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LTR Visa is Now available for Long Term Residency


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I have a question, i want to apply for the LTRWP (Wealthy Pensioner) i have have enough Rental income so can i show my bank statements to prove this or do they want to see all my rental contracts (about 8 contracts/80 pages) because i am from the Netherlands and when i have to translate all it cost me more then this visa? Or maybe they accept a income declaration from the Consulate if they can make? thanks in advance

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Seems the LTR website is of the same ilk as the then Thailand Pass website.

 

Do I stand a chance when I need to upload, among other thinks, 12 statements of accounts + their Thai translations? That's 24 PDF files! 

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31 minutes ago, Pib said:

Can't speak to why BoI shutdown the "login" capability since the beginning of Songkran....hopefully a person will be able to login staring Monday/17 Apr when people come back to work.

 

Regarding the "many" PDF files,  I would recommend your "stack/merge" like type PDF files.  By stack/merge I mean the PDF files are chained together into one PDF file.  ...

 

Will not merging 12 PDF files create a document 12 times bigger? It remains to be seen if that turns out easier "swallow" for the LTR website. If there's a bandwith problem it might prove more difficult and the merged file may take for ever to upload. Still, thanks for the tip.

 

P.S. I see it is also possible to use online "PDF compressors" to purge the files of some of their fat. Makes a file half as big.

 

Edited by JackGats
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4 hours ago, Cocon said:

I have a question, i want to apply for the LTRWP (Wealthy Pensioner) i have have enough Rental income so can i show my bank statements to prove this or do they want to see all my rental contracts (about 8 contracts/80 pages) because i am from the Netherlands and when i have to translate all it cost me more then this visa? Or maybe they accept a income declaration from the Consulate if they can make? thanks in advance

Hopefully some LTR pensioner approved applicant who used the multiple rental passive income method to gain LTR approval  like you want to use will answer (I used the pension income route), but I would "not" think a rental contract, whether long or short and regardless of language, would serve as the primarily doc(s) to prove rental income since just showing a rental contract does not prove rental income is actually being paid/coming in especially if some renters have stopped paying rental and you are involved in a long legal process in trying to evict the renters and collect back payment.     

 

I would think BoI would want to see cash flow documentation like proof of the actual payment going into your bank acct and/or declaration of the rental income on your tax return.   Now, I can see where the BoI "might" want also want to see key portions of the rental contracts like maybe the first few pages and maybe signature page as "secondary/further proof" type documentation that the cash flow payments/tax return rental income is truly passive rental income.  Personally, I would "not" submit any rental contracts unless BoI asks for them; instead, submit documents showing the real world rental cash payments to you.   Or maybe you have a real estate management firm collecting the monthly payments and that firm can provide documentation of cash flow/rental payment, etc. 

 

 

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1 hour ago, Pib said:

Hopefully some LTR pensioner approved applicant who used the multiple rental passive income method to gain LTR approval  like you want to use will answer (I used the pension income route), but I would "not" think a rental contract, whether long or short and regardless of language, would serve as the primarily doc(s) to prove rental income since just showing a rental contract does not prove rental income is actually being paid/coming in especially if some renters have stopped paying rental and you are involved in a long legal process in trying to evict the renters and collect back payment.     

 

I would think BoI would want to see cash flow documentation like proof of the actual payment going into your bank acct and/or declaration of the rental income on your tax return.   Now, I can see where the BoI "might" want also want to see key portions of the rental contracts like maybe the first few pages and maybe signature page as "secondary/further proof" type documentation that the cash flow payments/tax return rental income is truly passive rental income.  Personally, I would "not" submit any rental contracts unless BoI asks for them; instead, submit documents showing the real world rental cash payments to you.   Or maybe you have a real estate management firm collecting the monthly payments and that firm can provide documentation of cash flow/rental payment, etc. 

 

 

Thanks Pib I will ask the Boi first what they want, I can’t show any Tax paper because I live in Thailand for 15 years and I am Tax Resident in Thailand so I don’t have to pay Tax In the Netherlands over my rental income. I have a Real Estate Management company who take care everything for me so maybe they can provide me the info what the Boi want?

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6 minutes ago, Cocon said:

Thanks Pib I will ask the Boi first what they want, I can’t show any Tax paper because I live in Thailand for 15 years and I am Tax Resident in Thailand so I don’t have to pay Tax In the Netherlands over my rental income. I have a Real Estate Management company who take care everything for me so maybe they can provide me the info what the Boi want?

Now don't be surprised if BoI asks you submit your latest tax return from whatever country you are a tax resident of....Netherlands, Thailand, etc.   As mentioned earlier I went the Pension income route, submitted pension certificate/letters from the U.S. govt pension paying agencies, but the BoI around a month into my application asked for my U.S. tax return in an Additional Docs Request maybe for secondary proof of the pensions payments, maybe to give them a warm fuzzy I was a law-abiding, tax paying person, etc.  So, if you don't have any tax return from any country just be prepared to explain why not if, repeat, if the BoI asks for your tax return.

 

Although submitting a tax return was previously an "optional" document to submit" in LTR checklists I just noticed on the LTR website" it seems as of 16 March 2023 LTR Wealthy Pensioner Checklist the BoI has included a tax return as an example of mandatory proof of income.  Yea, BoI has updated/tweaked the wording of the Mandatory Docs Worksheets....I just noticed it in preparing this post. 

 

For example in the updated Pensioner and Work from Thailand categories the worksheets are "more wordy/detailed" in trying to explain what type of docs are needed.   I don't think there is really in major changes, but instead the BoI is just trying to "explain better/give more examples" of acceptable proof docs.

 

LTR Pension Req'd Docs Checklist

https://ltr.boi.go.th/documents/Required-Documents-for-Qualification-Endorsement-for-Wealthy-pensioner-16-03-66.pdf  

 

LTR Work From Thailand Req'd Docs Checklist

https://ltr.boi.go.th/documents/Required-Documents-for-Qualification-Endorsement-for-Work-from-Thailand-16-03-66.pdf

 

 

Good luck in your application.

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Yes, the LTR webpage info is changing/being updated like the info in the Application Process, "Required Documents" area.   The Required Docs Checklists are now dated 16 March 2023 although I'm pretty sure although dated 16 March they have only been uploaded over the last week or so.    

 

The 16 March 2023 Checklists seem to be more detailed, explanatory of the type of acceptable docs....gives examples of docs they are looking for like tax return form number examples (e.g., 1040 tax form if filing a U.S. tax return, etc).   And where the tax return used to be in the "optional" category it's now in the mandatory category.

 

Also, for the Wealthy Pensioner the 16 March 2023 checklist seems to say a applicant will need to show "two" years worth of tax returns to prove  at least $80K USD in income per year for the last "two" years.    But when you look at the BoI 30 June 2022 Formal Announcement of Requirements (still in effect) it only shows a "one" year requirement for Wealthy Pensioner income proof.  When I applied and was approved late last year I only needed to provide  my latest U.S. tax return....not two years worth of tax returns.   Maybe it's just how I'm reading (misunderstanding) the latest pensioner checklist or maybe BoI now wants to see two years of tax returns for pensioners although the official announcement and brochures/briefings did not?  See BoI weblinks/partial snapshots below

 

Wealthy Pensioner 16 Mar 2023 Checklist

https://ltr.boi.go.th/documents/Required-Documents-for-Qualification-Endorsement-for-Wealthy-pensioner-16-03-66.pdf

 

image.png.5f2da76f6696f46fe6b8b7e9b6936790.png

 

 

BoI LTR Requirements Announcement 30 June 2022

https://ltr.boi.go.th/documents/Announcement_of the Office of the Board of Investment No.2-2565 (EN).pdf

 

image.png.0a2d2b6a3157d9f2f145ea2981f0ca66.png

 

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I read this as requiring WP applicants to either provide a pension certificate(s) showing $80K - per year.

I use my Social Security and Pension Benefit statements from my non-federal government job. 

 

OR 

 

Provide tax return(s) showing passive income of $80K 

I would provide a tax transcript as is anonymized through truncating names and all but the last four digits of the Social Security number. 

 

A request for two years in the latter case makes some sense as it decreases the likelihood of gaming the requirement. 

 

For example the last two-years of 1099Rs included $107K and $105K in RMDs (Required Minimum Withdrawal) and conversions from my Taxable IRA to my Roth IRA - only the RMD touched my hands, but I would be able to claim 'Wealthy Pensioner' status based on my 1099Rs from 2021 and 2022.

 

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54 minutes ago, mudcat said:

I read this as requiring WP applicants to either provide a pension certificate(s) showing $80K - per year.

I use my Social Security and Pension Benefit statements from my non-federal government job. 

 

OR 

 

Provide tax return(s) showing passive income of $80K 

I would provide a tax transcript as is anonymized through truncating names and all but the last four digits of the Social Security number. 

 

A request for two years in the latter case makes some sense as it decreases the likelihood of gaming the requirement. 

 

For example the last two-years of 1099Rs included $107K and $105K in RMDs (Required Minimum Withdrawal) and conversions from my Taxable IRA to my Roth IRA - only the RMD touched my hands, but I would be able to claim 'Wealthy Pensioner' status based on my 1099Rs from 2021 and 2022.

 

You could be right but in those cases where an "OR" applied BoI seemed to be clear like regarding medical insurance where they clearly use "OR" to specify the three different options.   But in the income area they did not use "OR" which implies to me in the case of a Wealthy Pensioner application they want a tax returns....and when a person is using the pension method they also want pension certificates/letters/docs also.  Now whether the BoI absolutely now requires tax returns and pension certificates is something I'm not privy to.  

 

I do know when I applied for my pensioner visa late last year I only initially submitted pension certificates/letters....but about a month later I got an additional doc request from BoI asking for my latest tax return which I then provided....then a few weeks later I was approved.

 

And although the checklist now says two years worth of tax returns for Wealthy Pensioner the official document June 2022 BoI announcement signed by the BoI director only requires one year of income proof "at time of application;" no requirements to look back two years....or even one year.....just prove you meet income requirements at time of application for wealthy pensioner.   

 

And I can see cases where a pensioner's latest COLA could put them over the top in meeting the income requirement when multiplying the new monthly pension income by 12 to get the new annual amount.....but if having to still using the previous year or two of monthly payments then that income averaging would put them back below the income requirement forcing them to wait another year or two to apply.  I don't think that is what BoI wants/intended in case of a pensioner....that is waiting until you have a full year or two of required pension income when current monthly pension certificate/letters now meet the required income level.

 

 

 

image.png.e9b8f3b7e8dd4d61ce8b9eba0c8ee795.png

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Your snippet calls out the "or" I referred to in the second paragraph.

 

 "a pension certificate OR  individual income tax return ..."

 

This is not important for most, but others who receive some or all of their pensions tax exempt and thus their tax returns would not reflect all of their retirement income.

image.png.43e3a069d7890b53b7bf441e2394ddc0.png

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1 hour ago, mudcat said:

Your snippet calls out the "or" I referred to in the second paragraph.

 

 "a pension certificate OR  individual income tax return ..."

 

This is not important for most, but others who receive some or all of their pensions tax exempt and thus their tax returns would not reflect all of their retirement income.

image.png.43e3a069d7890b53b7bf441e2394ddc0.png

Yea....but the first bullet in the income evidence block still calls for a tax return.   

My gut feeling is sometime around the Nov 2022 time frame BoI changed their internal LTR application requirements to generally require a tax return even when having solid proof from pension certificates/letters...but that requirement is just now showing as mandatory in their published checklist.  And I expect any inability to provide a tax return would require a very good reason as to why one could not be provided since folks with LTR visa type income would have an annual income tax return.

 

And I'm sure BoI realizes pension amounts shown on pension certificates/letters will not always show up on a tax return due to some pensions being totally or partially non-taxable/non-reportable on a tax return.  That was definitely the case in my LTR application since several of my govt pensions are fully or partially tax reportable.

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9 hours ago, Pib said:

And I expect any inability to provide a tax return would require a very good reason as to why one could not be provided since folks with LTR visa type income would have an annual income tax return.

Somebody on fb posted she told the BOI she did not have a tax return since she was not living in any single country long enough to become tax resident and the BOI accepted this

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On 4/17/2023 at 3:44 PM, Pib said:

And I expect any inability to provide a tax return would require a very good reason as to why one could not be provided since folks with LTR visa type income would have an annual income tax return.

Don't think this can be pertinent to most applicants who have been living for years in Thailand and aren't considered as resident for tax purposes by their country of origin. I know that for US folks this is somewhat different...

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Will be interesting to see how serious BoI gets over tax returns especially for those who supposedly don't have any type of tax return due to whatever reason.  But I expect BoI is getting smarter as time goes along as to which nationalities and/or in which situations an applicant should have tax returns to backup/support any other income proof they provide.  Time will tell.  

 

I just looked at each of the LTR categories Required Docs Checklists dtd 16 March 2023 and for the Global Citizen, Work from Thailand, and Highly Skilled Professional checklist categories each has the following statement regarding income proof.   That is, provide a tax returns for 2 years. 

 

image.png.93d4b88affdfe8663836998e9d74d364.png

 

 

Now the Pensioner category also talks 2 years of tax returns "along with" pension certificate or tax return.  To me I'm still not sure if that means just providing pension certificates/letters/docs is good enough or they will also want tax returns.  Yes, I do see the "or" in that statement.   I do know for me late last year when I applied and was approved for a Pensioner visa I initially just submitted U.S. govt pension certificates/letters/statements proving required pension income but the BoI still came back to me with an additional document request asking for my tax return which I did provide.

 

image.png.eb3cbc908c8055b4f872036c14ba538d.png

 

 

And the Dependents category did not have any income doc requirements.

 

Hopefully we will see more feedback in this thread from those who recently applied for an LTR visa (say since 1 Jan 2023) and didn't initially provide a tax return.   Feedback in terms of the BoI accepted/approved the application without a tax return OR the BoI also requested a tax return(s) before further consideration/processing of the application.

 

 

Edited by Pib
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Seems to be that the visa.boi.go.th web site is working good today.  Had a nice chat with the BOI LTR unit folks as well as the IT Group.  Seems they have worked out all of the bugs that were bogging down my profile and application in the system which still had it showing appointment needed, and it now finally shows a status of Complete.  Apparently, because I was one of the first ones to have the LTRWP visa issued in country, it never was truly entered into the BOI System as issued due to early bugs. 

 

Immigrations system shows it was issued, but in order for the BOI to enter it as logged into there system completely as issued, I had to send them copies of all the paperwork they had issued, this included the official letter and the small sheet which showed the visa information.  I also had to send them PDF's of the Bio page of my passport as well as the PDF's of the Visa stamps entered into my PP.  They then created a virtual appointment, where they actually scheduled me as if I had gone into the BOI Office today, and they then uploaded all of the documents into the system and cleared me out as far as now being Complete.

 

image.png.099a15b47bcab12f4a509a147a6333e5.png

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HerewardtheWake,

   Congrats.  Total time from application submittal to endorsement/approval was 1 month 4 days.....that's pretty fast considering the long Songkron holidays occurred during that time frame.  Heck, a person couldn't even login into their BoI LTR online acct from 13-17 April due to BoI shutting down login capability supposedly "for maintenance" but I expect it was purely a manning issue/all employees on holiday.  

 

    I'm assuming you got a LTR "Pensioner" visa since the BoI asked for some Form 1099R Pension/Annuity documentation?   Congrats again.

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On 4/3/2023 at 1:14 PM, aublumberg said:

FYI for those wondering about opening a bank account on the LTR visa, the BOI website has launched a new section: LTR Visa Thailand - Opening Bank Account In Thailand (boi.go.th)

 

On 4/3/2023 at 2:33 PM, Pib said:

Hey, this is good in at least two ways.  

 

1st: this will make opening a bank acct with Bangkok Bank or Kasikorn Bank easier if you have an LTR visa.   No need for a letter from your home country embassy, resident certificate, etc., that Thai banks have increasing been asking for....especially Bangkok Bank.  And I think it also shows Bangkok Bank and Kasikorn Bank are putting out a welcome mat to LTR visa holders as they know BoI, Immigration, and other govt agencies will have thoroughly vetted LTR visa holders and the higher than average income an LTR visa holder often processes. 

 

2nd:  it looks like the BoI is now starting to enhance the BoI LTR web site.....starting off by starting a "Manage LTR Visa" section which I'm sure will expand with other helpful info.......hopefully make it more like BoI SMART website which offers a LOT more visa practical/management info.

 

 

 

Above I earlier said, "And I think it also shows Bangkok Bank and Kasikorn Bank are putting out a welcome mat to LTR visa holders as they know BoI, Immigration, and other govt agencies will have thoroughly vetted LTR visa holders and the higher than average income an LTR visa holder often processes."  

 

When I was scanning thru the government "Elite Visa" website site I stumbled across an Elite visa FAQ talking about opening a bank account and apparently the Elite Visa folks have a contract with Bangkok Bank and Kasikorn Bank which allows Elite visa members to easily open bank accounts (see snapshot/quote at bottom). I expect the BoI LTR agency just piggy backed on/duplicated the contract to also allow LTR visa holders to also easily open bank accts with Bangkok Bank and Kasikorn bank.

 

 

https://www.thailandelite.com/faq/

image.png.ea1c650c50719aa039bc191b71e78ff9.png

 

 

 

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57 minutes ago, Alotoftravel said:


Hi,

are we considered foreign residents to avoid below  and if so any idea how airlines can determine ?

image.jpeg

As far as I can see, unless you have a Work Permit or or are on a Diplomatic passport for your country and meet those exceptions being a foreign resident is not what a LTR Visa gives us as we are not considered to be a foreign resident. To be a foreign resident in Thailand you need to have applied for Permanent Residency through the Thai Permanent Residency program attained through the  Royal Thai Immigration Commission.

 

https://www.thaiembassy.com/thailand-visa/permanent-residence-thailand

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1 hour ago, Alotoftravel said:


Hi,

are we considered foreign residents to avoid below  and if so any idea how airlines can determine ?

image.jpeg

I expect you would be "if", repeat, if you got the Digital Work Permit with your LTR.   Accepting or declining the work permit was an option when applying for the LTR.    I expect authorities will be looking for a current/valid work permit stamp in a person's passport and/or however the new digital work permit can be shown to authorities.

 

Like for me when I applied for my LTR Pensioner visa I declined the work permit since I'm retired, didn't want to submit the extra paperwork required, didn't want to pay the extra Bt3K per year for the work permit where if I understood a previous poster (Misty I think it was) a person had to pay Bt15K for the work permit since the LTR visa is issued in 5 year increments.

 

One of main reasons of the date push back to Sep 2023 is because airlines don't want to get involved in trying to figure out which people would not have to pay the fee.  Thai govt trying to get the airlines to do the govt's job.

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3 hours ago, Pib said:

I expect you would be "if", repeat, if you got the Digital Work Permit with your LTR.   Accepting or declining the work permit was an option when applying for the LTR.    I expect authorities will be looking for a current/valid work permit stamp in a person's passport and/or however the new digital work permit can be shown to authorities.

 

Like for me when I applied for my LTR Pensioner visa I declined the work permit since I'm retired, didn't want to submit the extra paperwork required, didn't want to pay the extra Bt3K per year for the work permit where if I understood a previous poster (Misty I think it was) a person had to pay Bt15K for the work permit since the LTR visa is issued in 5 year increments.

 

One of main reasons of the date push back to Sep 2023 is because airlines don't want to get involved in trying to figure out which people would not have to pay the fee.  Thai govt trying to get the airlines to do the govt's job.

It will be interesting to see if people who hold the LTR visa have to pay this "tourism fee". 

 

I wouldn't have thought so.  An LTR visa holder is a foreign resident and is not a tourist.  Shouldn't matter whether the LTR visa holder has a digital work permit. 

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On 4/27/2023 at 10:19 PM, Misty said:

It will be interesting to see if people who hold the LTR visa have to pay this "tourism fee". 

 

I wouldn't have thought so.  An LTR visa holder is a foreign resident and is not a tourist.  Shouldn't matter whether the LTR visa holder has a digital work permit. 

Yes, you would think the fact that the word "Resident" is in the name of the visa itself would make this pretty clear, but I don't think the people who dreamt up this fee actually have any idea what categories of foreigners exist in Thailand. 

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On 4/27/2023 at 6:19 PM, Misty said:

It will be interesting to see if people who hold the LTR visa have to pay this "tourism fee". 

 

I wouldn't have thought so.  An LTR visa holder is a foreign resident and is not a tourist.  Shouldn't matter whether the LTR visa holder has a digital work permit. 

Realistically, this decision will probably less be made based on any notion of "fairness", but based on how to get the most money out of foreigners.  Do LTR visa holders get local pricing for entering national parks?  Are they protected against inflated foreigner pricing in hospitals? ...

Edited by K2938
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1 hour ago, K2938 said:

Realistically, this decision will probably less be made based on any notion of "fairness", but based on how to get the most money out of foreigners.  Do LTR visa holders get local pricing for entering national parks?  Are they protected against inflated foreigner pricing in hospitals? ...

Yes, we'll have to see how it's applied.  Remember though that NonB visa holders are supposedly exempt from this tourist fee.  Yet speaking as a former NonB visa holder for nearly 30 years, NonB visa holders are usually subject to the higher pricing that all foreigners are subject to, elsewhere. 

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I haven't flew out of Thailand in many years....it's my understanding the current "departure/exit" fee (tax) is included in the airline ticket vs a person paying the fee separately at the airport to to the govt when leaving like it use to be many years ago.   Or said another way the airlines collect the departure fee when selling the ticket and later pass the fee the Thai govt versus the Thai govt directly collecting fee at the airport.

 

Assuming the departure fee is collected by the airlines are there currently any exceptions?   If none I can understand why airlines don't kick-and-bite too much about collecting such a fee as administratively/software programming-wise it's a lot easier than trying to collect a fee that may have a lot of exceptions....a lot of exceptions like the new proposed "entry" fee.  

 

Now if the govt can't convince/steamroll the airlines into collecting the new entry fee "with exceptions" (and remember the airlines don't doing such a fee with exceptions) the govt might delete the exceptions just to get the airlines to start collecting the fee OR the govt would have to start collecting the fee themselves as you entered Thailand....another obstacle to get thru....obstacles like immigration, customs, and now payment of any entry fee.....AND/OR the govt could collect the fee on everyone but then offer a refund process for Thai's and some other exceptions....a refund process nobody would probably like.   OR the govt could ????????

 

Will be interesting to see what the govt and airlines finally agree to (or continue to disagree on).   This entry fee has already been delayed several times due to problems--like how to collect the fee.   Time will tell.

 

Fortunately it's not an issue in the LTR application process....instead, just some folks wondering if the new fee would apply to those with LTR visas.  

 

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 I arrived in bkk last night 4-5-2023 and only received the visa stamp ltrp (evisa and it states multi on it) and not a multi entry stamp along with it. Has it changed or do I need to go to immigration and have multi stamp added? I have my evisa paperwork with the multi listed on it tucked in my passport just in case. 

Regards

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1 hour ago, tomm12 said:

 I arrived in bkk last night 4-5-2023 and only received the visa stamp ltrp (evisa and it states multi on it) and not a multi entry stamp along with it. Has it changed or do I need to go to immigration and have multi stamp added? I have my evisa paperwork with the multi listed on it tucked in my passport just in case. 

Regards

 

No need to go to BoI immigration and have a multi-entry stamp entered since your evisa states multi-entry.  Misty entered on an LTR evisa like you just did and visited with BoI on the question you are asking.   See Misty's 19 Dec 2022 post at the bottom and a partial quote from her post regarding your question.

 

Quote

* Regarding stamps in passports, LTR e-visa holders do not get or need any additional re-entry stamps. The LTR e-visa itself (digital pdf and/or print-out) is the equivalent to a stamp in the passport.  On the LTR e-visa, it clearly says "multiple entry" and apparently that is all that is needed. The BoI staff suggested I keep a copy folded up in my passport when I travel internationally. 

 

 

Misty's 19 Dec 2022 post below.

 

 

 

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12 minutes ago, Pib said:

 

No need to go to BoI immigration and have a multi-entry stamp entered since your evisa states multi-entry.  Misty entered on an LTR evisa like you just did and visited with BoI on the question you are asking.   See Misty's 19 Dec 2022 post at the bottom and a partial quote from her post regarding your question.

 

 

 

Misty's 19 Dec 2022 post below.

Thank you for the quick response. I was reading through the responses and saw a picture of the stamps from one of the posters and it had both stamps listed, It looks like I did not read far enough.

 Thank you again,

 

 

 

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