‘America is killing itself’: world reacts with horror and incomprehension to Texas shooting

[jvs]

Maybe a little bit of topic but i am going to ask it anyway,to the Americans here.

If,just if,the law was changed and you are no longer allowed to own a gun,would you comply and hand in your gun?

How would it change your life?

Remember if.

[2 is 1]

In USA guns are so "holy" that even innocent kids dead dont matter nothing! Republicans answear to problem is "we need armed security in schools" or give guns to teachers! So more guns! Republicans get so much money from guns lobbyist , they decide they opinion! Constitutional right to get killed in school, church or any other place where lunatic gunman decide to start shooting! Texas they sell over 1,6 million weapon in 2021 and if you are over 21 you can carry gun whit you almost in any place! How crazy is that! 

Edited May 26, 2022 by 2 is 1

[mikeymike100]

6 hours ago, PoodThaiMaiDai said:

I totally agree.

I also totally agree!

[moogradod]

2 hours ago, Lacessit said:

Motorcycle helmets too? That was another touchy subject.

 

"Putting up" with rules that are designed to keep one out of hospitals or a coffin seems sensible to me, that goes back to my remark about ability to delude oneself.

You are too polite. Sensible ? I would opt for "should not be allowed". The crucial point here is that nobody should be hurt or badly affected by my actions. As long as this is not the case it should be my decision alone if I kill myself and what substances I eat and drink. If I do not embark on a jolly ride in my car after a hefty mouthful of Ayahuasca or similar.

[richard_smith237]

6 hours ago, PoodThaiMaiDai said:

I am not a gun nut but I do have a few weapons at my home to protect myself and my family.

au contraire....    

 

 

 

[PoodThaiMaiDai]

18 minutes ago, richard_smith237 said:

au contraire....    

 

 

 

You know nothing about me so this is just stupid statement.

 

There were 45,222 gun deaths in the USA in 2020 (counting suicide).

 

The population was approximately 331,449,281.

 

Do the math.

 

.00013644

 

or 00.01%

 

More people are dying in car accidents and due to tobacco use annually.

 

Where is the outrage?

Edited May 26, 2022 by PoodThaiMaiDai

[GarryP]

6 hours ago, Lacessit said:

The first sentence of your post is one of the most tired arguments put forward by the gun lobby.

 

If it is an automatic jail sentence for possessing an unlicensed firearm, criminals will be very wary about having them, let alone using them. The average penalty in Australia is one year's jail, and that increases exponentially for a previously-convicted felon, no matter what the crime before was.

 

Do you have the weapons in your home securely locked away? Not much use in a home invasion, are they? You think a burglar is going to wait around for you to access them? If they are readily accessible, how do you deal with one of your children accidentally shooting themselves?

 

Sure, the Second Amendment is not going away, but it could be amended sensibly. It started as an amendment itself, right?

The current interpretation of the Second Amendment is totally against the original intent. It has been twisted so much to support private gun ownership. The gun rights advocates must have been creaming themselves when the Supreme Court ruled on the District of Columbia vs Heller in 2008. 

[billd766]

3 hours ago, KhunLA said:

Another firearms expert.  That's the AK 47 ammo.

M16 is .223/5.56mm

It is so easy when you know what you are talking about.

 

You obviously did not understand what I wrote. Perhaps you did not do any research (it doesn't take long on Google) or perhaps it is you that is the "firearms expert".

 

AK 47 ammunition as follows.

 

7.62 x 39mm rounds
The AK-47 fires 7.62mm diameter bullets using a 39mm long cartridge, usually referred to as 7.62 x 39mm rounds. These are significantly less powerful than the 7.62mm NATO bullets which are fired using a larger, 51mm long, cartridge, usually referred to as 7.62 x 51mm rounds.

 

https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=ak+47+ammunition+caliber&sxsrf=ALiCzsbG4iodbfi9DXacYK2nW13iYCIh7g%3A1653564396459&source=hp&ei=7GOPYuKWGfDg7_UPxJWw8A4&iflsig=AJiK0e8AAAAAYo9x_C3PLkpDM6KuAO0QPhj1HRn0r8zI&oq=AK+47+ammunition&gs_lcp=Cgdnd3Mtd2l6EAEYATIFCAAQgAQyBQgAEIAEMgYIABAeEBYyBggAEB4QFjIGCAAQHhAWMgYIABAeEBYyBggAEB4QFjIGCAAQHhAWOgQIIxAnOgQIABBDOgsILhCABBDHARDRAzoLCC4QgAQQxwEQowI6BQguEIAEOgoIABCABBCHAhAUUABY-01gyWloAXAAeACAAYECiAHiHpIBBDItMTeYAQCgAQE&sclient=gws-wiz

 

 

The Self Loading Rifle issued to the British forces was as follows.

 

https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=slr+rifle+details&sxsrf=ALiCzsaqTRJvCqg9RSiChhl6lahhWHHIXQ%3A1653564147150&source=hp&ei=82KPYrm4BrTd7_UP4KiP6Ac&iflsig=AJiK0e8AAAAAYo9xA3n7wAwRsyhPhR0GOJWMmzeoYt2B&oq=SLR+rifle&gs_lcp=Cgdnd3Mtd2l6EAEYBTIFCAAQgAQyBQgAEIAEMgUIABCABDIFCAAQgAQyBQgAEIAEMgUIABCABDIFCAAQgAQyBQgAEIAEMgUIABCABDIFCAAQgAQ6BAgjECc6CwguEIAEEMcBENEDOg4ILhCABBDHARDRAxDUAjoFCC4QgAQ6CAgAEIAEEMkDUABYoFdg14IBaAFwAHgAgAGKAogBvRGSAQMyLTmYAQCgAQE&sclient=gws-wiz

 

It used standard NATO ammunition of this size.

 

 

L1A1 Self-Loading Rifle.
Rifle, 7.62 mm, L1A1 (SLR)
Length    1,143 mm (45 in)
Barrel length    554.4 mm (21.7 in)
Cartridge    7.62×51mm NATO

[KhunLA]

13 minutes ago, billd766 said:

It is so easy when you know what you are talking about.

 

You obviously did not understand what I wrote. Perhaps you did not do any research (it doesn't take long on Google) or perhaps it is you that is the "firearms expert".

 

AK 47 ammunition as follows.

 

7.62 x 39mm rounds
The AK-47 fires 7.62mm diameter bullets using a 39mm long cartridge, usually referred to as 7.62 x 39mm rounds. These are significantly less powerful than the 7.62mm NATO bullets which are fired using a larger, 51mm long, cartridge, usually referred to as 7.62 x 51mm rounds.

 

https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=ak+47+ammunition+caliber&sxsrf=ALiCzsbG4iodbfi9DXacYK2nW13iYCIh7g%3A1653564396459&source=hp&ei=7GOPYuKWGfDg7_UPxJWw8A4&iflsig=AJiK0e8AAAAAYo9x_C3PLkpDM6KuAO0QPhj1HRn0r8zI&oq=AK+47+ammunition&gs_lcp=Cgdnd3Mtd2l6EAEYATIFCAAQgAQyBQgAEIAEMgYIABAeEBYyBggAEB4QFjIGCAAQHhAWMgYIABAeEBYyBggAEB4QFjIGCAAQHhAWOgQIIxAnOgQIABBDOgsILhCABBDHARDRAzoLCC4QgAQQxwEQowI6BQguEIAEOgoIABCABBCHAhAUUABY-01gyWloAXAAeACAAYECiAHiHpIBBDItMTeYAQCgAQE&sclient=gws-wiz

 

 

The Self Loading Rifle issued to the British forces was as follows.

 

https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=slr+rifle+details&sxsrf=ALiCzsaqTRJvCqg9RSiChhl6lahhWHHIXQ%3A1653564147150&source=hp&ei=82KPYrm4BrTd7_UP4KiP6Ac&iflsig=AJiK0e8AAAAAYo9xA3n7wAwRsyhPhR0GOJWMmzeoYt2B&oq=SLR+rifle&gs_lcp=Cgdnd3Mtd2l6EAEYBTIFCAAQgAQyBQgAEIAEMgUIABCABDIFCAAQgAQyBQgAEIAEMgUIABCABDIFCAAQgAQyBQgAEIAEMgUIABCABDIFCAAQgAQ6BAgjECc6CwguEIAEEMcBENEDOg4ILhCABBDHARDRAxDUAjoFCC4QgAQ6CAgAEIAEEMkDUABYoFdg14IBaAFwAHgAgAGKAogBvRGSAQMyLTmYAQCgAQE&sclient=gws-wiz

 

It used standard NATO ammunition of this size.

 

 

L1A1 Self-Loading Rifle.
Rifle, 7.62 mm, L1A1 (SLR)
Length 1,143 mm (45 in)
Barrel length 554.4 mm (21.7 in)
Cartridge 7.62×51mm NATO

You may want to reread you own post, as you stated the AR15 & M16 use the 7.62 ammo.

I owned an AK, and Ruger Mini 14 (.223/5.56mm), and have shot a M16, so I know what ammo they use.

 

You apparently do NOT.

 

Actually, I do consider myself a firearms expert.  Had an FLL (USA) for decades.

Edited May 26, 2022 by KhunLA

[Lacessit]

4 hours ago, KanchanaburiGuy said:

Seriously? 

 

Australia has approx. 26 million people. I could probably block out multiple blocks of 26 million people in the United States where there have been zero mass shootings, in the same time frame. 

 

26 million people = 1 country

330 million people = 1 country 

 

First, comparing the two as equals just because each happens to be "one country"........... is not particularly honest. 

 

Second, when Australia started their crackdown............ were they dealing with a situation where the "gun problem" was so bad that there were roughly 15% more guns than people? 

 

Third, did the population of Australia at the time have a life-long belief---were they indoctrinated  to the idea---that gun ownership is a RIGHT for self-defense, and a RESPONSIBILITY for securing the nation from enemies, both from within and without? 

 

. 

 

See, if Australia had been dealing with a population that is almost 13 times larger............ 

 

............ a scale of "gun problem" significantly greater than it actually had (15% more guns than people?) .......... 

 

.......... and had been indoctrinated to the idea---culturally and throughout their education---that gun ownership is a RIGHT ........... 

 

............ the results in Australia might have been very, very different! 

 

. 

 

Apples and Oranges.

Apples and Oranges. 

 

The evidence of one..........

has virtually nothing to do with..... 

the realities of the other!

 

Apples and Oranges! 

 

It is not at all unrealistic to believe that because of differences in size, scope, and scale............ because of differences in culture and expectations....... Australia could succeed in ways that America simply never can! 

 

Cheers! 

 

 

 

Not particularly honest? Your post reeks of dishonesty and delusion.

You could probably block out 26 million people where there have been no mass shootings? OK, show me.

Australians have guns. They just don't have guns that are capable of mass slaughter. Show me where the Second Amendment says it's OK to own a M1 Abrams tank to defend oneself, taking it to a logical conclusion.

On Friday, the NRA will hold its annual meeting in Texas about 400 km away. Abbott, Ted Cruz and Donald Trump will be guest speakers. If that doesn't tell you how sick America is, nothing will.

[Isaan sailor]

3 hours ago, jvs said:

Maybe a little bit of topic but i am going to ask it anyway,to the Americans here.

If,just if,the law was changed and you are no longer allowed to own a gun,would you comply and hand in your gun?

How would it change your life?

Remember if.

I wouldn’t hang around.  And I didn’t.  I live here now.

Edited May 26, 2022 by Isaan sailor

[Lacessit]

1 hour ago, PoodThaiMaiDai said:

You know nothing about me so this is just stupid statement.

 

There were 45,222 gun deaths in the USA in 2020 (counting suicide).

 

The population was approximately 331,449,281.

 

Do the math.

 

.00013644

 

or 00.01%

 

More people are dying in car accidents and due to tobacco use annually.

 

Where is the outrage?

Classic look over there post.

When you get in a car to drive, or light a cigarette, as a person you accept the risk of those actions.

I understand children in most civilized countries are not allowed to drive a car, or smoke. Most civilized countries can prevent their children from being slaughtered by a nutter with an automatic weapon as well.

It's not a matter of percentages, it's about innocent kids being sacrificed on the altar of a national paranoia.

What's next, you'll join the truthers that are denying Sandy Hook ever happened?

[KhunLA]

1 hour ago, PoodThaiMaiDai said:

You know nothing about me so this is just stupid statement.

 

There were 45,222 gun deaths in the USA in 2020 (counting suicide).

 

The population was approximately 331,449,281.

 

Do the math.

 

.00013644

 

or 00.01%

 

More people are dying in car accidents and due to tobacco use annually.

 

Where is the outrage?

To add to your thoughts, of firearms deaths, 10,258 (2019 stats) were murders.  Most by people known to them.

https://ucr.fbi.gov/crime-in-the-u.s/2019/crime-in-the-u.s.-2019/tables/expanded-homicide-data-table-8.xls

[billd766]

21 minutes ago, KhunLA said:

You may want to reread you own post, as you stated the AR15 & M16 use the 7.62 ammo.

I owned an AK, and Ruger Mini 14 (.223/5.56mm), and have shot a M16, so I know what ammo they use.

 

You apparently do NOT.

 

Actually, I do consider myself a firearms expert.  Had an FLL (USA) for decades.

No I didn't. If you look at it carefully they are both in brackets and yes they are (or were in the case of the SLR) war weapons.

 

You are the one who talked about the AK47 and not me. I merely pointed out the difference in the 7.62 ammunition.

 

I have never claimed to be an expert in anything but if I do know what I am talking about I generally say so. You seem to enjoy nit picking and you are welcome to do so.

[moogradod]

There is a saying I do not remember from where I got it actually and I remember it only in German: "Ein Schwert zum töten, ein Schwert zum lebendigmachen". Roughly translated: "A sword to kill, a sword to make alive (vivid)". Might be from the world of Kendo.

 

I believe this has very many levels of meaning from an obvious course one down to subtle realms. One of the most obvious is that it is the intention that counts - how and when it is used - for good or bad. For agression or protection.

 

I could imagine that this is an argument of the NRA (I am as far from the NRA that could be) and they stress the effect of possible protection as first priority. But after all it is the human mind that is in the center of it all. I doubt that all NRA members are impeccable in their decisions and character, too.

 

But it does not help: It is not a law that can help with this problem, only slightly influence it. The effort must lie on becoming a "better" human then maybe in the end hand hold weapons would become even obsolete at all and the problem is finally really solved. Until then it will stay all the time.

[pacovl46]

12 hours ago, DezLez said:

The police did kill him!

I know! He got off the easy way! He should've rot away in prison where other inmates could have had their way with him, repeatedly, every day....

[pacovl46]

10 hours ago, Darksidedude said:

No way, absolute waste of space and money to have him alive best thing is that he is gone for good

Way too easy! He should've gone through life in prison with other inmates having their way with him on a daily basis and really make him suffer for what he did! 

[Megasin1]

9 hours ago, Lacessit said:

Dumb or stubborn, take your pick.

 

I'm plumbing for dumb, they've already been all over the news with their favourite saying and it thoroughly identifies their stupidity, because yes the guns they have access to are specifically designed to kill people and also they would find it a lot lot harder to carry out mass murder with a stick........

[Slip]

51 minutes ago, Isaan sailor said:

I wouldn’t hang around.  And I didn’t.  I live here now.

Do you legally own firearms here now?

[KhunLA]

56 minutes ago, billd766 said:

No I didn't. If you look at it carefully they are both in brackets and yes they are (or were in the case of the SLR) war weapons.

 

You are the one who talked about the AK47 and not me. I merely pointed out the difference in the 7.62 ammunition.

 

I have never claimed to be an expert in anything but if I do know what I am talking about I generally say so. You seem to enjoy nit picking and you are welcome to do so.

If that spin works for you , than as long as that makes you feel better, I happy for you  ... ????

[OJAS]

11 hours ago, superal said:

America , the land of the free .  To me and others it could be so much better if it sorted out its political systems . Gun lobbyists seem to dictate the firearms laws ." Having a gun is our constitutional right ", is widely backed . The Sky news just reported that on average 22 children a day are hit by gunshot . On average 5 children die every day  . Every year in excess of 117,000 people are shot with over 40,000 dying .  Theses are staggering stats and the USA government should be ashamed . Time for the American people to speak up and change this gun culture which will take a few years to do but gun sales need to be restricted to those who have been background checked and have a legitimate reason for gun ownership . 

And yet the UK FCDO advice for Brits intending to travel to the States downplays the risks which they run on account of lax gun controls through just a passing reference to terrorism near the end.

 

https://www.gov.uk/foreign-travel-advice/usa

 

Whereas the State Department advice for Americans intending to travel to the UK, on the other hand, does not pull its punches about the perceived risks which they supposedly run through terrorism!

 

https://travel.state.gov/content/travel/en/traveladvisories/traveladvisories/united-kingdom-travel-advisory.html

 

It strikes me that American nationals are in much less physical danger in the UK than they are in their home country! But, of course, we can't have the UK FCDO rocking the boat as regards the so-called "special relationship" between the USA and UK with travel advice for Brits planning to travel to the States, which is franker in tone and more on a par with the bleak State Department advice to Americans planning to travel to Blighty, can we?

 

 

[Lacessit]

I understand armed security guards and school shooter drills are commonplace in American schools, as well as metal detectors.

In Australia, maybe an unarmed security guard, no drills, no metal detectors. They are not needed, the Faraday school kidnappings were 50 years ago.

If Americans think their Second Amendment rights are more important than enabling their kids to attend school free of fear, IMO they are seriously <deleted> in the head.

[CharlieH]

Inappropriate remark and subsequent exchanges removed.

[PoodThaiMaiDai]

4 hours ago, Lacessit said:

Classic look over there post.

When you get in a car to drive, or light a cigarette, as a person you accept the risk of those actions.

I understand children in most civilized countries are not allowed to drive a car, or smoke. Most civilized countries can prevent their children from being slaughtered by a nutter with an automatic weapon as well.

It's not a matter of percentages, it's about innocent kids being sacrificed on the altar of a national paranoia.

What's next, you'll join the truthers that are denying Sandy Hook ever happened?

So no innocent people die from car accidents or second hand smoke?

 

Your argument is a reach.

 

So far you put a lot of words in my mouth that I never said.

 

I am not saying it does not happen. 

 

I am not saying anything for or against assault rifles.

 

I am talking guns in general.

Edited May 26, 2022 by PoodThaiMaiDai

[Lacessit]

10 minutes ago, PoodThaiMaiDai said:

So no innocent people die from car accidents or second hand smoke?

 

Your argument is a reach.

 

So far you put a lot of words in my mouth that I never said.

 

I am not saying it does not happen. 

 

I am not saying anything for or against assault rifles.

 

I am talking guns in general.

Of course innocent people die from secondhand smoke and car accidents. Having said that, those AFAIK are not deliberate actions.

 

Please provide an example of where I put words in your mouth.

 

Where I come from, not saying anything for or against assault rifles is called sitting on the fence.

 

If anyone is reaching with their arguments, it is you.  "Look over there" is a classic example of reach, when one has run out of anything sensible to say.

[arithai12]

5 hours ago, PoodThaiMaiDai said:

You know nothing about me so this is just stupid statement.

 

There were 45,222 gun deaths in the USA in 2020 (counting suicide).

 

The population was approximately 331,449,281.

 

Do the math.

 

.00013644

 

or 00.01%

 

More people are dying in car accidents and due to tobacco use annually.

 

Where is the outrage?

Well, we know something about you since you stated that your job had to do with police contracts in schools, that hardly makes you an unbiased person in this issue. As for statistics,

"Firearms became the leading cause of death for American children and teenagers in 2020, according to researchers who analyzed Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) data. ... Car accidents are now number two, while drug overdoses are number three."

This from the Time magazine, based on a research paper in the New England Journal of Medicine. An entirely different math form yours, perhaps because 10-year old kids don't die of tobacco use.

 

You have to accept that to us non-Americans the situation re: guns in your country is simply appalling. I read somewhere yesterday (CNN?) that there have been already more than 200 school attacks in the US just this year, defined as episodes with 4 or more injured or dead.

To suggest as you do that it is necessary to add more police in schools, or even that teachers should be armed as some senators say, might patch things up in the short term but the real issue is that Americans love weapons to an extent that we non-US find it hard to grasp. And that there is a huge market behind this. Until this mentality is fixed (not in my generation I suspect), the US will continue to have a huge problem.

 

I watched the documentary Bowling for Columbine 20 years ago, nothing has changed.

[chubby]

11 hours ago, spidermike007 said:

My sense of it is that America is irrevocably broken. I do not see how it can rescue itself, from itself. It is a nearly dysfunction society, and it reminds me alot of the late 5th century Western Roman empire, before the Visigoths, the Huns and Aloric trashed Rome. I think America is finished. It just does not know it yet. 

https://twitter.com/radleybalko/status/1529679652154920960#m

 

Uvalde is a town of just 16,000 people. But it apparently has a SWAT team.

We’re regularly told small towns need SWAT teams so they can quickly respond to events just like this. The killer was in the building for an hour.
--
I found the Facebook page of the Uvalde Police Department. It is very interesting and does not conjure a feeling of safety or wellness. facebook.com/uvaldepd/photos…

[ozimoron]

For those blaming police defunding for these school massacres:

 

Indeed, additional reports appear to show not only did police not storm the school, for reasons yet unknown, they appear to have prevented desperate parents from doing anything to help save their children, even using force, including a taser, to stop them. And in one case (below,) from the account of one of the children who survived published by CBS affiliate KENS5, police action may have led to the death of one of the students.

 

https://www.rawstory.com/uvalde-police/

[Jingthing]

Cancun Cruz owned

 

 

[bbko]

America is and had been sinking....PERIOD.