Why is the UK struggling more than other countries?

[Mac Mickmanus]

1 minute ago, stevenl said:

So you're quoting an Australian paper saying how happy Australia is with the trade deal with the UK and India to prove that the UK is doing well on trade deals.

Do you really think your reasoning makes sense?

The emphasis was on the UK trade deal with Australia .

[Mac Mickmanus]

On 12/8/2022 at 4:46 AM, johnnybangkok said:

Quite a few actually.

My most recent was a good friend who runs a building company in Leeds (popular topic for many on this thread). He voted Brexit to 'keep the immigrants out' not realising that many of his sub-contractors used a lot of Polish workers (stupid mistake really). He now struggles to get the work done and when it can be done, it costs him 30-40% more than before.

That is why many people voted Brexit and the UK builders who are no longer getting undercut by 30-40  % are quite content with Brexit 

[stevenl]

14 minutes ago, Mac Mickmanus said:

The emphasis was on the UK trade deal with Australia .

Doesn't help your argument much.

[Mac Mickmanus]

5 minutes ago, stevenl said:

Doesn't help your argument much.

Fair enough , I wont disagree with you and accept you opinion . but from my point of view , a Newspaper article stating that Australia is happy with its trade deal with the UK , that does  IMO back up my claim that Australia is happy with its trade deal with the UK .

   You may think differently and I wont contest your opinion 

[stevenl]

1 minute ago, Mac Mickmanus said:

Fair enough , I wont disagree with you and accept you opinion . but from my point of view , a Newspaper article stating that Australia is happy with its trade deal with the UK , that does  IMO back up my claim that Australia is happy with its trade deal with the UK .

   You may think differently and I wont contest your opinion 

Yes, Australia is happy. The topic though is not about Australia being happy with trade deals but the UK being unhappy, the latter partly due to lack of and unfavorable trade deals.

[Mac Mickmanus]

Just now, stevenl said:

Yes, Australia is happy. The topic though is not about Australia being happy with trade deals but the UK being unhappy, the latter partly due to lack of and unfavorable trade deals.

OK

Lets keep it simple :

The UK has a trade deal with Australia 

[nauseus]

2 hours ago, placeholder said:

More nonsense. All you can do is provide empty negation. So, in terms of economics,  how would you characterize the effects of the elimination of tariffs between members and  the institution of the free movement of labor? You know, economic integration How doesn't that emulate a unified economy comparable to the United States or China?

What is the nonsense here is your claim about the reason for the creation of the EU and also your claim that the EU can be compared with the US and China. Both wrong.

[Mavideol]

49 minutes ago, Mac Mickmanus said:

Fair enough , I wont disagree with you and accept you opinion . but from my point of view , a Newspaper article stating that Australia is happy with its trade deal with the UK , that does  IMO back up my claim that Australia is happy with its trade deal with the UK .

   You may think differently and I wont contest your opinion 

Australia  26,241,010 people  VS the EU 748,746, 820 ..... easy choice  555

 

https://www.worldometers.info/world-population/australia-population/

 

https://www.worldometers.info/world-population/europe-population/

Edited December 11, 2022 by Mavideol

[Mac Mickmanus]

1 minute ago, Mavideol said:

Australia  25,890,773 people  VS the EU 748,746, 820 ..... easy choice  555

 

https://www.abs.gov.au/statistics/people/population

 

https://www.worldometers.info/world-population/europe-population/

Although there are quite a few other Countries in the World as well 

[Mavideol]

Just now, Mac Mickmanus said:

Although there are quite a few other Countries in the World as well 

but...but u were talking about Australia and UK trade deal or do u have other trade deals with the world that nobody knows about

[nauseus]

2 hours ago, Bluespunk said:

That trade network was failing by the time the UK joined the EU. Without imperial preference the trade conditions no longer favoured the uk...

Rubbish. EEC tariffs were applied to UK trade with Australia and NZ when we joined in 1973, effectively killing imports from our Commonwealth. 

[Mac Mickmanus]

Just now, Mavideol said:

but...but u were talking about Australia and UK trade deal or do u have other trade deals with the world that nobody knows about

Well , YOU don't know about the 71 other trade deals the UK has signed with other Countries but the rest of the World does know about them 

[nauseus]

12 minutes ago, placeholder said:

Thank you for your reasoned refutation. 

 

Monty+Python+rent+an+argument&oq=Monty+Python+rent+an+argument&aqs=chrome..69i57j69i60.2806j0j4&client=ms-android-samsung-gj-rev1&sourceid=chrome-mobile&ie=UTF-8#

 

 

 

 

And it was less than 5 minutes.

[Bluespunk]

1 hour ago, nauseus said:

Rubbish. EEC tariffs were applied to UK trade with Australia and NZ when we joined in 1973, effectively killing imports from our Commonwealth. 

Rubbish, after WWll the whole system of imperial preference was dismantled and led to a change in economic circumstances that made commonwealth trade less favourable to the uk.

 

Learn your history.

 

https://institute.global/policy/echoes-imperial-preference

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Imperial_Preference#:~:text=Inflation%2C combined with the general,formal system of imperial preference.

Edited December 11, 2022 by Bluespunk
Detailed analysis of imperial preference link added

[vinny41]

56 minutes ago, Mavideol said:

Australia  26,241,010 people  VS the EU 748,746, 820 ..... easy choice  555

 

https://www.worldometers.info/world-population/australia-population/

 

https://www.worldometers.info/world-population/europe-population/

Your post is incorrect if you check the countries listed many of then are not part of the EU example Russia, UK, and many more

Current population of the EU is approx  446.8 million on 1 January 2022

EU population continues to decrease for a second year

https://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/web/products-eurostat-news/-/ddn-20220711-1

[Bluespunk]

1 hour ago, vinny41 said:

Your post is incorrect if you check the countries listed many of then are not part of the EU example Russia, UK, and many more

Current population of the EU is approx  446.8 million on 1 January 2022

EU population continues to decrease for a second year

https://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/web/products-eurostat-news/-/ddn-20220711-1

Which is still 17 times more than australia's population...

[vinny41]

18 minutes ago, Bluespunk said:

Which is still 17 times more than australia's population...

And according to the EU the EU population has decreased for the 2nd year

EU population continues to decrease for a second year 

[RayC]

2 hours ago, Mac Mickmanus said:

Well , YOU don't know about the 71 other trade deals the UK has signed with other Countries but the rest of the World does know about them 

That will be 3 new trade deals. Even the House of Commons library site doesn't count the roll-out deals.

 

https://commonslibrary.parliament.uk/research-briefings/cbp-9314/

 

When it comes to the possibility of future deals, the site doesn't seem confident about the prospect of those either.

Edited December 11, 2022 by RayC
Clarification

[Bluespunk]

27 minutes ago, vinny41 said:

And according to the EU the EU population has decreased for the 2nd year

EU population continues to decrease for a second year 

LOL, that is scraping the barrel.

 

17 times larger market...and much closer too.

[metisdead]

A troll post has been reported and removed.

[Mac Mickmanus]

2 hours ago, RayC said:

That will be 3 new trade deals. Even the House of Commons library site doesn't count the roll-out deals.

 

https://commonslibrary.parliament.uk/research-briefings/cbp-9314/

 

When it comes to the possibility of future deals, the site doesn't seem confident about the prospect of those either.

Yes, the UK currently has trade deals with 71 Countries and three of those are new deals and we are currently negotiating trade deals with numerous other Countries , as your link shows .

   Whether they are new deals or old deals was irrelevant  to the claim that the UK just had one trade deal only(with Autstalis)

[candide]

41 minutes ago, Mac Mickmanus said:

Yes, the UK currently has trade deals with 71 Countries and three of those are new deals and we are currently negotiating trade deals with numerous other Countries , as your link shows .

   Whether they are new deals or old deals was irrelevant  to the claim that the UK just had one trade deal only(with Autstalis)

There was already an EU FTA with Singapore implemented in 2019, and the EU has since also made an agreement with NZ. So the only deal not currently covered by equivalent EU deals is Australia (for now, It's in the pipe too).

[placeholder]

9 hours ago, BritManToo said:

And yet I can remember when all our UK beef came from Argentina, all our lamb came form New Zealand, bananas were from the West Indies and oranges from South Africa.

So I'm calling BS on this 'gravity'.

Well, if you impose restrictions on imports from elsewhere, of course that will distort the natural course of trade.

[nauseus]

9 hours ago, Bluespunk said:

Rubbish, after WWll the whole system of imperial preference was dismantled and led to a change in economic circumstances that made commonwealth trade less favourable to the uk.

 

Learn your history.

 

https://institute.global/policy/echoes-imperial-preference

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Imperial_Preference#:~:text=Inflation%2C combined with the general,formal system of imperial preference.

Your links concern periods that predate even the European Coal and Steel Community! 

 

Imperial Preference did not have to mean a hard stop to trading with The Commonwealth  but EEC Preference (protection) did. In 1973, when the UK joined, the Common Agricultural Policy was already in place, with revenues from the high levies on food imports, as well as those from common external tariffs on industrial goods boosting the EEC’s own resources. At this time the UK was at an immediate disadvantage because it imported far more from non-EC countries.

 

Tony Blair Institute globalist nonsense. No thanks.

[thaibeachlovers]

13 hours ago, nauseus said:

Rubbish. EEC tariffs were applied to UK trade with Australia and NZ when we joined in 1973, effectively killing imports from our Commonwealth. 

I remember it well, as being backstabbed by Britain. Almost destroyed NZ economically in my recollection.

Frankly, I find it hard to be sympathetic to Britain now they are getting a bit of Karma.

[Bluespunk]

52 minutes ago, nauseus said:

Imperial Preference did not have to mean a hard stop to trading with The Commonwealth

I didn’t say it had to stop.
 

I said without imperial preference commonwealth trade was no longer working economically in the uks favour. and is not a viable replacement for the eu market. 

 

It had been failing as a trade network for a long time as the links I posted explained. 

Edited December 11, 2022 by Bluespunk

[Chomper Higgot]

17 hours ago, Mac Mickmanus said:

That is why many people voted Brexit and the UK builders who are no longer getting undercut by 30-40  % are quite content with Brexit 

We need to make a distinction.

 

Building trade workers may be pleased to face less competition (30-40%??), Building companies not so as they are unable to find workers for their businesses.

 

Meanwhile, the Government bent over to get trade deals with NZ and Australia, surrendering UK economy interests for a short term political gain of being able to announce ‘trade deals signed’.

 

Both of these trade deals throw the UK’s farming industry under the bus.

 

So a few happy Brickies, the building industry struggling to find workers and a real threat to the UK’s strategically important farming industry.

You’ll find predictions of the year post Brexit trade deals to the farming industry filed under ‘Project Fear, sub folder Food Security’.

 

[Bluespunk]

40 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

We need to make a distinction.

 

Building trade workers may be pleased to face less competition (30-40%??), Building companies not so as they are unable to find workers for their businesses.

 

Meanwhile, the Government bent over to get trade deals with NZ and Australia, surrendering UK economy interests for a short term political gain of being able to announce ‘trade deals signed’.

 

Both of these trade deals throw the UK’s farming industry under the bus.

 

So a few happy Brickies, the building industry struggling to find workers and a real threat to the UK’s strategically important farming industry.

You’ll find predictions of the year post Brexit trade deals to the farming industry filed under ‘Project Fear, sub folder Food Security’.

 

AKA- the sunny uplands. 

[superal]

1 hour ago, Chomper Higgot said:

We need to make a distinction.

 

Building trade workers may be pleased to face less competition (30-40%??), Building companies not so as they are unable to find workers for their businesses.

 

Meanwhile, the Government bent over to get trade deals with NZ and Australia, surrendering UK economy interests for a short term political gain of being able to announce ‘trade deals signed’.

 

Both of these trade deals throw the UK’s farming industry under the bus.

 

So a few happy Brickies, the building industry struggling to find workers and a real threat to the UK’s strategically important farming industry.

You’ll find predictions of the year post Brexit trade deals to the farming industry filed under ‘Project Fear, sub folder Food Security’.

 

The greedy UK building companies and farmers were employing cheap foreign labour in order to maximise their profits . They had no worries about the local workforce who were out of work and had mortgages with some even losing their houses . 

Pay a decent wage and the labour will work for you . 

 Back to the main topic .

The UK is now " Work in progress " . It will take 4 or 5 years to become economically stable and not reliant on the E.U. for trade and will become a stand alone strong independent country .   

Brexit was the best event as the UK has regained its self rule . No pain is no gain and staying in the E.C. would stunt any  UK growth in the long term .  To the remainers I say , watch the E.U. go into recession next year .  With Macron trying to become the president of Europe .

[placeholder]

19 hours ago, Mac Mickmanus said:

Fair enough , I wont disagree with you and accept you opinion . but from my point of view , a Newspaper article stating that Australia is happy with its trade deal with the UK , that does  IMO back up my claim that Australia is happy with its trade deal with the UK .

   You may think differently and I wont contest your opinion 

And why is it relevant that Australia is happy with the deal? This thread is about the UK, not Australia. And as I pointed out, the former negotiator of the deal before he got sacked by Truss, says the deal is a bad one for the UK.