What can we learn from Depp-Heard case

[sanuk711]

.

[jvs]

I am learning nothing new,i have never put up with any drama and i never will.

Maybe a little bit for me to learn here,do not ever become famous but i think i have

very little to worry about there.

[smutcakes]

1 hour ago, OneMoreFarang said:

Don't pretend people are guilty only because someone accuses them.

 

If person A thinks person B assaulted them then person A should go to the police, preferably right away after it happened. If there is evidence then person B will be prosecuted. And if there is enough evidence then person B will be punished.

 

And until there is a verdict then stay with the long tradition that someone is innocent until proven guilty.

 

The current drama, and many others, wouldn't exist if people would look at facts and not just accusations. If Amber had evidence that Johnny hit her then she should have told the police. 

But that is not what she did. Instead she told everybody what a bad guy he is and the media reported it and Johnny was suddenly the bad guy and he lost his jobs and his income. All because of accusations.

It's time to reverse this crazy trend that accusations are enough to ruin someone else life - without any consequences for the accuser who makes up these accusations.

 

And additionally it's time that some people, especially feminists, learn, that there are male and female abusers and victims. It should be obvious but it seems many feminists still think if they just repeat often enough that all women always tell the truth that we should somehow believe them.

 

If those feminists want to move forward and if they want to be takes seriously in the future then I suggest they publish something like this: Amber obviously lied. She is guilty. Some woman do lie. Don't believe all of them. Listen to people who claim they have been abused, encourage them to go to the police. And let the justice system do it's job.

 

 

 

Rapists and abusers of men and women accross the world rejoice at reading views like yours.

[Jaybott]

2 hours ago, jacko45k said:

 

Some cash went up in smoke over all this dirty linen.

Is that pun intended?

[KhunLA]

Don't  believe every (any) women.

[OneMoreFarang]

41 minutes ago, smutcakes said:

Rapists and abusers of men and women accross the world rejoice at reading views like yours.

That's interesting. Can you explain that please.

 

Because if person A abuses person B then B can go to the police and report this abuse. And then hopefully the abuser will be prosecuted and punished. Isn't that the way it's supposed to be?

And if a person does not go to the police and later claims he or she was abused should we believe that without any evidence?

 

Personally I think abusers should be punished.

And I think accused abusers should be treated like any other accused criminal. Innocent until proven guilty.

What exactly do you think is wrong with this?

[OneMoreFarang]

5 minutes ago, KhunLA said:

Don't  believe every (any) women.

Unless she has evidence for her accusations. 

[KhunLA]

2 minutes ago, OneMoreFarang said:

Unless she has evidence for her accusations. 

Anyone can punch themselves, then accuse a spouse of abuse.  Wouldn't call that evidence, but all that is needed to ruin someone's life.

 

Too many schizos out there.

[smutcakes]

Just now, OneMoreFarang said:

That's interesting. Can you explain that please.

 

Because if person A abuses person B then B can go to the police and report this abuse. And then hopefully the abuser will be prosecuted and punished. Isn't that the way it's supposed to be?

And if a person does not go to the police and later claims he or she was abused should we believe that without any evidence?

 

Personally I think abusers should be punished.

And I think accused abusers should be treated like any other accused criminal. Innocent until proven guilty.

What exactly do you think is wrong with this?

Because many abuses are perpeutated against people who have no voice, be they in poverty, immigrants, poor education, minority or persecuted groups or in areas/countries where there is no access no functioning police/justice systems. 

 

You also completely ignore the mental/emotional issues relating to abuse.

 

You think in Thailand as an example if a poor Thai was abused by a wealthy Thai and she went to report it to the police it would go anywhere? Of course it would not. 

 

Your views are like something out of the 1930's. There are obviosuly complicated issues and implications of falso accusations by a party but i generally think these are few and far between i comparison to abuse. 

 

As you well know cases of abuse are difficult to detect and to investigate and prove. Which of course all works in the abusers favour, as do views like yours.

 

[BritManToo]

What we can learn as men .......

Never marry, cohabit, or impregnate in the western world.

Let the women earn their own money and not live off us.

[KhunLA]

6 minutes ago, BritManToo said:

What we can learn as men .......

Never marry, cohabit, or impregnate in the western world.

Let the women earn their own money and not live off us.

Yep, Economics 101 ... worldwide, only invest what you can afford to lose & TRUST NOBODY.

[Excel]

Just now, KhunLA said:

Yep, Economics 101 ... worldwide, only invest what you can afford to lose & TRUST NOBODY.

You must be a very sad person to trust nobody. Very sad and bitter indeed.  I trusted my Mother and Father 100% whilst they were alive and was never let down once and many others fall into that category too, relatives and friends. Perhaps your judgement is not to be trusted rather than the people. Of course one must be careful and diligent into whom to place ones trust but to trust nobody is, as I said, very sad.

[Iamfalang]

6 hours ago, Hummin said:

“If you are not sure, you are sure”!

words to live by.  

[BritManToo]

7 minutes ago, Excel said:

You must be a very sad person to trust nobody. Very sad and bitter indeed.  I trusted my Mother and Father 100% whilst they were alive and was never let down once and many others fall into that category too, relatives and friends. Perhaps your judgement is not to be trusted rather than the people. Of course one must be careful and diligent into whom to place ones trust but to trust nobody is, as I said, very sad.

I agree you can trust your parents.

But you can certainly never trust any woman you've ever had sex with, nor your children either.

 

I find trust vastly over-rated, it's not something that's necessary in my life.

I trusted a woman for 30 years, I would have been better off if I hadn't.

If you never trust, you will never be disappointed.

Edited June 3, 2022 by BritManToo

[Iamfalang]

6 minutes ago, Excel said:

You must be a very sad person to trust nobody. Very sad and bitter indeed.

it's a figure of speech.

 

trust no one!! trust nobody!!!  never trust anyone in a foreign land!!!  Am I saying don't even trust myself?   no, of course not.  

 

If we included all the exceptions, the quote would be 100 pages long.  wouldn't get the message across.

 

Never trust strangers!!   (include 10000000000 exceptions).    

 

 

[OneMoreFarang]

11 minutes ago, smutcakes said:

Because many abuses are perpeutated against people who have no voice, be they in poverty, immigrants, poor education, minority or persecuted groups or in areas/countries where there is no access no functioning police/justice systems. 

 

You also completely ignore the mental/emotional issues relating to abuse.

 

You think in Thailand as an example if a poor Thai was abused by a wealthy Thai and she went to report it to the police it would go anywhere? Of course it would not. 

 

Your views are like something out of the 1930's. There are obviosuly complicated issues and implications of falso accusations by a party but i generally think these are few and far between i comparison to abuse. 

 

As you well know cases of abuse are difficult to detect and to investigate and prove. Which of course all works in the abusers favour, as do views like yours.

Yes, this world is not fair. Rich and powerful people (male and female) get away with crimes especially against poor people. Correct.

 

But you will have noticed that that court case was in the USA with a strong MeToo movement and with millionaire celebrities on both sides. Amber could afford the best lawyers. And because she is a women the press is in general more on her side. But she still f$#ed it up. Because she lied and lied and lied. She didn't have to lie. She could have told the truth i.e. about her "donations". But she didn't. She lied. And her lawyers let her lie. Should we now pretend that is not important?

 

If anybody was abused physically then he or she should go to a doctor so that the doctor can record the details.

And if a person is mentally abused then walk away! That might be difficult for a poor person in some cases but in this case she had millions. She could just walk away. She could also see a psychologist. She could easily afford this. But she didn't. And it seems she didn't do any of this because she enjoyed her role of abusing him and getting away with it because she is a woman and who would accuse a woman?

 

Why is it so difficult for you and some other people to admit that Amber was no victim. She was the abuser. And if more feminists would admit that there are also female abusers then maybe they would get more support for all the women who are really abused. What men hate are those stupid "believe all women" statements. They don't help anybody.

[OneMoreFarang]

6 minutes ago, Iamfalang said:

it's a figure of speech.

 

trust no one!! trust nobody!!!  never trust anyone in a foreign land!!!  Am I saying don't even trust myself?   no, of course not.  

 

If we included all the exceptions, the quote would be 100 pages long.  wouldn't get the message across.

 

Never trust strangers!!   (include 10000000000 exceptions).    

Let's say you think you can trust 10 people.

Imagine you had a lottery ticket and that ticket just won 10 million USD.

How many of your trusted people would you trust to pick up that money for you and give to to you?

Few of us are trustworthy without limit. 

[smutcakes]

3 minutes ago, OneMoreFarang said:

Yes, this world is not fair. Rich and powerful people (male and female) get away with crimes especially against poor people. Correct.

 

But you will have noticed that that court case was in the USA with a strong MeToo movement and with millionaire celebrities on both sides. Amber could afford the best lawyers. And because she is a women the press is in general more on her side. But she still f$#ed it up. Because she lied and lied and lied. She didn't have to lie. She could have told the truth i.e. about her "donations". But she didn't. She lied. And her lawyers let her lie. Should we now pretend that is not important?

 

If anybody was abused physically then he or she should go to a doctor so that the doctor can record the details.

And if a person is mentally abused then walk away! That might be difficult for a poor person in some cases but in this case she had millions. She could just walk away. She could also see a psychologist. She could easily afford this. But she didn't. And it seems she didn't do any of this because she enjoyed her role of abusing him and getting away with it because she is a woman and who would accuse a woman?

 

Why is it so difficult for you and some other people to admit that Amber was no victim. She was the abuser. And if more feminists would admit that there are also female abusers then maybe they would get more support for all the women who are really abused. What men hate are those stupid "believe all women" statements. They don't help anybody.

I was not referring to this case specifically and from your post basically saying if someone is abused they should just go report it to the police.

 

I think you are massively trivilaizing and extremely complex issue and looking at it from a comfy middle class educated western view point of someone who has possibly never felt any abuse or discrimation throughout your life.

 

 

[newnative]

     Happy to see Depp win and I think it was the correct decision. But, it took a great deal of money and a long 7 week trial to refute the lies.  And, even though he won, he has ultimately lost.  Scary some of the things happening in America--so easy to do something minor and unintentional and be immediately cancelled.  Or, have someone dredge up murky memories from years ago in hopes of a payoff. Actors such as Frank Langella fired for 'inappropriate behavior' and essentially cancelled without having the opportunity to argue their case. 

    With Langella, he was rehearsing a love scene--both actors fully-clothed--and apparently he touched the actress's leg in a way which was not in the blocking of the scene.  He also told a joke the actress didn't like.  Actress took offense and he was fired.  If you're doing a love scene in a movie isn't there going to be some touching involved?  Did the actress not realize they were acting and playing characters, not themselves?  If they were rehearsing the scene they should have both been in character--he was and possibly was improvising a bit, she apparently was playing herself and not her character, hence she was offended.  But, was her character?  If a scene calls for an actor to slap an actress can he then be charged with assault if the actress decides she didn't like the slap?   If I were an actor I'd be scared to death that some actress that might not like me could easily find something flimsy with all that goes into making a movie and scream 'inappropriate behavior'.   Ditto for the regular work place where we now have to be aware of every little thing.  Hmm.  Can I tell Sally I like her new hair style?  Probably not.  Best to keep quiet.  

     Even scarier, three middle schoolers in Wisconsin are being charged by their school district with sexual harassment.  Their supposed crime?  Failing to refer to a fellow student as 'they and 'them'.  Apparently, the student wanted to be referred to in the plural and the students forgot.  Likely an expensive legal bill for the parents as they have hired a lawyer to try to fight for their children not to have a sexual harassment charge on their records.   Madness--but the lawyers must all be grinning widely at the state of things these days.

      

[AgMech Cowboy]

3 hours ago, Laughing Gravy said:

What can we learn from Depp-Heard case

Women like to play victim and will embellish just to try and put you down. If not embellishment, it's an outright lie. Don't believe all women, ever. Sadly, the liars make it bad for the truth tellers.  

[KhunLA]

42 minutes ago, Excel said:

You must be a very sad person to trust nobody. Very sad and bitter indeed.  I trusted my Mother and Father 100% whilst they were alive and was never let down once and many others fall into that category too, relatives and friends. Perhaps your judgement is not to be trusted rather than the people. Of course one must be careful and diligent into whom to place ones trust but to trust nobody is, as I said, very sad.

Mother & father .... really.  Apples & oranges, not that parents have never been accused of abuse.

 

Let me tell you about schizos, and this is a true story.  GF, p issed off at me, leaves rented townhouse, on pay phone, down the corner, crying for some reason, and man hating lesbo cop sees her.   Only Buddha know what she told her, I'm arrested for 'spousal abuse', which I thought was hilarious, since not married.  She so terrified to be near me, she waiting for me at home, when I get released.

 

Before hearing, we talk to DA, no evidence of, and she is not going to testify against me, so don't waste court's time.  He writes a doc, she signs it, and it basically states, can't sue DA if I kill her tomorrow.

 

Next argument with have, she hides my passport & keyboard, mind boggling.

 

I want her out of my life, so go to PoPo and ask them to stand by, as I ask her to leave my townhouse, if not, arrest her for defiant trespassing.  Want witness, to avoiding being accused of abuse again.  Officer follows me back home, I ask, and he agrees to be incognito.  Easy to enter townhouse, we stand in kitchen, him next to me but out of her line of sight.

 

I ask, "are you going to give me my PP or not",  she states 'no'.  I tell her, if not, I'm going to have you evicted, along with, 'if I do that, are you going to accuse me of abusing you again ?'

 

With that, she states, "LA, you know you've never hit me" .... we have a winner.

The officer steps out, and tell her she has to leave.  Expression on face ... priceless.

 

But wait there's more .... 

 

She says, can I have 1 more day here, as my brother is coming down now, as we speak, to pick me up and take me home, back to Pennsylvania, as living in Tennessee now.  I of course say no, and she repeats the request, stating just talked to them again a little while ago, half way here, and they'll be here in a few hours.

 

The phone rings .....  without thinking what she's about to say, she happy as hell, and I'm like 'what?'.   It's her mother, and her brother is in the hospital, getting his needed kidney transplant, as been waiting for years.  You mean he's not a few hours away from arriving here to get you .... ????

 

Me and the officer just look at each other and he starts laughing.  I couldn't say 'get the F out of here fast enough'.

 

But wait, there's more .... her 2 kids come down stairs as she's in a huff, yelling and cursing as she leaves.  Officer asks her ...  "Miss, you're not taking the kids" ..... "F 'em, he can have them, they like him more than me anyway"

 

Someone I lived with for about 5 yrs .... trust NOBODY.

Edited June 3, 2022 by KhunLA

[vinci]

first world problem and tax the rich

[StayinThailand2much]

"What can we learn from Depp-Heard case"

 

We can learn that it must be silly season, cause any news website I look at seems to have three or four articles about the story, plus two or three commentaries... Personally, I give a rat's a**. I have other problems in my life than whom to give so-and-so-many millions of my money.

Edited June 3, 2022 by StayinThailand2much

[OneMoreFarang]

31 minutes ago, smutcakes said:

I was not referring to this case specifically and from your post basically saying if someone is abused they should just go report it to the police.

 

I think you are massively trivilaizing and extremely complex issue and looking at it from a comfy middle class educated western view point of someone who has possibly never felt any abuse or discrimation throughout your life.

What is the alternative to reporting the abuse? Doing nothing? Post it on fb or tiktok? Or what?

Of course reporting abuse and getting the accuser charged is more difficult for some people than for others. 

But one thing is obvious: If there is no record then it's difficult to impossible to prosecute anybody.

These days basically everybody has a mobile phone with a camera. Make some selfies, if possible visit a doctor,  and report the crime!

[mikeymike100]

What I can't figure is that in the UK Johnny Depp lost, even though the trial in UK and the one in the USA were similar.

In the UK it seemed the Judge believed  all AH's evidence, but in the US case JD's legal team proved rather convincingly AH was lying about pretty much everything.

So were JD's legal council in the UK that bad, or was the Judge biased?

In the UK of course its never televised, even still cameras are not allowed in court, they only allow a sketch artist in, so maybe we will never know?

[Tropposurfer]

5 hours ago, Laughing Gravy said:

What can we learn from Depp-Heard case

 

Both are drama queens and don't mind airing their 'dirty linen' in public. Personally I found the whole saga nauseating.

I gave the saga almost-zero viewing time too so i speak form my gut and the short shots of them I have had.

My motivations for not spending much time viewing and digesting the sage of their co-abuse came out of being a now retired therapist who specialised in a number fields of human relating - couples and group codependency was one.

I had my fill of the stuff people do in relationship (other than my own now which I attend to with commitment, care, and nurturing), and has decided to simply put down (for the most part lol ????) such work and processing.

It did seem clear right from the start (and a point of a few minutes of listening and watching by being caught by surprise of the first feeds of them in court)  to me they were both carrying tonnes of unfinished business and became enmeshed very quickly - note the super fast proposal of marriage by Johnny to Amber i.e. ergo metaphysically - 'its my mum, I 'know' her so intimately and 'must' be with her).

Dep from a really abusive childhood - violent terrifying father, and a mother deeply overwhelmed, needy, and carrying heaps of pain. Maybe he was surrogated by his mom or took that role on himself without overt actions to enmesh him by mum (very common in homes like came from), and polarised to his dads psyche by becoming his dads opposite.

What I sensed he, unlike many fellas, may have turned to was a 'gentler adaption' to all the violence isolation and abandonment (this adaption seems to show itself clearly to me, and is well documented by others, shows in his manner, voice, and responses to others) to the male violence he suffered and witnessed rather than the oft adaption of becoming violent like the original male abuser as som many men do.

He may have too been pre-dispositioned because of caring for his mom as an all too young boy (a role that denies the child his innocence and natural process of being a kid which indices sorrow and rage and as Johnny showed a 'freezing' or non-reactiveness - a form of 'disassociation' when the other is abusive) to carry a need to rescue and caretake women.

Enter Ms Heard.

None of this hypothesis takes into account the activeness of the other in establishing a relationship, and which is highly co-creative of course. He chose and was chosen by a person such as Heard who I suspect was in significant features very different to his mum, yet significantly 'helpless' to be irresistible to him but far more rage-filled, predatory, and malicious than other women he has known.

Edited June 3, 2022 by Tropposurfer

[Excel]

1 hour ago, KhunLA said:

Mother & father .... really.  Apples & oranges, not that parents have never been accused of abuse.

 

Let me tell you about schizos, and this is a true story.  GF, p issed off at me, leaves rented townhouse, on pay phone, down the corner, crying for some reason, and man hating lesbo cop sees her.   Only Buddha know what she told her, I'm arrested for 'spousal abuse', which I thought was hilarious, since not married.  She so terrified to be near me, she waiting for me at home, when I get released.

 

Before hearing, we talk to DA, no evidence of, and she is not going to testify against me, so don't waste court's time.  He writes a doc, she signs it, and it basically states, can't sue DA if I kill her tomorrow.

 

Next argument with have, she hides my passport & keyboard, mind boggling.

 

I want her out of my life, so go to PoPo and ask them to stand by, as I ask her to leave my townhouse, if not, arrest her for defiant trespassing.  Want witness, to avoiding being accused of abuse again.  Officer follows me back home, I ask, and he agrees to be incognito.  Easy to enter townhouse, we stand in kitchen, him next to me but out of her line of sight.

 

I ask, "are you going to give me my PP or not",  she states 'no'.  I tell her, if not, I'm going to have you evicted, along with, 'if I do that, are you going to accuse me of abusing you again ?'

 

With that, she states, "LA, you know you've never hit me" .... we have a winner.

The officer steps out, and tell her she has to leave.  Expression on face ... priceless.

 

But wait there's more .... 

 

She says, can I have 1 more day here, as my brother is coming down now, as we speak, to pick me up and take me home, back to Pennsylvania, as living in Tennessee now.  I of course say no, and she repeats the request, stating just talked to them again a little while ago, half way here, and they'll be here in a few hours.

 

The phone rings .....  without thinking what she's about to say, she happy as hell, and I'm like 'what?'.   It's her mother, and her brother is in the hospital, getting his needed kidney transplant, as been waiting for years.  You mean he's not a few hours away from arriving here to get you .... ????

 

Me and the officer just look at each other and he starts laughing.  I couldn't say 'get the F out of here fast enough'.

 

But wait, there's more .... her 2 kids come down stairs as she's in a huff, yelling and cursing as she leaves.  Officer asks her ...  "Miss, you're not taking the kids" ..... "F 'em, he can have them, they like him more than me anyway"

 

Someone I lived with for about 5 yrs .... trust NOBODY.

Well I did suggest you were bitter and sad and that tale illustrates it. As for why, well, as you say "trust one" so hence guess it's always best to hear both sides of the argument isn't it as people who think like you would not trust what you just posted would they ? Works both ways you know

[sawadee1947]

5 hours ago, OneMoreFarang said:

Amber obviously lied. She is guilty. Some woman do lie. Don't believe all of them.

My Impression is far from calling Depp an angel.

We would never get the truth which might still be hidden or just in the middle.????

[Hummin]

9 minutes ago, sawadee1947 said:

My Impression is far from calling Depp an angel.

We would never get the truth which might still be hidden or just in the middle.????

OJ Simpson was innocent to! Proven in court

[Pmbkk]

 

Not to read rubbish and waste many hours of your life on something that doesn't concern you. ????

 

Much the same as the Rooney v Vardy case

 

P.S. I didn't read the article, just commented on the title