Needless death of a Thai teen whose friend was on the phone on a bike: So many questions about the Thai roads

[ChaiyaTH]

Like a helmet would help in this case, would still be death. It's about the phone + distraction + 1 hand driving here. Yeah let's wear a cheap ass helmet and be considered good, while that helmet turns into a knife penetrating the skull when it breaks.

[seajae]

family friends lost their 19year old son & his girlfriend yesterday when his bike was hit by a pickup that decided to drive through a stop sign and not give way, boy died at the scene and girl died in hospital later. Driver reckons he didnt see them but it is a very open T intersection, bike had right of way as well but typical of many thai drivers the pickup didnt want to stop, they think that stop signs are a recomendation only and if they want to be ignorant they can ignore them. Really hope he is locked up as it should be murder but he will more than likely get off, the arrogance of many thai road users is a major problem, they think the road laws dont apply to them, police are at fault for not enforcing the rules, if they actually got out on the roads as they do in the western countries they might just make a difference

[KhunLA]

2 minutes ago, starky said:

Without sounding harsh. We arent speaking of monied people from well educated families that can afford driving lessons and cars for their offspring 

   For the most part we are talking about dirt poor people with a less than rudimentary education that wouldnt get anywhere without the scooter they ride. And truth be told who have very little to live for anyway. Dont project your life onto someone elses its one of the most unpalatable things about these threads. Its a tragedy and could have been avoided by 99% of the posters have zero frame of reference.

Spare MB & phones ... far from dirt poor.

 

You can be poor & uneducated, that's no excuse for stupid & irresponsible.

[Andycoops]

In the boonies here in Isaan they are alot younger than 14 riding motorcycles/scooters.

 

Tragically riding the above whilst on the phone is seen as some sort of rite of passage and happens daily.

 

Do politicians care, absolutely not, nor do the police or anybody else in authority here.

 

The slaughter will continue, unfortunately, unabated.

[scorecard]

23 hours ago, EricTh said:

I see a lot of Thai people talking on the phone while riding their motorbike. Furthermore, they don't even wear helmets.

 

This is asking for disaster to happen. Isn't there basic education of road safety in Thailand?

 

How did they even get a driving licence in the first place?

"...Isn't there basic education of road safety in Thailand?..." As a properly organized compulsory activity ... NO.

 

Some schools do this occasionally but with less than professional instruction, usually by people who are not experts about the subject. Sometimes teachers who wouldn't pass and test themselves.

 

[TigerandDog]

The questions this accident raises are many.

 

Should such aged children as 14 be riding motorcycles? - NO

 

What does it say about road safety education if they are driving a vehicle - and a motorcycle at that - while on the phone? - there is none

 

What is likely to happen to the apparently entirely innocent pick-up drivers involved in such a tragedy? Someone will find a way to blame him and try to extract money from him

 

How can needless accidents like this, that are not only devastating on a human level but disastrous from an economic standpoint, be reduced? Proper training and law enforcement

 

Should the police be on the lookout for transgressions and doing something to enforce traffic laws? DEFINITELY

 

Should their supposed masters - the politicians - be doing more to ensure the RTP enforce the law? Definitely

 

Do the politicians even care?  NO

 

Should schools do more to train students - even the underaged when it comes to riding or driving - in good habits on the roads? Not the schools responsibiility, it's the parents, but as many have posted in other topics, you can't cure laziness or stupidity

[Brian Hull]

The solution to Thailand's disgraceful traffic record is simple. Get the big boss of the traffic police to earn his salary and force his traffic cops to get off their collective asses and onto the roads to enthusiastically apprehend and prosecute all offenders. The traffic accident situation in any country in the world would be just as bad if there wasn't anybody controlling it.

 

[scorecard]

12 minutes ago, starky said:

Without sounding harsh. We arent speaking of monied people from well educated families that can afford driving lessons and cars for their offspring 

   For the most part we are talking about dirt poor people with a less than rudimentary education that wouldnt get anywhere without the scooter they ride. And truth be told who have very little to live for anyway. Dont project your life onto someone elses its one of the most unpalatable things about these threads. Its a tragedy and could have been avoided by 99% of the posters have zero frame of reference.

Hey slow down.

 

I had no intention whatever to impose anything on anybody, I just shared one disgraceful experience, for a specific obvious reason, I made no mention about the cost or ability to afford.

 

As above I am well aware that a very large % of the population wouldn't be able to afford a driving school, some very probably don't even know that driving schools exist.

 

There's also the point that driving and the rules of the road should be compulsory in primary and high school. There's also the point that many parents are well capable of teaching their kids to drive (regardless of their income). And this would be enhanced by kids having well produced materials from schools. 

 

I well understand that many many poor families rely on an old scooter to get their kids to school and to carry out the daily chores for survival. 

[seajae]

16 minutes ago, starky said:

Without sounding harsh. We arent speaking of monied people from well educated families that can afford driving lessons and cars for their offspring 

   For the most part we are talking about dirt poor people with a less than rudimentary education that wouldnt get anywhere without the scooter they ride. And truth be told who have very little to live for anyway. Dont project your life onto someone elses its one of the most unpalatable things about these threads. Its a tragedy and could have been avoided by 99% of the posters have zero frame of reference.

I grew up in a poor family after our dad died after spending many years in hospital, the best food we got to eat was the left overs from the saturday night function hall where our mum had a third job, most of our clothes were second hand or hand me downs too. We had very little, school was a 45 minute walk or we could ride our bikes(second hand) there, any other travel was by bus after walking 10 minutes to the closest bus stop but we did it. The problem here in Thailand is a lot of people are just plain lazy and refuse to walk any distance, you only have to see how many double park blocking roads to go into a shop when they could park properly 10 metres away and walk back. If thai kids road bicycles there would be a lot less deaths of young riders too but again they refuse to do so even though bicycles are a lot cheaper than motorbikes/scooters and its down to being lazy & loss of face. The amount of idiot riders on that roads is over the top and most of them are to young to have a licence and shouldnt even be riding them but parents just dont care and neither do the police, it has nothing to do with being dirt poor.

[Bangkok Barry]

There is one answer to many of the questions raised by the OP. Responsible parenting. It's as simple as that.

[scorecard]

14 minutes ago, scorecard said:

Hey slow down.

 

I had no intention whatever to impose anything on anybody, I just shared one disgraceful experience, for a specific obvious reason, I made no mention about the cost or ability to afford.

 

As above I am well aware that a very large % of the population wouldn't be able to afford a driving school, some very probably don't even know that driving schools exist.

 

There's also the point that driving and the rules of the road should be compulsory in primary and high school. There's also the point that many parents are well capable of teaching their kids to drive (regardless of their income). And this would be enhanced by kids having well produced materials from schools. 

 

I well understand that many many poor families rely on an old scooter to get their kids to school and to carry out the daily chores for survival. 

Bottom line: there's a serious problem in this subject area and kids/every age Thais are dying because of lack of proper education about driving, good driving behaviors and about the rules of the road and because the RTP condone dangerous situations re the very young age kids are allowed to drive, regardless of the law.

 

It needs a lot of attention but in reality that's not happening. 

[Bangkok Barry]

6 hours ago, webfact said:

Should schools do more to train students - even the underaged when it comes to riding or driving - in good habits on the roads?

Well, they should. But this is Thailand, and here is a school vehicle I photographed. No awareness shown of the danger by the school, by the driver, by the kids, by the parents. No-one cares. Thais live in the moment and simply can't think ahead to what might happen in any number of ways in a situation like this. It is totally beyond them.

I would bet everything on there not being a single family in Thailand which hasn't been affected by death or serious injury on the road, often involving kids or teens. In my own family a sister-in-law was killed, another killed a woman with her school van after the motorcyclist she hit could only be bothered to look one way when crossing a main road, a brother-in-law has steel plates in his leg after the bike he was on was hit from behind as he waited to do a right turn, another brother-in-law survived being rolled upside down into a ditch as a pickup passenger. And we narrowly avoided disaster one night when we were in the fast lane of a dual carriageway and saw another vehicle coming straight at us. I'm guessing the driver was too drunk to know it was a dual carriageway and he was driving on the wrong side. Or maybe he did know and was driving on our side for his own convenience.

[Smithson]

The schools check their hair length, but not their licences when they ride and park at the school. When I was a kid schools checked licences of students who drove.

[Stefanix]

The Thai society accepts this collateral damage for the sake of freedom, easy living and a lazy life style. Quite similar to gun victims in the US. A change is possible, but not really wanted. There is no specific politician to blame, but the culture and everyone not opposing the circumstances. 

[Bangkok Barry]

46 minutes ago, Andycoops said:

 

Do politicians care, absolutely not, nor do the police or anybody else in authority here.

Clearly, nor do the parents. Or, more likely, grandparents as the parents have more important things to do elsewhere than raise their own kids.

[Bobydog]

3 hours ago, KhunLA said:

Forget 'Thai roads', forget the law, enforcement, lack of, test, blah blah blah ...

 

... what responsible parent lets 14 yr old drive a motorbike, possibly without a helmet ?

 

Surely they'll blame everyone and everything ... except themselves.

R I P

Enough! The ultimate responsibility lies with the people in charge. They fill their own pockets flawlessly, they are responsible for the conduct or lack thereof of their subordinates. Time they did their job or be held accountable!

[Bangkok Barry]

2 hours ago, shackleton said:

Nothing will happen we will be talking same stuff next year in 20 years no action 

My edit. My wife was involved in a school 'bus' accident in which a friend lost both his legs and others were thrown onto the road and injured. That was 50 years ago. Nothing will ever change here, not in one or 20 or another 50 years.

[scorecard]

22 minutes ago, Bangkok Barry said:

Well, they should. But this is Thailand, and here is a school vehicle I photographed. No awareness shown of the danger by the school, by the driver, by the kids, by the parents. No-one cares. Thais live in the moment and simply can't think ahead to what might happen in any number of ways in a situation like this. It is totally beyond them.

I would bet everything on there not being a single family in Thailand which hasn't been affected by death or serious injury on the road, often involving kids or teens. In my own family a sister-in-law was killed, another killed a woman with her school van after the motorcyclist she hit could only be bothered to look one way when crossing a main road, a brother-in-law has steel plates in his leg after the bike he was on was hit from behind as he waited to do a right turn, another brother-in-law survived being rolled upside down into a ditch as a pickup passenger. And we narrowly avoided disaster one night when we were in the fast lane of a dual carriageway and saw another vehicle coming straight at us. I'm guessing the driver was too drunk to know it was a dual carriageway and he was driving on the wrong side. Or maybe he did know and was driving on our side for his own convenience.

Another example, we were waiting at a small soi to enter the main road just out of Lampang. A schol van went past, lots of little kids, a couple of the little kids were sliding the van door full open then full closed, again and again while the vehicle was moving in the traffic. 

 

My son called he school and shared what he had seen, then went to the school to reinforce his concerns. Just as he got out of hic car the van arrived. Door already open, kids jumping out befor the van has come to a full stop.

 

Response: 'but it's OK because there's a teacher in the van'. 

Son: 'Yes but the teacher was in the front of the van not watching the kids'.

 

School: 'Yes but the teacher isn't paid for this so we can't tell her where to sit'. 

 

End of discussion.

[KannikaP]

4 hours ago, Denim said:

accountable should their children be caught riding with a license

.............WITHOUT.................................

[MaiChai]

Says something about Thailand: Parents should be more responsible and educating their children about the dangers of motorbikes, and not just let them do what they want. As another poster said: who bought the bike, who let their children go out on the bike, etc.

[Purdey]

1 hour ago, scorecard said:

parents don't want to say NO, because they fear their kids won't love them

Absolutely agree. Also, the small point that Thais do not have a pension and need kids to care for them in old age. Hopefully their kids live long enought to help pay back their love.

[Mansell]

Five years ago in a town north of BK my lady friend and I took a ride into the local town with her friend driving her new car. Within a few minutes I knew this person didn’t know how to drive. I asked my friend how did she get a license? She said she was a teacher and somebody in the local government gave her a license. She drove 50 klicks each day to the school. I wanted to drive back but they wouldn’t let me.

A few weeks later my friend sent me a picture of the teachers car buried into the front room of her house. I responded, “ She confused the brake and the accelerator, right?” She said Yes. It was just luck she didn’t kill anybody, including herself.
There seems to be a disconnect in Thai brains when it comes to driving cars and motorbikes. They just don’t appear to think….at all. Until the government acts like they did in Vietnam, nothing will change….and it will get progressively worse with more and more road users every year.

The absolutely lousy incompetent drivers/riders here is the one thing that might drive me from this country. Every day I have to avoid the moronic people on the road……a man pulls out of a side road without slowing down with a child in front of him, no helmets. If I hadn’t hit the brakes they would have been badly hurt. No recognition on his face of his stupidity. Bring all the police from California, and they’ll sort them out pretty damn quickly with some good fines and confiscating their vehicles. 

[Fore Man]

16 minutes ago, Mansell said:

Five years ago in a town north of BK my lady friend and I took a ride into the local town with her friend driving her new car. Within a few minutes I knew this person didn’t know how to drive. I asked my friend how did she get a license? She said she was a teacher and somebody in the local government gave her a license. She drove 50 klicks each day to the school. I wanted to drive back but they wouldn’t let me.

A few weeks later my friend sent me a picture of the teachers car buried into the front room of her house. I responded, “ She confused the brake and the accelerator, right?” She said Yes. It was just luck she didn’t kill anybody, including herself.
There seems to be a disconnect in Thai brains when it comes to driving cars and motorbikes. They just don’t appear to think….at all. Until the government acts like they did in Vietnam, nothing will change….and it will get progressively worse with more and more road users every year.

The absolutely lousy incompetent drivers/riders here is the one thing that might drive me from this country. Every day I have to avoid the moronic people on the road……a man pulls out of a side road without slowing down with a child in front of him, no helmets. If I hadn’t hit the brakes they would have been badly hurt. No recognition on his face of his stupidity. Bring all the police from California, and they’ll sort them out pretty damn quickly with some good fines and confiscating their vehicles. 

Well, as Forrest said, sitting there on the bus-stop bench:

 

”Stupid is as stupid does”.  
 

A lamentable quotation, yes, but so very apropos here in the LOS.  Being a total ignoramus insofar as driving safety is unfortunately an inbred Thai trait and will never get better until the entire nation makes it a major priority, and vigorously enforces pertinent laws.  

[toofarnorth]

When I were a lad , several years ag in England , when learning to drive a car and to warn others that driving was a new experience we had to attach L plates to the car.  Imagine that over here , the locals would be aghast !  Admitting you were a mere learner , 'eaven forbid a total loss of respek innit .

[NoshowJones]

6 hours ago, greenmonkey said:

Sad but true and those parents that very irresponsibly allow their kids to ride bikes will be very quick to try and get some form of compensation from the other driver(s) involved.

Another reason I keep my life savings in my UK bank and just keep enough for my living expenses here in Thailand. What you haven't got they cannot get.

[Billy Bloggs]

I have just come back from a driving trip to Bangkok(I have always gone by train previously), I was to say the least a little worried. I found it quite easy, yes there were bikes zipping in and out and cars that slowed suddenly and you could tell they had just got a phone call, but in all it wasnt that that bad. When I got back I noticed just how much more dangerous it was around our small town, with most not knowing how to drive and not caring about anyone but themselves. Im sorry for the young one who was killed but it will only get worse as more cars get on the road, it is nice to say the police should do something, I have always said they need to be mobile, but no one will pay for them to be mobile.

[NoshowJones]

5 hours ago, klauskunkel said:

and pertaining to the above:

What if they survive years of unsafe driving and are now old enough to graduate to pick-up trucks? I believe that they will also graduate from mostly killing themselves to harming others as well.

The majority of motorbike riders just do not know when they are riding on the wrong side of the road. Many times I have shouted at them that they are on the wrong side of the road while pointing at the right side. 9 times out of 10 they have shouted back at me in anger. They  just do not know or do not have the brains to know that they are in the wrong.

Many times I have pulled Thais up for jumping queues in front of me, but not once has anyone shouted back at me or complained. The big difference is that they know they are in the wrong while most people riding on the wrong side of the road on their motorbikes do not.

[Jimjim1]

6 hours ago, VocalNeal said:

I have come to the conclusion that there is a huge cultural feeling that accidents are karma/destiny and an element of fatalism. 

I feel that you are absolutely correct because they are told almost daily by monks who are even thicker than them that if they die they will be reborn again as soon as the next day especially if someone in the family is about to drop a new born.

Why do they believe such junk, where is the proof ?

Every religion is waiting for the resurrection and has been for 2,000 years plus and still none of them has shown up nor ever will, Dead is Dead there is no way back ever

 

So the combination of an extremely low standard of education, absolutely no common sense and a complete belief in the junk spewed out to them by a bunch clowns with an even lower IQ than the believers results in the carnage experienced daily.

 

RIP to the youngster you are just another statistic now virtually placed there by an elite who could not care less and a laughable police force who itself never appears to drive within the law, how many times have we all seen one in full uniform driving the wrong way on the wrong side of the road.

[NoshowJones]

23 hours ago, Purdey said:

It seems quite common outside major cities for kids to borrow dad's motorbike from a young age. Some are given them to go to school as we would give a bicycle. The parents will not blame themselves for their child's death and won't learn anything. Even a military coup won't be tough on drivers.

"Even a military coup won't be tough on drivers."  Why do you think that is? I would say that finance raises it's ugly head again.

[Bvor]

grossly incompetent police ,gov't and thainess. TIT!