Taking the plunge

[Liverpool Lou]

16 minutes ago, nigelforbes said:

Ah well, that settles it then, why ever didn't you say so in the first place. If you've never heard of one single report of anyone having any issues, there must be none and that must be the answer.......case closed, jury dismissed!

The point is, you haven't heard of any of those reports either and you're the one who claims that they exist.

[BritTim]

3 hours ago, Lacessit said:

There are legitimate agents, and those who bend the rules via various stratagems. If a corrupt agent or IO gets caught, it's the foreigner that will catch most of the flak.

If you are worried about honest officials taking action against corrupt officials and agents who know how to navigate the law, quit worrying. Worry even less if you are one of the customers of such an agent. Honest officials will only take action if actual laws are broken, and only if you broke them.

 

Under certain very rare circumstances, you might have to worry about dishonest officials other than those gaming the system to approve legal extensions. You might also have to worry if using an agent who fails to correctly take advantage of the loopholes in the law that currently facilitate the agent assisted extensions racket.

 

I am not sure how many agent assisted extensions occur in Thailand annually. I am sure that it is many thousands at a minimum. What I can say (and this is going to encourage a troll - sorry) is that there has never been a post on this board or a credible news article suggesting foreigners are being arrested and deported because they use agents. There have been cases where agents were arrested and prosecuted, but only for fraud against their customers (who have not suffered any legal consequences).

 

Past performance does not guarantee future results, and I make no claim that using an agent to facilitate an extension is absolutely zero risk. In my judgment, the risk is extremely low, and has nothing to do with the legality of the process.

[Neeranam]

11 hours ago, nigelforbes said:

Let me see, can I providing supporting evidence that people who scam Immigration department into believing they have 800k in the bank, when they don't, will be removed.

 

Nope, and anyone with even an iota of common sense doesn't need any either. 

I'd say it depends how the OP can sleep at night. I certainly wouldn't want to be an illegal immigrant in any country, especially one I wanted to live for many years. 

Chances are the agent is paying off senior police, so you are 'protected' but here the power changes so often that these police could be under scrutiny from the army, for example, and they won't care about the rights of the illegals.

If I did do it, I don't need to as I'm Thai, but I wouldn't post on a public forum about it, as obviously bypassing immigration requirements is illegal. 

[Neeranam]

3 hours ago, nigelforbes said:

It's one thing for a person to use an agent to simplify the interface with Immi., especially older expats. I use an agent who handles all of my Immi requirements every year and I pay them 5,000 baht in fees per year for the service. But the agent is legit, I have funds on deposit so the 800k is mine, not the agents plus I'm playing by the Immi. rules.

5,000 baht for what? It would only take an hour or two a year! Maybe that includes 90 day reporting?

[BritTim]

29 minutes ago, nigelforbes said:

Ah well, that settles it then, why ever didn't you say so in the first place. If you've never heard of one single report of anyone having any issues, there must be none and that must be the answer.......case closed, jury dismissed!

The fact that no one can point at a single case where this has happened does not prove that it has never happened. That is true. However, it does rather call into question your assertion that using an agent to facilitate your extension is high risk. If there have been as many as 100 cases in the last 30 years, none of them having become public knowledge, that would still not make the process high risk, bearing in mind the total number of such extensions processed every year.

[Mac Mickmanus]

11 hours ago, nigelforbes said:

If you stay and if you don't get caught, you may change your thinking on this subject. Most long term legitimate expats, the ones who really can afford to live here, get pretty pee'd off with the antics of the few that can't and who break all the rules. In retaliation, Immigration implements even more draconian rules which makes life even harder for everyone, even though most of us have played by the rules. The rule about seasoning the 400/800k, two months before and every month after, that's because of people like YOU.

It really isn't . 

Immigration WANT people to use agents  , they want people to pay an agent 20 000 odd Baht to get a visa , because they receive a part of that .

   They don't want people paying 1900 Baht , because they don't get a cut from that .

  Immigration make life difficult for you, so that you pay to use an agent 

[DrJack54]

6 minutes ago, Neeranam said:

If did do it, I don't need to as I'm Thai, but I wouldn't post on a public forum about it, as obviously bypassing immigration requirements is illegal

I was wondering if this could be just one post where you did not mention Thai citizenship.

But alas not to be. 

Your post regarding agents is very naive. 

 

[Mac Mickmanus]

9 minutes ago, Neeranam said:

I'd say it depends how the OP can sleep at night. I certainly wouldn't want to be an illegal immigrant in any country, especially one I wanted to live for many years. 

Chances are the agent is paying off senior police, so you are 'protected' but here the power changes so often that these police could be under scrutiny from the army, for example, and they won't care about the rights of the illegals.

If I did do it, I don't need to as I'm Thai, but I wouldn't post on a public forum about it, as obviously bypassing immigration requirements is illegal. 

The retirement visas from an agent are legal and legitimate and they are issued by the immigration office .

   You pay an agent and the agent takes care of all the paperwork and submits your application to the immigration office an the I.O give you a visa  

[BritTim]

48 minutes ago, nigelforbes said:

It's a little troubling however that some posters don't think there are serious penalties  for this scam/fraud/tactic

Some posters have the beliefs they do because they have actually researched the subject, and understand Thailand, rather than making assumptions out of ignorance on what surely must be true.

[Neeranam]

14 minutes ago, Mac Mickmanus said:

The retirement visas from an agent are legal and legitimate and they are issued by the immigration office .

   You pay an agent and the agent takes care of all the paperwork and submits your application to the immigration office an the I.O give you a visa  

Some are, some are not. 

Yes, if you actually go to immigration, chances are it's legal. If you don't have to go in person, it's highly illegal and you could be jailed, unlikely but you never know. 

On a moral standpoint, you are adding to Thailand's corruption problem if you use the illegal agents for your own convenience. 

Edited October 15, 2022 by Neeranam

[Mac Mickmanus]

27 minutes ago, BritTim said:

If you are worried about honest officials taking action against corrupt officials and agents who know how to navigate the law, quit worrying. Worry even less if you are one of the customers of such an agent. Honest officials will only take action if actual laws are broken, and only if you broke them.

Yes, the officers might make a complaint about irregularities to their boss , you know, the guy who has a brand new BMW in his private  parking space 

[BonMot]

3 hours ago, bkk6060 said:

Agents are big money for Immigration.  Monies that are spread throughout the entire system especially needed in these post Covid times.

If anyone has a link to a Retirement process that an agent/client handled and was then reported/arrested, please post.   There are some illegal worker agents that have been reported, but biting the hand that feeds you I seriously doubt is on immigrations agenda.

No, but seems like every few months someone posts on this forum about passports handed to agents and never returned.

 

Of course, let's put aside the whole thing is illegal and expensive. Basically, chancers.

 

And then Pattaya expats wonder why they are thought of as they are. Well, maybe not but you get the idea.

[Mac Mickmanus]

3 minutes ago, Neeranam said:

Some are, some are not. 

Yes, if you actually go to immigration, chances are it's legal. If you don't have to go in person, it's highly illegal and you could be jailed, unlikely but you never know. 

It isn't , even if you don't go to immigration in person, you can still get a legitimate legal visa .

   Sign a few blank forms, hand over the fees , have a photo taken and and go to a bank where you get 800 000 in your bank account  get a visa a few weeks later , that's all that is required  

   

[BonMot]

9 minutes ago, Neeranam said:

Some are, some are not. 

Yes, if you actually go to immigration, chances are it's legal. If you don't have to go in person, it's highly illegal and you could be jailed, unlikely but you never know. 

On a moral standpoint, you are adding to Thailand's corruption problem if you use the illegal agents for your own convenience. 

Indeed. The level of laziness I've noticed over the decades...

 

I'm sooo confused ????????

 

EDIT: It's funny or even paradoxical that this forum doesn't allow discussions about dozens of illegal activities especially working but using agents... Full steam ahead!

Edited October 15, 2022 by BonMot

[Neeranam]

2 minutes ago, BonMot said:

No, but seems like every few months someone posts on this forum about passports handed to agents and never returned.

 

Of course, let's put aside the whole thing is illegal and expensive. Basically, chancers.

 

And then Pattaya expats wonder why they are thought of as they are. Well, maybe not but you get the idea.

Ask yourself why none of these agents have a website with their prices and how you don't need things like funds in the bank?

 

 

[Neeranam]

1 minute ago, Mac Mickmanus said:

It isn't , even if you don't go to immigration in person, you can still get a legitimate legal visa .

   Sign a few blank forms, hand over the fees , have a photo taken and and go to a bank where you get 800 000 in your bank account  get a visa a few weeks later , that's all that is required  

   

Strange how none of them advertise this service. 

[Mac Mickmanus]

1 minute ago, Neeranam said:

Strange how none of them advertise this service. 

They do advertise their services , its made quite clear what they can provide  

[Neeranam]

1 minute ago, Mac Mickmanus said:

They do advertise their services , its made quite clear what they can provide  

I am 100% sure that you can't provide a link to a website that states they can guarantee you a visa/extension without meeting the financial requirements. 

 

[DrJack54]

1 minute ago, Neeranam said:

Strange how none of them advertise this service. 

Clearly advertised.

Even by a sponsor of AseanNow.

 

From another post of yours above.

 

"Some are, some are not. 

Yes, if you actually go to immigration, chances are it's legal. If you don't have to go in person, it's highly illegal and you could be jailed, unlikely but you never know".....

 

This is seriously Dreamworld. 

Post link to someone jailed using reputable agent.

 

 

[BonMot]

4 hours ago, Lemsta69 said:

enough already with the blanket statements about why people use agents. 800k is chump change for some of us but we don't feel the need to have it fester in a Thai bank account for 20+ years. 

Haha

 

If you don't need the money (sitting in a Thai bank)

 

You don't need the money.

 

But instead you hassle monthly income and all it's tedious vagaries.

Because of course the money can draw 6.5% in another overseas bank lol.

[Neeranam]

3 minutes ago, DrJack54 said:

Clearly advertised.

where?

[Mac Mickmanus]

5 minutes ago, Neeranam said:

I am 100% sure that you can't provide a link to a website that states they can guarantee you a visa/extension without meeting the financial requirements. 

 

I could , but it may be against forum rules 

[Mac Mickmanus]

2 minutes ago, Neeranam said:

where?

Do you have access to a Google search engine ?

You will find it there 

[Neeranam]

2 minutes ago, Mac Mickmanus said:

Do you have access to a Google search engine ?

You will find it there 

Nope I can't find any that say they can bypass immigration requirements, i.e no money in the bank needed, etc

They just say they can get you a visa and when they talk to you in person, they say they can help you to bypass the legal requirements as they know a bent immigration officer. 

Edited October 15, 2022 by Neeranam

[Mac Mickmanus]

8 minutes ago, Neeranam said:

I am 100% sure that you can't provide a link to a website that states they can guarantee you a visa/extension without meeting the financial requirements. 

 

"We help you even if you have no savings or any pension income. We do not judge you, we want to help you stay legally in Thailand whatever your financial circumstances are."

 

 

First Time Retiree

 

100%

Annual Renewals

 

100%

[Mac Mickmanus]

3 minutes ago, Neeranam said:

nope I can't find any that say they can bypass immigration requirements, i.e no money in the bank needed, etc

Try using some different words in the search engine 

[Lacessit]

46 minutes ago, BritTim said:

If you are worried about honest officials taking action against corrupt officials and agents who know how to navigate the law, quit worrying. Worry even less if you are one of the customers of such an agent. Honest officials will only take action if actual laws are broken, and only if you broke them.

 

Under certain very rare circumstances, you might have to worry about dishonest officials other than those gaming the system to approve legal extensions. You might also have to worry if using an agent who fails to correctly take advantage of the loopholes in the law that currently facilitate the agent assisted extensions racket.

 

I am not sure how many agent assisted extensions occur in Thailand annually. I am sure that it is many thousands at a minimum. What I can say (and this is going to encourage a troll - sorry) is that there has never been a post on this board or a credible news article suggesting foreigners are being arrested and deported because they use agents. There have been cases where agents were arrested and prosecuted, but only for fraud against their customers (who have not suffered any legal consequences).

 

Past performance does not guarantee future results, and I make no claim that using an agent to facilitate an extension is absolutely zero risk. In my judgment, the risk is extremely low, and has nothing to do with the legality of the process.

I did use a legitimate agent early on here, until I worked out using my time instead of theirs resulted in a saving of about 6000 baht.

 

I am not suggesting people do not use legitimate agents, because they do ( usually ) save time. I am suggesting people who use non-legitimate agents and their evasion devices are at risk of either fraud by the agent, or deportation. As sure as night follows day, if an agent or the IO that the agent is bribing is caught, it will be the client that gets thrown under the bus.

[Lacessit]

6 minutes ago, Neeranam said:

Nope I can't find any that say they can bypass immigration requirements, i.e no money in the bank needed, etc

They just say they can get you a visa and when they talk to you in person, they say they can help you to bypass the legal requirements as they know a bent immigration officer. 

As I understand it, agents deposit 800K in the client's account to meet the funds on deposit requirement a day prior to application, then withdraw the 800K immediately the visa or extension is approved. A compliant IO is bribed to look the other way, and in any case can always fall back on the official excuse of exercising discretion.

I used to know a guy who described his visa extension process that way, he paid 30,000 baht to an agent for each retirement extension.

[DrJack54]

36 minutes ago, Lacessit said:

I did use a legitimate agent early on here, until I worked out using my time instead of theirs resulted in a saving of about 6000 baht.

 

I am not suggesting people do not use legitimate agents, because they do ( usually ) save time. I am suggesting people who use non-legitimate agents and their evasion devices are at risk of either fraud by the agent, or deportation. As sure as night follows day, if an agent or the IO that the agent is bribing is caught, it will be the client that gets thrown under the bus.

Ridiculous.

Most agents offer various "levels of service".

That can be hand holding document organization through to obtaining (for example) extensions based on retirement without satisfying the financials. 

 

You mention deportation...

Please provide link to ONE using reputable agent. 

 

Edited October 15, 2022 by DrJack54

[DrJack54]

1 minute ago, Lacessit said:

I used to know a guy who described his visa extension process that way, he paid 30,000 baht to an agent for each retirement extension.

Again so wrong.

Ongoing extensions based on retirement would be approx 15k baht. 

Also you state.....

 

 "A compliant IO is bribed to look the other way, and in any case can always fall back on the official excuse of exercising discretion"

 

You are spitting out bar stool chat.

Clearly do not understand the options.