Can Thai tradition of indebtedness, gratitude to parents cause more harm than good?

[webfact]

 

Thai society’s deep tradition of respect for elders means children are always expected to show gratitude to their parents. The long-held custom means children are also barred from taking legal action against an abusive father or mother.

 

However, this prohibition came under the spotlight recently when a 24-year-old woman begged a foundation to take her father to court on her behalf. She wanted payback for her beloved cat, which was abandoned by her dad before being run over and killed by a car.

 

While many Thais were shocked by her decision to sue a parent, others were worried about the controversial Civil and Commercial Code’s Article 1562. It states that nobody can file a lawsuit against their parents, no matter what is in dispute.

 

Full story: https://www.thaipbsworld.com/can-thai-tradition-of-indebtedness-gratitude-to-parents-cause-more-harm-than-good/

 

-- © Copyright Thai PBS 2022-10-10

 

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[H508]

Absolutely causes more harm than good. For the majority of Thai people that are poor, instead of saving money and providing a better life for their kids, they're having to spend that money on parents instead, so they're never moving forward. Granted this is more in general and not specific to the article which deals more with lawsuits.

Edited October 9, 2022 by H508

[RichardColeman]

2 hours ago, H508 said:

instead of saving money and providing a better life for their kids, they're having to spend that money on parents instead, so they're never moving forward.

Yes, but is that the kids fault or the government having priorities wrong and not giving money where they should be ? Pensions for instance. Would it be right for kids to save or leave the house knowing their parents would be potless ? 

[stoner]

3 hours ago, webfact said:

It states that nobody can file a lawsuit against their parents, no matter what is in dispute.

these kind of laws will hamper this country and culture for decades to come, 

[Orinoco]

Oh dear Thailand's standard pension fund model is being questioned !!!!!!!!!!!!!

Could be trouble at Mill on this one. 

 

 

 

Edited October 9, 2022 by Orinoco

[Gknrd]

I used to think this was the best, kids taking care of the elder.  But, after living here for a few years I have changed my mind. I love the independence of having a pension and being able to go where I want and not having to depend on anyone. When the time is right just throw me in a bin and go on with your life. 

[MikeyIdea]

Only for those who don't understand it. There's nothing perfect though

[ikke1959]

THai society should be get een update to 21st century instead of staying in the 19th century. But the old fashoned Government will keep things in place as it is a Thai tradition.

[Gecko123]

Section 1562. Lawsuit Against Ascendants

No person can enter an action, either civil or criminal, against his ascendants, unless the case is taken up by the Public Prosecutor upon application of such person or a close relative of such person.

 

The law doesn't seem to prevent any civil or criminal action against parents as the article initially suggests. The law, as is clarified further down in the body of the PBS article, merely says the public prosecutor has to find merit in the case before the civil or criminal action can proceed. In my opinion, that's not an onerously high obstacle standing in the way of justice.

 

Edit:

 

Further down in the article it says: "According to Thai law, people suffering at the hands of their parents can ask their close relatives to file a police complaint and let justice run its course via public prosecutors." That appears to be an imprecise paraphrasing of the law. The law doesn't say the child has to get a close relative to agree to the action. Either the child or a relative can seek the public prosecutor's agreement that the case has merit. It's not clear what the public prosecutor's role would be in a civil case as public prosecutors usually only handle criminal cases, but as the public prosecutor handles all criminal prosecutions, once the prosecutor finds that the case has merit, I don't see how a criminal case with a minor as a plaintiff would be handled any differently than any other criminal case.

 

Edited October 10, 2022 by Gecko123

[Enoon]

Yes it can.

 

It belongs to another planet, in an age long past.

 

It's just one example of the morass of anachronistic **** that the people have their heads buried in

 

They can choke on it for all I care.

 

 

[Enoon]

 

4 hours ago, H508 said:

Absolutely causes more harm than good. For the majority of Thai people that are poor, instead of saving money and providing a better life for their kids, they're having to spend that money on parents instead, so they're never moving forward. Granted this is more in general and not specific to the article which deals more with lawsuits.

I bought a farm for a girlfriend.

 

She gave it to her ******* Aunt!

 

 

[MikeyIdea]

16 minutes ago, Gecko123 said:

Section 1562. Lawsuit Against Ascendants

 

No person can enter an action, either civil or criminal, against his ascendants, unless the case is taken up by the Public Prosecutor upon application of such person or a close relative of such person.

 

The law doesn't seem to prevent any civil or criminal action against parents as the article suggests. The law merely says the public prosecutor has to find merit in the case before the civil or criminal action can proceed. That's not an onerously high obstacle standing in the way of justice.

 

Well said Gecko. The purpose of the law is not to stop justice if justice is deserved. Just bad journalism again 

[Gottfrid]

Yes, it´s very harmful for the whole society. The fact is that children are not always feeling greatful to their parents. They are just teaching them to lie from childhood. The cause is that they do not feel the difference between greatful and righteous. 

[H508]

19 minutes ago, Enoon said:

 

I bought a farm for a girlfriend.

 

She gave it to her ******* Aunt!

 

 

That stings. Reason/justification given and what was the ultimate fallout with the girlfriend on this topic?

[spidermike007]

Anytime tradition is carried out without any questions asked, is not healthy. And the secondary aspect of this tradition of respect, is the inability for the offspring to ever question or challenge their parents, no matter how wrong they are. That is damaging to society. 

[Caldera]

Too much of a good thing - can definitely be bad! I've seen many examples of parents shamelessly exploiting their obedient children (grown ups, on paper anyway, at the time).

[2baht]

5 hours ago, webfact said:

Thai society’s deep tradition of respect for elders

Is it actual respect or superficial respect like so many things in Thailand!

[Purdey]

Westerners commenting here have forgotten history and the times when for example the UK had no national insurance and children worked in coal mines; Thailand still has no pension scheme for anyone except government officers. I remember this conversation many years ago. 

Me to government officer, "Why on earth are you happy to work in this ministry for 15,000 baht a month?"

Officer, "I will have a pension at 60 and my parents will have health coverage until they die."

Me, " Why didn't they save money?"

Him, " How much do you think they could save on 20,000 Baht a month and two children to feed and send to school?"

They are not given a pension scheme. They need their children to survive, so instilling the culture of filial respect is an absolute necessity, just as it was in early 20th century UK. 

[Bangkok Barry]

According to Thai law, people suffering at the hands of their parents can ask their close relatives to file a police complaint and let justice run its course via public prosecutors.

 

So, that makes the entire article pointless. Kids can take parents to court through a third party, even close family.

[peter zwart]

6 hours ago, H508 said:

Absolutely causes more harm than good. For the majority of Thai people that are poor, instead of saving money and providing a better life for their kids, they're having to spend that money on parents instead, so they're never moving forward. Granted this is more in general and not specific to the article which deals more with lawsuits.

spot on

 

[473geo]

1 hour ago, 2baht said:

Is it actual respect or superficial respect like so many things in Thailand!

So many differing circumstances, almost too numerous to list, there will be those on the forum who buy into the family care scene wholeheartedly and if it is working for them credit due 

 

I follow partially in that the family care philosophy slows if I perceive any hint of a participant extracting the urine or seeking to take advantage

 

How about a situation where you are working your nuts off to give the wife enough baht to help out her parents, and the parents never have anything because they are generously jai dee with relatives and friends 

Just by way of example ???? should you be pleased the parents are receiving good karma? Or perhaps annoyed they are spraying your assistance against the wall ????

 

 

 

[Emster23]

43 minutes ago, Purdey said:

Westerners commenting here have forgotten history and the times when for example the UK had no national insurance and children worked in coal mines; Thailand still has no pension scheme for anyone except government officers. I remember this conversation many years ago. 

Me to government officer, "Why on earth are you happy to work in this ministry for 15,000 baht a month?"

Officer, "I will have a pension at 60 and my parents will have health coverage until they die."

Me, " Why didn't they save money?"

Him, " How much do you think they could save on 20,000 Baht a month and two children to feed and send to school?"

They are not given a pension scheme. They need their children to survive, so instilling the culture of filial respect is an absolute necessity, just as it was in early 20th century UK. 

Pretty much nailed it, but I'll add a bit. Who in their right minds would bet their "golden years" income on a pension in this volatile political/fiscal climate over having children to provide them with the basic necessities of old age? Children ARE the pension source. And let us not forget that those of you who partake of "working girls". Those young women send much of their income home to the family, which often are poor dirt farmers. So your "date" may party, laugh, etc with you.... but it may just be part of the great merit of taking care of your family any way they can. And lord knows the education here is so awful they only have the resource of their bodies to make a living

[473geo]

1 hour ago, Purdey said:

Westerners commenting here have forgotten history and the times when for example the UK had no national insurance and children worked in coal mines; Thailand still has no pension scheme for anyone except government officers. I remember this conversation many years ago. 

Me to government officer, "Why on earth are you happy to work in this ministry for 15,000 baht a month?"

Officer, "I will have a pension at 60 and my parents will have health coverage until they die."

Me, " Why didn't they save money?"

Him, " How much do you think they could save on 20,000 Baht a month and two children to feed and send to school?"

They are not given a pension scheme. They need their children to survive, so instilling the culture of filial respect is an absolute necessity, just as it was in early 20th century UK. 

I agree even now in the west the working generation pay the pensions

In the cities your claim that the parents need their children may well be true, in the rural communities there are a surprising amount of self sufficient oldies, I know of a few who still occasionally provide financial support to their working children, the subsistence model is still very active

The issue for me is salary levels, as things are the elite have a cheap, subservient, available, workforce supply, under the cloak of being good devoted respectful children perhaps 'culture' works very conveniently for some

 

[Walker88]

This is a tradition rife with abuse, whatever positive elements it might have. I suspect we've all known Thais who live in penury, and often do work they would prefer not to do, because a mother unloads buckets of guilt on them. "I need a new iPhone! I'm so embarrassed to still be using an iPhone 10 when some in the village have 13s and 14s. Why did I take such good care of you? This is how you repay?"

 

I know women who resent their mother or grandmother for inflicting this guilt trip on them. The daughters obey, but it is not out of love.  What's the percent who get abused like this, vs those who gladly follow this tradition? I don't know, but if I had to give an over/under, I might guess 80% resent the practice.

 

The system also perpetuates itself, because the child can never save, so must inflict the same guilt trip on her own daughter.

 

The agogos of Pattaya and Bangkok are filled with women who are victims of this 'cultural tradition'.

 

Whatever the system might have once been in the West, there are plenty of examples Thailand could follow to free children from this overbearing obligation. Thailand still has the normal pyramid-shape age demographic profile, so more young could contribute to a system where the fewer aged folks benefit. Thailand isn't yet Japan or Italy. Best take advantage while they still can.

 

As Thais are so wont to say, however, "Up to them".

Edited October 10, 2022 by Walker88

[StevieAus]

4 hours ago, Gknrd said:

I used to think this was the best, kids taking care of the elder.  But, after living here for a few years I have changed my mind. I love the independence of having a pension and being able to go where I want and not having to depend on anyone. When the time is right just throw me in a bin and go on with your life. 

That's okay when you have a decent pension to live on, try surviving on 600 baht government pension per month or 700 baht when you reach 70 years old. 

Many of the old people here would be in dire straits without family support. 

[stoner]

3 hours ago, 2baht said:

Is it actual respect or superficial respect like so many things in Thailand!

what you don't automatically wai at little prayer stations and what not ? then go on to say steal money from the bank you work at and deny it.

 

[Skeptic7]

Yes. 

[hotchilli]

7 hours ago, RichardColeman said:

Would it be right for kids to save or leave the house knowing their parents would be potless ? 

The cycle of life for the poorer end in Thailand..

parents scrape money together to send the kids to University.

The kids get a reasonable job and take care of the parents, once parents are deceased they do the same for their kids.

The richer end of the scale have children who are millionaires by mid twenties...

not mentioning any names.

[Enzian]

My gf from Khon Kaen told me how years back she reached a point where she had to tell he parents she was no longer giving them her earnings from Bangkok. Recently she complained that her father had failed to wish her happy birthday, and when she mentioned it to him he told her to get lost. I know him a little, he's an old jerk, and deserved to be cut off.

[Photoguy21]

From many reports the respect and honouring parents seems to be gone. How many murders have been committed by children on parents? This article was true 30 years ago but now most of the children have an entitled attitude and will do literally anything to their family if refused.