New Protocol to convert tourist visa to Non-Immigrant type O retirement option.

[thairat]

This is a continuation of my earlier post, my experience today is totally different than advice received here.

Below refers to Chiang Mai Immigration.

 

• Upon filling out TM 86 form in duplicate, statement letter from bank passed throuh the outside prescreening process of checking documents then off to the indoor Info/ Re-check window.
• At info rechecking window they said the wrong form to re -apply for retirement visa, I need TM 87, also the passbook that was updated yesterday was no longer valid.
• After jumping through these hoops off to another “window” ie C5
• At this window they claimed my residency status had to be updated TM 30, I believe
• Waiting in line required copies and to view bank book, then back to C5 counter.
• Paid 2000 baht, wait 30 minutes, then told I must return on July 12, at 1PM-4PM, and would tell me if application was successful, could not come any other day or time.. 
• If successful, they give me 45 days, after that I come back and get another 45 days, which can then be extended for a year.
• Told to use blue pen not a black pen.

What a bowl of spaghetti, I need to re-assess my options.

 

 

 

 

Edited June 21, 2022 by thairat
Sp

[ubonjoe]

Did you have a tourist visa that allowed a 60 day stay or a 30 day visa exempt entry?

[thairat]

The explanation of the 45 days and an additional 45 days was as clear as mud!, but what was clear was I must show up on 12 July, I have another appointment that day in Bkk, too bad for me.

Edited June 21, 2022 by thairat
Sp

[thairat]

1 minute ago, ubonjoe said:

Did you have a tourist visa that allowed a 60 day stay or a 30 day visa exempt entry?

A tourist visa Extension, they claimed I could only get 30 days.

Edited June 21, 2022 by thairat

[ubonjoe]

8 minutes ago, thairat said:

They claimed I could only get 30 days.

A tourist visa is issued by a embassy or consulate and allows a 60 day stay.

It seems you had a 30 day visa exempt entry.

I think July 12th might be a little flexible. When does your current permit to stay end?

Edited June 21, 2022 by ubonjoe
Added a additional question.

[thairat]

2 minutes ago, ubonjoe said:

A tourist visa is issued by a embassy or consulate and allows a 60 day stay.

It seems you had a 30 day visa exempt entry.

Possibly, not what I asked for how can I tell?

[thairat]

 My visa was assigned at the Nong Khai border.

[DrJack54]

3 minutes ago, thairat said:

 My visa was assigned at the Nong Khai border.

Very confusing.

Sounds like you obtained a 30 day visa exempt entry.

If you had a visa you would have obtained that at the Vientiane consulate.

 

[thairat]

So is this the reason, I’m having so many headaches? , because a tourist visa exempt extension is different from a tourist visa extension?

[ubonjoe]

1 minute ago, thairat said:

 My visa was assigned at the Nong Khai border.

You cannot get a tourist visa at a border crossing. It has to be applied for at a embassy.

You got a 30 day visa exempt entry at the border crossing.

[thairat]

5 minutes ago, ubonjoe said:

You cannot get a tourist visa at a border crossing. It has to be applied for at a embassy.

You got a 30 day visa exempt entry at the border crossing.

So is this the reason, I’m having so many headaches? , because a tourist visa exempt extension is different from a tourist visa extension?
 

How could I know this? I dont recall being told at CM immigration, when explained what I needed to do was go to a conulate or embassy, just leave the country and re-enter.

 

Immigration want your attempts to fail, again reassess options.

Edited June 21, 2022 by thairat

[ubonjoe]

1 minute ago, thairat said:

So is this the reason, I’m having so many headaches? , because a tourist visa exempt extension is different from a tourist visa extension?

A visa exempt entry and a tourist visa are not the same.

Extensions of a permit to stay are only issued by a immigration office

[DrJack54]

1 minute ago, thairat said:

So is this the reason, I’m having so many headaches? , because a tourist visa exempt extension is different from a tourist visa extension?

You don't have a tourist visa.

The stamp at entry would show that.

Most likely you obtained 30 day exempt entry. 

Meaning NO visa.

You can apply for a 30 day extension.

The requirements to obtain a non O visa from that entry are clear. 

[thairat]

I did get a 30 extension, I requested a tourist visa, no one at Thai immigration at border said I couldnt get one, how would I know what they gave me?

[DrJack54]

6 minutes ago, thairat said:

I did get a 30 extension, I requested a tourist visa, no one at Thai immigration at border said I couldnt get one, how would I know what they gave me?

You need back up.

First I assume that you are now in Thailand.

On your current stamp it states ... "Admitted till date"

How many days until expiry of that date. 

Have you already obtained a 30 day extension to your visa exempt entry? 

Edited June 21, 2022 by DrJack54

[thairat]

When applying for my retirement visa CM immigration made it clear, I didnt need to go to Vientienne, merely leave and re-enter.

[thairat]

2 minutes ago, DrJack54 said:

You need back up.

First I assume that you are now in Thailand.

On your current stamp it states ... "Admitted till date"

How many days until expiry of that date. 

Have you already obtained a 30 day extension to your visa exempt entry? 

Valid til 31 July

[DrJack54]

4 minutes ago, thairat said:

Valid til 31 July

Do you have 800k in a Thai bank account in your name.

Is so you can apply for a non O based on retirement.

BTW it's not a retirement visa. 

 

Seem to recall CM requires 21 days remaining on your permission of stay. You have more than that. 

Most offices 15+ is sufficient.

 

[thairat]

They checked my bank statement letter, multiple copies of my passbook, everything OK there.

 

They couldnt explain what was going on, just show up, when the clock strikes exactly 1 PM on July 12, or I hope to turn into a pumpkin. Fakked as they say in Thailand.

[BritTim]

7 minutes ago, thairat said:

They checked my bank statement letter, multiple copies of my passbook, everything OK there.

 

They couldnt explain what was going on, just show up, when the clock strikes exactly 1 PM on July 12, or I hope to turn into a pumpkin. Fakked as they say in Thailand.

What is in your passport now? This is my guess reading between the lines of what you have written so far:

• You entered Thailand via the Friendship Bridge from Vientiane to Nong Khai on June 2nd without a visa. You were given an entry stamp in your passport allowing you to stay until July 1st (30-day visa exempt entry)
• You recently applied for (and received) a 30-day extension of your visa exempt entry, thus giving you the current updated permission to stay date of July 31st.
• You have subsequently applied to convert to a Non 90-day O visa with the intention of retirement. The application has been provisionally accepted. You now have an "under consideration" stamp with instructions to return on July 12th to receive the confirmed Non O visa and associated new 90-day permission to stay.

If the above is correct, on July 12, you should receive a bunch of new stamps in your passport, most important a new permission to stay until, probably, about 10 October. About 30 to 45 days before the expiry of this new permission to stay, on payment of an additional 1,900 baht, you will be able to apply for a 12 month extension of your retirement permission to stay.

 

Does anything in your passport conflict with what I write above?

[GroveHillWanderer]

1 hour ago, thairat said:

This is a continuation of my earlier post, my experience today is totally different than advice received here.

That's probably because you gave people some erroneous information in your earlier post.

 

You stated you had a tourist visa but you didn't, you had a visa exempt entry.

 

I think that's what threw everybody off initially.

 

Anyway, from what I can tell, your situation is probably accurately summed up by @BritTimin his post above and so it appears as if everything is proceeding as it should, for someone who entered on a 30-day visa exempt entry.

 

My advice would be to relax and let the process run its course - it seems to be going just fine.

[thairat]

I may have misled the thread but how could I know given advice given directly from CM immigration.

How could I tell the difference between visa exempt vs tourist visa given that I was told  by immig I didnt need to go to Vientienne, cant trust immigration advice!

 

I believe we were told on 12 July there will be no cost, but suspect later there will be a charge for the retirement option.

[thairat]

3 hours ago, BritTim said:

What is in your passport now? This is my guess reading between the lines of what you have written so far:

• You entered Thailand via the Friendship Bridge from Vientiane to Nong Khai on June 2nd without a visa. You were given an entry stamp in your passport allowing you to stay until July 1st (30-day visa exempt entry)
• You recently applied for (and received) a 30-day extension of your visa exempt entry, thus giving you the current updated permission to stay date of July 31st.
• You have subsequently applied to convert to a Non 90-day O visa with the intention of retirement. The application has been provisionally accepted. You now have an "under consideration" stamp with instructions to return on July 12th to receive the confirmed Non O visa and associated new 90-day permission to stay.

If the above is correct, on July 12, you should receive a bunch of new stamps in your passport, most important a new permission to stay until, probably, about 10 October. About 30 to 45 days before the expiry of this new permission to stay, on payment of an additional 1,900 baht, you will be able to apply for a 12 month extension of your retirement permission to stay.

 

Does anything in your passport conflict with what I write above?

That could be so, only after 12 July will I know what is going on.

[BritTim]

8 hours ago, thairat said:

I may have misled the thread but how could I know given advice given directly from CM immigration.

How could I tell the difference between visa exempt vs tourist visa given that I was told  by immig I didnt need to go to Vientienne, cant trust immigration advice!

 

I believe we were told on 12 July there will be no cost, but suspect later there will be a charge for the retirement option.

Two points:

1. There is no substantive difference when planning to convert to a Non O visa at immigration between entering visa exempt or with a tourist visa. Thus, I do not see that Chiang Mai immigration misled you on this.
2. You seem to have already paid for the extension of your visa exempt entry (1,900 baht) and for the Non O visa (2,000 baht). There will be no charge July 12th. The next time there will be anything to pay will be when you subsequently apply for the one-year extension (September or October). [The only exception is if you decide to make a trip outside Thailand before then, in which case you will need to pay for a re-entry permit.]

[Onerak]

13 hours ago, thairat said:

did get a 30 extension, I requested a tourist visa, no one at Thai immigration at border said I couldnt get one, how would I know what they gave me?

Utter lack of simple knowledge just boggles my mind.

[Onerak]

14 hours ago, thairat said:

I did get a 30 extension, I requested a tourist visa, no one at Thai immigration at border said I couldnt get one, how would I know what they gave me?

Hmm asking for a visa at the border clearly demonstrates utter lack of knowledge between a visa and visa exempt entry. This just boggles my mind. 

[Resident Alien]

If they require TM87 iso TM86 that says a lot, I think.

 

1.1 Form TM.86 for the foreigner, who has Tourist or Transit Visa and want to applies for a change of type of visa (from Tourist Visa or Transit Visa to Non-Immigrant Visa); or

1.2 Form TM.87 for the foreigner, who enters the kingdom of Thailand without visa, but is allowed to stay in the kingdom with a permit of stay for a period of 30 days, 90 days and want to applies for non-immigrant visa.

[Caldera]

11 hours ago, thairat said:

How could I tell the difference between visa exempt vs tourist visa given that I was told  by immig I didnt need to go to Vientienne, cant trust immigration advice!

They gave you correct advice. Entering visa exempt instead of with an actual tourist visa just has two consequences in your situation:

 

Firstly, it gives you less time to apply for the non-immigrant visa at immigration. As you had already met the requirements, in particular money in the bank, that isn't a problem for you.

 

Secondly, you need to use a different form, TM87 instead of TM86. They're almost identical, so that isn't really a problem for you either.

 

I'd say this is going well for you.

[CMBob]

BritTim has likely guessed the true scenario here.  Most of the "confusion" in this thread was caused by the OP's misunderstanding of the terms and perhaps also misunderstanding as to what the immigration people here at Chiangmai told him.

 

The OP's contention that they told him to come back July 12th and he'd get "45 days, after that I come back and get another 45 days..." is, I believe, a continuation of the OP's misunderstanding of the situation.  On July 12th, he appears he will get his Non-O and, during the last 45 (CM rule) days of the Non-O he can apply for an annual extension based on retirement.  I went through the same process at CM Immigration this past fall and thought it was rather an easy process.

 

 

[thairat]

In the past were tourist visas ever granted at the border? or was admission at the border always referred in this context to visa exempt.

I cant remember last time I had a tourist visa maybe I never had one, so dont  remember the details of the process.

I had never heard of visa exempt before til just recently, thought this may have been done in light of covid.

 

I dont live in the visa forum, these important nuances of visa acquisition here are just assumed, because of the dynamic nature of visa’s in Thailand is why I came here in the first place. If I knew everything why bother with the forum. I’d thought the forum would point out the common pitfalls of the process.

It appears that commonly used term “tourist visa” is not actually a visa at all, but rather visa exempt.

 

So the commonly heard term “Visa on arrival” doesnt apply to Thailand?