Texas governor: 15 killed in school shooting; gunman dead

[Walker88]

We have a Party in the US that hates democracy and the entire Constitution, except for one single Amendment. That party would destroy everything the country could and should be, so long as they retain power and control. That party calls guns and gun ownership 'patriotic', when that party is the polar opposite of patriotism. They are jingoists, not patriots who believe in real democracy and freedom.

 

Some members of that Party actually sent out Christmas cards and Easter greetings where their entire family, including kids, stood in front of symbols of those holidays while brandishing the same style of weapons this latest killer used ripping apart children's bodies.

 

I have my doubts there is a cure or a vaccine for that kind of sickness.

[bbko]

For a county with "home of the brave" in it's national anthem, there sure are a lot of people so afraid of others, so afraid of the government they feel guns are needed. 

 

We can expect more mass killings in the future, what a county.

[jvs]

1 hour ago, Excel said:

I find it absolutely appalling that some posters on here have set there sights on deriding or supporting the likes of Obama and Trump when the subject matter is the terrible murders of 19 children and two teachers.

 

It illustrates to me that most Americans , and I assume most of the the Obama/Trump supporters/protagonists are Americans, can as usual wash over the tragic facts and introduce  ancillary arguments. The fact of the matter is, ever since the right to bear arms was written into the American constitution it has encouraged homicidal maniacs and the legal mechanisms to own firearms for mindless human slaughter to continue. One would have thought a nation that continuously complains about human rights in other countries, irrespective of the president in charge, would put their own house in order first. 

What a shame the US do not give such a high priority in protecting the human rights of the kids and other innocents who have been murdered and will be murdered in the future.

I can not imagine what trauma the parents and families of those murdered people are now going through but have to ask the question;- Do any of those parents or family members own guns themselves ? if so perhaps they should question their own accountability for such tragedies

I find it somehow ironic that the second amendment indirectly is the cause of this massacre,not only this one of course.

If the Founding Fathers would/could have known they would of course have done things differently.

They are not to blame,the people who are to blame is every American citizen alive today who is not willing to change the law.

[Scott]

Troll post removed.  

 

[KanchanaburiGuy]

1 hour ago, jvs said:

I find it somehow ironic that the second amendment indirectly is the cause of this massacre,not only this one of course.

If the Founding Fathers would/could have known they would of course have done things differently.

They are not to blame,the people who are to blame is every American citizen alive today who is not willing to change the law.

Sorry, but that's just silly. 

 

The founding Fathers came from an era where wanton killing was MUCH MORE COMMON than it is, today! Ask the Indians. Ask the blacks. 

 

Do you think they didn't remember that much of the land they were living on............ was acquired through genocide? That a lot of western expansion was happening via genocide? 

 

Agreed, the Founding Father's might have been shocked by WHO was being killed, but certainly not shocked that the killing was happening. 

 

The notion that the Founding Father's would have reconsidered the Second Amendment for THAT reason, is just plain silly. The world they lived in was much more brutal  than the world we live in today, recent events notwithstanding. 

 

Cheers! 

Edited May 26, 2022 by KanchanaburiGuy

[Phoenix Rising]

19 minutes ago, KanchanaburiGuy said:

Sorry, but that's just silly. 

 

The founding Fathers came from an era where wanton killing was MUCH MORE COMMON than it is, today! Ask the Indians. Ask the blacks. 

 

Do you think they didn't remember that much of the land they were living on............ was acquired through genocide? That a lot of western expansion was happening via genocide? 

 

Agreed, the Founding Father's might have been shocked by WHO was being killed, but certainly not shocked that the killing was happening. 

 

The notion that the Founding Father's would have reconsidered the Second Amendment for THAT reason, is just plain silly. The world they lived in was much more brutal  than the world we live in today, recent events notwithstanding. 

 

Cheers! 

Well, the founding fathers are dead and the world they lived in is no more. That means the country this constitution was written for is no more so no reason at all not to remove the anachronism that is the 2nd amendment.

[Atlantis]

"Half of America is evil! These gun nuts are killing our kids! (But not the Democrat-voting / Independent ones, shhhh, they don't count)...."

"....Why don't you do something! Why don't you DO something! Why don't you DO SOMETHING!....Huh, what, more police?! ???? No, not that!! "


A school district defunded police. But it keeps calling them back in.

https://publicintegrity.org/education/criminalizing-kids/milwaukee-school-district-defunded-police-but-it-keeps-calling-them-back-in/

 

These Districts Defunded Their School Police. What Happened Next?

https://www.edweek.org/leadership/these-districts-defunded-their-school-police-what-happened-next/2021/06

 

Goldstein Investigates: Rise In Violence At LAUSD After School Police Cutbacks
https://www.cbsnews.com/losangeles/news/goldstein-investigates-rise-in-violence-at-lausd-after-school-police-cutbacks/

 

Links below courtesy of @PoodThaiMaiDai on page 2 in the other thread.

 

 

 

 

[KanchanaburiGuy]

1 hour ago, Phoenix Rising said:

Well, the founding fathers are dead and the world they lived in is no more. That means the country this constitution was written for is no more so no reason at all not to remove the anachronism that is the 2nd amendment.

From the Declaration of Independence......... 

 

~ ~ ~ ~ ~

 

"That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness."

 

~ ~ ~ ~ ~

 

This is not a statement that applies to a specific country at a specific time. This is a statement that applies to ALL countries, at ALL TIMES. 

 

THIS is why the Second Amendment exists, and should continue to do so. 

 

The United States of America exists  because citizens living under an oppressive and tyrannical government......... were able to forcefully  break away from their. control, by force of arms. Having guns made this possible. If they hadn't had guns, it would NOT have been possible! 

 

THIS is why the Second Amendment exists, and should continue to do so. 

 

. 

 

Ultimately, THIS lesson......... 

 

"Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it." - - George Santayana

 

........... is far more important........... 

 

Than THIS lesson........... 

 

"Well, the founding fathers are dead and the world they lived in is no more. That means the country this constitution was written for is no more so no reason at all not to remove the anachronism that is the 2nd amendment." 

 

~ ~ ~ ~ ~ 

 

Is there a time when the Second Amendment should be retired? Sure there is. 

 

As soon as a goverment is unable to turn tyrannical.......... incapable of it!.............. THEN the Second Amendment can be retired!

 

But until that time............ the principle expressed above from the Declaration of Independence........... should and must remain Supreme. All other considerations should and must remain secondary to THAT ONE! 

 

Otherwise......... 

 

"Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it." 

 

And those of us who have noticed that our government is getting progressively more tyrannical, not less............ take this pretty seriously! 

 

Cheers! 

 

 

 

 

Edited May 26, 2022 by KanchanaburiGuy
Corrected the quote and the attribution.

[Phoenix Rising]

57 minutes ago, KanchanaburiGuy said:

From the Declaration of Independence......... 

 

~ ~ ~ ~ ~

 

"That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness."

 

~ ~ ~ ~ ~

 

This is not a statement that applies to a specific country at a specific time. This is a statement that applies to ALL countries, at ALL TIMES. 

 

THIS is why the Second Amendment exists, and should continue to do so. 

 

The United States of America exists  because citizens living under an oppressive and tyrannical government......... were able to forcefully  break away from their. control, by force of arms. Having guns made this possible. If they hadn't had guns, it would NOT have been possible! 

 

THIS is why the Second Amendment exists, and should continue to do so. 

 

. 

 

Ultimately, THIS lesson......... 

 

"Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it." - - George Santayana

 

........... is far more important........... 

 

Than THIS lesson........... 

 

"Well, the founding fathers are dead and the world they lived in is no more. That means the country this constitution was written for is no more so no reason at all not to remove the anachronism that is the 2nd amendment." 

 

~ ~ ~ ~ ~ 

 

Is there a time when the Second Amendment should be retired? Sure there is. 

 

As soon as a goverment is unable to turn tyrannical.......... incapable of it!.............. THEN the Second Amendment can be retired!

 

But until that time............ the principle expressed above from the Declaration of Independence........... should and must remain Supreme. All other considerations should and must remain secondary to THAT ONE! 

 

Otherwise......... 

 

"Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it." 

 

And those of us who have noticed that our government is getting progressively more tyrannical, not less............ take this pretty seriously! 

 

Cheers! 

 

 

 

 

Made sense way back when muskets were the most potent firearms around. But any pot bellied NRA card carrier with an AR-15 who thinks he and his buddies can fight an army with satellites, killer drones, fighter jets, tanks etc. is completely delusional.

[Jack100]

This Ted Cruz guy looks interesting . I wonder what his views are on abortion ?

[Neeranam]

4 hours ago, Walker88 said:

We have a Party in the US that hates democracy and the entire Constitution, except for one single Amendment. That party would destroy everything the country could and should be, so long as they retain power and control. That party calls guns and gun ownership 'patriotic', when that party is the polar opposite of patriotism. They are jingoists, not patriots who believe in real democracy and freedom.

 

Some members of that Party actually sent out Christmas cards and Easter greetings where their entire family, including kids, stood in front of symbols of those holidays while brandishing the same style of weapons this latest killer used ripping apart children's bodies.

 

I have my doubts there is a cure or a vaccine for that kind of sickness.

You, like Biden, are turning this tragedy into a political narrative. 

Let's all agree, whichever side of the fence, that guns should be banned immediately. #kidslivesmatter

[Phoenix Rising]

5 minutes ago, Jack100 said:

This Ted Cruz guy looks interesting . I wonder what his views are on abortion ?

As this person is devoid of principles and morals his views are completely controlled by the latest polling data from the MAGA crowd.

[Neeranam]

1 hour ago, KanchanaburiGuy said:

From the Declaration of Independence......... 

 

~ ~ ~ ~ ~

 

"That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness."

 

~ ~ ~ ~ ~

 

This is not a statement that applies to a specific country at a specific time. This is a statement that applies to ALL countries, at ALL TIMES. 

 

THIS is why the Second Amendment exists, and should continue to do so. 

 

The United States of America exists  because citizens living under an oppressive and tyrannical government......... were able to forcefully  break away from their. control, by force of arms. Having guns made this possible. If they hadn't had guns, it would NOT have been possible! 

 

THIS is why the Second Amendment exists, and should continue to do so. 

 

. 

 

Ultimately, THIS lesson......... 

 

"Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it." - - George Santayana

 

........... is far more important........... 

 

Than THIS lesson........... 

 

"Well, the founding fathers are dead and the world they lived in is no more. That means the country this constitution was written for is no more so no reason at all not to remove the anachronism that is the 2nd amendment." 

 

~ ~ ~ ~ ~ 

 

Is there a time when the Second Amendment should be retired? Sure there is. 

 

As soon as a goverment is unable to turn tyrannical.......... incapable of it!.............. THEN the Second Amendment can be retired!

 

But until that time............ the principle expressed above from the Declaration of Independence........... should and must remain Supreme. All other considerations should and must remain secondary to THAT ONE! 

 

Otherwise......... 

 

"Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it." 

 

And those of us who have noticed that our government is getting progressively more tyrannical, not less............ take this pretty seriously! 

 

Cheers! 

 

 

 

 

It's not that complicated. 

 

Why can an 18 year old not buy beer but buy a machine gun? 

 

Simple question, can anyone answer it?

 

[Phoenix Rising]

Just now, Neeranam said:

You, like Biden, are turning this tragedy into a political narrative. 

Let's all agree, whichever side of the fence, that guns should be banned immediately. #kidslivesmatter

I disagree. A blanket ban on all guns would never fly, baby steps are needed. Start with banning and confiscating assault weapons and greatly enhance background check requirements. In addition there should be a requirement for a gun permit, complete with training and certification.

[Neeranam]

In Scotland, we had one similar case in 1996, I think, Dunblane.

Semi-automatic weapons were banned and we haven't had another incident since. 

In the US, this is the 27th similar tragedy this year! 

This is cult-like behavior by some citing a 300 year old amendment. 

[jvs]

7 minutes ago, Phoenix Rising said:

I disagree. A blanket ban on all guns would never fly, baby steps are needed. Start with banning and confiscating assault weapons and greatly enhance background check requirements. In addition there should be a requirement for a gun permit, complete with training and certification.

Start raising the age limit?Would be a great stride forward.

[Neeranam]

A quarter of teenagers in the US are on psychotropic drugs.

This, as well as gun sales, should be addressed. 

 

A total of 24.9% of youth had received mental health services during the past 12 months

https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamapediatrics/fullarticle/1465762

[LarrySR]

"Have the teachers carry guns" is the recommendation of the Texas governor.

Around 3.7 million teachers.

What could possibly go wrong with putting nearly 4 million guns in schools?

[Berkshire]

25 minutes ago, Phoenix Rising said:

I disagree. A blanket ban on all guns would never fly, baby steps are needed. Start with banning and confiscating assault weapons and greatly enhance background check requirements. In addition there should be a requirement for a gun permit, complete with training and certification.

The gun lobby has been beating into gun owners heads forever that if they give in to any gun legislation--and I mean, ANY gun legislation--the gov will eventually take their guns.  That's why no sensible gun law can pass.  Even the background checks that 90% of Americans support.  It's the belief that if they give in to this, the dems will want more and more until finally, guns are outlawed.  This is why the gun problem in the USA is impossible to solve.  

[The Hammer2021]

Nine killed last  week - mass murder in the  USA is weekly news-

Broad daylight - shopping malls, schools, campuses, sports grounds, streets, suburbs....everywhere it seems is a potential  firing zone and anybody of any age, colour or sex is a target.

'The right to bear arms' directly contradicts the right to safety  and security and the sick  thing  is the ' The 2nd ammendment (right to massacre ') crowd all hide under the banner of 'right to life' in their  opposition  to abortion.

[Phoenix Rising]

1 hour ago, Berkshire said:

The gun lobby has been beating into gun owners heads forever that if they give in to any gun legislation--and I mean, ANY gun legislation--the gov will eventually take their guns.  That's why no sensible gun law can pass.  Even the background checks that 90% of Americans support.  It's the belief that if they give in to this, the dems will want more and more until finally, guns are outlawed.  This is why the gun problem in the USA is impossible to solve.  

I'm afraid you're right. That sick gun cult will continue to prevent the (mostly) spineless GOP politicians from ever agreeing to any restrictions.

 

[Bkk Brian]

9 minutes ago, KanchanaburiGuy said:

You say all that and criticize, but I wonder who you are comparing us to. You see, the size of the country matters here. It matters because comparing a single country with 330 million people............ to one with only 10 million or 20 million or even 80 million........... really isn't an honest comparison. Size and complexity changes things!

 

The United States is the third most populous country in the world. The closest to it in size are Indonesia (278 million), Pakistan (226 million), Brazil and Nigeria (both having 215 million). (All stats from worldometer.com)

 

The United States has roughly 334 million. 

 

The next nearest entity on the  larger side would be the European Union, at approximately 450 million. It's not one country, but can still be viewed as a single entity, for the sake of comparison. 

 

Now, of the four countries closest to us in size---

 

Indonesia,

Pakistan,

Nigeria, 

Brazil

 

---which of them would you consider LESS VIOLENT than America?

 

Sure, they all have good spots and bad spots, just like America. But overall, if you were going to be blindly taken to any spot in these countries............ is there one you'd choose over America?

 

Is there one you believe you'd be less likely to be harmed, than in America? 

 

And how about the EU, with their 450 million people? We know there are lots of safe places to go in the EU. But aren't there lots of dodgy places, too? Aren't there countries where crime still runs rampant? Violence is still common? Your safely is still in question? Aren't there still pockets within the "safe" countries....... where this is still true, too? 

 

If you look at the EU en toto, is it REALLY better than the U.S.? Or is it just the EU doesn't get the negative publicity the U.S. gets?

 

Or is it a compartmentalization thing? What happens in Germany is a German thing; what happens in Holland is a Dutch thing; while what happens in Texas gets the bigger label: It's a U.S. thing! ----and the German and Dutch things never quote get interpreted  as "EU things?" 

 

So, while you're criticizing the U.S. so freely for so many things........... what's your point of reference? Who, in your opinion, is large enough to be dealing with our kinds of problems........ is doing it any better? 

 

Cheers!

Thats why you use gun deaths per capita and the US has the enviable position of being second in the world only to Brazil. Quite something eh

 

https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/gun-deaths-by-country

[candide]

3 hours ago, Neeranam said:

It's not that complicated. 

 

Why can an 18 year old not buy beer but buy a machine gun? 

 

Simple question, can anyone answer it?

 

Easy. As they wouldn't stand alcohol, they would not be able to shoot straight and would miss their target! ????

[Jingthing]

New reports saying the gunman was in the school for 40 to 60 minutes not 30 which was bad enough. I don't get it. Something really stinks.

[richard_smith237]

5 hours ago, KanchanaburiGuy said:

This is not a statement that applies to a specific country at a specific time. This is a statement that applies to ALL countries, at ALL TIMES. 

 

THIS is why the Second Amendment exists, and should continue to do so. 

 

The United States of America exists  because citizens living under an oppressive and tyrannical government......... were able to forcefully  break away from their. control, by force of arms. Having guns made this possible. If they hadn't had guns, it would NOT have been possible! 

 

THIS is why the Second Amendment exists, and should continue to do so. 

 

. 

 

Ultimately, THIS lesson......... 

 

"Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it." - - George Santayana

Back in December 1791 ... the ‘tyrannical oppressive government' had nothing more than guns and cannons.

 

Using your extremely poorly thought out logic todays populace should obtain some seriously advanced weaponry....   (RPG’s ?...  Tanks anyone ?)

 

You also have commented how the American Military (Government) is not equipped to handle a war with its population because many own guns... 

 

It always strikes me how those who so strongly believe in the right to bear arms do so from such a fundamentally flawed platform that their intelligence and sense of reasoning can so easy be brought into question.

 

...... The very people who ‘want’ guns are the very same who should be kept as far from them as possible !!!!.... 

 

 

 

[richard_smith237]

4 hours ago, Phoenix Rising said:

Made sense way back when muskets were the most potent firearms around. But any pot bellied NRA card carrier with an AR-15 who thinks he and his buddies can fight an army with satellites, killer drones, fighter jets, tanks etc. is completely delusional.

So much so that these are the very people who should be kept away from guns....  

 

 

IF the excuse of ‘gun lovers’ was that they like guns because they love shootin’ s#it’ then fine, they’d appear less stupid... but when they start quoting their rights, amendments its obvious they have nothing better to use as a justification to own something that provides no practical use beyond killing someone.....  

... Guns are fun...   so are RPG’s and Grenades, so is a Mortar, So is a Barrett M82.....  But why should any non-military person be allowed to carry any of these ???....    Guns are just a thin end of that wedge. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[candide]

3 hours ago, Neeranam said:

A quarter of teenagers in the US are on psychotropic drugs.

This, as well as gun sales, should be addressed. 

 

A total of 24.9% of youth had received mental health services during the past 12 months

https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamapediatrics/fullarticle/1465762

You are raising a legitimate concern.

 

However, it seems you read the stats wrong. It is  24.9% of youth with mental disorder symptoms which received mental health services.

I also did not find mention of your other claim that a quarter of teenagers are on psychotropic drug.

[KanchanaburiGuy]

48 minutes ago, Bkk Brian said:

Thats why you use gun deaths per capita and the US has the enviable position of being second in the world only to Brazil. Quite something eh

 

https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/gun-deaths-by-country

I wonder............ did you even look at the stats in your own link? 

 

The U.S. is NOT second behind Brazil in deaths per 100k. We're TENTH. 

 

And if you scroll down to where it breaks out deaths overall from suicides........... we are one of only two countries where suicides exceed homicides (by about 60/40). Montenegro is the other. 

 

If you look at JUST firearm-death homicides per 100k---not including suicides---we are actually about 15th. 

 

Lastly, if you go back to total firearm deaths per 100k.......... the list where we are tenth (NOT second! ????????????).......... You'll see that the country one positions above us has a rate that is roughly 25% higher than ours. And as you continue up the list, the gap gets wider and wider! 

 

Thanks for providing the link. It gave me a chance to see that you apparently didn't even bother to look at it yourself! ????????????

 

Cheers! 

[richard_smith237]

6 minutes ago, KanchanaburiGuy said:

I wonder............ did you even look at the stats in your own link? 

 

The U.S. is NOT second behind Brazil in deaths per 100k. We're TENTH. 

 

And if you scroll down to where it breaks out deaths overall from suicides........... we are one of only two countries where suicides exceed homicides (by about 60/40). Montenegro is the other. 

 

If you look at JUST firearm-death homicides per 100k---not including suicides---we are actually about 15th. 

 

Lastly, if you go back to total firearm deaths per 100k.......... the list where we are tenth (NOT second! ????????????).......... You'll see that the country one positions above us has a rate that is roughly 25% higher than ours. And as you continue up the list, the gap gets wider and wider! 

 

Thanks for providing the link. It gave me a chance to see that you apparently didn't even bother to look at it yourself! ????????????

 

Cheers! 

When comparing nations considered ‘developed’ the US stats for ‘gun related deaths per 100,000 of population’ are an utter atrocity....  

 

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_firearm-related_death_rate#

 

US compared to the next 35 ‘developed’ nations.. Gun ownership vs deaths. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[KanchanaburiGuy]

17 minutes ago, richard_smith237 said:

Back in December 1791 ... the ‘tyrannical oppressive government' had nothing more than guns and cannons.

 

Using your extremely poorly thought out logic todays populace should obtain some seriously advanced weaponry....   (RPG’s ?...  Tanks anyone ?)

 

You also have commented how the American Military (Government) is not equipped to handle a war with its population because many own guns... 

 

It always strikes me how those who so strongly believe in the right to bear arms do so from such a fundamentally flawed platform that their intelligence and sense of reasoning can so easy be brought into question.

 

...... The very people who ‘want’ guns are the very same who should be kept as far from them as possible !!!!.... 

 

 

 

Funny. Along with my statements, I gave examples of how they have already been proven true. But you ignored d those. Why is that? 

 

(Shhh, nevermind. I already know why! ????????????)

 

Instead, you chose to be insulting, instead, while not providing a single example of your superior logic and intellect. 

 

I gave three examples of opponents who beat us with "wholly inadequate arms"...... against our sophisticated military might: Afghanistan, Iraq, and Vietnam. 

 

Or perhaps you'd like to explain why you think we hahaha WON in those severely imbalanced conflicts, instead, hmmm? 

 

Cheers!