Consular support for passport renewal

[Malaikat Nakal]

Given the on-going problems within the UK for passport renewal is the UK consul talking to Thai immigration about relaxing passport expiry conditions for UK passport holders?

[Thailand]

Why?

[NanLaew]

4 minutes ago, Thailand said:

Why?

The "OMG! I just noticed I only have one page left in my passport which runs out this Saturday and my visa ends on Sunday" thread has to start somewhere, no?

Edited August 23, 2022 by NanLaew

[richard_smith237]

40 minutes ago, Malaikat Nakal said:

Given the on-going problems within the UK for passport renewal is the UK consul talking to Thai immigration about relaxing passport expiry conditions for UK passport holders?

I very much doubt that would be given any thought or consideration whatsoever. 

 

Why should the Thai Authorities permit British Passport holders entry or permission to remain with an invalid (expired travel document). 

 

I have known that its taking at least 12 weeks to renew a passport.

My sons British Passport Expires in September 23 - I’ll be making his renewal approximately 6 months before that deadline. 

 

While I am highlight critical of the utterly slack and atrocious service by HMPO, given the current widely available information regarding passport delays, anyone who has let their passport either expire or approach expiry without providing sufficient time for renewal only has themselves to blame. 

[brewsterbudgen]

Most Brits don't need to be nurse-maided by their government! I thought it was common knowledge that passports should be renewed at least 6 months before expiry. 

[blackshadow]

3 hours ago, richard_smith237 said:

I very much doubt that would be given any thought or consideration whatsoever. 

 

Why should the Thai Authorities permit British Passport holders entry or permission to remain with an invalid (expired travel document). 

 

I have known that its taking at least 12 weeks to renew a passport.

My sons British Passport Expires in September 23 - I’ll be making his renewal approximately 6 months before that deadline. 

 

While I am highlight critical of the utterly slack and atrocious service by HMPO, given the current widely available information regarding passport delays, anyone who has let their passport either expire or approach expiry without providing sufficient time for renewal only has themselves to blame. 

well said

[OJAS]

On 8/23/2022 at 2:44 PM, Malaikat Nakal said:

Given the on-going problems within the UK for passport renewal is the UK consul talking to Thai immigration about relaxing passport expiry conditions for UK passport holders?

I strongly suspect that the only discussions which the ambassador is having with the Immigration Bureau at the present time is in connection with the development and implementation of a joint UK/Thai intergovernmental strategy aimed at making life for British retirees in Thailand as difficult as is humanly possible in the short term and completely impossible eventually.

 

As part of this exercise he is probably also having detailed discussions with other interested governmental parties - namely HMPO, DWP & his FCDO masters in the UK and the MOPH & MOFA here in Thailand.

 

At least that's what it feels like to me sometimes! ????

 

Edited August 30, 2022 by OJAS

[Robin]

I very much doubt if the British Embassy is doing anything.  Why change what has been long term policy.

[DannyS1951]

Well I see someone very clever suggests clever people like him would allow 6 months for a British passport renewal. I'm not that clever so I only allowed 4½ months. (Mind you I'm clever enough to be able to type in the "½".) So VFS Global suggests 13 weeks is about the right amount of time to wait. I'm now at over 15 weeks and I'm getting worried. I wish I was as clever as the man that says clever people give it six months. Again mind you, I have been here so long I remember when our passports were issued by the Bangkok Consulate. After that I went through the courier to the Hong Kong passport office stage. We obviously wasn't as clever as this man back then, but we always got our passports.

[DannyS1951]

For anyone intending to use VFS Global in Bangkok to renew their passport, here is something to watch out for. The payment form asks for your credit/debit card details and a signature. This is the old fashioned way of making payments and there isn't an online payment form for overseas residents. Be very wary of using a local bank's credit or debit card to pay for the passport. It seems to cause the Passport Office in Liverpool all sorts of problems. Use a UK credit/debit card if you have one. If you don't then there are ways a family member in the UK can pay for your passport if local cards cause a problem. (I suspect that the local banks querying the international use, but I have used them in the past without a problem.) I'm not sure if VFS Global can help that much so it will probably need telephone calls to the Passport Office to set it up. Be prepared to spend a couple of hours being shifted through the system on the telephone.

 

VFS Global use their own reference number but this doesn't help much when talking to the Passport Office. The first thing to do, (and I would suggest doing it at 12 or 13 weeks after the application), is to get them to give you the real passport office reference number which is a 10 digit number. You will need to have this to move through the departments (called teams) at the Passport Office.

 

Hopefully you will have an easier time than I had today. Quite why the Passport Office cannot use the contact information they have in the form to notify of problems I don't know. I was told by one of the management team that they are not allowed to send outside emails from the office and only a few top level examiners have this right.

[blackcab]

Posts have been removed.

[DannyS1951]

I was talking on the consulate hot line (Bangkok number but answered from the UK?) and the lady explained me that the Passport Office is no longer under the Foreign Office. It is now run from the Home Office and has been since 1984. (shows how much I knew!) According to Wikipedia in 2007 the ninety UK diplomatic missions allowed to issue passports overseas was cut to just seven. In 2011 this was stopped altogether and all passports are now issued from the UK. For all believers in small government please tell me how well this is working. Anyway the consulate staff do not get involved in passport matters, but may have to pick up the pieces when something goes dreadfully wrong. In other words if you stuck in an immigration jail they may be allowed to visit you:)

 

p.s. I seem to remember sometime about 1983 it taking just a few days to get a new passport at the Bangkok Consulate. At one time they even let me have a second passport so I could have one in for work related travel visas while travelling on the other. That very soon became far too complicated though.

[onebaht]

On 9/8/2022 at 9:08 PM, DannyS1951 said:

Hopefully you will have an easier time than I had today. Quite why the Passport Office cannot use the contact information they have in the form to notify of problems I don't know. I was told by one of the management team that they are not allowed to send outside emails from the office and only a few top level examiners have this right.

did they evr tell you which stage you're at?

 

i'm 13 weeks now and it's just hit the examiner. they only said it will go to the printing stage soon, but no idea about time line.

[OJAS]

On 9/2/2022 at 9:33 AM, Robin said:

I very much doubt if the British Embassy is doing anything.  Why change what has been long term policy.

Ah, but the Embassy did at least inform us (with zero advance warning, of course) of the implementation of the dreaded With-It Tower Passport Renewal Experience way back in 2014! But what they conveniently forgot to tell us was precisely why 2 physical trips to Bangkok from wherever we lived in Thailand were now required as part of the passport renewal process - which remains a complete mystery to this very day.

 

https://www.gov.uk/government/news/changes-to-british-passport-services-in-thailand-2

 

Edited September 19, 2022 by OJAS

[OJAS]

On 9/8/2022 at 9:08 PM, DannyS1951 said:

For anyone intending to use VFS Global in Bangkok to renew their passport, here is something to watch out for. The payment form asks for your credit/debit card details and a signature. This is the old fashioned way of making payments and there isn't an online payment form for overseas residents. Be very wary of using a local bank's credit or debit card to pay for the passport. It seems to cause the Passport Office in Liverpool all sorts of problems. Use a UK credit/debit card if you have one. If you don't then there are ways a family member in the UK can pay for your passport if local cards cause a problem. (I suspect that the local banks querying the international use, but I have used them in the past without a problem.) I'm not sure if VFS Global can help that much so it will probably need telephone calls to the Passport Office to set it up. Be prepared to spend a couple of hours being shifted through the system on the telephone.

 

VFS Global use their own reference number but this doesn't help much when talking to the Passport Office. The first thing to do, (and I would suggest doing it at 12 or 13 weeks after the application), is to get them to give you the real passport office reference number which is a 10 digit number. You will need to have this to move through the departments (called teams) at the Passport Office.

 

Hopefully you will have an easier time than I had today. Quite why the Passport Office cannot use the contact information they have in the form to notify of problems I don't know. I was told by one of the management team that they are not allowed to send outside emails from the office and only a few top level examiners have this right.

One of the other big mysteries of the dreaded With-It Tower Passport Renewal Experience as far as I am concerned is why one part of the Home Office (UKVI) is prepared to allow VFS Global to offer a local payment service in THB for UK visas, while another part (HMPO) is not in the case of UK passport renewals.

Edited September 19, 2022 by OJAS

[brewsterbudgen]

Just now, OJAS said:

One of the other big mysteries of the dreaded With-It Tower Passport Renewal Experience as far as I am concerned is why one part of the Home Office (UKVA) is prepared to allow VFS Global to offer a local payment service in THB for UK visas, whereas another part (HMPO) is not in the case of UK passport renewals.

Good question.  My guess is that for passport renewals the payment is processed in the UK, while for visas it isn't. 

[blackcab]

As this topic has turned into a discussion by members I have moved it to the UK forum.

[DannyS1951]

On 9/16/2022 at 10:22 AM, onebaht said:

did they evr tell you which stage you're at?

 

i'm 13 weeks now and it's just hit the examiner. they only said it will go to the printing stage soon, but no idea about time line.

Yes, I did find out. It was stuck in the payment process, but I was never informed until getting through an awful lot of phone calls to Liverpool. Remember the first thing you need is the Passport Office reference number which is not the one VFS give you. Next thing is if you figure the best way is to get family member in the UK to use their credit card, if the person answering the phone in the 'payment team' is working from home they cannot take credit card information. I would advise anyone to start calling on 10 weeks as in my case at least they didn't contact me. You can ask for the renewal to be 'escalated' if your foreign visa or residence depends on a valid passport. There is a team in Liverpool for renewals of overseas citizens.

 

As for me, I picked up my passport yesterday, exactly 4 months after I applied for it. If I hadn't made the calls I'm pretty sure I wouldn't have had it. Once the problem was sorted it took the two weeks they said it would on the phone.

 

Anyway I've stayed involved with the passport office because an old friend who is seriously ill ask me to help him get his renewed. He has left it extremely late as his passport runs out in November. I think I may be able to speed it up a bit as I've been through the system pretty well. Even so I still managed to write his application in blue ink and was sent away on Thursday. (Remember to use black ink. The passport office's ancient OCR software must have problems discerning blue from white.)

[DannyS1951]

On 9/19/2022 at 11:24 AM, OJAS said:

One of the other big mysteries of the dreaded With-It Tower Passport Renewal Experience as far as I am concerned is why one part of the Home Office (UKVI) is prepared to allow VFS Global to offer a local payment service in THB for UK visas, while another part (HMPO) is not in the case of UK passport renewals.

If they even had an online payment form it would make life far easier, and yes if we are going to use VFS then they should be trusted to take cash payments for passport renewals.

[DannyS1951]

On 9/19/2022 at 11:18 AM, OJAS said:

Ah, but the Embassy did at least inform us (with zero advance warning, of course) of the implementation of the dreaded With-It Tower Passport Renewal Experience way back in 2014! But what they conveniently forgot to tell us was precisely why 2 physical trips to Bangkok from wherever we lived in Thailand were now required as part of the passport renewal process - which remains a complete mystery to this very day.

 

https://www.gov.uk/government/news/changes-to-british-passport-services-in-thailand-2

 

I think you have to go back to the 1980s when the Home Office took over the passport office from the Foreign Office. Even after that they originally allowed 90 consulates to issue passports. This was then cut back to six regional offices. (Ours was Hong Kong.) Then everything was taken back in house in London or now Liverpool. So now in Thailand they use a private contractor in VFS. Anyone who believes in 'small government' and starving the public sector of investment has only themselves to blame, but I would guess VFS makes a profit out of it. Much as I hate going into town, it's probably better than sending the application to Hong Kong. Much better was when you could roll up at the consulate with no appointments and get a new one there.

 

I did talk to someone on the consulate hotline saying that sorting out a friends passport application was less work for the local consulate than visiting him in an immigration jail, and she agreed but their hands were tied. It was hands off anything to do with passport issuing.

[DannyS1951]

Here is some free advice for any Brit worried about renewing their passport before their Thai visa runs out. Like most advice it's probably only worth what you are paying for it:)

 

My own passport renewal took the best part of 4 months. The big problem for me was that there was no communication from the Passport Office to tell me there was a problem. It took quite a few phone calls to find out, but was then fairly quickly sorted out. (You do have to deal with the Passport Office in Liverpool. The Bangkok VFS Global office offers no customer service between giving them the application and them telling you to pick up the passport.)

 

While sorting out my own passport I found out a very old friend was in an even worse position of being 8 weeks away from needing a new passport and extending his visa. He is quite ill and had let it slip. So figuring I had learned enough about the system I offered to help. He has just received an email telling him his new passport is in Bangkok waiting to be picked up. This is exactly 3 weeks since I put in his application. Below is a list of points that may help.

 

1/ Do read the application form once you have printed it out. Although I had made out my form correctly with my friend's I used blue ink to fill it in and get him to sign it. It has to be black ink so I had to return the following day with a new form. (Why the Passport IT system doesn't have OCR that can recognise blue on white seems to say a lot about UK government IT systems.) You will need a new appointment to take the remade form back but the staff can give that to you while you are there.

 

2/ Try, and it can be hard, to be civil to the VFS staff. I have a feeling it's one of those jobs with a very high burn-out rate among its staff. From the security guys on the door to the desk clerks you feel they are expecting arguments and abuse. There nothing to be gained from getting upset with them.

 

3/ If you are unsure whether your passport photos meet the requirements there is an office on the left hand side of the ground floor of Trendy Building where you can get them done. Once the application is accepted VFS will give you a receipt. You should bring this and the old passport when you pick up your new one. VFS will send the paperwork by DHL to Liverpool and you will have a tracking number to see when it gets there. The reference number that VFS gives you doesn't seem to mean anything to the staff at the Passport Office.

 

4/ The Passport Office recommends allowing 12 weeks for a renewed passport, but if you are worried that you have left it late you can talk with them on the phone. The number to call is +44-300-222-0000. Allow a week for your application to get into the system there. The Passport Office is working UK office hours and holidays so check the time. Calling in the morning UK time is pretty bad. The first person answering may well be working from home and as they will probably have to pass you up the chain they face the same problem of getting someone to answer their forwarded call to the office. One of the staff told me that calling at 1PM was about the best time to get through and it seems true.

 

5/ Again try and remain civil. The person you are talking to is constrained by the rules of the system. Tell them you are calling from Thailand. They will ask for you Passport Office reference number which you won't have. They will then search for you in the system using your name. If you are calling for your own application get them to give you the reference number. If you are calling for someone else they are not allowed to give it to you.

 

6/ Now this where it gets important. You will have been passed up the chain of command, hopefully without a lost line making you start again. You should explain that your right to extend your visa and stay in Thailand depends on you having a valid passport. This is an acceptable reason in the Passport Office for making your case an emergency. The phrase to use is "International Case Escalation". With my friend this meant that his new passport is in Bangkok within two weeks of making the telephone call. I was planning on making another call next week but this is no longer needed.

 

7/ So just to finish, best thing is to give yourself plenty of time. If after 12 weeks you haven't heard anything start to make calls to the Passport Office. Do not expect them to either call or email you if there is a problem. Hope this helps anyone facing problems.

 

My other piece of upbeat news is that last week at Chaengwattana immigration having arrived early I was out by 10:05AM having done the changed passport form and the extension followed by a re-entry permit and my 90 day reporting. Not bad at all and with time to have two cups of coffee. That was an early start though, getting to their office before 7AM and getting low queue numbers. Mind you driving over there any later than leaving my place before 6AM adds hours to the trip due to traffic.

 

p.s. For the trolls, there is really no need for you tell us how smart you are and how you would never have any problems. We can just take it that you are all that you say you are.

 

Edited October 14, 2022 by DannyS1951

[PPGuy]

Excellent information from @DannyS1951.

 

Ref your point 7 on not expecting HMPO to make contact should there be a problem.

 

My experience on that was positive in that HMPO did contact me by email, with no prompting from me, and the problem was quickly resolved. This was early last year and it concerned having 2no 'live' UK passports but only wanting 1no to be renewed (I had supplied full copies of both in the application process). The response was from 'SouthportTeam4' was was efficiently dealt with by the team member. As an aside, both current passports were needed to be cancelled at time of collecting the new one.

 

Yes, just a sample of one and others may have negative experience, unlike mine.

 

[OJAS]

On 10/14/2022 at 9:37 PM, DannyS1951 said:

2/ Try, and it can be hard, to be civil to the VFS staff. I have a feeling it's one of those jobs with a very high burn-out rate among its staff. From the security guys on the door to the desk clerks you feel they are expecting arguments and abuse. There nothing to be gained from getting upset with them.

Completely agree with you here. IMHO it's always best to remember that they just do the bidding of those bungling clowns in HMPO back in the UK, who are the real villains of the piece when it comes to the responsibility for the nonsensical procedures we Brits here are subject to at passport renewal time.

 

Anyway, after nearly 9 years of complaining on here about the dreaded With-It Tower Passport Renewal Experience, today provided me with my initial experience of being able to "savour" it first-hand. Thankfully a friend of my wife's, who knows Bangkok like the back of his hand, was prepared to chauffeur me for the 3-hour one-way trip directly to and from that ridiculously-named building in which the VFS office is housed, without the need for me to endure the rigours of the Bangkok public transport system. And I do have to hold my hands up to the VFS staff for the professional manner in which they handled my application - although I do still question the need for me to have to travel to Bangkok in person in order to watch them perform the task of stuffing various docs into an envelope and sending them on their merry way to the UK courtesy of DHL - when anyone with a modicum of intelligence should be more than capable of undertaking this "monumental" feat themselves without the need for a potentially time-consuming diversion via Bangkok. The impression which I have now got is that the current cumbersome passport renewal procedures which we have to endure have been designed purely with the administrative convenience of VFS and their HMPO masters in mind and with zero regard for the personal convenience of those whom they are meant to serve.

 

I did, however, encounter a couple of particular irritations which may be of interest to those with weak bladders and/or coming by car:-

 

(1) As far as I could tell, there were no loos on either the 5th floor where we had parked the car or the 8th floor where the VFS office was located - or even in the VFS office itself. IMHO this is an absolutely disgraceful and unacceptable state of affairs, particularly for those of us who are obliged to travel a considerable distance under our own steam. Thankfully I was able to hang on until the motorway service area on the return leg - but only just!

 

(2) Upon leaving the VFS office at the conclusion of the process we observed someone who appeared to be stamping car parking tickets, presumably with the aim of obtaining parking charge discounts. However we had left our ticket in the car and could not face another lengthy return trip to the 8th floor (only 1 of the 2 lifts serving the 5th and 8th floors was in service, with consequential lengthy waits), so we were hit with a charge of 150 THB as a result. Now why on earth could not VFS have specifically mentioned in their appointment confirmation letter the need to keep parking tickets on us in person rather than leave them in the car?????

 

Finally, the official waiting time for new passports is still 11 weeks minimum as of now.........