How do you cope with skyrocketing premiums from health insurers?

[DUS]

Hello,

 

I am not really sure what kind of replies to expect but I´ll throw this question out to the community and see what happens.

 

I am 53 years old and have health coverage with CIGNA International. In 2018 the premium for my policy was € 1.581,06. I just got my renewal proposal for the upcoming year and they quote € 2.276,80/year. It was € 1.861,77 last year. These increases scare the heck out of me. I mean, 44% between 2018 and 2022 alone means that in the not too distant future I will be priced out of the market, so to speak. I understand that past is not always prologue, but if the past is anything to go by, premiums will likely creep up even faster in the future, plus the age component becoming an even bigger factor in the insurance company´s calculation. 

 

So in order to make being insured a bit more financially viable, I will now have to check with CIGNA what options are available to reduce the premiums in the year ahead. Such as increasing the deductibles/self-payment, reducing coverage etc etc. And this "etc etc" is actually something that would be interesting to learn from you, if you have been in a similar situation to me. How did you respond to large price increases in the premiums? Just cough up the money? Make some adjustments to your policy? If so, which ones did you make that helped to noticeably reduce the financial burden? Did you look for and select a different insurer? Or did you throw in the towel and cancel the policy altogether?

 

I admit, seeing a 44% increase from 2018 to 2022 scares the heck out of me. I made the mistake of playing around with this 44% number and looked at what such an increase (if applied over the years to come) would mean for my policy in 20 years time. Unaffordable, to say the least. :-)) 

 

I will speak to CIGNA about this and see what changes could be made to my existing policy before it renews this September. But hearing about and learning from other users who have seen their premiums go up massively in the past might be very useful. 

 

Thank you!

DUS

Edited July 26, 2022 by DUS

[KannikaP]

Is the insurance worth it? Have you made a claim and got it paid?

[DUS]

7 minutes ago, KannikaP said:

 Have you made a claim and got it paid?

I only made 1 claim a year so far and that was for the annual health-checkup that is part of my current policy. Handling of these claims has been absolutely fine, so no complaints there. 

 

My concern is the affordability in a few years from now. I would love to remain insured for the "worst case" incidents, like cancer, a stroke or anything that includes major surgery and ICU etc. Those things that would break the bank if I had to pay everything out of pocket. But with the current rates of increases in the premiums, it will be CIGNA that will cause me to go broke, not surgery. ;-))))

 

Edited July 26, 2022 by DUS

[KannikaP]

2 minutes ago, DUS said:

I only made 1 claim a year so far and that was for the annual health-checkup that is part of my current policy. Handling of these claims has been absolutely fine, so no complaints there. 

 

My concern is the affordability in a few years from now. I would love to remain insured for the "worst case" incidents, like cancer, a stroke or anything that includes major surgery and ICU etc. Those things that would break the bank if I had to pay everything out of pocket. But with the current rates of increases in the premiums, it will be CIGNA that will cause me to go broke, not surgery. ;-))))

 

I am surprised that an Annual Check-up is covered by Cigna, who refused to pay Bht 600 for medications I had to take home with me.

Obviously, you are covered for out=patient procedures, so get that knocked off for starters.

[DUS]

6 minutes ago, KannikaP said:

I am surprised that an Annual Check-up is covered by Cigna, who refused to pay Bht 600 for medications I had to take home with me.

Obviously, you are covered for out=patient procedures, so get that knocked off for starters.

The partial payment of the annual checkup was based on the "International Health and Wellbeing" add-on (or whatever this is called). But you are right, everything is on the chopping list if it helps bringing down the premium. I mentioned this add-on in an email that I just sent out to the company. 

Edited July 26, 2022 by DUS

[PJ71]

I increase the excess to keep the premium reasonable but i'm still <50.

[DUS]

8 minutes ago, KannikaP said:

I am surprised that an Annual Check-up is covered by Cigna, who refused to pay Bht 600 for medications I had to take home with me.

Obviously, you are covered for out=patient procedures, so get that knocked off for starters.

Are you still with CIGNA or did you jump ship?

[KannikaP]

Just now, DUS said:

Are you still with CIGNA or did you jump ship?

Sure did. Now with WR Life, but not made any claim yet.

 

[Nickelbeer]

Skyrocketing premiums from companies that usually fail to pay the coverage they agreed to. Insurance in Thailand is a massive scam.

[1FinickyOne]

It is pretty scary and I might mention that the time when you are infirm you might have the least energy to fight a rejected claim... 

 

In my dystopian worldview, the insurance companies will price themselves out of the market as health care becomes more expensive and world tragedies make property insurance go through the roof too...

 

So, take an average 70 yr old... would you want to risk your money insuring them? 

[KIngsofisaan]

You are 100% correct to be worried about the increase in premiums.

 

The thing is you can increase the out of pocket deductible and shelve other non-essentials, however at your age 53 you are only at the tip of the iceberg.

 

Cost will get much worse at age 60, 65, 70, 75

 

At age 70, the average premiums now are around US $400 to $500 a month,

 

As the years roll on, insurance and everything else in the world will get more expensive.

 

Image the cost of everything 17 years from now when you are 70? Food, gas, medical, electricity, you name it. The price of a major surgery or medical procedure 10 years from now may be through the roof?

 

Good that you are planning. 

 

Sheryl can give the best medical premium advice on this forum.

[internationalism]

I have switched from 16mln April (after they increased my premium by some 20%) to 3mln Pacific Cross with 300k deductible.

In the future I will be forced to downgrade to only 1.2mln cover.

They give up to 20% discount for not claiming.

There is also an option of taking throw away insurance from another company to bridge this 300k deductible. So the PC won't increase premium by 25% for the next 2 years for making a large claim (and you still get 20% reduction).

 

Due to covid hospitalisation in thailand, as well as development of chronic illnesses over those 2 years of pandemic (there were limited screening programs for cancer and the other major illness, cancelled and postponed treatments, neglected regular check ups etc), all premiums went up. What I have payed to April at the beginning of pandemic now is 12k higher, for that same age - jumped from 56k to 68k.

Edited July 26, 2022 by internationalism

[OneMoreFarang]

50 minutes ago, Nickelbeer said:

Skyrocketing premiums from companies that usually fail to pay the coverage they agreed to. Insurance in Thailand is a massive scam.

Is it?

Or is the bigger problem that many people don't read the fine print and somehow assume the insurance will pay? 

Obviously there are cases where the insurance should pay under the conditions of the contract and they don't pay (right away). But there are far more cases where the insurance does not pay because that was never part of the contract.

I.e. with my current insurance I don't get any money when I buy prescription glasses.

Long time ago I had an insurance who paid even expensive glasses.

It all depends on what is covered. And that's in the contract, on many many pages.

[Sheryl]

5 hours ago, DUS said:

The partial payment of the annual checkup was based on the "International Health and Wellbeing" add-on (or whatever this is called). But you are right, everything is on the chopping list if it helps bringing down the premium. I mentioned this add-on in an email that I just sent out to the company. 

Dropping add ons like this will certainly lower your premium as would adding or increasing deductible and/or copay. Just make sure whatever changes you make are ones you can live with permanently. Because the guarantee of lifetime renewal does not include being able to upgrade coverage, only to continue it. You can always downgrade (drop additional add-ons or increase deductible etc) but they can refuse to let you upgrade, or exclude certain things from the upgrade.

[Sheryl]

4 hours ago, OneMoreFarang said:

Is it?

Or is the bigger problem that many people don't read the fine print and somehow assume the insurance will pay? 

Obviously there are cases where the insurance should pay under the conditions of the contract and they don't pay (right away). But there are far more cases where the insurance does not pay because that was never part of the contract.

I.e. with my current insurance I don't get any money when I buy prescription glasses.

Long time ago I had an insurance who paid even expensive glasses.

It all depends on what is covered. And that's in the contract, on many many pages.

True but there is indeed a big difference between Thai companies and intetnational ones and Thai companies -- some mucn more than others -- do have a poorer reputation for paying claims for reasons unrelated to policy terms and frankly sometimes very dubious/far fetched.  And, the regulatory framework for health insurance in Thailand is weak and allows things not permitted in westetn countries.

 

I think OP may have Cigna Global.  If so they are international company based in UK and under UK insurance regs.

 

If not I would suggest he look at changing to an international insurer while still young enough and without any chronic conditions.

[DUS]

10 minutes ago, Sheryl said:

 

 

I think OP may have Cigna Global. 

That’s correct!

 

Thanks!

[mania]

On 7/26/2022 at 12:50 AM, DUS said:

I mean, 44% between 2018 and 2022 alone means that in the not too distant future I will be priced out of the market

Man I'm sorry to hear that DUS !

Especially since your using a international provider too!

Not to mention your actually still quite young & like you say should this continue I can only imagine what

it will be when your 65+

 

You might want to try April MH Int Last I checked with

Wim

Cell Phone 0971890190

AA Insurance Brokers Co., Ltd.   Their prices were better than what you quote

[StayinThailand2much]

Not my problem.

[SymS]

Do you really need international coverage? If not, switch to a local insurer. I've been with AXA Insurance Thailand, and while they have increase premiums over the years it's not that high percentage wise. You would still be covered if you travel overseas (excluding USA maybe?) for less than 90 days.

[Pumpuynarak]

I sympathise with the OP having had TOTR BUPA cover in the UK back in 2007 paying 80GBP per month. When i advised them of my permanent removal to Thailand they advised me i would have to take their international policy cover at a cost of 300GBP per month.

 

Just imagine what the cost would be now at my age of 72 ? I now self insure.

Hope you find a satisfactory solution OP.

[mania]

16 minutes ago, SymS said:

Do you really need international coverage? If not, switch to a local insurer. I've been with AXA Insurance Thailand, and while they have increase premiums over the years it's not that high percentage wise. You would still be covered if you travel overseas (excluding USA maybe?) for less than 90 days.

Actually buying International is not always about coverage out of Thailand but sometimes Thailand insurers like Sheryl mentioned are sketchy

https://aseannow.com/topic/1267088-how-do-you-cope-with-skyrocketing-premiums-from-health-insurers/?do=findComment&comment=17504692

 

Also I was quite surprised that price for price the international insurers (meaning not based in Thailand)  had better coverage

 

 

[DUS]

24 minutes ago, SymS said:

Do you really need international coverage? If not, switch to a local insurer. I've been with AXA Insurance Thailand, and while they have increase premiums over the years it's not that high percentage wise. You would still be covered if you travel overseas (excluding USA maybe?) for less than 90 days.

That’s an interesting point and something I had forgotten. Thank you!

 

I‘m covered „globally exUSA“. But I think there was an option to go for „Asia ex SIN, CHN“, too. Will check with CIGNA by how much this would reduce the premium. 

 

 

[NoshowJones]

On 7/26/2022 at 7:25 PM, OneMoreFarang said:

Is it?

Or is the bigger problem that many people don't read the fine print and somehow assume the insurance will pay? 

Obviously there are cases where the insurance should pay under the conditions of the contract and they don't pay (right away). But there are far more cases where the insurance does not pay because that was never part of the contract.

I.e. with my current insurance I don't get any money when I buy prescription glasses.

Long time ago I had an insurance who paid even expensive glasses.

It all depends on what is covered. And that's in the contract, on many many pages.

  On 7/26/2022 at 6:31 PM, Nickelbeer said:

Skyrocketing premiums from companies that usually fail to pay the coverage they agreed to. Insurance in Thailand is a massive scam.

 

"Or is the bigger problem that many people don't read the fine print and somehow assume the insurance will pay?"

This fine print alone shows the mentality of insurance companies. Why can't all the wording be the same?? Don't answer that.

Is there an insurance ombudsman in Thailand?? Even if there was, brown envelopes will talk TiT. These companies seem to have a licence to scam and con people, yes of course there are people who will say I'm wrong and their insurance company have paid out, but look at it from a wider point of view, do I need to say more?

[daveAustin]

Could you not try to negotiate with them on the premise that you might be inclined to go elsewhere unless they adjust their premium?

[Henryford]

Self insure. I have for 18 years. If you are paying $2000 a year that's $36,000 (1.3 million baht)  to go towards any treatment.

[Chris.B]

56 minutes ago, SymS said:

I've been with AXA Insurance Thailand, and while they have increase premiums over the years it's not that high percentage wise. You would still be covered if you travel overseas (excluding USA maybe?) for less than 90 days.

That sounds like travel insurance, check your policy.

 

Edited July 28, 2022 by Chris.B

[Chris.B]

Don't worry about being insured over 70. You will either be priced out of the market or you will be refused cover for health reasons. ☹️

 

[Lucky Bones]

11 minutes ago, Henryford said:

Self insure. I have for 18 years. If you are paying $2000 a year that's $36,000 (1.3 million baht)  to go towards any treatment.

Fair enough if you don't get sick/smashed up on the sois for 18 years. 

Bit of a concern if problems come early and self doubt sets in.

It's all a personal choice/gamble.

[Chris.B]

1 minute ago, Lucky Bones said:

Fair enough if you don't get sick/smashed up on the sois for 18 years. 

Bit of a concern if problems come early and self doubt sets in.

It's all a personal choice/gamble.

Life is a risk, you can't insure against everything. ????

 

[Henryford]

6 minutes ago, Lucky Bones said:

Fair enough if you don't get sick/smashed up on the sois for 18 years. 

Bit of a concern if problems come early and self doubt sets in.

It's all a personal choice/gamble.

Sure a risk, but if you are in good shape, not fat, a non smoker it's a good bet. 1.3 million buys a lot of health care. Would the insurance company even pay up? By the time you really need it 75 plus they will dump you.