Utter madness.

[Leaver]

On 10/21/2022 at 4:57 AM, BigStar said:

I do, owing to my living here for decades and reading countless oracular prophecies by our ace forum Economists, Urban Planners, Construction Engineers, and Tourism Authorities that always turn out laughably wrong. Any prediction posted here means the opposite will happen in reality. So it is with yours.

 

A lot of your posts criticize members who are critical of Pattaya / Thailand.

 

Rather than criticizing the member, perhaps you can post about what Pattaya / Thailand authorities are doing right here.

 

I've asked before, "Name something that has been build here for the benefit of tourists, and the tourism industry, in recent years."  No other member replied, but it should be an easy question for you to answer. 

 

Perhaps you would also like to comment on Thailand's progressive governance since 2014 as well.  ???? 

 

Edited October 27, 2022 by Leaver

[BigStar]

1 hour ago, Leaver said:

I've asked before, "Name something that has been build here for the benefit of tourists, and the tourism industry, in recent years."  No other member replied, but it should be an easy question for you to answer. 

Easy, of course, but utterly pointless, as you'd simply ignore, deflect illogically, move the goalpost, throw out a red herring to exaggerate, repeat a meaningless anecdote, come out with another irrelevant hypothetical, repeat more nonsense, forget, or simply lie.

 

No, thanks; been there, done that a number of times, as have most of us here. Carry on.????

[BigStar]

On 10/26/2022 at 6:29 AM, thaibeachlovers said:

Pattaya used to be a cheap and cheerful town, with plenty of people making money and happy visitors.

Still cheap (relatively), pre-COVID had more people than ever making money and more happy visitors than ever.

 

Now recovering; that'll take time, obviously.

 

COVID has been a big happy money maker for certain narrow segments, everywhere. At the expense of the tourist and other sectors.  

 

On 10/26/2022 at 6:29 AM, thaibeachlovers said:

All that extra money hasn't made it a better place, and it stopped being cheerful long ago, so if that's a success story, you are welcome to it.

Better, for far more people than before. Some sectors did better, economically, than others, as they always do in the course of time. I liked some things much better about Old Pattaya and am sad they're gone. But not everything; and I don't miss the bad points. I also like much about the new Pattaya; my needs are met, and I'm comfortable.

 

Guess I don't find it that difficult to adapt to change. But if I did, I'd hardly roll up into a foetal position and cry. Nobody's responsible for your own happiness but you.

 

Incredible as it may seem here, I always find myself in similar company in Pattaya. I only encounter whingers exaggerating the "problem" posed by the irregular pavements, flooding a few times a year during low season, etc., here on the forum. Traffic, now, is a frequently mentioned topic among "normal" expats, but we work around it, just as back home. It's hardly that imagined Nail In The Coffin our doomsters and haters try to portray it as.

 

We have a very narrow definition of "people" here, of course; for many, it's reminiscent of claims that "the darkies used to be so much happier as slaves on their plantations." Flip a few satang, get nice smiles and servility.

 

I dunno how cheerful "they" need to be, actually. In general, the world became a less cheerful place following the ubiquity of social media. It's been remarked in many places other than Pattaya.

[thaibeachlovers]

4 hours ago, BigStar said:

Better, for far more people than before. Some sectors did better, economically, than others, as they always do in the course of time. I liked some things much better about Old Pattaya and am sad they're gone. But not everything; and I don't miss the bad points. I also like much about the new Pattaya; my needs are met, and I'm comfortable.

Just what was "bad" ( for farangs ) about Pattaya in early 90s? The great stink was gone, the beach walkway was actually pleasant to walk along, traffic was within reason given size of roads, no wanabe farangs dressed up like cops, though Walking Street had yet to eventuate, and even when it did they didn't for some years, crime against farangs was minimal, baht buses were cheap, I don't recall floods on the scale of now, Buakhao was just a narrow street somewhere, and people were mainly happy, far as I saw.

While it was many years ago, my memory isn't so bad that I'd only remember the good bits. If I had any complaint about those times, it was that the bus service from Ekamai took over 4 hours and the buses were apparently rejects from other companies.

[thaibeachlovers]

5 hours ago, BigStar said:

Traffic, now, is a frequently mentioned topic among "normal" expats, but we work around it, just as back home. It's hardly that imagined Nail In The Coffin our doomsters and haters try to portray it as.

I'd never say that the traffic was a nail in the coffin, but when it's un necessary to have congested traffic, it's a blight on lives, and causes massive pollution. Is it un necessary in Pattaya? Absolutely, as the administration could have prevented it, but obviously hasn't.

Put traffic in the same category as floods, which could be eliminated given a competent administration, but Pattaya apparently doesn't have such.

I don't need to explain why Pattaya administration doesn't solve problems, as any that care would know the reason. Hint- the word begins with "c".

[thaibeachlovers]

5 hours ago, BigStar said:

We have a very narrow definition of "people" here, of course; for many, it's reminiscent of claims that "the darkies used to be so much happier as slaves on their plantations." Flip a few satang, get nice smiles and servility.

 

I dunno how cheerful "they" need to be, actually. In general, the world became a less cheerful place following the ubiquity of social media. It's been remarked in many places other than Pattaya.

My definition of "people" would apply only to farangs. LOS ain't my country, and I felt/ feel no responsibility to make their lives better, as it's their country, and their responsibility.

For sure, Pattaya made a lot of Thais better off than they would have been without it and good luck to them that it did, but without happy farangs, it wouldn't have done so.

Let's remember that without farangs, Pattaya today would not exist. It may no longer rely on farangs, but without them in the 80s and 90s it'd be just another <deleted> town on the coast.

 

IMO social media has been the worst thing that happened to humanity, short of world wars and plague on the scale of 1918.

Edited October 27, 2022 by thaibeachlovers

[thaibeachlovers]

6 hours ago, BigStar said:

Easy, of course, but utterly pointless, as you'd simply ignore, deflect illogically, move the goalpost, throw out a red herring to exaggerate, repeat a meaningless anecdote, come out with another irrelevant hypothetical, repeat more nonsense, forget, or simply lie.

 

No, thanks; been there, done that a number of times, as have most of us here. Carry on.????

Excuses, excuses. 

Can you think of anything built recently that benefits "tourists"? Simple question easily answered without deflecting.

You are never short of a sarcastic comment about other posters, including myself specifically, so perhaps you could enlighten us with an actual answer.

 

I'll give you a hand with the projects that DIDN'T benefit tourists.

Marina- fail

Present beach walkway- fail

widening Beach Rd- fail

Flood prevention works- fail

Allowing too many tourist buses on Second and Beach Rds- fail

Too many big malls- fail

Allowing speedboats to destroy the walkway to the lighthouse- fail

Big eyesore blocking the lookout- fail

The big blue concrete expanse in front of the big eyesore- fail

the car park building that destroyed the Bali Hi park- fail

A pier that is falling apart- fail

Beach reclamation that washes away when it rains- fail

Walkway that collapses- fail

 

Edited October 27, 2022 by thaibeachlovers

[thaibeachlovers]

On 10/22/2022 at 9:50 AM, redwood1 said:

Beans on Toast, happy hour drinking, retired, expat farang made Pattaya what it is today.....And our opinions matter......We just need cheap prices and lots of Issan farm girl to make Pattaya great again...And we need to get rid of the other foreigners and the malls too..

Quite right too. Pattaya never needed the big malls that only brought in the day trippers from Bkk clogging up the roads.

It was doing fine with the three it had in the early 90s.

 

People apparently forget that farang mongers made Pattaya, along with the girls and boys that catered to them.

[thaibeachlovers]

15 hours ago, BigStar said:

A doomster post never expires, as you've reminded us by gloating that your ancient warning had come true when COVID decimated the Pattaya economy--which of course had nothing to do with your "reasons" for prophesying Pattaya's coming ruin. They were only about the imagined neglect and mistreatment of tourists, notably mongers.

 

But years later you doubled down on the Central Festival prophecy by inventing the Stalls of Doom Indicator: vendor stalls in front of the mall in the evenings meant it was in financial trouble. 'Course, Central Marina had had such stalls, permanently, since the 90s.

 

And since you're now claiming that Indians and Chinese will thwart Pattaya's success, it's only fair to bring up your track record. You may not like it, but it has nothing whatsoever to do with stalking. I at first made a very deliberate attempt to avoid mentioning your moniker, did I not? And I of course have no file on anyone--no one's of any importance here, except in their own minds--but I do happen to have a pretty good memory. Indeed, I make it a point to take care of it, best I can. ????

 

You are deflecting. There is no excuse to be bringing up things I said many many years ago, that have nothing to do with present realities, other than to be offensive, and I am offended.

[thaibeachlovers]

On 10/24/2022 at 12:05 AM, Mac Mickmanus said:

^ The guy needs some help and assistance , rather than ridicule 

Some posters are only into ridicule. I guess they get off by attacking other posters with sarcastic inanities.

[thaibeachlovers]

On 10/24/2022 at 3:19 AM, Onerak said:

And more brothels fronting as bars added to attract quality tourists in search of brides and orgies. Why someone would come to Thailand otherwise?

No brothels in your country then?

[BonMot]

On 10/8/2022 at 1:59 PM, kinyara said:

" Where Westerners met local women " - sleazy sex prowlers negotiating with street hookers, it must be uncomfortable for them now with no shade.

The women that prowl Beach road have always been notoriously crazy, diseased or both.

[thaibeachlovers]

8 minutes ago, BonMot said:

The women that prowl Beach road have always been notoriously crazy, diseased or both.

Only to people that don't know better.

 

PS I'm not including the ladyboys that harassed passersby. They were a hazard the cops should have done something about.

[Onerak]

1 hour ago, thaibeachlovers said:

No brothels in your country then?

No brothels fronting as bars. Yes there are brothels in one county out of 3142 counties.

[morrobay]

Meanwhile -Utter madness. If the city cared about tourist they would have constructed about three  pedestrian bridges over Beach Rd. Instead more bogus kickback projects including those traffic lights that increase danger for those unaware how locals as well as some foreigners drive around here. And what is this project going to bring ? More traffic on and off this glorified road the city calls a promenade. Pickup parties. Forget about it. Lost cause.

[BonMot]

4 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Only to people that don't know better.

 

PS I'm not including the ladyboys that harassed passersby. They were a hazard the cops should have done something about.

Yes, but those monsters only come out at night as I recall.

 

Boys in bras...

 

I'd love to know the true crime statistic on those lads over a span of years.

[Dene16]

On 10/7/2022 at 3:46 PM, wwest5829 said:

Sorry to disappoint but my first introduction to Thailand, I did not seek either brothels, brides nor orgies. I was introduced to Thai girls who treated me as a BF

By your second introduction had you then wised up to realise what you were actually missing?

 

On 10/8/2022 at 7:00 AM, wwest5829 said:

Who knows what it is exactly that attracts one person to another.

So what your really trying to say when you state you did lots of research, you came to the opinion (in your own words) 'that as you were fat and not that particularly wealthy' there was still a reasonable chance you could snatch a woman in Thailand as your limited funds would still impress.

Lets face it once you've seen one temple your seen them all.

[morrobay]

And again for those that arrived late this is just above walking st across from the Pattaya lands ,sois 13/4 and 13/3. Compared to that utter mess there now. This photo is representative of the 2000,s . You don't have to go back in history to the 80s and 90s for crissake.

[Leaver]

13 hours ago, BigStar said:

Easy, of course

 

So easy, you couldn't name any.   ????

[BigStar]

11 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Just what was "bad" ( for farangs ) about Pattaya in early 90s?

We've been over that before, yawn. I've quoted for you a contemporary account listing some reprehensible flaws. Oh, you didn't notice any of them--then. Too busy enjoying Connect4, I suppose. Hee. So it would be with anything I noted. And I found a video for you showing some of the flaws regularly condemned here, which you rationalized away. You've forgotten all of that previous discussion. Indeed, you've forgotten the negative points you yourself have brought up from that period. And you'd quickly forget any refresher I gave you.

 

Moreover, some things I really liked flew by you; other things I didn't, you either didn't notice wouldn't care about.

 

So, enough of the wasting time and giving you the rub of attention you seek.

 

12 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

While it was many years ago, my memory isn't so bad that I'd only remember the good bits.

Oh, it mostly is, except that we have to take into account selective perception where you failed to observe the bad bits that others did at the time and documented them. But you don't like my bringing up the past, so I guess you'll just have to trust me on that point.????

 

 

 

 

 

[BigStar]

11 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

I'll give you a hand with the projects that DIDN'T benefit tourists.

I can give you such a list from more than a decade ago and similar complaints in the 90s, including about the supposedly great Promenade then. Now this has always been one of our fave recreations here, esp. by the Brits but even disaffected miserable members of the Commonwealth.

 

Moreover, we have the great Whinge thread of perennial, long-standing, never-ending complaints. I don't know that one of these problems has ever been resolved:

 

 

Nonetheless, after all the thousands of whinges, dire prophecies, and obituaries over the decades--as Ulysses G. (miss that guy) wrote on March 9, 2007:

 

How many Pattaya Sucks threads do we need anyway? ????

 

--which our members greatly enjoyed then and do now as well, no matter how ridiculous those Prophecies seem in retrospect (ooh-we don't like them quoted!) Pattaya's tourism trade and economic growth continued anyway and rather impressively, DUH. And I'd bet with the big players that the trend will continue. You may continue to blather how it can't happen all you wish, same old stuff. It obviously gives life a lot of meaning that would otherwise be absent.

 

[BigStar]

12 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

My definition of "people" would apply only to farangs.

It's nice to see the racism and naked bigotry on the forum admitted. So, we'll give you that, and hope that more of our Brits (most often) and Commonwealth members will come out as well. Maybe preface statements with something like, "I'm a racist bigot, so here's what I think." ???? So much more honest.

 

12 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Let's remember that without farangs, Pattaya today would not exist.

The old mongers did their bit, no? We'll always wish them well. Hic! Still, Pattaya generously provides flophouses and monger entertainment to meet the current market. Too generously, in fact.

 

12 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

I felt/ feel no responsibility to make their lives better, as it's their country, and their responsibility.

Exactly. In turn, they should feel no responsibility to make your life better.???? But as noted, I do feel my life is also better than in the old days, overall. So they've been doing OK. OH--could they do better? HOW LONG? Heh. Love this forum.

[thaibeachlovers]

21 hours ago, Onerak said:

No brothels fronting as bars. Yes there are brothels in one county out of 3142 counties.

That's only the ones you know about.

 

In NZ before brothels became legal many "massage" places were fronts for prostitution.

 

In the UK it's in private rooms, not brothels per se.

[thaibeachlovers]

11 hours ago, BigStar said:

It's nice to see the racism and naked bigotry on the forum admitted. So, we'll give you that, and hope that more of our Brits (most often) and Commonwealth members will come out as well. Maybe preface statements with something like, "I'm a racist bigot, so here's what I think." ???? So much more honest.

 

The old mongers did their bit, no? We'll always wish them well. Hic! Still, Pattaya generously provides flophouses and monger entertainment to meet the current market. Too generously, in fact.

 

Exactly. In turn, they should feel no responsibility to make your life better.???? But as noted, I do feel my life is also better than in the old days, overall. So they've been doing OK. OH--could they do better? HOW LONG? Heh. Love this forum.

It's nice to see the racism and naked bigotry on the forum admitted. So, we'll give you that, and hope that more of our Brits (most often) and Commonwealth members will come out as well. Maybe preface statements with something like, "I'm a racist bigot, so here's what I think." So much more honest.

In the rush to post a sarcastic comment per your usual operating procedure you failed to comprehend what I actually posted, which was that my comments only refer to farangs. If you want to make that a racist statement, carry on- you just make yourself look foolish.

 

Exactly. In turn, they should feel no responsibility to make your life better.

Yes, but if they want my money they need to give me something worth paying for. I never expected them to love me while taking my cash.

 

But as noted, I do feel my life is also better than in the old days, overall.

Sure, as long as YOU are doing OK, that's all that counts. Never mind that Pattaya isn't doing well, despite it could be better with competent administrators.

 

Next?

 

On 10/28/2022 at 1:04 AM, Leaver said:

I've asked before, "Name something that has been build here for the benefit of tourists, and the tourism industry, in recent years."  No other member replied, but it should be an easy question for you to answer. 

Still no reply to that question I see-  can't think of anything that is better for tourists perhaps.

Edited October 28, 2022 by thaibeachlovers

[BigStar]

12 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

what I actually posted, which was that my comments only refer to farangs.

Ah, just a Freudian slip. Your credit, rescinded.

 

11 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Yes, but if they want my money they need to give me something worth paying for.

It's entirely your responsibility, not theirs, to perform your own prior due diligence whether what they're offering is worth your cash to you.

 

Hence you can end your countless little whinges about how they're not doing, and didn't do, what you'd like. Yep, they don't owe you a d.a.mn thing. You think you can find that champagne on a beer budget you've always thought you should have, go find it and report back.

 

Reminds me of a P. D. Mangan tweet the other day.

 

There's nothing that gets people more upset than telling them that they might be responsible for their problems.

 

He gets a lot of grief as a fitness trainer when he refuses to accept all the usual excuses.

 

Anyway, works well for me. What I buy, I usually find more than worth paying for. I tend to appreciate the intrinsics as well. And I also receive quite a lot free of charge, 'cause I don't need to pay. It's an entirely different mindset, you see; it's perceived as such and rewarded. ????

 

11 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

I never expected them to love me while taking my cash.

And so they of course didn't and then took all your cash, since it's all you really had to offer. Therein we find a reason you're stuck shovelling dirt in NZ and longing to get back to Pattaya. Only karma, eh. 

 

11 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Sure, as long as YOU are doing OK, that's all that counts. Never mind that Pattaya isn't doing well, despite it could be better with competent administrators.

I do my humble part, sustainably, without the usual Delusions of Farang Grandeur, along with the other expats who live here--while you merely point fingers from abroad accompanied by gratuitous well-seasoned Economic Advice. 

 

Moreover, Pattaya's doing pretty well considering the global devastation wrought by COVID. It's another crowded weekend, in fact. Having had my own walk on the beach, I may later head in for the Bikini Beach Run and a party afterwards. Now I dunno how many "people" will actually attend, so that may be a particular issue for you, but a lot of businesses will certainly benefit.

 

Nor do you have the slightest evidence that any more tourists, including "people" looking to exploit impoverished girls, would be arriving even anyone paid attention to your whinges and redressed them. Before COVID, Pattaya had about 9 million international visitors, making it a top resort in SE Asia already. That, just doing what it does, same as it always has. It could do with far fewer tourists, actually. Your goal should be to shrink the economy back to the 1995 level.????

 

So the urgent need for "more" is mostly forum rhetoric for justifying posters' superior wisdom and bigotry. Nonetheless, the big money, paying no attention as usual to forum Economists--or perhaps using them as a reverse indicator--is planning for more, not less.

 

Ironically, more of your people wouldn't be much attracted by all the improvements mandated by the members of the ace ANF Urban Planning Governance Board. That's cause their main problem is they're skint. Drop the THB to 100/GBPeso and then you'll see a flood.

[Onerak]

14 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

That's only the ones you know about.

 

In NZ before brothels became legal many "massage" places were fronts for prostitution.

 

In the UK it's in private rooms, not brothels per se.

I am talking about brothels (mainly fronting as bars) not prostitution. I have travelled to more than 30 countries in all continents (except Australia) and not a single country where I did not find prostitution. No wonder it is called the World's oldest profession. 

[DezLez]

9 minutes ago, Onerak said:

I am talking about brothels (mainly fronting as bars) not prostitution. I have travelled to more than 30 countries in all continents (except Australia) and not a single country where I did not find prostitution. No wonder it is called the World's oldest profession. 

Are you a sex fiend or something?

You have "travelled to more than 30 countries...and not one where I did not find prostitution!"  Did you go to find the brothels or just "come across" the street walkers.

[CharlieH]

Reported flame post removed.

[Rimmer]

Off topic bickering and baiting posts removed, topic is about:

Pattaya caused chaos by extending and repairing road and footpaths on beach road

[champers]

A quick update from the Beach Rd works:

No parking bays are being built, just more palm trees planted and new paving blocks and kerbs are delivered and await fitting. From Dusit Thani they are now down to Soi 5.

I watched the works near me today, mostly handballing buckets of concrete for some basic formwork. The workers are from Myanmar and about half of them are women, some very pretty ones too under all the grime and sun protection. I am told that they are the best workers about and will work a month solid of 12 hour shifts without a day off. Thais only want to work Monday to Friday and for only 8 hours per day. Pay is about 400 to 500 Baht per day depending on skillset. It is heavy manual work but they all seemed cheery enough.