Insurance scheme operates on a “pay-as-you-go” basis. Contributions paid into the National Insurance Fund in any year finance contributory benefit expenditure in the same year. A person’s contributions provide a foundation for calculating their future benefit entitlement but do not actually pay for those benefits.

UK expenditure on health care costs depends on where the UK pensioner settles. While the location may be decided by the pensioner, individual countries have their own immigration policies in relation to older economically inactive people. Paying uprating to UK pension recipients in countries where it is not currently paid would mean an immediate increase in costs.

There are now around 1.2 million UK State Pension recipients who are overseas residents and around 0.5 million of them do not receive increases. It would cost over £0.6bn extra a year to up-rate these pensions fully, that is to pay the pension at the rate that would be applicable if the pensioner had lived in the UK throughout. Paying future increases only would cost tens of millions in the short term but would lead to the cost of full uprating (£0.6bn) in the longer term as older pensioners died and new pensioners became entitled to fully up-rated state pensions.

Cost has always been a factor in deciding whether pension increases should be paid in overseas countries and successive governments have taken the view that it would be unfair to impose an additional burden on contributors and taxpayers in the UK to fund increased pensions for those who have chosen to live abroad. The Government concurs with that position. Ultimately, there is a choice for the individual to make where to live, and what the consequences are should that choice be somewhere other than the UK. The rules on uprating the State Pension are clear and well publicised. So the choice to migrate or not remains a choice for the individual. UK State Pensions paid to people living outside the UK also go to people who migrated for economic or other reasons well before they reached pension age.

Department for Work and Pensions

Click this link to view the response online:

https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/601821?reveal_response=yes

The Petitions Committee will take a look at this petition and its response. They can press the government for action and gather evidence. If this petition reaches 100,000 signatures, the Committee will consider it for a debate.

The Committee is made up of 11 MPs, from political parties in government and in opposition. It is entirely independent of the Government. Find out more about the Committee: https://petition.parliament.uk/help#petitions-committee

Thanks,
The Petitions team
UK Government and Parliament

 

This no surprise. a lot of words to say one thing.

How about two letters only

F & U

Best regards.

UK Government.  

 

 

 

Edited May 11, 2022 by Orinoco

[Farmerslife]

As anticipated - two fingers up from the UK Government.

 

The Government has responded to the petition you signed – “Give U.K. pensioners living abroad increases with parity as those in the U.K.”.

Government responded:

There are no plans to change the policy. The Government continues to up-rate the State Pension where there is a legal requirement to do so.

The UK Government has no plans to change the current arrangements for payment of UK State Pension overseas................

They conveniently overlook the fact that many of us still pay income tax in the UK on our total pension income if it takes us over the £12,500 personal allowance. 

Edited May 11, 2022 by Farmerslife

[anchadian]

1 hour ago, bignbad said:

Just received this e-mail, suppose everyone will get a copy

 

The Government has responded to the petition you signed – “Give U.K. pensioners living abroad increases with parity as those in the U.K.”.

Government responded:

There are no plans to change the policy. The Government continues to up-rate the State Pension where there is a legal requirement to do so.

The UK Government has no plans to change the current arrangements for payment of UK State Pension overseas.

The United Kingdom’s state pension system is primarily designed for the benefit of those who are resident in the UK. It is, however, payable worldwide and is uprated in the UK and also in countries abroad where there is a legal requirement to do so. This is a longstanding policy and has been implemented by successive Governments of all political persuasions for over 70 years. The policy has been the subject of Parliamentary debates over time and has been approved by Parliament and the Courts.

The rate of National Insurance contributions paid has never earned entitlement to the uprating of pensions payable abroad. This reflects the fact that the UK scheme is primarily designed for those living in the UK. The National Insurance scheme operates on a “pay-as-you-go” basis. Contributions paid into the National Insurance Fund in any year finance contributory benefit expenditure in the same year. A person’s contributions provide a foundation for calculating their future benefit entitlement but do not actually pay for those benefits.

UK expenditure on health care costs depends on where the UK pensioner settles. While the location may be decided by the pensioner, individual countries have their own immigration policies in relation to older economically inactive people. Paying uprating to UK pension recipients in countries where it is not currently paid would mean an immediate increase in costs.

There are now around 1.2 million UK State Pension recipients who are overseas residents and around 0.5 million of them do not receive increases. It would cost over £0.6bn extra a year to up-rate these pensions fully, that is to pay the pension at the rate that would be applicable if the pensioner had lived in the UK throughout. Paying future increases only would cost tens of millions in the short term but would lead to the cost of full uprating (£0.6bn) in the longer term as older pensioners died and new pensioners became entitled to fully up-rated state pensions.

Cost has always been a factor in deciding whether pension increases should be paid in overseas countries and successive governments have taken the view that it would be unfair to impose an additional burden on contributors and taxpayers in the UK to fund increased pensions for those who have chosen to live abroad. The Government concurs with that position. Ultimately, there is a choice for the individual to make where to live, and what the consequences are should that choice be somewhere other than the UK. The rules on uprating the State Pension are clear and well publicised. So the choice to migrate or not remains a choice for the individual. UK State Pensions paid to people living outside the UK also go to people who migrated for economic or other reasons well before they reached pension age.

Department for Work and Pensions

Click this link to view the response online:

https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/601821?reveal_response=yes

The Petitions Committee will take a look at this petition and its response. They can press the government for action and gather evidence. If this petition reaches 100,000 signatures, the Committee will consider it for a debate.

The Committee is made up of 11 MPs, from political parties in government and in opposition. It is entirely independent of the Government. Find out more about the Committee: https://petition.parliament.uk/help#petitions-committee

Thanks,
The Petitions team
UK Government and Parliament

 

Not everyone, only those that signed the petition.

[Kwasaki]

Answer as expected.

[Thailand]

26 minutes ago, Kwasaki said:

Answer as expected.

As I said on another thread - It's a big up yours from HMG!

[Kwasaki]

7 minutes ago, Thailand said:

As I said on another thread - It's a big up yours from HMG!

The care of old aged pensioners in UK has always been words not deeds.

Everytime they get my proof life form back they probably think oh dam his still alive.

 

 

[hashmodha]

On 5/4/2022 at 4:41 PM, sandyf said:

The reciprocal agreements are to do with Social Security and the UK government decided about 40 years ago that they were not going to enter into any more

agreements, but made an exception for Brexit.

One of the fundamental problems is that the legislation that governs the index linking is embedded in the Social Security Act. The Social Security Act comes before parliament every year but the government controls business in the house and will only allow time for the changes they put forward to be debated. Anyone that wants to bring up frozen pensions just doesn't get the chance and the SS Act gets voted through with everything else unchanged. Nobody wants to vote against it and be seen to be denying an increase in universal credit.

The government could intervene and adjust the legislation if there was a will to do so, they did it for those that would have been affected by Brexit.

Good morning... here is the outcome which I received today..

Look what I shared: Give U.K. pensioners living abroad increases with parity as those in the U.K. - Petitions @MIUI| https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/601821

[hashmodha]

On 5/4/2022 at 4:41 PM, sandyf said:

The reciprocal agreements are to do with Social Security and the UK government decided about 40 years ago that they were not going to enter into any more

agreements, but made an exception for Brexit.

One of the fundamental problems is that the legislation that governs the index linking is embedded in the Social Security Act. The Social Security Act comes before parliament every year but the government controls business in the house and will only allow time for the changes they put forward to be debated. Anyone that wants to bring up frozen pensions just doesn't get the chance and the SS Act gets voted through with everything else unchanged. Nobody wants to vote against it and be seen to be denying an increase in universal credit.

The government could intervene and adjust the legislation if there was a will to do so, they did it for those that would have been affected by Brexit.

I would happily continue to  contribute towards the National Insurance contributions as would a lot of retirees in order to get indexation continuation, what do others think about this here... Should there be a referendum about this!?

[hashmodha]

1 minute ago, hashmodha said:

I would happily continue to  contribute towards the National Insurance contributions as would a lot of retirees in order to get indexation continuation, what do others think about this here... Should there be a referendum about this!?

Look what I shared: Give U.K. pensioners living abroad increases with parity as those in the U.K. - Petitions @MIUI| https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/601821