LTR Visa is Now available for Long Term Residency

[mrmagyar]

Well this is something of a curveball for those of us with a freshly minted LTR Visa: https://www.thaienquirer.com/50744/thai-government-to-tax-all-income-from-abroad-for-tax-residents-starting-2024/

 

The commentary in the second related article suggests this is designed to be aimed at Thai's, but it seems LTR visa holders would be caught in the net: https://www.thaienquirer.com/50748/new-tax-regulations-raises-questions-and-concerns/

 

Quote

Thailand’s Revenue Department has recently thrown a curveball at tax residents with its new tax guidelines on foreign income. According to legal experts, the policy appears to have three specific targets: residents trading in foreign stock markets through foreign brokerages, cryptocurrency traders, and Thais who have been exploiting a loophole that allowed them to bring foreign earnings into the country tax-free after keeping it in an offshore account for more than a calendar year.

 

[K2938]

12 minutes ago, mrmagyar said:

The commentary in the second related article suggests this is designed to be aimed at Thai's, but it seems LTR visa holders would be caught in the net: https://www.thaienquirer.com/50748/new-tax-regulations-raises-questions-and-concerns/

How great that the Thai government now has all the financial/wealth information on LTR visa holders to make sure that they fully comply with the new tax rules...

[Pib]

4 hours ago, mrmagyar said:

Well this is something of a curveball for those of us with a freshly minted LTR Visa: https://www.thaienquirer.com/50744/thai-government-to-tax-all-income-from-abroad-for-tax-residents-starting-2024/

 

The commentary in the second related article suggests this is designed to be aimed at Thai's, but it seems LTR visa holders would be caught in the net: https://www.thaienquirer.com/50748/new-tax-regulations-raises-questions-and-concerns/

 

 

 

From the 1st article above it says those folks whose home country has a DTA with Thailand are exempt.  The U.S. & Thailand have a DTA. 

Quote

The program will begin January 1, 2024 and apply only to tax residents in Thailand meaning tourists and short term workers will be exempt. Also exempt will be those who have been taxed in a foreign country that has a standing Double Tax Agreement with Thailand.

 

The list of countries that Thailand has a DTA with are at below Thai Revenue Dept webpage.

https://www.rd.go.th/english/766.html

 

 

[JimGant]

36 minutes ago, Pib said:

Also exempt will be those who have been taxed in a foreign country

 

5 hours ago, mrmagyar said:

but it seems LTR visa holders would be caught in the net

My LTR application included my last year's tax return, with 1099's -- so certainly I've shown my exemption as having been taxed in a foreign country. But if somehow Thailand got first dibs on taxing, say, my IRA proceeds -- I'd just get a tax credit on my US tax return -- like I do today on my Thai taxes on my Bangkok Bank interest. No extra money out of my pocket, however things evolve. But, it is nice to see that Thai fat cats may have to ante up towards paying their govt's bills.

[K2938]

13 minutes ago, JimGant said:

But, it is nice to see that Thai fat cats may have to ante up towards paying their govt's bills.

The real Thai fat cats are not really impacted by this as they have enough local Thai earnings to avoid the need to ever bring any of their foreign earnings into Thailand

[Pib]

6 hours ago, Pib said:

 

The BoI has just posted 12 months of LTR statistics from 1 Sep 2022 (when the LTR program began) thru 31 Aug 2023 on the BoI LTR website.   The LTR Pensioner category is the most popular followed by the Work from Thailand Professional category.  See snapshot below for more details.

 

Now the statistics only show "total applications" and not how many of the total applications were approved.  Several months ago I ask BoI if the statistics represented only approved applications OR total applications (approved & disapproved)...the BoI answer was it represented total applications.   Don't know why BoI don't show total applications "and/or how many were approved." 

 

The approval percentage is anybody's guess but I would guess it would be high for those applications who submitted a well documented application versus those who submit a weak documentation, Hail Mary type application.  

 

LTR Statics 1 Sep 2022 - 31 Aug 2023

 

 

The snapshot I put in above posts seems to have disappeared or was inadvertently linked to the BoI LTR website which is down right now which might affect the ability of the snapshot to display while the website is down.  Fortunately, I still had a copy of the snapshot and below is standalone jpeg version so hopefully it will display regardless of BoI LTR website up or down status.

 

 

 

 

[Ben Zioner]

Numbers likely to dwindle if they renege on the tax advantages. Yes T.I.T.

[CobyW]

On 9/15/2023 at 1:45 PM, Misty said:

Thanks for posting the article.  There's at least one paragraph in it that could be misleading or incorrect:

 

"Moreover, if one is considered a tax resident of Thailand, as a result of being present in the country for a period of 180 days or more in a year, income from an employment abroad that is brought into Thailand within the same tax year would be subject to Thai income tax."

 

How is "employment abroad" being defined?  For example, if the person is earning the income while working in Thailand, it isn't "foreign source income." The income is taxable immediately, whether or not it is paid overseas, or even ever brought into Thailand.

 

Or so says the tax professionals we work with. I'll double check with the tax professionals we work with. It appears at least one of the authors of this article worked there at one time as well, so perhaps they can clear this up.

 

 

 

 

@Misty - I will be based in Phuket and ideally would like to find a trusted tax professional who knows a bit about the LTR visa and how to navigate the taxes, legally of course. Do you know of any that you can refer or are we capturing details in this forum that you know of that might direct me to a good tax agent?

[retarius]

On 7/8/2022 at 11:19 PM, CrossBones said:

First Cannabis was legalized.

 

Now, form September 22nd a new kind of visa is available for long stayers.

 

It seems if you make $80k a year or have assets worth $1m you can stay here for 5 - 10 years.

 

I am wondering why there isnt much talk about this on this forum.

IF it stops 90 day and TM 30 reports, I'm in.

[RafPinto]

3 minutes ago, retarius said:

IF it stops 90 day and TM 30 reports, I'm in.

No more 90 days just once a year reporting where you stay.
Each time you leave the country and come back, the 1 year reporting starts again.

 

No TM30

[CobyW]

I'm intrigued with the "Fast Track Service at International Airports in Thailand" benefit of the LTR. Has anyone come back in via BKK (Bangkok) or HKT (Phuket) airports and tell us about the experience. I'm interested to know what to look for when I arrive once I have my LTR.

[El Matador]

Not too bad if you consider the high requirements.

Basically 300 millionaires + 2000 remote workers + 1500 wealthy pensioners (who would have had the other visa otherwise).

Very far from what they expected obviously. But I thought it would be worse. And the new Thai Elite visa might bring a few extra people in that visa category.

[BritTim]

1 hour ago, El Matador said:

Not too bad if you consider the high requirements.

Basically 300 millionaires + 2000 remote workers + 1500 wealthy pensioners (who would have had the other visa otherwise).

Very far from what they expected obviously. But I thought it would be worse. And the new Thai Elite visa might bring a few extra people in that visa category.

I believed the LTR visas looked good on paper, but was sceptical, based on previous experience, about how it would work in practice. It transpires that it has lived up to its promise, and the BOI has implemented it well. The only disappointment is that most digital nomads (even those with high earnings) do not qualify. I have been recommending that those who qualify consider it. If it continues on its current promising track, I expect to see increased success.

[aublumberg]

1 hour ago, CobyW said:

I'm intrigued with the "Fast Track Service at International Airports in Thailand" benefit of the LTR. Has anyone come back in via BKK (Bangkok) or HKT (Phuket) airports and tell us about the experience. I'm interested to know what to look for when I arrive once I have my LTR.

Yes it works as advertised, you can use the Fast Track lane both for arrival and departure. Saves some time when the airport is busy. Immigration officers are also now more familiar with the LTR visa and processing of immigration formalities is generally quite quick. 

[Misty]

2 hours ago, CobyW said:

@Misty - I will be based in Phuket and ideally would like to find a trusted tax professional who knows a bit about the LTR visa and how to navigate the taxes, legally of course. Do you know of any that you can refer or are we capturing details in this forum that you know of that might direct me to a good tax agent?

Hi Coby, for a list of Thai tax professionals, take a look at this link from the AMCHAM directory:https://connect.amchamthailand.com/list/ql/accounting-tax-3

 

You might need to contact a couple of the firms to see which ones can help with your specific circumstances.

 

I have had to file Thai tax PND90/91 every year for decades and this didn't change with the LTR visa. However, I plan to reapply for a different type of LTR visa that will cut my Thai tax rate to a flat 17%, so I understand then I'll switch to filing a different form, maybe PND95? for my salary income when I get that new LTR visa.

 

 

[tai4de2]

8 hours ago, RafPinto said:

No more 90 days just once a year reporting where you stay.
Each time you leave the country and come back, the 1 year reporting starts again.

 

No TM30

AFAIK an LTR visa doesn't exempt us from TM30.

[khunjeff]

On 9/18/2023 at 2:24 AM, mrmagyar said:

The commentary in the second related article suggests this is designed to be aimed at Thai's, but it seems LTR visa holders would be caught in the net

I'm not sure why you think that. The tax benefits for LTR holders weren't some kind of loophole - they were formally and legally implemented even before the first visa was issued. Royal Decree no. 743, gazetted on 23 May 2022 and titled  "Decree Issued in Accordance with the Revenue Code Concerning the Reduction of Tax Rates and Exemptions (No. 257)" made the provisions official, and there's no indication that this new decree changes that in any way.

[K2938]

8 hours ago, khunjeff said:

I'm not sure why you think that. The tax benefits for LTR holders weren't some kind of loophole - they were formally and legally implemented even before the first visa was issued. Royal Decree no. 743, gazetted on 23 May 2022 and titled  "Decree Issued in Accordance with the Revenue Code Concerning the Reduction of Tax Rates and Exemptions (No. 257)" made the provisions official, and there's no indication that this new decree changes that in any way.

Well, on Fb somebody asked the BOI about the taxation of money remitted in view of the new tax legislation and they refused to comment, only saying that non-remitted money is tax-free.  So I guess the honest answer is that nobody knows at present

[Ben Zioner]

BOI must be quite worried, since the Taxation of incoming monies would kill LTRWP, LTRWFTP as well as a large chunk of dependants. The whole LTR program would be dead. And I have little on the effect on Thailand Elite. 

[JimGant]

1 hour ago, Ben Zioner said:

BOI must be quite worried, since the Taxation of incoming monies would kill LTRWP,

Why? I got my LTRWP based on military pension and social security. These are all untaxable by Thailand, under treaty rules. But, if Thailand did tax some of my income, I'd just get a tax credit on my US taxes -- and nothing would change.

[Misty]

2 hours ago, Ben Zioner said:

BOI must be quite worried, since the Taxation of incoming monies would kill LTRWP, LTRWFTP as well as a large chunk of dependants. The whole LTR program would be dead. And I have little on the effect on Thailand Elite. 

It doesn't seem like the BoI would care one way or the other.

[K2938]

2 hours ago, Ben Zioner said:

And I have little on the effect on Thailand Elite. 

It would also have a big effect on Thai Elite since many people use the - then absent - tax savings to justify the enormous cost of the visa for themselves.  If you look into the various Thai Elite discussion forums, countless people have already announced there that they would leave if their remittances are taxed and others are wondering if they should continue with their application.

[K2938]

56 minutes ago, JimGant said:

Why? I got my LTRWP based on military pension and social security. These are all untaxable by Thailand, under treaty rules. But, if Thailand did tax some of my income, I'd just get a tax credit on my US taxes -- and nothing would change.

You are in a very small group of people where this applies.  And apart from Eritrea only the U.S. has citizenship based taxation anyway.  If remittances are taxable, this would have a devastating effect on both the LTR and Thai Elite visa program.  And the government would also shoot themselves in the foot because the purpose of both programs was to attract high spenders to Thailand.  If remittances are taxed, then of course many high spenders who have a choice will try to spend the minimum amount in Thailand they can get away with.  So the whole purpose of these two visa programs would be defeated.

[JimGant]

46 minutes ago, K2938 said:

  If remittances are taxable, this would have a devastating effect on both the LTR and Thai Elite visa program. 

Not for Yanks. We already pay max taxes on our worldwide income. Should Thailand decide to tax some income they haven't taxed in the past -- I'd just get a tax credit for these Thai taxes against my US taxes, with the result being same total tax paid, only Thailand now gets a bigger share than the US. No big deal.

 

But, yeah, I can see some folks now getting a free ride on taxation becoming worried about having to pay someone taxes. So sad.

[Ben Zioner]

47 minutes ago, JimGant said:

But, yeah, I can see some folks now getting a free ride on taxation becoming worried about having to pay someone taxes. So sad.

Ohhh the righteous US folks. 

 

Many people came here because they could be exempt of income tax. Legally, mind you.

[leinez]

Unfortunately, it might not be that simple. Even with a tax treaty things can get complicated.  While US social security might be tax exempt in Thailand, there are other streams of income (such as investments, rental income, etc) that might be treated differently in Thailand vs the US.

 

Rental income, for example, can be offset in the US with depreciation, expenses, capital investments, upkeeps etc. which can lower the tax liability quite a bit (even create rental losses). Thailand allows only up to 30 percent standard deductions which could create a tax liability in Thailand (while it might not in the US).

 

So, it will be interesting to see how this develops

[khunjeff]

12 hours ago, K2938 said:

Well, on Fb somebody asked the BOI about the taxation of money remitted in view of the new tax legislation and they refused to comment, only saying that non-remitted money is tax-free.  So I guess the honest answer is that nobody knows at present

Thanks, that's interesting. Of course, non-remitted overseas income hasn't been taxable for anyone in the past, so the LTR exemption would have been meaningless if that's what was really meant. I guess we'll hear more over the next few months.

[khunjeff]

This is what I saw on the LTR Facebook page...

[K2938]

4 hours ago, khunjeff said:

This is what I saw on the LTR Facebook page...

This does NOT confirm that foreign income REMITTED to Thailand will NOT be taxed which is the crucial question.  Moreover, in the same fb thread further below the LTR people also repeatedly refused to answer what the situation will be concerning REMITTED foreign earnings.  So they probably either do not want to clarify because the answer is bad or they just do not know.

Edited September 21, 2023 by K2938

[Misty]

An update on the overall application process: 

 

I just submitted a new LTR visa application. Compared to my first application a year ago, there was a dramatic improvement in ease of use.  No real hiccups, other than that I had to have a different email address from my original application.  Different documents were required for this version of the visa, but overall the process went smoothly.  The application status went from "draft" to "pending" as I completed the submission. The LTR unit says it should take 20 business days for them to review and hopefully approve the new application.