LTR Visa is Now available for Long Term Residency

[Pib]

I haven't flew out of Thailand in many years....it's my understanding the current "departure/exit" fee (tax) is included in the airline ticket vs a person paying the fee separately at the airport to to the govt when leaving like it use to be many years ago.   Or said another way the airlines collect the departure fee when selling the ticket and later pass the fee the Thai govt versus the Thai govt directly collecting fee at the airport.

 

Assuming the departure fee is collected by the airlines are there currently any exceptions?   If none I can understand why airlines don't kick-and-bite too much about collecting such a fee as administratively/software programming-wise it's a lot easier than trying to collect a fee that may have a lot of exceptions....a lot of exceptions like the new proposed "entry" fee.  

 

Now if the govt can't convince/steamroll the airlines into collecting the new entry fee "with exceptions" (and remember the airlines don't doing such a fee with exceptions) the govt might delete the exceptions just to get the airlines to start collecting the fee OR the govt would have to start collecting the fee themselves as you entered Thailand....another obstacle to get thru....obstacles like immigration, customs, and now payment of any entry fee.....AND/OR the govt could collect the fee on everyone but then offer a refund process for Thai's and some other exceptions....a refund process nobody would probably like.   OR the govt could ????????

 

Will be interesting to see what the govt and airlines finally agree to (or continue to disagree on).   This entry fee has already been delayed several times due to problems--like how to collect the fee.   Time will tell.

 

Fortunately it's not an issue in the LTR application process....instead, just some folks wondering if the new fee would apply to those with LTR visas.  

 

[tomm12]

 I arrived in bkk last night 4-5-2023 and only received the visa stamp ltrp (evisa and it states multi on it) and not a multi entry stamp along with it. Has it changed or do I need to go to immigration and have multi stamp added? I have my evisa paperwork with the multi listed on it tucked in my passport just in case. 

Regards

[Pib]

1 hour ago, tomm12 said:

 I arrived in bkk last night 4-5-2023 and only received the visa stamp ltrp (evisa and it states multi on it) and not a multi entry stamp along with it. Has it changed or do I need to go to immigration and have multi stamp added? I have my evisa paperwork with the multi listed on it tucked in my passport just in case. 

Regards

 

No need to go to BoI immigration and have a multi-entry stamp entered since your evisa states multi-entry.  Misty entered on an LTR evisa like you just did and visited with BoI on the question you are asking.   See Misty's 19 Dec 2022 post at the bottom and a partial quote from her post regarding your question.

 

Quote

* Regarding stamps in passports, LTR e-visa holders do not get or need any additional re-entry stamps. The LTR e-visa itself (digital pdf and/or print-out) is the equivalent to a stamp in the passport.  On the LTR e-visa, it clearly says "multiple entry" and apparently that is all that is needed. The BoI staff suggested I keep a copy folded up in my passport when I travel internationally. 

 

 

Misty's 19 Dec 2022 post below.

 

 

 

[tomm12]

12 minutes ago, Pib said:

 

No need to go to BoI immigration and have a multi-entry stamp entered since your evisa states multi-entry.  Misty entered on an LTR evisa like you just did and visited with BoI on the question you are asking.   See Misty's 19 Dec 2022 post at the bottom and a partial quote from her post regarding your question.

 

 

 

Misty's 19 Dec 2022 post below.

Thank you for the quick response. I was reading through the responses and saw a picture of the stamps from one of the posters and it had both stamps listed, It looks like I did not read far enough.

 Thank you again,

 

 

 

[Cocon]

so if you have an LTR Visa wealthy pensioner, is it possible to get a digital work permit, to work on a Thai Company, and do the Thai Company need 4 Thai staff for this work permit?

[Misty]

21 minutes ago, Cocon said:

so if you have an LTR Visa wealthy pensioner, is it possible to get a digital work permit, to work on a Thai Company, and do the Thai Company need 4 Thai staff for this work permit?

Yes you can get a digital work permit to work for a Thai company, and no the 4 Thai staff are not needed.

[Cocon]

1 hour ago, Misty said:

Yes you can get a digital work permit to work for a Thai company, and no the 4 Thai staff are not needed.

Thanks Misty that's interesting!

[Pib]

 

BoI has just announced on 9 May 2023 an initial list of LTR Visa Certified Agents (CA)....that is, visa agents approved by BoI to assist people in the LTR Visa application process.  See below post for more info.

 

 

[ThailandRyan]

7 minutes ago, Pib said:

 

BoI has just announced on 9 May 2023 an initial list of LTR Visa Certified Agents (CA)....that is, visa agents approved by BoI to assist people in the LTR Visa application process.  See below post for more info.

 

 

Thank you @Pib I know many have been waiting to see what help these agents can give them with the needed paperwork and acting as a go between.  Folks need to remember that these agents will be held to the letter of the policy which BOI has for issuing these Visas.

[Pib]

Applicants need to understand also that a will CA charge their own fee which is "above and beyond" the basic BoI/Immigration LTR visa fee of Bt50K.  I only took a very quick look at those CAs providing a website for more info and one of them lists their fee as Bt85K.

[JimGant]

On 5/9/2023 at 8:58 PM, ThailandRyan said:

and acting as a go between. 

I can do my own paperwork, but I'm getting slightly wobbly to travel. Thus, I'd gladly pay an agent to courier my paperwork, and act as my power of attorney, to go to Bangkok to get the visa. But, I guess this isn't part of the package....

[Pib]

3 minutes ago, JimGant said:

I can do my own paperwork, but I'm getting slightly wobbly to travel. Thus, I'd gladly pay an agent to courier my paperwork, and act as my power of attorney, to go to Bangkok to get the visa. But, I guess this isn't part of the package....

I would be interesting to know exactly "what type/level of assistance" a LTR CA could provide for an applicant versus a generic overview of available assistance.   

 

Of the four CAs currently listed on the BoI website and taking a quick look at the CAs web pages (with the exception of the Thai Relo Services CA weblink which does not work for me as it just opens as a blank white screen and is also an unsecure (HTTP) weblink vs a secure (HTTPS) weblink) the only info I found on the CA webpages regarding the level of service provided was on the True Digital Park CA webpage....see snapshot at bottom....which was very little detail.   And I couldn't find even below level of detail at the other CA webpages...pretty much they all ask that an interested applicant to contact them for more info.   

 

@JimGant, I see StarVisaServices in your town of Chiang Mai is one of the CAs....if not already done so, maybe contact them for more detail as to how much assistance they can provide.  Heck, maybe these CAs will be given the power to transport an applicant to a near by immigration office/BoI regional office for the final issue of an LTR visa...that is, where they need to take your picture and fingerprints before stamping in the Permitted to Stay LTR stamp.  There is a BoI regional office in Chiang Mai and of course they have a immigration office that you currently use.  But my gut feeling is it's probably going to require a visit to the BoI and Immigration Office in Bangkok at Chamchuri Square for the final inking/issue of the LTR visa when a person selects to have the LTR visa issued within Thailand vs the outside Thailand via the evisa method.  

 

 

From True Digital Park LTR CA webpage regarding services provided.''

[dfg42]

@Misty Seems you are the only one that has received a work permit using the WP category so perhaps you know this. Are there any caveats to the type of company you can work for besides the normal restrictions for foreigners? Specifically, I guess I want to know if its limited to the HSP targeted categories or BOI promoted companies? You mentioned that you are sponsoring your own work permit via your company. Is your company a BOI promoted company??

 

For anyone, was it determined if working while on an LTR visa would qualify for PR after 3 years or is that still limited to the NonO and NonB?

[Misty]

2 hours ago, dfg42 said:

@Misty Seems you are the only one that has received a work permit using the WP category so perhaps you know this. Are there any caveats to the type of company you can work for besides the normal restrictions for foreigners? Specifically, I guess I want to know if its limited to the HSP targeted categories or BOI promoted companies? You mentioned that you are sponsoring your own work permit via your company. Is your company a BOI promoted company??

 

For anyone, was it determined if working while on an LTR visa would qualify for PR after 3 years or is that still limited to the NonO and NonB?

Hi dfg42 - my company is not a BoI promoted company.  Getting a digital work permit under the LTR program is not limited beyond normal restrictions, to the best of my knowledge.

 

I'm not aware if working under the LTR visa could be used to qualify for PR status.  For my situation, LTR is actually better than PR so I no longer have interest in PR. I don't separately need a to get a work permit and am not required to have 4 Thai employees.  I also like that the LTR application process was clean.  It didn't involve the "VIP service fees" and other shenanigans that applying for PR did.

[Pib]

9 hours ago, dfg42 said:

For anyone, was it determined if working while on an LTR visa would qualify for PR after 3 years or is that still limited to the NonO and NonB?

I'm only guessing but I expect an LTR visa will qualify as the PR regulation was written saying a person needed a long term non-immigrant visa of 1 year in length for 3 consecutive years because when the PR regulation was written before the LTR visa came into existence last year. 

 

I would think it's just a matter of the regulation/guidance being updated to include the LTR visa since an LTR via allows a 5 year stay per each Permitted to Stay Stamp which is longer than the 1 year Permitted to Stay stamp of a Non Immigration 1 year visa.....plus, the LTR visa allows a work permit which means the person can work, pay Thai taxes, etc., to meet the other PR requirement. 

 

Yea, I'm guessing, but I don't see why an LTR visa would not satisfy PR visa requirements.   Hopefully there will be some official, written clarification in the near future....but we all know Thai time many times runs slower than normal time. 

 

From the Bangkok Immigration Website

https://www.immigration.go.th/wp-content/uploads/2021/11/2.2คำแนะนำอังกฤษ-2565-legal.pdf

[bobble07]

Hi a couple of questions on the Work from Thailand for Professionals LTR visa

 

1) I will be working for a UK limited company which is part of a much larger international group.. whilst the Uk company does not meet the threshold of $150m the parent company is listed on the NYSE and well exceeds that. Will that be permissable?

 

2) I currently meet the requirement of having earned over $80k for each of the last 2 years, but it is likely I would have to take a salary sacrifice below this to work in Thailand. The requirements list only talks about earnings in the last 2 years up to the application. Would this be permissable

 

3) I am thinking of doing a $150 consultation with BE Laws to try and get definitive answers to the above.. does this seem worth it? or can anyone recommend other legal professionals to speak to about this..?

Edited May 16, 2023 by bobble07

[K2938]

22 hours ago, bobble07 said:

Hi a couple of questions on the Work from Thailand for Professionals LTR visa

 

1) I will be working for a UK limited company which is part of a much larger international group.. whilst the Uk company does not meet the threshold of $150m the parent company is listed on the NYSE and well exceeds that. Will that be permissable?

 

2) I currently meet the requirement of having earned over $80k for each of the last 2 years, but it is likely I would have to take a salary sacrifice below this to work in Thailand. The requirements list only talks about earnings in the last 2 years up to the application. Would this be permissable

 

3) I am thinking of doing a $150 consultation with BE Laws to try and get definitive answers to the above.. does this seem worth it? or can anyone recommend other legal professionals to speak to about this..?

Re 1):  I have read a social media post of somebody in a similar situation who was first rejected, but then managed to convince the BOI that working for the subsidiary is the same thing as working for the parent. 

Re 3)  Talking to the BOI is the only thing which can help and even then you might find that what they first tell you does not turn out to be true.  So while $150 is not a huge amount of money, you would be deluded thinking that a law firm could give you an authoritative answer.

[oldcpu]

I finally obtained approval for the LTR visa (wealthy pensioner).  Applied 17-Jan-2023, email endorsement on 22-May-2023, email advising approval on 28-May-2023, picked up visa on 6-June-2023 and a 10-year Visa now valid until 24-May-2033 (with a 5-year permission to stay in Thailand until 5-June-2028).

 

I applied under the category where one has to prove a passive income of the equivalent of $40,000 US/year and an investment in Thailand equivalent to $250,000 US or greater.  I went the 'self health insurance' route.  That's the short story. The long story is much longer.

 

DETAILS (somewhat long - for the curious)

 

Investment in Thailand:

 

Since I went for the equivalent $40,000 US/year approach, I needed to show an approximate $250K US investment in Thailand.

 

The condo I purchased in 2016 qualified as an investment, but since it was registered in both my name and in my wife's name, I could only claim 50% of the value. Thus back in December-2022 I purchased via Bangkok Bank the amount of 2,000,000 THB in Thai government bonds (7-year maturity), so to push me well above the $250,000 US$ equivalent investment in Thailand. Purchasing the bonds was not straight forward. I posted previous on this.

 

In regards to the Thai Government bond that I bought, the Bangkok Bank only issued me a "Bond bankbook" which listed the bond series and serial number, but did not specifically state the bond term nor its maturity/redemption date.  I uploaded to BoI a copy of my Bond Book, but BoI did not initially accept that.  I phoned BoI and they stated they wanted a "Bond Certificate".  I went to Bangkok Bank and applied for a Bond Certificate. However after almost a few weeks (with me constantly phoning Bangkok Bank to obtain status) I was advised that Bangkok Bank would not issue me a Bond Certificate for this scriptless Thai government bond.  Instead they issued me a letter (confirming my ownership of the bond) and updated my Bond Book to provide details of the series of Thai government bond (7 year term/maturity and the redemption date in year 2029).  I sent a copy of that to BoI and it was accepted in lieu of a Bond certificate.

 

PROOF OF PASSIVE INCOME > $40K US$/year equivalent

 

My proving that I meet the $40k/year US$ equivalent was perhaps a bit unusual for BoI, as I have worked/lived in both Canada and Germany (most of which was in a European government organisation).  So my pension incomes are diverse (European government organisation pension, small German pension, and Canadian Old Age Security (OAS), but no Canadian Pension yet (I have deferred such to age-70)).  

 

My German pension is so small that a few years back the German government in a formal letter to me requested that I (as a non-resident to Germany) do NOT submit a tax return to Germany (unless my German income situation changes), so I have no German tax return to show BoI.  I do thou pay a small withholding tax at source to Germany on my small German pension. I suspect my German pension is too small for the the German government to be bothered with the time/effort on their part to process such a small tax return.  

 

As a non-resident of Canada (where I worked in Canada for years) I do pay tax to Canada on my also small Canadian Old Age Security (OAS) and I must declare to Canada ALL of my World Wide Income.  Unlike Germany, Canada DOES want me to file an income tax return every year even thou my my Canadian OAS amount is small.  Canada doesn't mind spending the time/effort to process such a small tax return as my Canadian income.

 

Most of my passive pension income is from the European Government organisation, and for taxes that organisation requires I comply with the law of the country in which I am residing for tax payment on that pension (where my residency is now Thailand).  

 

So for providing tax returns to provide to BoI, in mid-January I provided to BOI my year 2020 and year 2021 Canadian Tax assessments (where the Canadian Tax assessment lists the TOTAL of my World Wide Income).  In February, BoI in an information request, insisted on also having my year 2022 Canadian tax return, so later (at their request) I sent them a year-2022 Canadian tax assessment of my World Wide Income ... This took some time to prepare, as this was early in year 2023 and it was nominally still a bit early to submit my previous year 2022 tax return to Canada.

 

Since I was sending Canadian tax return assessments, BoI additionally asked me for tax proof of my receiving a Canadian pension (ie they asked for a Canadian T4A tax document).  I had to explain to BoI that while I am age-69, I don't YET get a Canadian pension as I deferred receiving my Canadian Pension to when I reach age 70 (hence I only plan to start receiving a Canadian pension next year).  Thus I had no Canadian T4A form to provide to them.

 

Instead I provided to BoI my official pension documents of my European Government organisation pension (euros) and official documents (for tax returns) for my Canadian Old Age Security (Canadian$).  I did NOT provide to BoI my German pension official pension proof (which is in euros) for tax returns, as it is in German language and I wanted to avoid having to obtain a German to English certified translation.  OK, I'm lazy. Besides, I already, without including the German pension, met the $40,000 US$ equivalent passive income requirement.

 

SELF HEALTH INSURANCE PROOF

 

I have excellent European health insurance that covers both myself and my Thai wife and it exceeds the LTR Visa Health Insurance requirements.  However my European insurance company will NOT provide proof in the EXACT form that BoI requires.  So I decided to go the "Self Insurance" route for the LTR Visa.

 

I previously provided proof of funds >$100k US$ equivalent. BoI then asked that I provide proof that those funds were present for more than 1 year. I then provided that proof (cash > $100 US$) from an account in Canada of the funds in place for >1-year, but BoI then rejected that as they noted that was an investment/equity account.  So I then provided proof of cash funds >$100K US$ equivalent in a Canadian self directed Registered Retirement Savings Plan (RRSP )(similar to USA 401(k)) where funds were in place for > 1-year,  which was also rejected and not accepted by BoI.  So then I tried providing proof of funds >$100 US$ equivalent with a Foreign Currency Account in Krungsri Bank in Thailand (the funds in that account are in Euros) which had been in place for > 1-year, which was accepted by BoI.

 

EXTRA PAPERWORK REQUESTS

 

I had a total of 11 requests for more documents, where in 6 of the 11 cases, BoI already had the documents, and I simply uploaded the document again, with a PDF cover page better explaining the documents to them.  I assume my initial first upload explanations (or lack there of) were totally inadequate.

 

For the Investment in Thailand (condo ownership and price paid proof), I initially only provided a copy of the Or-Chor-2 (the Chanote) and a copy of the Real Estate agent's buy/sell signed agreement. BoI didn't want the Real Estate agent's buy/sell agreement but rather BoI wanted the official Or-Chor-16 (buy/sell land office document) copy which I subsequently sent to BoI.

 

BIGGEST DELAY

 

As noted, when I applied (in mid-Jan-2023) I initially provided my year 2020 and year 2021 Canadian income tax documents to BoI, but BOI subsequently asked for my year 2022 income tax documents.  But I had not yet submitted my 2022 income tax return to Canada. In fact I still had not received all my year-2022 pension tax documents from the issuing government authorities (so I it was difficult to do my 20222 income tax return). ... So I had to wait a bit for the year-2022 tax paperwork (associated with my pensions) to arrive, and then quickly submit my year 2022 income tax to Canada, and then provide the subsequent Revenue Canada income and tax assessments to the BoI. This took time.

 

And as noted, BoI wanted a Bond Certificate and not just a Bond Book for my proof of 2-million THB Thai Government bond investment in Thailand and that also took me time to sort with Bangkok Bank and BoI.

 

TIME FRAMES

 

I applied 17-January, and I obtained my LTR endorsement in 22-May, and official approval notification on 28-May, and I picked up my LTR Visa in Bangkok on 6-June-2023. Not quite 5-months to obtain.

 

Note that in my case, I was in no hurry to obtain the LTR Visa,  as my permission to stay in Thailand was already until February-2024 (from a one year extension on a Type-O visa, for reason of retirement).

 

DIFFICULTY

 

The most difficult part ?  For me?

 

The most difficult part for me was me satisfying the BoI request for official paperwork on the Thai government bond maturity and redemption date, which is not normally in a scriptless Thai Government Bond book. Banks don't normally issue a bond certificate, and now issue 'scriptless' bonds.  In the end I obtained a letter from Bangkok bank confirming my bond ownership and obtained an update to my Bond Book which listed the bond maturity (7 years) and its redemption date in December-2029.

 

The next most difficult part, was providing proof of a Bank Account with the necessary $100K USD equivalent in cash for self Health Insurance. BoI did not accept the first two accounts I used (for self health insurance, even thou they had the cash funds), but fortunately I had another account I could use for that proof of the $100K US$ equivalent for self Health Insurance.

 

THE LONGEST PART ?

 

The longest part for me was waiting for my year-2022 tax documents (from Germany, European organisation, and Canada), so I could submit my year-2022 tax return, and then after submitting I had to in turn wait for the Canadian government to assess my year-2022 tax return and reply to me (where I could then send that assessment to BoI).

 

I suspect my application took longer than most (?) as my proof for the passive pension (with their request for Tax returns) and my proof of the investment in Thailand, came from multiple diverse sources, and further my income tax situation is a bit non-standard, and BoI were very particular as to which type of financial account they would accept for self Health Insurance.

 

THE REPETITIOUS AND PUZZLING PART (for me)?

 

Having to prove I met the Health Insurance requirements, when I already had excellent Health Insurance was possibly the part that applied here.  Since my European Insurance company would NOT provide information in the form that BoI wanted, I could not confirm to BoI satisfaction that my excellent European health insurance met the BoI requirements (even thou it exceeds such).  Hence I went the self insurance route (cash funds > $100K US$ equivalent for over 1-year) and showing BoI that I had that money in cash in a bank for that 2 year time frame, resulted in a few submission iterations with BoI, before BoI's final acceptance of one of my bank accounts.

 

THE EASIEST PART ?

 

The easiest part for me was being able to upload the many forms/paperwork requested, from the luxury of my beach front condo, sipping a cool drink while overlooking the sea.  It sure beats lining up for hours at an immigration office.

 

The interesting part ?

 

Perhaps the most interesting part, was needing to go from Phuket to Bangkok, to obtain the LTR visa.  My Thai wife and I had a soon to expire voucher from Dusit Thani 5-star hotel for three weekday nights in their hotel (that expired end June).  So my wife and I felt fortunate we could thus use that voucher for comfortable Bangkok accommodations.  ... Its been a while since I stayed in Bangkok, so picking up the Visa in Bangkok, was a good excuse to travel there.

 

Prior to heading to Bankgok, I went to a local photo store and had some passport sized images taken of me (wearing a shirt and tie). For Bangkok I took long pants, a shirt, and shoes (and not sandals) to wear in the BOI office.   My being retired, its been years since I last wore a dress shirt and shoes, so that was unusual for me to dress up so.  

 

We stayed in a Dusit Thani Suites hotel not far from the BoI offices (a short MTR/BTS couple of stops).  

 

BoI had a representative mostly 'hold my hand' through the process, where I brought way more paperwork than necessary (I was taking no chances).  That was very nice to have a 'guide'.

 

About 1/2 of the 18th floor (maybe less) is the BoI office, and the remainder is a Thai immigration office, where that office was very busy and mostly packed with people, a bit of a zoo.  When I had to go to immigration for part of the process, a BoI representative walked me to the front of any given line, bypassing a number of people waiting.  I felt a bit guilty at that (being given preference) but then again, I doubt many (any ? ) of them paid 50,000 Thai baht.

 

I have various Thai bank accounts so I transferred my 50,000 THB from one of them. I noted a big sign saying BoI would not accept bank transfers from UOB bank nor from ttb (?) bank .. nor would they accept cash.  Fortunately that did not cause me an issue.  I was curious if my 50,000 THB transfer would work, as this was the first time I transfered that amount with the new Thai rule that one might need photo verification as part of their transfer.  However I did not encounter any photo verification and the transfer 'just worked'.

 

FUTURE

 

My passport expires in five years, so I will have to have the LTR Visa transfered to a new passport just around the same time that I need to renew my five year permission to stay with the LTR visa.  My 7 year Thai Government Savings bond will only have 2 years left in its maturity (before redemption) in five years time, so I am already plannnig to buy a new 2-million baht Thai Government savings bond purchase at that time (in early 2028), so to obtain the second 5-year permission to stay of this 10-year Visa. That likely means I will have 4-million in Thai bonds for a couple of years. I am lucky, this is no big deal for myself - others might balk at this.

 

Ten years from now I will be 79, and I don't know if I will live to be age-89 ... so I have 10 years to decide if I wish to switch back to a non-immigrant Type-O visa in 2033, or if I go for another 10-year LTR visa and gamble that I will live to age 89 (assuming that LTR Visa and/or Type-O non-immigration visa are even around then).  I suspect my decision then will NOT be driven by money, but rater be driven by the convenience of the 10 year LTR Wealthy Pensioner vs the inconvenience of a non-immigrant Type-O visa (possibly more convenient if I end up using an agent in 10-years time with a shorter term visa) .
.

 

 

Edited June 6, 2023 by oldcpu

[Pib]

@oldcpu

Thanks and congrats.....awesome details of your LTR trek. 

 

And such details can really help potential applicants understand and possibly how to avoid potential potholes, detours, etc., along the way if they take the trek.   It pretty all comes down to good documentation to prove a person meets LTR requirements and how sometimes getting the required documentation takes some real effort.

 

Congrats again!!!! 

 

 

[anrcaccount]

1 hour ago, oldcpu said:

 

I finally obtained approval for the LTR visa

 

Great write up. Thank you for a good description. 

 

You have to question though, whether the effort you went to, plus the tying up of funds into bonds, plus a trip to BKK - stacks up vs the Elite Visa. 

 

You could have paid 1M baht, no effort otherwise, and had 20 years hassle free stay.

 

I can only guess at how many hours of your time was spent on this, hundreds and hundreds judging from the description.

 

But it is done now, it will be hassle free for you for 10 years, and it sounded like you enjoyed the challenge!

 

 

 

 

[Pib]

Getting an Elite visa is indeed easy.....folk-out a lot of money and pass the Thai police check and a person will get an Elite visa   

 

But for me choosing between Bt1M for a 20 year Elite visa OR assuming the LTR visa program continues for many years 2 times Bt50K (i.e., fee for two LTR visas covering 20 years) for a total of Bt100K I would go the LTR route and smile in the Bt900K savings which will grow a lot of interest and/or buy some very nice things over 20 years.  

 

 

[BritTim]

1 minute ago, Pib said:

Getting an Elite visa is indeed easy.....folk-out a lot of money and pass the Thai police check and a person will get an Elite visa   

 

But for me choosing between Bt1M for a 20 year Elite visa OR assuming the LTR visa program continues for many years 2 times Bt50K (i.e., fee for two LTR visas covering 20 years) for a total of Bt100K I would go the LTR route and smile in the Bt900K savings which will grow a lot of interest and/or buy some very nice things over 20 years.  

That is a bit simplistic isn't it? Keeping a lot of money in Thailand (investment plus self insurance) for 20 years will not be cost free for most.

[stuarty]

8 minutes ago, BritTim said:

That is a bit simplistic isn't it? Keeping a lot of money in Thailand (investment plus self insurance) for 20 years will not be cost free for most.

Just want to point out that for the self insurance part, the money ($100,000) doesn't have to be in Thailand. Also, if you have pension income of $80,000+ (?), then you don't need to have/keep any money in Thailand at all, for the LTR visa.

Edited June 6, 2023 by stuarty

[Pib]

8 minutes ago, BritTim said:

That is a bit simplistic isn't it? Keeping a lot of money in Thailand (investment plus self insurance) for 20 years will not be cost free for most.

Not simplistic for a top level cost analysis IMO.  For someone who has retired to Thailand, already owns their residence (or plans to buy), and has other investments in Thailand and other countries it pretty much boils down to the visa "upfront/fee" cost being the major cost deciding factor.   

 

Like oldcpu who initially tried to use a foreign investment/equity account to self-insure but since that investment account is really a bunch of stocks/mutual funds affected by stock market up "and downs" it could not be accepted by BoI.  In the initial months of the LTR program BoI did accept some investment accts but no more.  Instead, it must be a cash/bank type account like a savings/current/money market type acct or even a Foreign Currency Deposit (FCD) acct not affected by stock market up and downs....and that FCD is what oldcpu used since he's had it for years.  Oldcpu didn't have to move any money around between foreign and Thai accts; he just needed to find the right one to satisfy BoI. 

 

These self insure accounts can be in "any" country; not required to be Thailand accts.  And these foreign or Thailand accts can be used to meet the overall annual income requirement.  It's just when a person's pension/fixed income falls between the $40K-$80K USD that an additional investment of $250K in Thai govt bonds, investments, or property is required.  And if they already happen to own a Thai residence that cost at least $250K then that satisfies the $250K investment requirement when a person pension/fixed income is below Bt80K/year.  No investment required when pension/fixed income is at least $80K

 

Oldcpu has that Bt900K upfront fee savings to invest anywhere in the world.

 

[anrcaccount]

7 minutes ago, Pib said:

Not simplistic for a top level cost analysis IMO.  For someone who has retired to Thailand, already owns their residence (or plans to buy), and has other investments in Thailand and other countries it pretty much boils down to the visa "upfront/fee" cost being the major cost deciding factor.   

 

Like oldcpu who initially tried to use a foreign investment/equity account to self-insure but since that investment account is really a bunch of stocks/mutual funds affected by stock market up "and downs" it could not be accepted by BoI.  In the initial months of the LTR program BoI did accept some investment accts but no more.  Instead, it must be a cash/bank type account like a savings/current/money market type acct or even a Foreign Currency Deposit (FCD) acct not affected by stock market up and downs....and that FCD is what oldcpu used since he's had it for years.  Oldcpu didn't have to move any money around between foreign and Thai accts; he just needed to find the right one to satisfy BoI. 

 

These self insure accounts can be in "any" country; not required to be Thailand accts.  And these foreign or Thailand accts can be used to meet the overall annual income requirement.  It's just when a person's pension/fixed income falls between the $40K-$80K USD that an additional investment of $250K in Thai govt bonds, investments, or property is required.  And if they already happen to own a Thai residence that cost at least $250K then that satisfies the $250K investment requirement when a person pension/fixed income is below Bt80K/year.  No investment required when pension/fixed income is at least $80K

 

Oldcpu has that Bt900K upfront fee savings to invest anywhere in the world.

 

I'm not disagreeing with a single word you have written there. I would say though he needed to make an investment in Thai bonds he would not have made otherwise. 

 

But consider the effort required to satisfy the paperwork BOI needs.

 

You could apply for Elite in 15 minutes. 

 

I'm betting oldcpu spent hundreds of hours of time on this. Granted, that's fine and good on him.

 

Just making that point. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[oldcpu]

2 hours ago, anrcaccount said:

Great write up. Thank you for a good description. 

 

Thanks !  I am happy now that I have the Visa.

 

2 hours ago, anrcaccount said:

 

You have to question though, whether the effort you went to, plus the tying up of funds into bonds, plus a trip to BKK - stacks up vs the Elite Visa. 

 

You could have paid 1M baht, no effort otherwise, and had 20 years hassle free stay.

 

I can only guess at how many hours of your time was spent on this, hundreds and hundreds judging from the description.

Hundreds of hours? No - not by any means.

 

I did spend some time.

 

I think I spent (a) just under 2 hours to obtain the documents I thought I would need, back before my initial application on 17-Jan-2023.  (b) 1 hour for initial online application.  (c)  For buying the 2-million THB in Thailand government bonds I spent about 6 hours total: (1 hour visiting 4 different banks in Central Festival in Phuket, checking if any would sell me bonds + about 3 hours (mostly waiting @ bank) to order the bonds, and then 1 hour (mostly waiting at bank) to order bond certificate (which I didn't get) and then 1-hour (mostly waiting) at bank to get letter + amendment to bond book)).  (d) Then for each of 11 information requests, about 30-minutes to 1-hour dependent on request (and whether I phoned BoI as a result).  Say average of 45-minutes for about 8 hours total.

 

Some other things I did didn't cost me any extra time - as I either had to do such anyway, or I did it while waiting for my wife.  For example, for my Canadian taxes - I had to submit those anyway. Another example:  I did have to go to a Thai bank to get a bank statement to prove the >$100K USA equivalent (in Euros in a foreign currency deposit - because the online did not work for me due to a lack of account activity), but I timed that with a shopping trip (that my wife wanted me to go with her) so while she shopped I was able to get that statement quickly (and I have a Exclusive status with that bank, which means I get to relax in their lounge while waiting for the paperwork).

 

So in practice, total extra time, 2 + 1 + 6 + 8 = 17 hours. That's probably a massive over estimation. Definitely not hundreds.

 

Note thou, 11 hours of this ~17 hours were spent on my condo balcony, over looking the sea with a fabulous view, with a laptop computer on a table, my feet up on a stool, sipping cool drinks.  It was not bad at all.  I can not complain one bit.

 

I looked at the Elite Visa, but spending 1-million Thai baht that neither my wife nor myself would ever see again, didn't appeal to either of us.  Also, I could be dead in 15 years ... much less than 20 years. Perhaps if I was under age-50 I might consider it, but not at age-69.   So I rejected the Elite Visa, and possibly in 10 years time (in 2033) I might reject again going for the LTR Wealthy Pensioner visa.

 

However some do like the Elite Visa - and my view is if they are happy with that approach, then all the more to them and all the best wishes.

 

 

 

 

2 hours ago, anrcaccount said:

But it is done now, it will be hassle free for you for 10 years, and it sounded like you enjoyed the challenge!

 

Many thanks.   Being able to do the vast majority of the application and paper submission from the comfort of my condo made a truly MASSIVE difference.

 

As noted - I am happy I now have the LTR Visa.

Edited June 6, 2023 by oldcpu

[K2938]

1 hour ago, Pib said:

In the initial months of the LTR program BoI did accept some investment accts but no more.  Instead, it must be a cash/bank type account like a savings/current/money market type acct or even a Foreign Currency Deposit (FCD) acct not affected by stock market up and downs...

Very sad that the BOI made these changes.  So contrary to all expectations the BOI did not use the huge shortfall between forcasted and actual LTR visas issued as motivation to increase flexibility, but on the contrary tightened conditions.  The same apparently also applies to various conditions for the LTR-Work from Thailand visa.  Previously, for this it was enough if you are working for the subsidiary of a listed entity, now the listing requirement is only fulfilled if you work for the listed company itself, but not for any of its subsidiaries as most employees of a large listed group would which does not make any sense whatsoever.

[BritTim]

1 hour ago, anrcaccount said:

I'm not disagreeing with a single word you have written there. I would say though he needed to make an investment in Thai bonds he would not have made otherwise. 

 

But consider the effort required to satisfy the paperwork BOI needs.

 

You could apply for Elite in 15 minutes. 

 

I'm betting oldcpu spent hundreds of hours of time on this. Granted, that's fine and good on him.

 

Just making that point. 

Indeed, and if simply focussing on the cost of the visa, 10 years of regular retirement extensions of a Non O entry is 19,000 baht. There is an annual hassle with the extension, but a lot less than for the (admittedly one time) application for the LTR visa.

 

I think all options (LTR WP, Non O extensions and Elite) have their pros and cons, and different solutions will appeal to different people.

[ThailandRyan]

6 minutes ago, oldcpu said:

 

Thanks !  I am happy now that I have the Visa.

 

Hundreds of hours? No - not by any means.

 

I did spend some time.

 

I think I spent (a) just under 2 hours to obtain the documents I thought I would need, back before my initial application on 17-Jan-2023.  (b) 1 hour for initial online application.  (c)  For buying the 2-million THB in Thailand government bonds I spent about 6 hours total: (1 hour visiting 4 different banks in Central Festival in Phuket, checking if any would sell me bonds + about 3 hours (mostly waiting @ bank) to order the bonds, and then 1 hour (mostly waiting at bank) to order bond certificate (which I didn't get) and then 1-hour (mostly waiting) at bank to get letter + amendment to bond book)).  (d) Then for each of 11 information requests, about 30-minutes to 1-hour dependent on request (and whether I phoned BoI as a result).  Say average of 45-minutes for about 8 hours total.

 

Some other things I did didn't cost me any extra time - as I either had to do such anyway, or I did it while waiting for my wife.  For example, for my Canadian taxes - I had to submit those anyway. Another example:  I did have to go to a Thai bank to get a bank statement to prove the >$100K USA equivalent (in Euros in a foreign currency deposit - because the online did not work for me due to a lack of account activity), but I timed that with a shopping trip (that my wife wanted me to go with her) so while she shopped I was able to get that statement quickly (and I have a Exclusive status with that bank, which means I get to relax in their lounge while waiting for the paperwork).

 

So in practics, total extra time, 2 + 1 + 6 + 8 = 17 hours. That's probably a massive over estimation. Definitely not hundreds.

 

Note thou, 11 hours of this ~17 hours were spent on my condo balcony, over looking the sea with a fabulous view, with a laptop computer on a table, my feet up on a stool, sipping cool drinks.  It was not bad at all.  I can not complain one bit.

 

I looked at the Elite Visa, but spending 1-million Thai baht that neither my wife nor myself would ever see again, didn't appeal to either of us.  Also, I could be dead in 15 years ... much less than 20 years. Perhaps if I was under age-50 I might consider it, but not at age-69.   So I rejected the Elite Visa, and possibly in 10 years time (in 2033) I might reject again going for the LTR Wealth Pensioner visa.

 

However some do like the Elite Visa - and my view is if they are happy with that approach, then all the more to them and all the best wishes.

 

 

 

 

Many thanks.   Being able to do the vast majority of the application and paper submission from the comfort of my condo made a truly MASSIVE difference.

 

As noted - I am happy I now have the LTR Visa.

As we all have said, it isn't about the time spent putting it all in the system, but it is about what the LTR Visa brings to the table for us.  The other issue which we have discussed in the OP is that you can stay in the country for the next ten years, if you wish without leaving, and you only need to do a 1 year report, and we will not pay any annual extension fees like you would with an Elite Visa.

 

At the end of the 5th year it is just a resubmission of what's already in our files, and the paperwork they gave us all, after approval, indicating the Visa type and no further monies are needed , and we are good for another 5 years. 

 

As @Pib has stated at the end of the 10th year it is a recycle of our documents showing we still comply and off we go for another ten years for only 50K Thb.  So for me it was a no brainer.  With the changes to my Wifes Visa status, as we are now married, and the upcoming documentation under the dependent category, we will then be able to travel in and out without her needing a re-entry permit to keep her soon to be old extension of stay (Myanmar) from expiring.

[Felton Jarvis]

If I have the kind of income specified for this “visa”, the country involved had better be prepared to kneel and shine my shoes with their tongue. Thailand seems not to understand that when THAT kind of investment is made……..we OWN you.