Why is the UK struggling more than other countries?

[Bluespunk]

4 minutes ago, puchooay said:

And I've read articles that suggest other wise.

 

Like I said, nobody really knows the extent.

The extent, no. It could well be worse than the many links I have posted pointing out the negative impact of brexit suggest. 

Edited December 29, 2022 by Bluespunk

[RayC]

19 minutes ago, Mac Mickmanus said:

That's because I hadn't posted a link previously .

I can see with my own eyes that people have cut back with electric usage , at night time its quite obvious to see if lights are on or off .

  I have been to pubs where they uses candles and not electric for light and I have asked hundreds of people whether they have cut down on their utility usage and 100 % of them said that had .

  I knew that people have cut down on their utility usage and as you questioned that , I did a websearch and posted the results and the Guardian was the first result to appear

I am not doubting what you say you have seen.

 

I can only repeat myself once again. The point - which you either cannot or refuse to grasp - is that you cannot  extrapolate your experiences and claim that they apply to the rest of the UK without supporting evidence. These experiences may - or may not - be representative of the rest of the country.

[Mac Mickmanus]

1 minute ago, RayC said:

I am not doubting what you say you have seen.

 

I can only repeat myself once again. The point - which you either cannot or refuse to grasp - is that you cannot  extrapolate your experiences and claim that they apply to the rest of the UK without supporting evidence. These experiences may - or may not - be representative of the rest of the country.

Ray, I have never claimed that my experiences apply to the rest of the Country (and I have also never claimed that Brexit hasn't had a detrimental effect on the UK's economy .) But it seems that many many people in the UK are indeed cutting back on their utility usage and the U.Ks 10-15 % decline in energy usage proves this 

   You keep making these false claims and I keep having to deny them 

[placeholder]

6 minutes ago, RayC said:

I am not doubting what you say you have seen.

 

I can only repeat myself once again. The point - which you either cannot or refuse to grasp - is that you cannot  extrapolate your experiences and claim that they apply to the rest of the UK without supporting evidence. These experiences may - or may not - be representative of the rest of the country.

Or, to put it another way:

"Any alleged factual claims must be supported by a valid link to an approved credible source."

[placeholder]

41 minutes ago, proton said:

I don't read Guardian links either, they are left wing activists, not journalists.

Which explains the vacuity of comments such as yours above.

Edited December 29, 2022 by placeholder

[Mac Mickmanus]

8 minutes ago, placeholder said:

Or, to put it another way:

"Any alleged factual claims must be supported by a valid link to an approved credible source."

But then again, when you post things like "I have noticed that people are cutting back on their energy usage" and then you get asked for proof of what you have experienced .

   Like, I don't have a link to what I have experienced , then people doubt what you say and then I have to do a web search to find a Guardian link to confirm what I said  before posters will believe what I say 

  

[Chomper Higgot]

26 minutes ago, puchooay said:

And I've read articles that suggest other wise.

 

Like I said, nobody really knows the extent.

UK businesses are very aware of how much trade they’ve lost and they are certainly aware of increased costs , increased paperwork and delays.

[RayC]

1 hour ago, Mac Mickmanus said:

Ray , that is not true .

What I have stated is the Covid and Ukraine have been the main reason for UKs current economic woes , which is quite different to your incorrect statement about what I have claimed

Mac, You have never acknowledged that Brexit has played a SIGNIFICANT part in the UK's economic woes, neither have you produced any evidence to support your claim that Covid and Ukraine have had more effect than Brexit.

[Chomper Higgot]

4 minutes ago, Mac Mickmanus said:

But then again, when you post things like "I have noticed that people are cutting back on their energy usage" and then you get asked for proof of what you have experienced .

   Like, I don't have a link to what I have experienced , then people doubt what you say and then I have to do a web search to find a Guardian link to confirm what I said  before posters will believe what I say 

  

Which is why opinions based on unsubstantiated claims don’t carry the weight of opinions based on verifiable facts.

[puchooay]

28 minutes ago, Bluespunk said:

The extent, no. It could well be worse than the many links I have posted pointing out the negative impact of brexit suggest. 

Indeed. Also, it could be better.

[RayC]

42 minutes ago, proton said:

But it was not all about economics and trade was it, it was about freedom from EU tyranny

Mods, Please introduce a 'Sigh' button.

[puchooay]

2 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

UK businesses are very aware of how much trade they’ve lost and they are certainly aware of increased costs , increased paperwork and delays.

Indeed. They are also aware that Brexit is not the only factor to have played a part.

[Mac Mickmanus]

2 minutes ago, RayC said:

Mac, You have never acknowledged that Brexit has played a SIGNIFICANT part in the UK's economic woes, neither have you produced any evidence to support your claim that Covid and Ukraine have had more effect than Brexit.

I have little interest in the effects of Brexit on the UK and thus I do not read all the reports to make a valid comment , like its a complex issue and the economy wasn't the main reason for leaving the E.U and there were other factors involved .

  Considering that other E.U Countries and other Countries in the World have similar economic  woes as the UK has (some are faring better , some are faring worse) that seems to suggest that its Covid and the Ukraine that are causing most of the issues .

   E.U Countries have an average inflation rate of 11.5 % and the UK has an inflation rate of 9.5 %

  Are you suggesting that Brexit is the cause of the E.U's high inflation rate ?

[Chomper Higgot]

9 minutes ago, puchooay said:

Indeed. They are also aware that Brexit is not the only factor to have played a part.

Brexit is the only factor increasing paperwork and creating shipping delays to the UK’s largest trading partner the EU.

[RayC]

31 minutes ago, Mac Mickmanus said:

Ray, I have never claimed that my experiences apply to the rest of the Country (and I have also never claimed that Brexit hasn't had a detrimental effect on the UK's economy .) But it seems that many many people in the UK are indeed cutting back on their utility usage and the U.Ks 10-15 % decline in energy usage proves this 

   You keep making these false claims and I keep having to deny them 

Took me a bit longer than I thought it would but here you are (from p.77):

 

"Well, I am quite sure that it wasn't just the supermarket that I went to which was full of shoppers and its the same up and down the Country in all the supermarkets  ..."

[Chomper Higgot]

3 minutes ago, Mac Mickmanus said:

I have little interest in the effects of Brexit on the UK and thus I do not read all the reports to make a valid comment , like its a complex issue and the economy wasn't the main reason for leaving the E.U and there were other factors involved .

  Considering that other E.U Countries and other Countries in the World have similar economic  woes as the UK has (some are faring better , some are faring worse) that seems to suggest that its Covid and the Ukraine that are causing most of the issues .

   E.U Countries have an average inflation rate of 11.5 % and the UK has an inflation rate of 9.5 %

  Are you suggesting that Brexit is the cause of the E.U's high inflation rate ?

And yet once again, the UK is the only G7 nation whose economy has not yet recovered to pre-pandemic levels.

 

 

[Mac Mickmanus]

2 minutes ago, RayC said:

Took me a bit longer than I thought it would but here you are (from p.77):

 

"Well, I am quite sure that it wasn't just the supermarket that I went to which was full of shoppers and its the same up and down the Country in all the supermarkets  ..."

I doubt very much that the supermarket that I went into was the ONLY supermarket in the whole of the UK that was extremely  busy over Christmas and its highly likely that every other supermarket was similarly busy  as well.

   

 

 

 

 

[RayC]

10 minutes ago, Mac Mickmanus said:

I doubt very much that the supermarket that I went into was the ONLY supermarket in the whole of the UK that was extremely  busy over Christmas and its highly likely that every other supermarket was similarly busy  as well.

   

Spot the difference:

 

"Well, I am quite sure that it wasn't just the supermarket that I went to which was full of shoppers and its the same up and down the Country in all the supermarkets ..."

[Bluespunk]

37 minutes ago, puchooay said:

Indeed. Also, it could be better.

Not as brexit stands now.

[Bluespunk]

15 minutes ago, Mac Mickmanus said:

I doubt very much that the supermarket that I went into was the ONLY supermarket in the whole of the UK that was extremely  busy over Christmas and its highly likely that every other supermarket was similarly busy  as well.

   

 

 

 

 

Prove it. 

[Mac Mickmanus]

53 minutes ago, RayC said:

I am not doubting what you say you have seen.

 

I can only repeat myself once again. The point - which you either cannot or refuse to grasp - is that you cannot  extrapolate your experiences and claim that they apply to the rest of the UK without supporting evidence. These experiences may - or may not - be representative of the rest of the country.

Let my explain .

My personal experiences do not apply to the rest of the UK because everyone has induvial experiences and they aren't all the same .

   But my experiences  may or may not be typical to everyone else and that varies .

   Like , I have cut back on my utility usage and so has nearly everyone else and my supermarket was full as were many others .

   But saying that , I was not saying that EVERY one of my experiences is typical  of everyone else in the UK (But some of them are)

   There isn't a one size fits all explanation .

I cut back on energy usage , many other people have as well

I didn't put a Christmas tree up, many other people did do that 

[Chomper Higgot]

4 minutes ago, Mac Mickmanus said:

Let my explain .

My personal experiences do not apply to the rest of the UK because everyone has induvial experiences and they aren't all the same .

   But my experiences  may or may not be typical to everyone else and that varies .

   Like , I have cut back on my utility usage and so has nearly everyone else and my supermarket was full as were many others .

   But saying that , I was not saying that EVERY one of my experiences is typical  of everyone else in the UK (But some of them are)

   There isn't a one size fits all explanation .

I cut back on energy usage , many other people have as well

I didn't put a Christmas tree up, many other people did do that 

Which is why data is better than personal opinion.

[Mac Mickmanus]

Oh look, it wasn't just MY supermarket which was busy , the whole of Wales supermarkets were busy as well 

 

Massive queues in supermarkets around Wales as shoppers pick up last minute items for Christmas Day

 

https://www.walesonline.co.uk/whats-on/shopping/massive-queues-supermarkets-around-wales-25823876

 

[puchooay]

37 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

Brexit is the only factor increasing paperwork and creating shipping delays to the UK’s largest trading partner the EU.

To coin a phrase, please provide a link to substantiate your claim. 

 

I'm sure I've read there were delays because of drivers needing Covid tests. I could be wrong and would be more than happy for you to prove me wrong.

 

 

[puchooay]

14 minutes ago, Bluespunk said:

Not as brexit stands now.

Prove it 

 

By "it" I mean your claim things cannot be better than the figures in the links. 

 

 

[placeholder]

2 minutes ago, puchooay said:

To coin a phrase, please provide a link to substantiate your claim. 

 

I'm sure I've read there were delays because of drivers needing Covid tests. I could be wrong and would be more than happy for you to prove me wrong.

 

 

Well, here's a notice about lorry drivers needing covid tests. But it's for all lorry drivers, not just those from the UK. So since all drivers are required to get a test, the UK is not suffering any more of a burden than any other country's drivers.

https://trans.info/en/covid-tests-for-hgv-drivers-border-requirements-and-test-centres-in-europe-223742

[josephbloggs]

1 hour ago, proton said:

But it was not all about economics and trade was it, it was about freedom from EU tyranny

Jeez, all I read from the Brexiteers in this thread is ridiculous cliches.  You have just regurgitated one of the most hackneyed ones of all - EU tyranny!

What, exactly, was tyrannical about the EU? I know Brexiteers don't like direct questions and prefer to throw out more cliches, but please try to answer this one. Name one thing the EU did that was tyrannical. Name a single EU rule that affected you in tyrannical way and tell me how it was imposed on you bearing in mind we were a major part of drafting said laws.  Which one was imposed against our will (we had the power of veto) and how did it affect you?

Can't wait to hear. Please don't reply with "faceless EU bureaucrats", try to give a solid answer to a simple question.

 

[Mac Mickmanus]

1 minute ago, Mac Mickmanus said:

Oh look, it wasn't just MY supermarket which was busy , the whole of Wales supermarkets were busy as well 

 

Massive queues in supermarkets around Wales as shoppers pick up last minute items for Christmas Day

 

https://www.walesonline.co.uk/whats-on/shopping/massive-queues-supermarkets-around-wales-25823876

 

Oh, here's Leicester as well , showing supermarkets were busy over Christmas .

   I was indeed correct and it WASNT just my supermarket which was busy and my personal experiences in this instance DO seem to apply to many other peoples experiences 

 

 

Live updates as Christmas rush hits supermarkets and roads across city and county

 

 

Supermarkets across Leicester and the wider county are facing a busy rush in the countdown to Christmas Day. There have already been reports of gridlocked car parks in Hinckley and long queues. Main roads into and out of Leicester are also said to be busy.

 

 

https://www.leicestermercury.co.uk/news/leicester-news/live-updates-christmas-rush-hits-7964927

 

 

 

 

[Bluespunk]

7 minutes ago, puchooay said:

Prove it 

 

By "it" I mean your claim things cannot be better than the figures in the links. 

 

 

Read the articles I’ve posted links to. 
 

edit:

 

Oh yes, where did I claim

 

”things cannot be better than the figures in the links. ”

Edited December 29, 2022 by Bluespunk

[placeholder]

1 hour ago, Mac Mickmanus said:

But then again, when you post things like "I have noticed that people are cutting back on their energy usage" and then you get asked for proof of what you have experienced .

   Like, I don't have a link to what I have experienced , then people doubt what you say and then I have to do a web search to find a Guardian link to confirm what I said  before posters will believe what I say 

  

But your alleged experiences have zero probative value. Even if your experiences are scrupulously accurate, still no probative value.  It's not like there's a lack of objectively confirmable evidence out there. Instead you prefer to make it personal.