7 minutes ago, Non Immigrant said:

If you must.

Would you like to hear about how I integrated into Thai society?

1 hour ago, Sparktrader said:

What shorts do you wear?

Probably these little minsy numbers!????????

A girl assimilated me once. We both really enjoyed it but not yet found another girl willing to try.

2 hours ago, Sparktrader said:

Yes I do. I speak Thai. I avoid farangs.

Don't see too much avoiding of farangs on ASEAN threads.

Foreigners bring diversity to thai society:

Printing shop (rather factory) near MBK employs a foreigner engineer to watch after those huge Heidelberg's presses. Seems that the whole factory assimilated into him, not backward. He's a dutch with thick accent. So even girl at reception got it from him. Cute ) 

I speak Thai well enough to communicate with Thais..

I have no desire to assimilate, it's more appropriate to say I am adjusted to Thailand. Be polite, and learn to ignore acts of egregious stupidity.

1 hour ago, smutcakes said:

Problem is he does not understand the language so he can only play with farangs.

You play with farangs? Odd choice in language.

the Thai smile ....

 

3 hours ago, Will B Good said:

Assimilation to me means not rubbing up anyone the wrong way.

you get arrested for that in USA... no wonder you are always taking shots. 

3 hours ago, Non Immigrant said:

And what does assimilation mean for you?

First of all, what it means depends very much on where you live and how many Thais and farangs are in that area.

 

When I moved to Bangkok almost 30 years ago I though one day I will be like one of them. I don't know how long it took me to realize that a) will never happen and b) I don't want it to happen.

 

I, and most of us farangs, will always be different. We can assimilate in part, i.e. speak Thai, eat Thai food, go shopping like the locals, work with the locals, etc.

But in other ways we will always be different. I.e. will never be part of the Thai hierarchy. We will (more or less) always be that interesting/crazy farang who does not fit into that hierarchy. I like that. Because it means we can integrate in part with Thais, but it is not expected from us to 100% integrate.

 

One example is that Thais are used to farangs with small brown girls from up country. Somehow farangs seem to like those girls - which most higher-class Thais would certainly ignore.

 

For me it's a mixture of: If I buy food on the fresh market, then I speak Thai and expect to be treated like the Thai people around me. And that is mostly what happens.

If I am in the office working as a manager, then I set the rules and standards which I would call international standards. Any employee has to follow the rules. That's it.

And if I am in a meeting with Thais and farangs in the office then it's a little of both cultures.

45 minutes ago, Non Immigrant said:

I think there is a difference.

 

I feel completely integrated into Thai society, considering the roles I play in their society. (i.e. I fit into their society in key several roles; I ain't a tourist).

 

However, I certainly don't think I can assimilate with their culture. I am still a farang at heart. ????

 

 

to assimilate = to become culturally like the rest of the country

to integrate = to become part of the country but retaining your own culture

 

Examples: 

A group of migrants moves to a country, starts practicing local religion (or appreciating local values), and starts speaking the language and celebrating their cultural holidays has assimilated.

A group that retains their own values and traditions, but becomes part of the community/society has integrated.

2 hours ago, Non Immigrant said:

Yeah, but to be fair when Asian go to the West, they generally don't assimilate.

 

The create a China Town or Little India.

Or not

 

2 hours ago, Non Immigrant said:

Interesting, what do you get if you make an effort?

Why would you not even try to understand the people around you in the country where you decided to live?

2 hours ago, Non Immigrant said:

I agree 

 

Not that I have ever felt like I was unwelcome, but I am sure the locals would not particularly like it if I bought a plot of land in their village, or started doing their jobs, or becamee mayor, for example.

 

They do want us to remain foreigners forever, I think.

 

But we are useful for spending money and teaching English, and otherwise tolerated.

There's other scenarios too...

 

A multi-national company posted me to Thailand, local Thai staff made me very welcome at work and socially, many spoke OK to very good English. 

 

I met a Thai lady, Dr. of Medicine, perfect English, we had one son. Her family made me very welcome, plenty of English, my FIL, wonderful pleasant well informed man taught me how to cook some easy/delicious Thai dishes, I taught him to cook several pasta dishes.

 

Son now well educated (speaks reads, writes native speaker English and Thai) in a good career, wonderful Thai wife, 3 kids all bi-lingual all doing well in school.

 

I'm happy.

 

42 minutes ago, Neeranam said:

Would you like to hear about how I integrated into Thai society?

Ok, sure.

3 hours ago, LaosLover said:

People assimilate primarily for economic advancement. For us mainly retirees, that's not a motivation.

Agreed 

..but even if you assimilate there are no benefits whatsoever.

For the Thais you will always be the 'farang' 

Thailand is a cult.

Difficult to impossible to gain admission.

 

Many foreigners I know even refuse to wai.

Learn to say Mi mee and Mi rue in a nonchalant ways and you're half way way there...

1 minute ago, VinnieK said:

Thailand is a cult.

Damn, I never thought of it like that before.

7 minutes ago, Neeranam said:

Many foreigners I know even refuse to wai.

That's pretty extreme.

 

I enjoy a good wai, even with things in my hands.

 

I have even mastered the 'one handed wai', usually reserved for distinguished gentlemen carrying briefcases.

 

I do, however, usually refuse to prostrate down to the ground at temples (or participate much at all), unless it's a dead family member.

 

Interestingly, Thai royalty gesture upwards to the sky, not bow down to the ground.

Of course ew should assimilate it is not our home country. It makes life a lot easier as well if you do try and fit in.

7 minutes ago, VinnieK said:

Agreed 

..but even if you assimilate there are no benefits whatsoever.

For the Thais you will always be the 'farang' 

Thailand is a cult.

Difficult to impossible to gain admission.

 

I believe the Chinese may have said a similar thing 50-100 years ago.

They were referred to a Jek by the Thais, which now has become offensive. 

Yet, the Chinese/Thais now always say 'farng' in a derogatory way and God forbid if you become Thai, it's the Jek that are offended and reluctant to accept us. 

Perhaps the farang here need to stop walking around saying things like ' pom bpen farang'. 

7 minutes ago, Non Immigrant said:

That's pretty extreme.

 

I enjoy a good wai, even with things in my hands.

 

I have even mastered the 'one handed wai', usually reserved for distinguished gentlemen carrying briefcases.

 

I do, however, usually refuse to prostrate down to the ground at temples (or participate much at all), unless it's a dead family member.

 

Interestingly, Thai royalty gesture upwards to the sky, not bow down to the ground.

The one-handed wai is indeed an art. 

Once a made a cultural faux pas by doing it at the gym -  a Thai guy came in and waied me when I was in the changing room putting on my shoes and I did the wai with the shoe in one hand. 

I have never done the Thai 'flip the bird yet', which is fighting  talk but have seen it once in a road rage incident. 

5 minutes ago, Neeranam said:

Many foreigners I know even refuse to wai.

Well that's just rude behavior/manners from a poor upbringing.  I wai, even when not expected or within 'protocol'.

 

Staff, children, those folks that others deem as too below their status to acknowledge.  Sorry, but tend treat everyone the same.

 

Family & friends, we all treat  each other as equals.  No need to 'assimilate' any further, as no benefit.  Doubt if they talk behind my back, as I don't theirs, or I'd ignore them completely.  Knowing them, they'd do the same.  We don't waste our time on aholes. 

 

No different here than my USA's friends & family.

2 minutes ago, Neeranam said:

I believe the Chinese may have said a similar thing 50-100 years ago.

They were referred to a Jek by the Thais, which now has become offensive. 

Yet, the Chinese/Thais now always say 'farng' in a derogatory way and God forbid if you become Thai, it's the Jek that are offended and reluctant to accept us. 

Perhaps the farang here need to stop walking around saying things like ' pom bpen farang'. 

Interesting. Didn't know that about the Chinese.

 

I do think "farang" is derogatory too. Basically, it means "whitey" ???? since they only refer to whites as farang.

 

I thought we were referring to ourselves as "farang" to 'own' the word and take the sting out of it, like the African Americans did with the 'N word.'   No? Or is that just me.

4 minutes ago, Neeranam said:

The one-handed wai is indeed an art. 

Once a made a cultural faux pas by doing it at the gym -  a Thai guy came in and waied me when I was in the changing room putting on my shoes and I did the wai with the shoe in one hand. 

I have never done the Thai 'flip the bird yet', which is fighting  talk but have seen it once in a road rage incident. 

Ah, the good old 'shoe wai'

 

What is a 'Thai flip the bird?'

1 minute ago, Non Immigrant said:

Ah, the good old 'shoe wai'

 

What is a 'Thai flip the bird?'

Taking off your shoe and raising it aggressively in the air. 

 

Throwing your shoe at someone is not wise. 

 

Showing the sole of your shoe, I mean. 

3 hours ago, proton said:

cargo shorts

I just never get the cargo shorts-hate.

 

Don't you have to bring them with you from home? I can't recall seeing them in Central Dept. Store.

Why not assimilate with girls like these? usually 10 baht a dance but not been to a ramwong concert for a long time. Music is a luktung song by Gung Sutirat. Ramwong concerts are great, by a book of dance tickets and you are away

 

 

4 hours ago, Non Immigrant said:

And what does assimilation mean for you?

Thats the big question and why I haven’t answered in the poll.

 

I do not believe a foreigner can ever truly culturally assimilate in Thailand, yet we can go a long way towards ‘feeling very normal’ here and being treated ‘very normally’.... 

 

Some of my closest (male) friends are Thai, I get on extremely well with my Thai family. I have made many friends through work here. I find talking with Thai’s very easy but also have to understand with whom I’m conversion and tailor the conversation accordingly...

 

I find far more cultural similarity than differences between Thai’s and myself (foreigners - British).

I have exactly the same complaints about Thailand that my Thai friends do. 

I have exactly the same compliments about Thailand that my Thai friends do. 

 

On this forum I have been accused of being both a Thai apologist and a Thai Basher - in both cases the accusation would stem from an underlying assumption that I have not assimilated and don’t understand the culture because my understanding is different from someone else’s. The reality is we have different experiences of Thailand in different geographical regions and when associating with those of different socio-economic status....  

...is the real Thailand with which we are expected (in this thread at least) to assimilate a rural environment or Bangkok with its modern influences  ?? ..the reality is every facet of Thailand is the ‘real Thailand’, its just different in different areas, its different from Songkhla to Chiang Rai... 

... Life here different from residential Ekammai to Moo Baans on On Nut or the Outer Ring Road (BKK)...  Just as life is different from Rural Norfolk to central London. 

 

There is also the ‘understand of the word assimilation itself’.. Contrary to what some posters would have us believe, cultural assimilation to Thailand does not mean blindly accepting everything here and walking around in some idiotic stupor as if everything is great...  we have experiences from outside of Thailand and often make observations here, they are sometimes but not always critical, these observations are primarily exactly the same as many or our more well travelled Thai friends. 

 

Perhaps it could be argued that those Thai friends who have travelled overseas more or those who have been educated overseas undergo some sort of ‘anti-assimilation’...

 

 

Cultural assimilation.... I don’t think it exists...  But, we can get along, enjoy life, discuss issues, be critical, be complimentary and primarily be treated with and treat others with a level of mutual respect which makes life comfortable...  I think thats the same for Thai’s as it is for many foreigners here.