Question about Fingerprint Scanners at Immigration..

[aussiexpat]

This whole thread is stupid. If you are banned from entering Thailand for 'x' years then don't cone back until 'x' years pass. Anything else is speculation on how to break the law to re-enter

 

 

[Caldera]

3 hours ago, bradiston said:

4 hours ago, Caldera said:

From my experience just prior to Covid, they now have fingerprint scanners everywhere (including sleepy land border posts). And they use them for everyone, unless the machine is broken.

 

If they determine that a blacklisted person attempts to enter, they deny entry. A more interesting question is what happens if you do gain entry despite being blacklisted. In that case, criminal charges for illegal entry are a likely result.

Expand  

If they stamp you in, I don't see how you can be busted for illegal entry.

It's not a name that is being blacklisted, it's the person. If you deceive an immigration officer to stamp you in (or if they do so in error), despite you being blacklisted, you can be prosecuted for illegal entry.

 

Same with overstay. If an IO mistakenly stamps you in for 90 days, but you should have received pnly 30 days, your overstay starts when those 30 days are up (if another official later notices the error).

 

[The Hammer2021]

1 hour ago, aussiexpat said:

I guess you don't travel much as they've been scanning fingerprints on entry and exit for at least the last 4 years.

 

Also photographs on entry for last 7 years at least, so pic and fingerprints should nail the OP you'd think

I haven't travelled  much in the last two years as I've been living in Thailand due to covid limitations and other personal restrictions but I don't remember doing  a finger print scan in February  2020 when I arrived but do  remember doing them at least  once  when they were  first introduced in this country possibly July 2019.  I did them frequently in the middle east and definitely  had retina scans in the UK. Although  I remember  the cameras at Thai immigration last time I don't think I did finger print scan - could it be a  visa/ residence issue?

Edited May 11, 2022 by The Hammer2021

[The Hammer2021]

11 minutes ago, aussiexpat said:

This whole thread is stupid. If you are banned from entering Thailand for 'x' years then don't cone back until 'x' years pass. Anything else is speculation on how to break the law to re-enter

 

 

Not at all. It is  speculation as to how a system works. The acquisition of such knowledge is not 'stupid' . It's inquisitiveness. No harm in that.

[digger70]

9 hours ago, bluebird729 said:

I'm not asking anyone to find a way around the law.
I am asking a question about the immigration and system.   (for example, if I said:  "what would happen if a man commits fraud, What is the amount of jail time they will receive?")

 So really, please consider this as request for knowledge, rather than asking for ways around the law.
  - I have given a situation and am asking what the rules are.

 

If you want to know Go and Ask Immigration .they will tell you .

If you not in the country you can Always Email them.

[billd766]

1 hour ago, NativeBob said:

transactions are verrry expensive to "run fingers" of every farang. Facial recognition used in small country in the Middle East costs gassilions so they had to reconsider running "single snout vs. whole database"

Now consider prosperous SE Asian country and how is it possible to pay for "mix'n'match fingerprints". 

So the answer is "hell no". Another one - what is the punishment for illegal entry? fee + overstay + detention center and airport. Can be done within a day, but it depends on lawyer's quality.

Fingerprint scanners are only to collect data, not to send it to some super-computer to search and match. 

But would YOU be willing to take that chance?

 

I know I wouldn't.

[problemfarang]

There were many posts so i stopped reading after 5th or 6th. So im not sure if you got your answer or not but for your questions:

 

Finger scan is really every where. I had just 2 weeks ago when leaving thailand at the airport. My friend finger printed when crossing the border. In and out. If they finger print him when he was entering thailand, he will be there till his ban ends. You mentioned name change and so on. He will only change his name, not skin. So most likely they will see him in the system. What will happen, most likely they will put him in some waiting room or jail and ask him to find the first flight back to home and keep him in the waiting room or in jail till he gets on plane with police escort. If he is wanted for a crime.. well that will end not good.

 

Suggestion,

I dont know why he is so desperet to come back to thailand even changing his name but i wouldnt. I would wait till it ends. Thats the safest way. OR as mentioned before you can go to immigration and ask them with your friends infos. 

 

Although.... there are some people thinking that all of that finger scan or if there is a connection between any immigration or it works are just a urban legend.. worth the try, nah. 

Edited May 11, 2022 by problemfarang

[bradiston]

31 minutes ago, digger70 said:

If you want to know Go and Ask Immigration .they will tell you .

If you not in the country you can Always Email them.

Do you really think they're going to give out that information via email? Or even if you went to the IO. You could be anyone. I was given the phone number of the IO office in Jomtien by one helpful agent. Yeah, ring them up from Germany (not me, BTW) and ask them if you can come back? Err, maybe not.

 

But, I might try going down there and asking how would somebody find out if he/she could return. Probably wouldn't talk to me.

[bluebird729]

2 hours ago, aussiexpat said:

I guess you don't travel much as they've been scanning fingerprints on entry and exit for at least the last 4 years.

 

Also photographs on entry for last 7 years at least, so pic and fingerprints should nail the OP you'd think

I've not been to Thailand for 5 years...  (but the friend in question just left there last year, and was banned for 3 years for overstaying).

I really cant remember being photographed on any of my entry or exits at any airport of border 5 to 7 years ago.

What kind of photo (face scan) system did they have since 7 years ago? because honestly I cant remember anything of the sort.

[bradiston]

1 hour ago, aussiexpat said:

This whole thread is stupid. If you are banned from entering Thailand for 'x' years then don't cone back until 'x' years pass. Anything else is speculation on how to break the law to re-enter

 

 

I agree, but the problem is finding out if you are still blacklisted. In other words, how not to risk breaking the law by attempting to enter Thailand illegally. And who do you trust? An IO down at your local office who says "No problem", or "Cannot"? A print out of the person's rap sheet? Who's going to give you a copy of that?

Edited May 11, 2022 by bradiston

[bluebird729]

2 hours ago, NativeBob said:

Fingerprint scanners are only to collect data, not to send it to some super-computer to search and match. 

How certain are you that the fingerprint scanners dont actually perform a database match against all known banned people? 

What makes you sure that the scanners only save the file, and nothing more ?

[Pilot3Boz]

When I arrived on Nov 20th last year picture and fingerprints were taken... Departed on May 8th both were taken again.... He hesitated to complete my exit stamp while his system update my info for the match he was expecting... Your friend who broke the law will get snagged and rightfully so!!! I am speculating here but I think he will be processed for fraudulent efforts, again rightfully so!!!

[soi3eddie]

5 hours ago, FriendlyFarang said:

I think even before covid they had scanners at all entry points. So he will be scanned.

The question is just how reliable the system is, but I think nobody here knows that.

True, nobody knows. Some public facing Thai IT systems are terrible but I would reckon that immigration for fingerprinting (and quite likely facial recognition) is strong and tied to a large database. Land border may be option of least pain if still concerned.

 

[KannikaP]

1 hour ago, The Hammer2021 said:

definitely  had retina scans in the UK.

Where, and how was that done please?

[bluebird729]

1 hour ago, Sheryl said:

He certainly should not attempt to enter on a passport that is not valid or under an assumed name.

 

As to whether there will be a match up based on fingerprint should he somehow obtain a legal passport under a different name (which would require a legal name change), no one is going to be able to  tell you that for certain.

Thanks for the reply..
  She was banned for 3 years for overstaying... She was never caught and paid the 20,000 THB upon leaving Suvarnabhumi Airport last year.
She had the idea to legally change her name and get a valid new passport.

She is hoping to try coming back to Thailand for a 30 day holiday (and nothing more). 

And, she said she is prepared to fly to Cambodia or neighbouring country to land-cross into Thailand (if that makes the process easier).

Her main worry is if the scanner (finger or face) will actually perform a full database check against all previously banned people from Thailand, therefore getting caught at the border trying to enter illegally.
If this happens, she doesnt mind getting denied entry; But obviously worries about being arrested and jailed.  I suppose she wont mind the latter if its just a few days waiting for admin and flight... But obviously she wont want any long-term detention time time.

 

I'm also wondering if she manages to Enter thailand, but gets caught Leaving Thailand!
It's possible that the finger-scan database may 'match' with her previous name during her 30 day visit and she may be 'red flagged' and caught trying to exit the country at the end of the holiday.
In that case, would they let her leave? or arrest her?

* thanks for your previous comment.

[bluebird729]

1 hour ago, The Hammer2021 said:

I remember  the cameras at Thai immigration last time I don't think I did finger print scan - could it be a  visa/ residence issue?

I wonder if the facial recognition cameras at the Thai immigration are purely to match face to passport (for ID verification purposes), and not for face-matching against millions of faces on a database?

Also,, I honestly cant remember, but do they also have face recognition cameras at land-borders too?  (ie: Poipet & Nong Khai)

[bluebird729]

45 minutes ago, bradiston said:

Not overstay. Banged up for 10 years, reduced to 5, out in 2 1/2 with pardon. 1.5g of ice.

definitely the strangest post on this thread, Lol

[bluebird729]

26 minutes ago, KannikaP said:

Where, and how was that done please?

I think he means 'face scan' (and not retina scan) from the 'e-gates' at Airports in the UK.
They are used to match a persons face to their passport to verify it is a match.
While I am sure it possibly uses eyes, nose and facial features, I dont believe it is solely an 'eye-scan'.

[The Hammer2021]

32 minutes ago, bluebird729 said:

I wonder if the facial recognition cameras at the Thai immigration are purely to match face to passport (for ID verification purposes), and not for face-matching against millions of faces on a database?

Also,, I honestly cant remember, but do they also have face recognition cameras at land-borders too?  (ie: Poipet & Nong Khai)

Good point - or is it actual retina scanning?

They suggest they have a picture  DB of baduns and that's how they catch peedos etc..but who knows what it is  supposed to do and how effective it is?

[StevieAus]

10 hours ago, CharlieH said:

Theres a technical answer and a Thai answer, I would say it entirely depends what happens on the day.

In this country it seems the person/lofficer on the day determines whats gonna happen not much else.

 

Total inconsistency in attitudes /enforcement and which way the wind blows !

Totally agree but you missed one very important point, relating to the folding stuff in your wallet, it seems to solve most

"administrative problems" !

[Russell17au]

Think about this. What documents do you need to produce to get a passport in your home country? Birth Certificate is one of those documents and even if you legally change your name your Birth Certificate still carries you registered name at birth and that can never be changed on your BC and that information along with your name change is encrypted in the chip on your passport and it does not matter what country in the world you go to they all scan the chip on your passport which shows them your name at birth and the name you are using now. So bingo here is a person who has thought that they could enter our country simply by changing their name and getting a new passport but on scanning their passport it shows that they were banned from entering our country under a different name which is also connected to this passport. What are we going to do with this person that wants to try and cheat our system and enter our country illegally whilst fully knowing that they have been banned? Out with the handcuffs and off to the detention centre for a hearing on the case and the verdict is this person is guilty of illegal entry to our country so you are sentenced to 5 years in prison after which you will be deported and a big red deported stamp placed in your nice new passport for all the world to see until you change your name and get a new passport again and never allowed to re-enter our country ever again

Edited May 11, 2022 by Russell17au

[scorecard]

11 hours ago, bluebird729 said:

I'm not really interested in opinions... really I want answers to the questions..

I hope they will not be allowed to enter!

 

It's been discussed/mentioned many times before that changing your name doesn't mean you can automatically enter Thailand or any country.

 

Most/ maybe all counties allow databases of passport holders to be canned by other countries.

 

I know for a fact that if I was to look at your new name on the passport database for xxxxx country it would also alert me to the fact that this person previously used the name of hhhhh  rrrrrr. 

 

 

[Russell17au]

16 minutes ago, StevieAus said:

Totally agree but you missed one very important point, relating to the folding stuff in your wallet, it seems to solve most

"administrative problems" !

You seem to miss one important point and that is you are at a busy international entry point where there are lots of camera's around and it would be too risky for any IO there to do anything like what you suggest, it is not a simple local immigration office

[Kalasin Jo]

11 hours ago, The Hammer2021 said:

At what point in the entry exit process are finger prints scanned?

I think I was scanned once,  years ago when leaving.

Regarding the OPs questions - it depends on how the system is configured as certainly the system is designed  to detect people based on their bio characteristics rather than paperwork.  I would assume  retinal cameras are an issue and more modern and effective.

So for the time being the answer  to the OPs questions are don't know not sure.

I've been finger print scanned at Suvarnabhumi immigration entry/exit point, going in an going out. Several times now, including February in and May out. They've only said no need when either the system was down or once ( BC) because of huge queues. What they do with the scanned prints I do not know.  You don't give them for a visa application nor, still I believe, for an extension of stay but I haven't done an extension application for 3 years now.

[scorecard]

Just now, scorecard said:

I hope they will not be allowed to enter!

 

It's been discussed/mentioned many times before that changing your name doesn't mean you can automatically enter Thailand or any country.

 

Most/ maybe all counties allow databases of passport holders to be canned by other countries.

 

I know for a fact that if I was to look at your new name on the passport database for xxxxx country it would also alert me to the fact that this person previously used the name of hhhhh  rrrrrr. 

 

 

Further, when my Thai son changed his family name to mine (with a letter from the Thai Foreign Affairs Ministry) he was asked if 'he had a Thai passport'.

 

Son answered 'Yes'.

 

Ministry guy said you will need to go to the Thai passport office and get a new passport and make sure you take all four relevant documents with you and please do it quickly. 

 

A bit confused my son asked 'Will my new passport show my old family name and my new family?'

 

Answer 'NO, only your new family name will show on your new passport, but both family names will show forever in the official Thai passports database'.

 

I don't recall why but the ministry official also said 'both family name show up if an immigration official from any country accesses the Thai passport database'. 

[scorecard]

5 minutes ago, Kalasin Jo said:

I've been finger print scanned at Suvarnabhumi immigration entry/exit point, going in an going out. Several times now, including February in and May out. They've only said no need when either the system was down or once ( BC) because of huge queues. What they do with the scanned prints I do not know.  You don't give them for a visa application nor, still I believe, for an extension of stay but I haven't done an extension application for 3 years now.

Perhaps the bottom line is that they are slowly working towards establishing a very big database for the future. 

[Russell17au]

10 minutes ago, scorecard said:

Further, when my Thai son changed his family name to mine (with a letter from the Thai Foreign Affairs Ministry) he was asked if 'he had a Thai passport'.

 

Son answered 'Yes'.

 

Ministry guy said you will need to go to the Thai passport office and get a new passport and make sure you take all four relevant documents with you and please do it quickly. 

 

A bit confused my son asked 'Will my new passport show my old family name and my new family?'

 

Answer 'NO, only your new family name will show on your new passport, but both family names will show forever in the official Thai passports database'.

 

I don't recall why but the ministry official also said 'both family name show up if an immigration official from any country accesses the Thai passport database'. 

For a few years now every passport in the world has a chip embedded in them that has every bit of information including name changes so now it is not a case of another country accessing the Thai passport database, the information is on the chip in the passport. This saves a lot of time when doing a check on a person trying to enter a country

[Tony125]

3 hours ago, bluebird729 said:

Thanks for the reply..
  She was banned for 3 years for overstaying... She was never caught and paid the 20,000 THB upon leaving Suvarnabhumi Airport last year.
She had the idea to legally change her name and get a valid new passport.

She is hoping to try coming back to Thailand for a 30 day holiday (and nothing more). 

And, she said she is prepared to fly to Cambodia or neighbouring country to land-cross into Thailand (if that makes the process easier).

Her main worry is if the scanner (finger or face) will actually perform a full database check against all previously banned people from Thailand, therefore getting caught at the border trying to enter illegally.
If this happens, she doesnt mind getting denied entry; But obviously worries about being arrested and jailed.  I suppose she wont mind the latter if its just a few days waiting for admin and flight... But obviously she wont want any long-term detention time time.

 

I'm also wondering if she manages to Enter thailand, but gets caught Leaving Thailand!
It's possible that the finger-scan database may 'match' with her previous name during her 30 day visit and she may be 'red flagged' and caught trying to exit the country at the end of the holiday.
In that case, would they let her leave? or arrest her?

* thanks for your previous comment.

So she is trying to return before  her time being banned is over. Been coming here for 22 years so here are a few examples. Guy was blacklisted  and a dual citizen . Came back and entered a land border and got stamped in on other nationality passport. Later was seen by Thai who knew him and was reported. Was arrested for Illegaly breaking Thai law by entering before his ban was over. Authorities told him " your passport was not banned --you are banned from entering" Doesn't matter the name or if  a different passport. Since they entered knowing they were not supposed to be in the country now they faced aditional charges of entering Thailand illegally.

There are scanners now at every land border and airport as far as I know. If managed to get in say scanners temporarily down I wouldnot think to chance leaving and hoping the scanners wouldbe broken again. Caught illegally entering after being baned might cost her some jail time and 10 year ban.

[digbeth]

They only need to scan your fingerprint to confirm that your fingerprint matches whoever it is say you are on the passport.

 

Most electronic passport already has some form of biometric data on, from just scanning your passport, they'd have a data from fingerprint to facial recognition to search against their own database, let alone names and date of birth that'd have thrown up red flag if similar person is 'blacklisted' in their system

 

scanning your fingerprint at the counter would only be done if they suspect you are using somebody else's passport 

[KannikaP]

6 hours ago, The Hammer2021 said:

Good point - or is it actual retina scanning?

They suggest they have a picture  DB of baduns and that's how they catch peedos etc..but who knows what it is  supposed to do and how effective it is?

It needs a VERY high resolution camera and scanner to do retina recognition....very expensive too.