U.S. Supreme Court overturns Roe v. Wade, ending 50 years of federal abortion rights

[bobbin]

16 hours ago, BangkokReady said:

Isn't it sad for a man that a woman can abort his baby and he has no say in it?

Yes, perhaps sad, but the man, as regards pregnancy is very much the junior partner.

 

Here is an analogy. Bacon and eggs. The chicken is involved. The pig is committed.

[coolcarer]

24 minutes ago, BangkokReady said:

So why does that man not have a say, given the fact that his body, his health, his time at work, his emotional state is affected?

Who ever said a man cannot have his say?

 

Until a man can experience the risk factors associated with pregnancy such as being more prone to serious illness and viruses, increased blood pressure, dizziness, daily vomiting, vaginal surgery to avoid tears, haemorrhoids, swollen veins, nerve damage, birth trauma, changes in immune functions, expanding of the uterus, fluid in the lungs causing bacterial growth, urinary tract infections. Many more not mentioned.
 

This together with all the other reasons, then the man’s say will never be equal will it?

[Lacessit]

42 minutes ago, BangkokReady said:

So why does that man not have a say, given the fact that his body, his health, his time at work, his emotional state is affected?

Assuming said man is still around, would said man want to endure morning sickness, gravidity, and the pain of childbirth? There's no way of making those experiences equal.

[placeholder]

19 minutes ago, coolcarer said:

Who ever said a man cannot have his say?

 

Until a man can experience the risk factors associated with pregnancy such as being more prone to serious illness and viruses, increased blood pressure, dizziness, daily vomiting, vaginal surgery to avoid tears, haemorrhoids, swollen veins, nerve damage, birth trauma, changes in immune functions, expanding of the uterus, fluid in the lungs causing bacterial growth, urinary tract infections. Many more not mentioned.
 

This together with all the other reasons, then the man’s say will never be equal will it?

You'll notice that BangkokReady never defines what level of authority he assigns to  the "say" men should have. Register a dissent? Have veto power? Until he does, whatever point he is trying to make remains obscure.

And of course, if BangkokReady is arguing for equality, then does the prospective father have a right to back abortion against the wishes of the woman he's impregnated? And what should be the results of his objection? That the woman must submit to an abortion?

Until he clarifies with an answer to these questions, he's really saying nothing.

Edited June 26, 2022 by placeholder

[KhunLA]

11 minutes ago, coolcarer said:

Who ever said a man cannot have his say?

 

Until a man can experience the risk factors associated with pregnancy such as being more prone to serious illness and viruses, increased blood pressure, dizziness, daily vomiting, vaginal surgery to avoid tears, haemorrhoids, swollen veins, nerve damage, birth trauma, changes in immune functions, expanding of the uterus, fluid in the lungs causing bacterial growth, urinary tract infections. Many more not mentioned.
 

This together with all the other reasons, then the man’s say will never be equal will it?

Getting pregnant IS a choice.  Want to avoid the above, don't get pregnant.

 

If not actively preventing pregnancy, you are choosing to become pregnant.

[placeholder]

2 minutes ago, KhunLA said:

Getting pregnant IS a choice.  Want to avoid the above, don't get pregnant.

 

If not actively preventing pregnancy, you are choosing to become pregnant.

When a woman has unprotected sex she's declaring that she's choosing to be pregnant? Because sex is all about rationality?  Does that go for underage teens who are considered minors under the law?

[coolcarer]

3 minutes ago, KhunLA said:

Getting pregnant IS a choice.  Want to avoid the above, don't get pregnant.

 

If not actively preventing pregnancy, you are choosing to become pregnant.

If you actually followed the string of posts, this was to do with an accidental pregnancy not a planned on…………..if it was planned it is irrelevant to the debate.

[KhunLA]

3 minutes ago, coolcarer said:

If you actually followed the string of posts, this was to do with an accidental pregnancy not a planned on…………..if it was planned it is irrelevant to the debate.

If you don't plan not to get pregnant .... you obviously planned to get pregnant.  You can't fix stupid.

 

Accidental, is an excuse for stupidity.  

 

Somehow, myself & 4 wives, 2 live in GF never had an accident.

That's what happens when you plan not have an accident.

[James105]

For one American husband at least, this ruling has worked out quite nicely

 

[KhunLA]

8 minutes ago, placeholder said:

When a woman has unprotected sex she's declaring that she's choosing to be pregnant? Because sex is all about rationality?  Does that go for underage teens who are considered minors under the law?

Better parenting goes a long way.  Sh!t does happen, deal with it, but do not make excuses, or call something 'a few cells'.   It is what it is, let it live, or kill it.

 

Accept that decision & live with it, either way.

[coolcarer]

3 minutes ago, KhunLA said:

If you don't plan not to get pregnant .... you obviously planned to get pregnant.  You can't fix stupid.

 

Accidental, is an excuse for stupidity.  

 

Somehow, myself & 4 wives, 2 live in GF never had an accident.

That's what happens when you plan not have an accident.

The pill is 99% effective, condoms are 98% effective. Accidents happen, glad to hear they didn’t happen your 4 wives

[BangkokReady]

1 hour ago, bobbin said:

Here is an analogy. Bacon and eggs. The chicken is involved. The pig is committed.

Interesting, but how do things change after the meal has been consumed?  After the baby is born, things are very different.

 

I'm not sure your analogy works once you consider that carrying and birthing the baby is not the only part of child birth or rearing.  It is very much a two course meal.

[placeholder]

9 minutes ago, KhunLA said:

Better parenting goes a long way.  Sh!t does happen, deal with it, but do not make excuses, or call something 'a few cells'.   It is what it is, let it live, or kill it.

 

Accept that decision & live with it, either way.

Don't call it a "few cells" because it isn't a few cells? Really. You think it's more sensible to call it Johnny or Sally?

[BangkokReady]

39 minutes ago, coolcarer said:

Until a man can experience the risk factors associated with pregnancy such as being more prone to serious illness and viruses, increased blood pressure, dizziness, daily vomiting, vaginal surgery to avoid tears, haemorrhoids, swollen veins, nerve damage, birth trauma, changes in immune functions, expanding of the uterus, fluid in the lungs causing bacterial growth, urinary tract infections. Many more not mentioned.

Are you saying there are no health issues, no strain, no stress, no damage to the body, from a man working for 18 years to financially support a child to adulthood?

[EVENKEEL]

Seems to me if you don't like the laws of one state you are free to move. Much like folks are fleeing Ca due to high taxes.

[placeholder]

9 minutes ago, BangkokReady said:

Are you saying there are no health issues, no strain, no stress, no damage to the body, from a man working for 18 years to financially support a child to adulthood?

What year are you living in? 1950? I got some astounding news for you. Women have entered the labor force in very large numbers in the USA.

Edited June 26, 2022 by placeholder

[KhunLA]

7 minutes ago, placeholder said:

Don't call it a "few cells" because it isn't a few cells? Really. You think it's more sensible to call it Johnny or Sally?

I call it life  ...  feel free to call it what you want.

[coolcarer]

9 minutes ago, BangkokReady said:

Are you saying there are no health issues, no strain, no stress, no damage to the body, from a man working for 18 years to financially support a child to adulthood?

My post said what I’m saying did you read it?

 

51 minutes ago, coolcarer said:

Who ever said a man cannot have his say?

 

Until a man can experience the risk factors associated with pregnancy such as being more prone to serious illness and viruses, increased blood pressure, dizziness, daily vomiting, vaginal surgery to avoid tears, haemorrhoids, swollen veins, nerve damage, birth trauma, changes in immune functions, expanding of the uterus, fluid in the lungs causing bacterial growth, urinary tract infections. Many more not mentioned.
 

This together with all the other reasons, then the man’s say will never be equal will it?

 

[BangkokReady]

1 hour ago, placeholder said:

The question isn't whether he has a say but whether he has an equal say. Or an unequal say if he has the right to a veto. Do you believe that the prospective father should have to right to veto an abortion?

I think it's harder to make a "bodily autonomy" argument in those circumstances.  Isn't that more of a feelings based deal?  "I want the baby."

[placeholder]

8 minutes ago, EVENKEEL said:

Seems to me if you don't like the laws of one state you are free to move. Much like folks are fleeing Ca due to high taxes.

Because uprooting and moving elsewhere isn't costly and an option open to rich and poor alike.

https://qz.com/1761630/why-americans-have-stopped-moving-geographically-even-for-work/

[BangkokReady]

6 minutes ago, placeholder said:

What year are you living in? 1950? I got some astounding news for you. Women have entered the labor force in very large number in the USA.

How does that change the effect that working has on a man?  I think you have misunderstood my comment.

[placeholder]

2 minutes ago, BangkokReady said:

I think it's harder to make a "bodily autonomy" argument in those circumstances.  Isn't that more of a feelings based deal?  "I want the baby."

So, for someone who gets so incensed about someone avoiding an issue, you seem remarkably resistant to specifying what  level of authority you assign to"say".

Edited June 26, 2022 by placeholder

[BangkokReady]

3 minutes ago, coolcarer said:

My post said what I’m saying did you read it?

Yes, of course, that is why I asked you a question directly relating to what you said.

 

This is quite standard for a conversation

[coolcarer]

1 minute ago, BangkokReady said:

Yes, of course, that is why I asked you a question directly relating to what you said.

 

This is quite standard for a conversation

If you read it my answer its already in the response. To repeat. A man does not have an equal say in the decision due to the reasons I already posted. Would you like me to post one more time? 

[BangkokReady]

3 minutes ago, placeholder said:

So, for someone who gets so incensed about someone avoiding an issue, you seem remarkably resistant to specifying what level of authority you assign to "say".

You asked and I answered...?

 

"Do you believe that the prospective father should have to right to veto an abortion?"

 

"I think it's harder to make a "bodily autonomy" argument in those circumstances.  Isn't that more of a feelings based deal?  "I want the baby.""

[placeholder]

3 minutes ago, BangkokReady said:

How does that change the effect that working has on a man?  I think you have misunderstood my comment.

Because mothers are mostly working too, So that cancels those contributions. In addition, you take no account of deadbeat dads or men who just impregnated women and went on their merry way.

And of course, you seem to assume that mothers who do stay home have an easier life than their working spouse.

And finally, so much self pity in likening the huge effects of pregnancy and childibrith on a women's body and mind to whatever is experienced by a man.

[BangkokReady]

1 minute ago, coolcarer said:

To repeat. A man does not have an equal say in the decision due to the reasons I already posted.

So your stance is that, no matter what, the man's effort involved in working to pay for a child until they turn 18 can never be as great as the woman's effort in carrying and birthing a child?

[placeholder]

1 minute ago, BangkokReady said:

You asked and I answered...?

 

"Do you believe that the prospective father should have to right to veto an abortion?"

 

"I think it's harder to make a "bodily autonomy" argument in those circumstances.  Isn't that more of a feelings based deal?  "I want the baby.""

Why is that a "feelinggs based deal". You're saying no principles are involved? That's convenient and utterly evasive.

 

What's more, you still haven't defined what level of authority to assign to  a man's "say" if the pregnant women wants an abortion.

[BangkokReady]

2 minutes ago, placeholder said:

Because mothers are mostly working too, So that cancels those contributions.

It does nothing of the sort.  Saying that a man makes physical effort to earn money is in no way cancelled out by the fact that "women earn money too".  It has nothing to do with what I am saying.

 

2 minutes ago, placeholder said:

In addition, you take no account of deadbeat dads or men who just impregnated women and went on their merry way.

I'm not discussing deadbeat dads, so, of course, their existence is irrelevant here.

 

2 minutes ago, placeholder said:

And of course, you seem to assume that mothers who do stay home have an easier life than their working spouse.

I haven't said anything about women staying at home, working, being a housewife, etc..  It literally has no relevance in this at all.

 

2 minutes ago, placeholder said:

And finally, so much self pity in likening the huge effects of pregnancy and childibrith on a women's body and mind to whatever is experienced by a man.

I could say the same about you completely disregarding the effects working for 18 years might have on a man.

[coolcarer]

1 minute ago, BangkokReady said:

So your stance is that, no matter what, the man's effort involved in working to pay for a child until they turn 18 can never be as great as the woman's effort in carrying and birthing a child?

Not my stance is it, it’s a woman’s right. That’s the bottom line and always will be.